quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I will take rattlesnake over chicken any day.

One of the nasty things about rattlesnakes is that even though the big ones will put out more venom, the babies/little ones venom is more concentrated therefore more
Also it has been proven that in some cases the bite is just that and no venom is injected.

The herpetologists I know from my days as a zoo keeper have gone to recommending, that instead of trying first aid on the spot, keep the person calm and get them to a hospital as quickly as is possible.

That sounds good in theory, but in real time cases, that would be plenty hard to try and do.

Old wives tail. Read this
http://viper.arizona.edu/faq/b...ngerous-adults-right

Or this
http://www.livingalongsidewild...venomous-snakes.html

Or this
https://patch.com/california/l...tlesnake-bite-debate

Or this

http://www.reptilesmagazine.co...ake-Myths-and-Facts/

It’s quite true that approx 30% of bites are dry- no envonamation. I had plenty of time to research these issues during my 2 days in ICU and another 2 days in a regular hospital room after my western diamondback bite- and only 1 fang hit me, although it got stuck in my Achilles’ tendon and I had to dance around and shake it off my leg. My wife drove me straight to the hospital but it still took 30 minutes to get there.

He is generally chock full of bullshit, so it figures.

I used to kill every spider and every snake.

I only kill spiders and snakes that are going to get in the house or yard. I have been bitten by a lot of spiders, generally 5 to 10 times a year most of my life.

We are losing the snake population in the south and in populated areas of the West at a pace that should not happen.

If you want to live with more endangered species

I kill every mouse or rat I see though.

For those that like the meat: How about sharing some of your best recipes.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
jdollar, did you actually read the articles you posted?
Old wives tail. Read this
http://viper.arizona.edu/faq/b...ngerous-adults-right

From the article: On a drop-for-drop basis, that means that some of the components are present in higher concentration in venom from baby snakes than from adults.

Or this
http://www.livingalongsidewild...venomous-snakes.html
This article only talks about the baby's lack ability to control the amount of venom it injects. It says nothing about the concentration, and is completely an opinion piece. It states that neither adults or babies can control the amount of venom injected. (This will be important later).

Or this
https://patch.com/california/l...tlesnake-bite-debate

From the article: The baby rattler’s venom contains more neurotoxin than the adult’s, because reptiles react differently to adult rattlesnake venom.

Or this

http://www.reptilesmagazine.co...ake-Myths-and-Facts/

From the article: So if the venom toxicity of a young snake is not as potent as an adult, and the total venom yield of a juvenile is not nearly as great as an adult’s, what part of this myth is one-third true? The answer lies in the venomous snake’s experience level. Adults are veterans of life. They have successfully avoided or driven back predators and attackers, and they have full control over all muscular functions. Adults recognize the need to conserve their precious venom. It takes time to produce it, and a snake that empties its venom reserves in an attacker has nothing left to subdue prey.

So which of your obviously always true internet sources is correct? Can the snakes really reserve venom or not? I guess the "experts" even disagree. Again who does one believe? See the answer to the same question above.

Read each article in its entirety. They all state that, yes, the baby venom may be more toxic millimeter for milliliter but the actual bite is not as dangerous. It’s essentially a matter of volume delivered. A google search turned up these and other references and they all have the same conclusion. I don’t think the Uni of Arizona or Reptile Magazine have an ax to grind, they simply answered the question posed- are baby rattlers more dangerous than adults? The answer is apparently no.

I had snake and spider bite training by snake bite Dr I think from Loma Linda (think he had a snake bite Tv show ) that said baby snake venom is no different than a full grown snake. He also said if you are bitten it's best to get medical attention as soon as possible even if that meant running as opposed to sitting and waiting for medical attention to get to you. Assuming it would take longer to get med attention by waiting.

I have grandkids

All poisonous snakes are "in-danger" near my property

Of course since it is against the law to kill snakes in Missouri they all seem to die of natural causes.

Ted, mine get lead poisoning.

I figure a hoe is a natural cause but I have also used limbs and big rocks. They are really natural. To those who say leave em alone, maybe they would like to have paid my $75,000 hospital bill ( I was bit in my garage) or my total vet bills of over $20,000 for my 4 dogs that got nailed around my house and barn. In my worst year I killed 37 around the house. Leave em alone indeed!!!!

My bill was $99,000. I Must have used more anti venom.

Most of the folks that make the comments about leaving the snakes alone, do not have to deal with them on a daily or weekly basis or been around a person or animal that has been bitten.

quote:

Originally posted by samir:
My bill was $99,000. I Must have used more anti venom.

I got eighteen vials @ 3500/vial. Luckily no surgery. The only good rattlesnake is a very dead one! As an aside, I never killed the king or gopher snakes I found on the property. I caught them, brought them back to the house and released them for rodent and rattler control.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by samir:
My bill was $99,000. I Must have used more anti venom.

I got eighteen vials @ 3500/vial. Luckily no surgery. The only good rattlesnake is a very dead one! As an aside, I never killed the king or gopher snakes I found on the property. I caught them, brought them back to the house
and released them for rodent and rattler control.

Big price difference. I had 9 vials at around $9000 a vial. They must have given me the good stuff

Having practiced medicine in both San Diego and Fresno( where my bite occurred) I can definitely say San Diego costs more for everything!!

Bob:

What I did, was kill it, put it on ice right away, came home and half hour later skinned and cut it up in 2" lengths and let it drain over night. Then just dipped it in cornmeal breading and boiled in oil. Had a big platter piled to the rim and peaked to a point. Ate it all alone. Way too much!
Funny thing, pot was full of fresh oil. Soon as it cooled the wife poured it out!

Rancher friend about 30 miles from the hosp. Was running his sprinkler at night. Went out barefoot and got nailed on the lawn. Snake didn't rattle til after it hit him in the ankle. Drove himself in. Spent 3 weeks in the hosp. I saw him two days after he got home. Cowboy boot was split all the way so he could wear them. I have no clue the cost on any of these bites. All three I know of (ex) and him were over 25 miles from the hosp.

Randall: How do you and Laura fix 'em?

George

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Most of the folks that make the comments about leaving the snakes alone, do not have to deal with them on a daily or weekly basis or been around a person or animal that has been bitten.

Lived in the Mojave Desert for a long time. Saw snakes regularly. Never killed one that wasn't in the back yard.

The Mojave Green is the most poisonous snake in North America, had to live with those little green bastards.

George we used to fix them like you described, then a couple of years back I started grilling them over mesquite, same with frog legs and we like both better than when fried.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Most of the folks that make the comments about leaving the snakes alone, do not have to deal with them on a daily or weekly basis or been around a person or animal that has been bitten.

Lived in the Mojave Desert for a long time. Saw snakes regularly. Never killed one that wasn't in the back yard.

The Mojave Green is the most poisonous snake in North America, had to live with those little green bastards.

Same here. Bunch of diamondbacks in the Chihuahuan Desert. Like I said above, when they intrude into my element, where kids and dogs play and livestock does its thing, they're in danger. However, when I'm out in theirs, I see no reason to kill them.

Arizonans are kinder, gentler people than Texans.

Most Texans, or at least all the ones I know, have a basic philosophy concerning coyotes/rattlesnakes and to a lesser extent feral hogs.

If it is alive it needs to be dead!

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Arizonans are kinder, gentler people than Texans.

Most Texans, or at least all the ones I know, have a basic philosophy concerning coyotes/rattlesnakes and to a lesser extent feral hogs.

If it is alive it needs to be dead!

Amen to that. If it’s out in your pasture today, tomorrow it may well be in your yard or barn. It’s easy to say live and let live until you get hit or have to pay a huge vet bill.

They kill rats and mice, I don't want them in my yard beyond that they are welcome to do snake stuff where they live.

Rats and mice make you sick. I trap mice and rats year round.

We don't seem to have a problem with rats or mice here in Germany. Not sure if it is because of where we live or I am lucky.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Arizonans are kinder, gentler people than Texans.

Most Texans, or at least all the ones I know, have a basic philosophy concerning coyotes/rattlesnakes and to a lesser extent feral hogs.

If it is alive it needs to be dead!

Right on.

I only kill the poisonous ones as well. I let the black snakes, ring necks, garter and water snakes do as they will.

Yup, same here.

I stepped off the front porch at the ranch a couple of weeks back. There was a rather large oak snake just a few feet away. I let it go, straight up the nearest tree actually. My wife wanted to know why I didn't hammer it. I gave the same answer about it eating vermin.

quote:

only kill the poisonous ones as well. I let the black snakes, ring necks, garter and water snakes do as they will.

I don't bother any snakes other than buzztails and copperheads. Lora and I have had a couple of pet snakes.

Bull snakes and Prairie Racers I do everything I can to keep from hurting one, they both kill and eat rattlers.

Buzztails and Copperheads are a whole different matter!

First time I saw a Blue Indigo snake in south west Texas I was in snake slaying mode until my friends stopped me. They kill and eat rattlesnakes, so they are good to go.

That said, they tend to be big bastards at 6-7 feet, and they keep their head off the ground like a cobra. Freaked me out the first time.

I am not a snake lover, but also don't see a need to kill the ones that don't need it.

We get some big black snakes occasionally in my trees, and they are welcome to keep the vermin under control.

Jeremy

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I had just learned that my wife has to have major surgery.

Hey Larry-

Prayers for your wife. I wish her a speedy recovery.

P.S. She's an orthopedic surgeon herself, correct?

This conversation is way too complicated. For crying out loud, we're not talking about elapids, or any aggressive subspecies thereof, or any of the other truly DEADLY snakes typically found in Asia or Africa.

I just returned from an Argentina bird hunt. We had unseasonably warm weather and two of our party came across Bothrops Alternatus, highly venomous vipers. They killed the one found near the house with a shovel and let go the other one found in the field.

Got a rattlesnake? It all depends. Take stock of your surroundings. Really?

In most cases, a shovel or a hoe, or even a broom will work just fine. Drive over them if you decide you really want to.

Otherwise, try and hold your water, less you embarrass yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by Kenati:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I had just learned that my wife has to have major surgery.

Hey Larry-

Prayers for your wife. I wish her a speedy recovery.

P.S. She's an orthopedic surgeon herself, correct?

Thanks.

Yes, orthopedic hand surgeon.

I have caught them, relocated them, and killed them. I have used a stick to pin them and a knife far more often than any method. Lived in NM 12 years. Dealt with lots of rattlers. They are not as scary as water moccasins. Mocs are territorial and may come after you. Having shot competitively for decades I gave up using shot from pistols years ago. If I can cut cards on end at 7 yards with a 9mm or 45 than I can hit a snakes head. Focus hard on the front sight and a smooth gentle trigger squeeze. It works. Sticks and knives are just as easy and cheaper but not always practical in all situations.

From my experiences, all the water snakes are more aggressive than the rattlers and copperheads.

The only exceptions I have noticed are Diamond Backs around 2&1/2 to 3 feet long, and they often seem to have an attitude.

quote:

Originally posted by Eagle Dad:
I have caught them, relocated them, and killed them. I have used a stick to pin them and a knife far more often than any method. Lived in NM 12 years. Dealt with lots of rattlers. They are not as scary as water moccasins. Mocs are territorial and may come after you. Having shot competitively for decades I gave up using shot from pistols years ago. If I can cut cards on end at 7 yards with a 9mm or 45 than I can hit a snakes head. Focus hard on the front sight and a smooth gentle trigger squeeze. It works. Sticks and knives are just as easy and cheaper but not always practical in all situations.

I agree Eagle Dad; I head shoot mine with a Ruger Single Six. Works well.

FYI

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/w...ite-victims-50498437

It will be interesting to see how his tests work out.

I used to work at a place in the desert making rocket motors. The big boss didn't want us killing any critters. We had a diamond back that kept coming into the building. The foreman painted it red and left it in the middle of the bare field. Thirty minutes later we saw a red tail hawk on top of a saguaro eating a bright red snake.
We didn't kill it!

M

I just picked up my new S&W The Governor on Saturday. I have yet to shoot it. I got a box of 2.5 inch #4's which was all they had. I later found a box of #8's elsewhere.

I think part of the problem with rat shot is that the pellets are so small. I think the size is #12 or something like that.

We still have an astounding amount of water around locally post hurricane Irma. I continue to see more snakes than normal. I often do my cardio in the dark on the golf course. I have to admit that I think about the snakes more often now. I have run over a couple with my car. In the dark on the golf course is a different story. Of course,if I shot one, I would be in real trouble.

the house. Leave em alone indeed!!!![/quote]

quote:

my total vet bills of over $20,000 for my 4 dogs

I never owned a dog worth spending that kind of money on.

I have own some really great dogs. But there are a lot of dogs out there.

I leave all snakes alone that I see when out hunting or fishing, unless they are anywhere near camp or blind or if they act at all aggressive.

Near my home or where I walk my yellow lab, I kill every one I see. Anywhere near my home is within a couple miles. I usually kill them with a big rock or shovel, though I did shoot one in my neighbors driveway once with a .410. They called me around midnight to come kill a rattler in their driveway, so I grabbed a hoe and went over wearing flip-flops. Once I saw how big the rattler was, I said 'F*ck the hoe' and went to get the shotgun. Though I live in a subdivision, nobody seemed to mind me shooting it.

Tonight, I killed about a 3' rattler with the Silverado, that worked really well, especially since I ran over it twice, just to be sure.

Regarding dogs, my lab gets a rattlesnake vaccination annually, as well as aversion training. I hope I never need to find out if it's money well spent.

I have never had good luck with rat shot from a 22 or 38 pistol on rats or rattle snakes, and don't need to get closer..Id recommend a .410 with no. 7 shot for rattlers..

Ive killed every rattler Ive run across for the last 82 plus years and will continue to do so..They have killed my horses and my dogs, and had some close calls with myself and my kids on our Big Bend area ranches in Texas. Ive yet to damage the population much.

Ive seen rattlers killed my the Mexicans cowboys that worked for me, they pull the rope loop down to a knot and get it swinging and hit the snake in the head, its a very effective way to kill a snake..

Ive seen ranchers take a rifle or pistol and stand just out of stricking distants and move the gun in a small circle that the snake mezmorizes on and squeeze the trigger and it blows the snakes head off..Ive tried both on a couple of occasions and it works if done right. Doesn't take long to get it down pat, trigger pull is important as you circle the barrel..Most rattlers Ive killed have been with rocks, a hoe, or whatever was handy..I liked having a few bull snakes around the house to take care of local rattlers..Also my dogs and a big black wild cat that lived in the barn killed rattle snakes, and my bull snakes sooner or later..

I had one dog that hated snakes of any kind,and had been bitten so many times he became immune, just get sick swell up pretty good for a day or two and be fine shortly thereafter..

If your dog or horse gets bit run a water hose into his nostrils on a horse and something smaller on a dog. with animals its suffocation from the swelling closing the nostrils, not the poison, especially with horses that are larger. Animals breath through their nose, and mostly get bit in the face, horses get bit grazing and dogs get bit being stupid, but if they live dogs get the hang of killing a snake, as does a coyote, bobcat, weasel, Road Runner, or whatever else might be capable of such...

Javalina and domestic or wild hogs are immune as their blood vessels run deep in the body. M boys and I heard and witnessed a cave in on the side of a mountain and it was apparently a rattlesnake den and it was cold and the snakes were sluggish, a herd of Javalina were eating them one at a time standing in the middle of the snakes and getting bite while they feasted. They killed and ate most or part of every snake. Wished I had a camera for that.

About 'birdshot' .22 cartridges

Several years ago I front-brained on .22 birdshot shooting, not for shooting snakes but for pass shooting flying insects (dragonflies). I pattenered the stuff in my garage at distances ranging 7-21 feet using several different types and firearms. I even did penetration tests! We bought cases of the stuff back when it was 3-4 dollars a box (last I checked it was nearly triple that).

What I learned/observed:

-Smoothbores pattern much better than rifled .22's

-Crimped shot .22 cartridges are much better than CCI capsule

-The Remington 'Ratshot' (with slightly heavier shot) penetrated slightly better but patterend poorly.

IMHO, any .22 shot cartridges are marginal for snakes/chipmunks/toads etc beyond 8 feet. 3-6 feet is okay. It will drop a dragonfly at 20 feet but that ain't saying much.

My final thoughts: having shot several thousand .22 shot cartridges through several different firearms, I pack a Taurus Judge (alloy) with .410 shotshells when afield where dangerous snakes are an issue.

quote:

Smoothbores pattern much better than rifled .22's

I found that my Marlin 22 with its micro grooved rifling. Pattern it really well.

Enough to kill squirrels 25 feet away or closer.

I had a infestation in my garage between traps and the marlin I killed dozens.

I got my new S&w Governor last week. I took it to the ranch where of course I don't see a thing.

Yesterday, I switched locations to a club where I am a member. The wife and I headed to town to pick up a couple of things. I grab my 380 which I always carry. I also grabbed a 40 cal Glock which I stick in the center console.

We get our things and start heading back. I notice something. Damn it, another rattler. I don't have my Governor! I got the Glock and wrecked his day. This one was only about 4 feet long.

Damn it I wish I had the other pistol!