Does anyone have much experience shooting rattlers, particularly large ones with rat shot?

I am at my ranch. I was coming home from dinner when I spied a whopper eastern diamondback. I have a cheap 22 magnum revolver in the truck loaded with CCI rat shot. I got out and shot the snake. He was none too happy. I definitely hit him but I was not impressed at all with the result. Granted this was a big snake, about 5 and a half feet long but I expected more.

Most of the snakes I dispatch with this pistol are moccasins a couple of feet long. This seems to work pretty well on the smaller snakes. On old big boy, it sucked.

I am now thinking about a .410 revolver.

Any thoughts?

Larry:
It's almost impossible to hit 'em in the head. Iv'e been told with a rifle you can stick it in their face and get them to following the muzzle back n forth then fire and do it.
THe one's I've shot with a pistol have been body shots that just make 'em mad and strike.

I never tried shot, but, worker at the range carried .38 shot. One day about the biggest rattler Iv'e seen out here was handy. I told Don to make him coil and I'd get a shovel. Shortly he was popping shot at it. Like always before, he just shot the body nearly in half. I killed it with a shovel.
And brought it home to eat. Damned good eating too. I'd cut about 5" off the head and 3" of the tail and it was still 54" long. Monster for out here.

That's about all I can tell you. Iv'e killed a whole bunch of 'em though, nearly always with a
shovel.

Trouble is with the long one's they can strike 3/4's of their length and shot needs to be up close to be very effective. That's a whole lot closer than I want to get.

George

I've killed a truck load of snakes with rat shot and have seen many more killed with it. It does work. When my family owned a crawfish farm we shot snakes all the time with it. Damn near didn't have to aim!

Since rat shot is twice the price of normal 22 rounds, I've gone back to using hollow points and solids.

I've had bad luck with Rat shot.

Tried a good bit of it years back...very poor pattern, even at a few feet. Shot some into a mud bank to see the shot and it wasn't tight enough to do anything beyond about 8 inches from the muzzle.

I looked into it and it said that a rifled barrel causes shot to spin outward and open up faster.

I heard the larger caliber ones were better...44 mag and similar, but I never tried them.

Best thing for snakes is a 20Ga full of 7.5s. It's the only think that works every single time.

For inside the house a 20 gauge loaded with crushed macaroni works wonders. Outside, would stick with a smooth bore with 7 1/2. Have seen a few folks with a Taurus Judge with the 3" chamber who say it works very well too - no reason it shouldn't.

I have used a 4 inch Model 629 S&W 44 mag and it will kill a snake from about 6 feet with one shot using the CCI #9 loads. Shot an empty quart motor oil container at 15 feet with the same load and had only 4 pellets hit the container. My neighbor uses the CCI shot loads in a 4 inch 9mm and he shoots his a few times. Close is best with the pistol shotshell loads, bigger caliber the better.

Shot one today with a high brass 12 gauge #5 shot, it worked real good.

I shot a couple with 9mm shot shells range just a few feet killed them.

The biggest a 5 footer in TX. was shot with 315gr 44mag. I can tell you at 15 feet a WFN at 1300 fps hitting a 5 foot snake on the tip of nose has plenty of stopping power.

Spilt his head in half.

The problem is twofold. First, I want to be able to carry it around easily. This is necessary when I am working. For example , doing work on the tractor . Second is the issue of shooting at night. This makes sites more difficult to see.

I am thinking of a .410 revolver. The 2 1/2 inch shells with 7 1/2 shot. That has to be better.

Larry, go with the S&W Governor if you go the .410 revolver route. I've killed but one rattler with the CCI .22 LR shot load. I got within about five feet and aimed for the head with a cheap Heritage Rough Rider sixgun. He didn't even quiver.

My go to for the ranches I worked on in MT was .357 mag shot shells with #9 shot from CCI. At 4 feet away those would blow smaller 3 foot snakes in half, or take the head mostly off. This was out of a 4" Colt Trooper. Did fine for snakes up to 5 foot which is about as big as a prairie rattler will get. You did have to aim. The pattern at 4 feet was only 3-4" big.

Jeremy

My Dad shoots 3-5 ft Western Diamondbacks all the time with his .22 LR pistol and CCI ratshot. He says it never fails.

If you pattern .410's out of a pistol you'll find it poor. #9 shot is the best.

In my experiments... .44 mag CCI ratshot patterned much better out of a pistol than 2 1/2" .410 shells but #9 shot patterns best.

I've carried a Taurus Judge with a 4" barrel. I load the 2 1/2 inch .410 shotshell with 7 1/2 shot. No complaints from me... maybe the snakes would complain but they're not around anymore to lodge a protest.

Handles possums, coons and skunks as well.

The 22 won't do much as you have experienced. I patterned some 38 shot loads and posted the results here a couple of years ago. Would repost but that was with Photobucket. Anyway, about 5 ft is the effective range with 38 shot loads. Past that and the pattern spreads out too much to have any effect. If you want to carry an nice little S&W Airweight is what stays in my pocket.

I have shot several eastern diamondbacks using .38 Special shot shells. I load my own using Speer capsules and number #6 shot. I carry two shot shells and four wadcutters in my revolver. So far it has taken only one shot per snake.

If any one wants to load 44 shot shells I have a couple boxes of Speer shot capsules I am willing to part with just pm me.

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:
My go to for the ranches I worked on in MT was .357 mag shot shells with #9 shot from CCI. At 4 feet away those would blow smaller 3 foot snakes in half, or take the head mostly off. This was out of a 4" Colt Trooper. Did fine for snakes up to 5 foot which is about as big as a prairie rattler will get. You did have to aim. The pattern at 4 feet was only 3-4" big.

Jeremy

I would not have wanted to get 4'feet away from that bad boy last night. One would be getting awfully close to the danger zone.

Let me clarify the situation and show my own stupidity.

It was pitch black dark. I was tired. Very tired. I was also distracted. I had just learned that my wife has to have major surgery.

I came around the corner and saw the snake in the lights of my truck (a Raptor). I also turned on the fog lights. I could see well.

I shot him 7 times. I could see that I was hitting him. He was clearly hurt but not hurt enough to make me happy. I jumped in my Raptor and ran his ass over.

I had a 40 cal Glock loaded with 2 extra magazines. I could have grabbed that and ruined his day. I also has this Kel-Tec folding rifle that is also in 40 cal.

My dumb ass grabbed the 22 magnum.

No one way ever accused me of being smart.

quote:

I jumped in my Raptor and ran his ass over.

It would have been much easier just do to that first.

I am sure it wouldn't have mattered to the snake.

I know this ranks me in a distinct minority, but I don't kill rattlesnakes unless they are very close to our home or threatening a dog, etc.

I think they are beautiful and they kill rats and other vermin.

One memorable time near my ranch gate, I saw one about 5 feet long that must have just shed it's hide. It GLOWED, really beautiful.

My advice, let them go.

My little ranch in CA was overrun with rattlers. In an average year, I killed 23-24 right around the house , in the garage, and in the barn. I tried .22 rat shot and it sucked. Beyond 3 feet, you might as well piss on them. I never bothered with larger caliber shot but maybe it would work better. I just kept a hoe in the garage and barn. 100% effective and no ricochet Like gato, I let em go- right straight to hell.....

The CCI .38/.357 snake loads have worked well for me - 1 shot from a 6" Colt Python = dead snake. I would use my 2 1/2" if not in uniform, but any .38spl will work.

I use my .22 with LR shells night or day, the big thing is to remain calm and just shoot the sucker.

I kill everyone I see, and if they are big enough, they get a free invite for supper as the main dish.

I know quite a few folks out here that prefer a square point long handle shovel or a long handle garden hoe. Either one works really well.

.44 special snakeshot work much better. Mike ventrino did an article about in American Handgunner.

I have used .45 acp occasionally in my glock 21 and it cycles the slide fine.

My mother uses the 22 in her little derringer all the time for them when she is mowing and can't run them over. I have used both the 38 from my model 15 and 410 from my judge. They both worked with one shot. I usually carry the Judge when on the back 36 acres.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
My mother uses the 22 in her little derringer all the time for them when she is mowing and can't run them over. I have used both the 38 from my model 15 and 410 from my judge. They both worked with one shot. I usually carry the Judge when on the back 36 acres.

My mother was a fan of the Ruger Single Six with the crimped shot shells. Mostly diamondbacks, but I think she shot everything with no legs.

Had a neighbor who used a 30-06 with blanks, stick barrel in their face and boom.

M

A good post with lots of response from people with real experience.
As a kid, I shot moccasins and rattlers in the head with BBs from my Daisy pump. Then it was on to a .22 rifle and 20 ga double(still in the head). Now, I usually use snake shot from my 6" M19 .357 or 4inch .44 mag, but anything handy will do.

What has been said about the larger snakes is true, it can take more than one load of snake shot to kill one. Heavy rains bring the snakes out of the bottoms into our yard and barn and chicken yard, so they must be dispatched. The last copperhead I had to shoot would have died anyway due to the ceramic egg kit had swallowed.

One thing I can say, from experience twice in knee high grass. Stepping about mid body on a 4 foot plus buzz tail has the effects of making one jump high/talk loud/ shoot fast and straight Thanking God for several minutes.

I had shot a dove and it fell into a good sized Lote bush. I could see the trail of feathers it left as it fell thru the bush and as I parted them looking for the bird I saw it laying on the ground and as I started to reach for it I saw the rattler move a little. The dove was laying dead less than a foot from the snake.

The snake was rattling for all it was worth, but because of the rain his rattles were not making any noise. Needless to say I introduced him to a ounce load of 7&1/2's from about 3 feet.

You all hit on one of the issues. Post hurricane Irma, we have a hell of a lot of water. My wife is complaining about the mosquitoes. I laugh at her and tell her to watch for snakes. I live on a golf course. We have a marked increase in snake sightings post Irma.

The ranch is pretty bad but not as bad as home. They are 150 miles apart by road.

It was raining this morning. I stayed in. Left later to do some work. I had a piece of paper about the size of 2 business cards end to end. I shot it at 10 feet with the 22 mag and the rat shot. I have to tell you the pattern was damn impressive. It was uniform and covered the entire paper.

I shot an empty water bottle at 15 feet. There were 21 pellets inside the bottle.

This really got me thinking. I am 100% sure I hit the snake. Hell, I could see it. Given this pattern, I am inclined to think the 22 magnum with rat shot simply does not have the power on a really big snake like the one I encountered. I keep reliving the encounter. He is not getting any smaller and I keep seeing a big old head. Emphasis on big.

I've killed hundreds of the freaking things out here. I hate 'em, and kill every one I see. You'll never thin them out IME. I kill them with whatever I have handy.....22's, shotguns, rakes, rocks, whatever......



My buddy is 6'2".....

Damn, that booger would feed the whole family for two weeks. Hey Randall, you drooling for chicken right now?? Ha! Fine eats imo.
I've never seen one that big bodied. Only two that long. Larry, how does this one compare to yours??

I stepped on one once too. Never knew I could jump that far! Buddy Gary stepped in the middle of one and it hammered on the side of his boot.
First wife stepped in the middle of a big one too and got nailed on the big toe. Her second time in 9 months. First time was one 6" long wrapped around a squash she was trying to pick. Hit her ring finger, fang holes only 1/4" apart. Nearly died from that first one. The big one hit one fang in the toe, other into the rubber on the thongs she had on. Over night in the hosp that time. Very lucky that time as her Dad and the vet were close doctoring a cow. Vet worked on her with his kit while Bob drove the 25 miles to the hosp. Oh man the nightmares she had for years though!!

George

I will take rattlesnake over chicken any day.

One of the nasty things about rattlesnakes is that even though the big ones will put out more venom, the babies/little ones venom is more concentrated therefore more deadly.

Also it has been proven that in some cases the bite is just that and no venom is injected.

The herpetologists I know from my days as a zoo keeper have gone to recommending, that instead of trying first aid on the spot, keep the person calm and get them to a hospital as quickly as is possible.

That sounds good in theory, but in real time cases, that would be plenty hard to try and do.

The only ones I kill are those unfortunate enough to end up in the back yard or chicken pens where the kids are likely to stumble upon them in the dark. For those I just use a shovel. Any I come across in the desert away from civilization get a pass.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I will take rattlesnake over chicken any day.

One of the nasty things about rattlesnakes is that even though the big ones will put out more venom, the babies/little ones venom is more concentrated therefore more
Also it has been proven that in some cases the bite is just that and no venom is injected.

The herpetologists I know from my days as a zoo keeper have gone to recommending, that instead of trying first aid on the spot, keep the person calm and get them to a hospital as quickly as is possible.

That sounds good in theory, but in real time cases, that would be plenty hard to try and do.

Old wives tail. Read this
http://viper.arizona.edu/faq/b...ngerous-adults-right

Or this
http://www.livingalongsidewild...venomous-snakes.html

Or this
https://patch.com/california/l...tlesnake-bite-debate

Or this

http://www.reptilesmagazine.co...ake-Myths-and-Facts/

It’s quite true that approx 30% of bites are dry- no envonamation. I had plenty of time to research these issues during my 2 days in ICU and another 2 days in a regular hospital room after my western diamondback bite- and only 1 fang hit me, although it got stuck in my Achilles’ tendon and I had to dance around and shake it off my leg. My wife drove me straight to the hospital but it still took 30 minutes to get there.

jdollar, did you actually read the articles you posted?
Old wives tail. Read this
http://viper.arizona.edu/faq/b...ngerous-adults-right

From the article: On a drop-for-drop basis, that means that some of the components are present in higher concentration in venom from baby snakes than from adults.

Or this
http://www.livingalongsidewild...venomous-snakes.html
This article only talks about the baby's lack ability to control the amount of venom it injects. It says nothing about the concentration, and is completely an opinion piece. It states that neither adults or babies can control the amount of venom injected. (This will be important later).

Or this
https://patch.com/california/l...tlesnake-bite-debate

From the article: The baby rattler’s venom contains more neurotoxin than the adult’s, because reptiles react differently to adult rattlesnake venom.

Or this

http://www.reptilesmagazine.co...ake-Myths-and-Facts/

From the article: So if the venom toxicity of a young snake is not as potent as an adult, and the total venom yield of a juvenile is not nearly as great as an adult’s, what part of this myth is one-third true? The answer lies in the venomous snake’s experience level. Adults are veterans of life. They have successfully avoided or driven back predators and attackers, and they have full control over all muscular functions. Adults recognize the need to conserve their precious venom. It takes time to produce it, and a snake that empties its venom reserves in an attacker has nothing left to subdue prey.

So which of your obviously always true internet sources is correct? Can the snakes really reserve venom or not? I guess the "experts" even disagree. Again who does one believe? See the answer to the same question above.

My wife is a hand surgeon. She once described in great detail the medical procedure she had to perform when someone was bitten by a moccasin on the hand. It did not sound like a good time.

If I had to describe it, I would say the swelling was so bad that the skins was going to break open.

I never want to experience it.

Larry, hence the reason I carry the .410 all the time on my land. I own, what the neighbors lovingly refer to as "snake lake". The moccasin's just love it, and the wet land around it.

The .410 round from the Judge will also kill an Armadillo if you get close enough to it. Yes, we have them in Missouri now, and Kansas.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
jdollar, did you actually read the articles you posted?
Old wives tail. Read this
http://viper.arizona.edu/faq/b...ngerous-adults-right

From the article: On a drop-for-drop basis, that means that some of the components are present in higher concentration in venom from baby snakes than from adults.

Or this
http://www.livingalongsidewild...venomous-snakes.html
This article only talks about the baby's lack ability to control the amount of venom it injects. It says nothing about the concentration, and is completely an opinion piece. It states that neither adults or babies can control the amount of venom injected. (This will be important later).

Or this
https://patch.com/california/l...tlesnake-bite-debate

From the article: The baby rattler’s venom contains more neurotoxin than the adult’s, because reptiles react differently to adult rattlesnake venom.

Or this

http://www.reptilesmagazine.co...ake-Myths-and-Facts/

From the article: So if the venom toxicity of a young snake is not as potent as an adult, and the total venom yield of a juvenile is not nearly as great as an adult’s, what part of this myth is one-third true? The answer lies in the venomous snake’s experience level. Adults are veterans of life. They have successfully avoided or driven back predators and attackers, and they have full control over all muscular functions. Adults recognize the need to conserve their precious venom. It takes time to produce it, and a snake that empties its venom reserves in an attacker has nothing left to subdue prey.

So which of your obviously always true internet sources is correct? Can the snakes really reserve venom or not? I guess the "experts" even disagree. Again who does one believe? See the answer to the same question above.

Read each article in its entirety. They all state that, yes, the baby venom may be more toxic millimeter for milliliter but the actual bite is not as dangerous. It’s essentially a matter of volume delivered. A google search turned up these and other references and they all have the same conclusion. I don’t think the Uni of Arizona or Reptile Magazine have an ax to grind, they simply answered the question posed- are baby rattlers more dangerous than adults? The answer is apparently no.

By the end of the week, I will have one of the S&W revolvers in 410 to carry while up there. I already took my dad's old single shot 410 he had when he was a boy to leave in the camp for a snake gun.

quote:

Old wives tail. Read this

I might agree if I had not spent 25 years working around some of the best Professional herpetologists in America.

It really is not worth arguing about, a bite from ANY venomous snake is a serious matter and folks that spend any time in the outdoors will at some point have a run in with a venomous snake.