A friend just sent me photos of a Whitetail doe with a nice rack (of antlers.)

The deer was taken on the 4-K ranch in Brady, TX.

http://www.4klandandcattle.com/gallery.html#

I have heard of it before but never with really decent set of antlers.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
I have heard of it before but never with really decent set of antlers.

+1

how did she know to rub them clean?
is this the result of selective breeding and genetic tamering some of us have been worried about?

In short, no. Read the following:

Field Notes: Antlered Does
During the 2002 deer-hunting season, Tom Schneider of Willmar shot a white-tailed deer with a polished 13-point rack. Nothing strange about that. But something was unusual: The deer, by all appearances, was a doe, with female genitalia, an udder, and teats.

Why do some does grow antlers? How common are they? Are they really does? These are some of the questions hunters ask as deer such as Schneider's trophy focus attention on these unusual creatures. With the exception of caribou, females of the deer family do not normally grow antlers. Yet reports of antlered female white-tailed, black-tailed, and mule deer go back more than a century. Most of these have velvet-covered pedicels or small spikes with some branching, and can produce fawns. The scientific literature also contains reports of a few deer that appeared to be females except they had hard, polished antlers.

The physiological process of antler development helps to explain how antlers can develop in does. White-tailed deer antlers are made of bone. They grow from pedicels ("buttons") on the skull. Annual antler growth begins in mid-March to April, triggered by the interaction of increasing daylight, testosterone, and the hormone prolactin. During early development, the antlers are composed of blood vessels, nerves, and a hairy skin called velvet.

In August or September, a second surge of testosterone, the most important stimulant to antler growth, is released, causing the velvet to die and the bone to harden. The deer eventually rubs the velvet off, and the antlers become polished. By late December or early January, the supply of testosterone declines and a separation layer forms between the antler and pedicel. The antlers drop off shortly thereafter. In March or April, the process to begins again.

Researchers have noted that females can have a testosterone surge caused by a hormone imbalance, first pregnancy, tumors, or degenerative conditions of the ovaries or adrenal glands. This single surge can cause the growth of antlers in velvet.

Indeed, researchers estimate one in every 1,000 to 6,000 white-tailed females produces antlers. In Pennsylvania, researchers reported one antlered doe per 3,500 antlered deer. A 1985 study in Alberta, Canada, documented that eight of 517 adult does had antlers (about 1 in 64). The reasons for the high number of antlered females in this region: perhaps because every harvested deer was examined, or there may be a genetic predisposition for female antler growth.

Postmortem examination by researchers around the country indicates that does with antlers in velvet tend to be reproductively functional, or to have complete but malformed reproductive tracts, or to be true hermaphrodites in which the ovaries are more developed than the testes.

What about "does" with polished antlers? For the velvet to die and the antlers to become polished bone, a second surge of testosterone is necessary. Reproductively functional females will not get the second surge. Deer that appear to be does with polished antlers are almost always reproductively malformed males, which will have a second testosterone surge that causes the antler velvet to shed. Postmortem research on these deer shows most are cryptorchids, hermaphrodites with male organs predominant, or pseudohermaphrodites (animals with external female genitalia but internal male reproductive organs). Because its antlers were large and polished, Tom Schneider's 13-point deer likely was a pseudohermaphrodite.

If you kill what you suspect is an antlered doe, save the internal organs, then contact your local wildlife manager or veterinarian to request a thorough examination of the animal. You might be surprised by what they find.

Christopher DePerno, DNR Farmland Wildlife Populations & Research Group and Jonathan Jenks, South Dakota State University

You see, going in "drag" or "butch" occurs in a number of species other than humans.

I would have liked to have seen this deer in person. It differs than the other antlered doe I have studied. Did this deer have functional reproductive organs? Did the vaginal opening seem noemal or more like a port for urine? The mammary glands do not look the size of functional female glands. Also overall body confirmation looks like a buck. I have never seen any doe with a neck that large. Very interesting and thankyou for sharing.

I read an article some years ago with pictures where a hunter killed a "6 point Doe."

Sure enough, it was a Doe, with all the right anatomy, and she had a pair of that years fawns with her when she was killed. From memory, the antlers would have scored around 60".

I think antlered Does are more common in the south. Must be all the inbreeding.

its a hind.. an antlered doe...

it is PROBABLY a chimera, as this happens even with humans, basically an absorbed twin.

MORE proof there's no chlorine in the genepool..

About 8-9 years ago, I shot a 6 point doe here in upstate NY. She was following a small batch of does & fawns, head down, keeping her distance, just like a buck. Her antlers were quite large & tall, were well polished and she also had about 6" long eyebrows! Odd. It appeared thayt she had been barren her whole life, was about 6 years old with wll worn, large hooves.

I have seen a couple shot, so they aren't all that uncommon. I can say that I never have seen one with a rack like that one, the ones I've seen had the rack of a yearling, 6-8 points, but spindly. KSTEPHENS- It has nothing to do with game farms, the ones I saw were in N. Mo. there wasn't a penned deer within 100 miles.

I saw one tagged up here in northern maine this year. It was a small 6 point

jstevens wrote:

quote:

KSTEPHENS- It has nothing to do with game farms, the ones I saw were in N. Mo. there wasn't a penned deer within 100 miles.

--

No matter what the situation, if a deer is bagged in Texas, KSTEPHENS will infer or flatly state that it was a high-fenced, "penned" animal that was tied to a feeder, shot from a benchrest with a 36x target scope and using heat-seeking military missiles instead of bullets.

He simply doesn't know any better or when to give it a rest, either.

yeah...un ah demder geenahtick muttatations...


a capturing a hind was only one of the labors of heracles...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceryneian_Hin

No matter what the situation, if a deer is bagged in Texas, KSTEPHENS will infer or flatly state that it was a high-fenced, "penned" animal that was tied to a feeder, shot from a benchrest with a 36x target scope and using heat-seeking military missiles instead of bullets.

He simply doesn't know any better or when to give it a rest, either.[/QUOTE]






My thoughts exactly!

I shot an antlered doe in the 1986 antlered deer season north of Howe, Idaho.

She had 4 points about 16' high on one side and a 10" spike on the other.

I gave the head to the Idaho Fish and Game Department when they requested it.

The week before gun season here in Ohio a guy got a nice antlered doe in the county where I live. If I remember it was an eight point.

Rad

A friend shot one in 1989 near Kalispell, MT, it was a small WT spike still in velvet in the middle of Nov.

We call that a "Hillary" deer. All horn and no balls.

Ah, Kstphens (aka the ethical poacher) resurfaces. Hadn't seen you post since the 7th when just-a-hunter asked you several direct questions under the subject "Amazing diversity in ethics". Seems you always have time to make a snide comment or knock another poster, but seldom have time to pay a compliment, make a positve post, or answer a direct question!
GWB

It goes the other way,as well. I know a local, who after seeing what he thought to be a doe turned out to be a buck, with no antlers.

Stepchild

Wonder how you would have to tag that deer here in Texas???? Looking at my license the tags are only Buck or Antlerless ( meaning doe ) which tag would you use? Definatly not antlerless but not a buck? A freebie maybe????? Any game wardens from Texas post here? I'm kinda curious what would be right. I would probably use an antlerless tag thinking since it was female and females don't have antlers??????? AHHHHHH I'm confused!!!!!!!!!!!

JTEX: according to the great state of Texas, that deer is a "buck". the following if from the TPW Outdoor Annual:

"A "buck deer" is a deer with a hardened antler protruding through the skin. A "spike buck deer" is a BUCK with no antler having a fork or branching point. ALL OTHER DEER ARE ANTLERLESS DEER. A spike buck must be tagged with a buck deer tag from the hunter's hunting license or applicable permit"

Here in NY, when I shot my "Doe", I was also in an odd tag situation. I had both a Doe Tag & a Buck tag - I called our NY State field office & asked which to use. They told me that seeing as I shot it as a Buck, I should tag it as a Buck.

I have a friend in Shelby, MT that has a mounted 5 point doe on his wall. I know of one other mounted doe at Ray's Sporting Goods in Harlowtown, MT. Both of them have very nice racks.

Idaho classes all deer as "Antlered" and "Anterless" so there is no issue with buck or doe tags.

We have one of these crop up in Iowa every few years.
One of the guys I work with shot a "doe" during eary muzzleloader season this year, turned out to be a buck with both antlers broke off. Ya never know...

Back when in high school a guy a few classes older then me shot a doe with horns. She had 17 individual spikes coming out of a 'crown' on the top of her head. The longest spike was about 18" with several short ones in the 1-5" range. The kicker of the deal is he said when gutting her, she still had milk in her utter. Evidently she had given birth the previous summer.

quote:

Originally posted by 375hnh:
We have one of these crop up in Iowa every few years.
One of the guys I work with shot a "doe" during eary muzzleloader season this year, turned out to be a buck with both antlers broke off. Ya never know...

I did that one year. I had an anterless permit, and when I say that this deer was buck, I didn't know if I was in trouble or not.
The game warden laughed and said "well he doesn't have any antlers any more, so we filled your tag!". That deer's skull looked like he was head butting a wall! All cracked up.