Normally I hunt deer here in Minnesota with a .308, but have used .338 WM, .300 WM, .325 WSM, 30-30, 30-06, .280, 270, .300 Savage,8mm Mauser, and 12 guage slugs. Shots are never more than 150 yards, and most between 50 and 100 yards. No Problems.

But I have this cute little .223 WSSM Winchester Featherweight sitting in the corner. Never been used since I bought it new a number of years ago. It has a real pretty little stock on it, nice and light in weight, and I have a nice scope to put on it.

Would like to hear some experiences hunting deer with a 22 caliber rifle.

The only experience I have is I took my youngest brother on the youth hunt some years ago.

Not expecting anything I had him bring along my 22 Hornet. Legal but no where near ideal.

Well it happened a 3 year ten point started feeding right up to us. We were on a hill over looking a creek with acorn trees. When he got really close I mean feet, I had him brain him m right between the bases of the antlers and a little forward.

The deer staggered around for a ten count as he tried to reload the single shot 22 Hornet. Deer down and dead before he could finish.

You could not see the entrance on the scalp. The 223 wssm is a lot more gun. I would use something else, but no one can argue a 60 grain Partion thru the lungs or brain will not kill the deer.

I would stay away from neck and shoulder blade/spine shots w such a light cartidge.

With a good bullet it well kill deer.

I carry more gun because if that once in a life time buck steps out.

I can kill it with out worrying about a hard angle shot.

it will do the job with a good bullet.
try a tsx or ttsx.

Just my opinion, nothing more.

I also have killed a whitetail deer, a doe with a .22 Hornet. One shot, DRT 100 + or - yards or so, who cares, I got LUCKY!!!!

There have been more whitetails killed with .22 Long Rifles and .22 Shorts in America than with all centerfire calibers combined!

My point is, just because it can be done, should it and just because a proficient individual can do it, should everyone be trying it.

Honestly, how many people are actually affected by the muzzle blast or recoil of a .243?

A .243 or a .257 Roberts or a .7mm-08 are not that big a step up.

Yes, I know lots of folks that have killed a bunch O' whitetail, bucks and does with .222, .222 Rem. Mag. and .223.

Deal is, how many of you are willing to choose a .222/.222 Rem. Mag. or .223 if the possibility of an actual trophy buck would walk under the feeder.

This discussion has played Ring Around The Rosy every year since I joined, and everytime when the prospect of an actual TROPHY buck being part of the equation, everyone wants to have a larger caliber gun at hand!

By all means, use whatever you are comfortable with, it is totally up to the individual to make the choice.

Can you kill one with it, absolutely. Would I use one, no way. My personal minimum is .308 Caliber for deer hunting. I want something that is effective in all situations not something effective in the best situations.

Killed my first and several more with a .22-250. No monometals/partitions/bondeds back then. Just 55, 63, 70 gr cup/cores. Zero blood trail. None lost. All shot in open fields. Longest death sprint was about 150 yds, avg not quite 50 yds.

A long sprint was not a problem in Dad's field. It is a real problem behind my house. Very thick beyond the small field edges. Son took his first there with a .243. A 100 yd run had me nervous. Son's eyes found some red mist on very scant snow patches. That got us pointed correctly.

Next year he used a .300. We've never hunted here with a .243 since.

Not bashing smallbores. I know you can kill all kinds of stuff with a .243, .22 CF, .25-20, .22 RF. Conditions are the thing - killing is not the same as retrieving.

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Not bashing smallbores. I know you can kill all kinds of stuff with a .243, .22 CF, .25-20, .22 RF. Conditions are the thing - killing is not the same as retrieving.

Plus One.

No experience with light small bores.
Worth mentioning is that ... Muzzle energy is about equal to a 257 Roberts and .243 Winchester shooting 75 grainers through a 24 inch barrel.
I just 'like a bigger hammer' as in a 150 grain or larger bullet for any size whitetail.

When I first started hunting whitetails in 1969, the woods were crowded with hunters. If you were lucky enough to get a shot at a buck, if you didn't drop it on the spot, someone else would likely drop and tag it. (its the way it was)and I took many deer with my 06 and 180 gr Sierra's..

As I got older, the challenge was gone, so I did things to make it more difficult.. Archery, an inline, and even a flintlock.. The very last deer I shot I used my Marlin 1894 in 45 colt and I used a cowboy load to take it. Of course, I did this at probably 35 yards out of my archery stand..
Again this was in the mountains of Pa, and most deer are going to be in the 80 to 120 pound range... rarely will you run across one larger. Flatland or farm deer are a different story, and I wouldn't have tried that with one of them.

Now that I have rambled on, I think the 223 could be appropriate for your purposes. depending on the distance you expect to shoot at, how big the deer are on average in your area etc..

I have been playing with the Sierra 65 gr SPBT in my 223 with promising results.. I doubt I'll ever shoot another deer (lost interest) but I think if I were hunting the small mountain deer at distances of under 125 yard, I'd give the 223 a try.

One thing a person needs to check on is the minimum caliber required in the state they are going to be hunting in.

I know laws change but I remember when looking at doing hunts outside Texas some states had minimum caliber requirements and some included minimum grain weight bullets and/or minimum muzzle energies.

Oh No.................



.

A young man I know started at age 12 or 13 with a .223 short mag, 64 grn win bullets. He has now used it for..... 8 maybe 10 yrs. He thinks it's his lucky gun, and wont change.
I think he's shot 10 or 12 deer, and 2 bear. One shot each, nothing lost. He's very patient and picks his shots, double lung and down they go.

When I was a kid my grandpa would haul out his Winchester Model 1890 22WRF to show me, and would always let me know about the deer that he shot with it. I have a feeling those might have been bootleg deer.

Anyway, I think I will give the .223 WSSM a try. Now I gotta figure out what to load for it. Fortunately I have some new brass but will need to get a set of dies for it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lindy2:
When I was a kid my grandpa would haul out his Winchester Model 1890 22WRF to show me, and would always let me know about the deer that he shot with it. I have a feeling those might have been bootleg deer.

Anyway, I think I will give the .223 WSSM a try. Now I gotta figure out what to load for it. Fortunately I have some new brass but will need to get a set of dies for it.[/QUOTE)

The Nosler 64 grain bonded is an excellent deer bullet that does not costalotta.In the mid 80`s Menomonee County Mi.averaged 120 deer per square mile.Starting in July you could spot light deer after dark and shoot as many as you wanted to.I donated all but a couple for my self and sometimes shot over 100 in 3 nights.A 55 grain Hornady out of a 223 between the headlights out to 250 300 yards made for no tracking or lost deer.Just saying,OB

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Originally posted by Lamar:
it will do the job with a good bullet.
try a tsx or ttsx.

I've never used a 22cal tsx, but I've used quite a few other different sizes and they've been great. Hard to believe a 22 call Barnes wouldn't work perfectly.
For years and decades a relative of mine used a 22-250 on deer and it worked well. Carefully chosen shots, good shooting conditions, never had a problem.

a .223 is plenty gun for those little sissy Texas deer that are getting shot inside of 200 yards it's not a great idea for bigger bodied deer or in places like here in Utah where ranges can be quite extended.

In the last 50 years I don't think I have taken more than a handful of whitetail deer over 200 pounds where I hunt in central Minnesota. And the antlers do not get very large, I suspect due to poor mineral content in the soil and bad genetics. And, as I mentioned above, most shots are under 100 yards.

Maybe I will look at the heaviest Nosler Partition for the caliber.

If it is legal and a person is comfortable and confident with the gun go for it.

It is solely up to the hunter to understand "Their" own personal limitations with their choice of equipment.

The weakest link is, always has been and always will be, the nut squeezing the trigger.

I've seen whitetails shot with just about every caliber from .222 to .338. The mortality/recovery rate seems to be just about the same with any of them. Personally, I'd be much more confident hunting deer with a scoped .223 loaded with an appropriate bullet than with an iron-sighted .30-30.

As far as the "killing power" of .22 centerfires on deer-sized animals, several hundred thousand dead soldiers in various world conflicts can't be wrong.

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Maybe I will look at the heaviest Nosler Partition for the caliber

This would only be the correct answer if they shoot accurately in that rifle.
As much as people praise the almighty Partition I'm not happy with their accuracy in a dozen rifles and countless load combinations I've tried so I'll never use them.
More on topic I've seen first hand and in person a few dozen results that .224" bullets have on Deer and it is impressive.
The TSX, TTSX Barnes hit with authority and travel through and exit, CEB raptors are deadly and also pass through, 50 and 55 grain Sierras work great in the lungs and I've experienced many drops at the shot.
I've recently played with the 64 grain Bonded Solid Base Nosler and I'm confident it will perform as well.
Years ago I found that the heavy 70 grain Speer was soft and I was unimpressed as I was with 55 and 60 grain Hornadys.
In the .224"'s heavy isn't the answer but good construction is important.
If you know how to hit a deer in the heart or lungs the centerfire .22's are very deadly.

I went to the ranch one night. Next morning I got up to discover that I had grabbed the wrong rifle. I have a bunch of identical rifles in different calibers. I went back to bed. Then it hit me that I had an AR under the back seat of my truck. I jumped up, put on my clothes and took off.

Several does cams in. They were were nervous. They kept looking behind me. Then I heard it. A buck was grunting. Hell yes! I hear him coming. He stops less than 10 yards from my stand. It is SERIOUS 10 point. Off goes the safety. BOOM!

I can see the bullet hit. It was perfect . Off he runs. I text a buddy to advise I have just killed a giant. I was 100% confident he was dead. I waited a half an hour. I climb down. No blood. Hmmm.... I continue to look. Ultimately, I found a tiny spot of blood and that was it. No deer.

My conclusion was that the bullet was moving so fast that close that it must have shattered. That cured me of using a 223. I wish I could remember what bullet.

I will say that I have killed a number of hogs with my bolt action 223. No big hogs unless they were head shot. It has been fine.

Quote [As much as people praise the almighty Partition I'm not happy with their accuracy in a dozen rifles and countless load combinations I've tried so I'll never use them.] Quote

I have used the cheap ones (2nds) for years and years in all of my rifles with no problems. I am not one of those guys that insists on MOA for a hunting rifle. Within a pie dish of where I am aiming is fine with me. I almost always use the lower load recipe found in the loading books, and I don't own a chronograph so I don't have to worry about velocity. Last year it was the .308 Winchester - two shots, two deer, both dead right there.

Back in the '60's when I was young and feeding the kids on a $1 an hour wages. Inlaws and I killed half dozen or more mulies in the wheat field every year with a .22. Always head shots. Never failed to drop 'em where they stood. Range was less than 50 yards and most times not that many feet. Most in the headlights, not all though.

Up on the ranch we hunted elk for years. Rancher and were out cutting fire wood and lots of pine squirrels around. He said: "you should bring your .22 and get us a bunch". Next day I took a gunny sack and went. I'd shot over a dozen and was picking one up when I saw a flickering on the side of a pine about 50 feet. Got ready, leaned up against a tree for the head shot. "DAMN, that's an elk's ear!" I still can't understand why he'd be there with all the shooting and commotion I was making.

Since we'd gone out several times to kill one and hadn't yet. When the bull stuck his head around to clear the tree. I put one in the hollow under his ear. One of the most impressive shots I've ever made. Impression was his head hit him in the ass before he dropped. Rancher just about filled his panties when I dumped out a bunch of squirrels and the backstraps. We went back next morning to get the rest of the meat. They sure are great eating end of August!

I'd been the beef killer for the hay crew for several years. We butchered a beef a week for 7 weeks. I knew what I was doing with it. And yes, "farmer/rancher season".

One time FIL and BIL and I were out for a deer in a box canyon when a forkhorn muley ran by to the closed off end. I told them to make sure it didn't get away but, I was going to try a lung shot just to see how it worked. They blocked the narrow outlet. I'd never do it again, and wouldn't have then if there was any chance it could have gotten away. But, a .22 in the ribs deflated both lungs. They looked just like a fishes lungs when deflated.

The only thing bigger than coyote I've shot with a .223 55gr C/L. Was a 2yr old antelope at 100yds. I was along with an old man that couldn't walk during season, I was "only along to help him, and call coyotes". Only thing I had was the .223., in full camo, I stalked about half mile and crawled the last 100yds or so in nearly no cover. Bunch of a dozen or so were spread out. When I looked around the last little bush this buck was standing face on watching me, all the others were watching him to see what he'd spotted. Guess I made enough noise. Laid down and was going to brain him. At the shot the rest took off and never looked back. This buck ran less than 30 yds and stopped to see what I was. Next one was in the ribs, hit a rib going in and angled back thru the near lung, liver and out the far short ribs. Near as I could measure was 13" travel inside. Funny thing, groove centered between his horns thru the hair. Cut it off within 1/8" of his scalp, I hadn't allowed quite enough for the scope height.

I feel IF it's legal in your area. AND you're a fine shot with lots of practice like we out here are on prairie dogs so much. It shouldn't be hard to kill a deer within 150yds with a .223.

Those days I was under the influence of older guys hunting out of season. I'm as anti poaching now as anyone you've ever met. What we did, was NOT right, and sure as hell not legal. I also believe those out of season animals had a lot to do with how many years I've never filled my tag since. Payback sucks!

George

I wouldn't hesitate, but I'd use the 50-55gr TTSX's. You'd get expansion and penetration with that combo.

My wife uses a .223 for deer hunting. She has taken a number of big northern deer with it over the years with mixed results. Most deer were dead within 100 of where they were shot and only 1 ran just a tad further (high lung shot). Last year she tried the 50 gr. CEB Raptor with phenomenal results. My issue with the gun is it's slow twist barrel, it just wont stabilize anything much over 60gr. I'm not sure if you will have that problem with the .223WSSM and could open up the ability to shoot accubonds, Scirocco's, and nosler bonded bullets. Honestly, I would pick the heaviest bullety your rifle will stabilize. But based on my observations, If I had to rank them from best to worst:

CEB Raptor
Nosler Partition 60 gr.
Barnes 50gr TSX
Winchester 55gr power point

quote:

Originally posted by lindy2:
Quote [As much as people praise the almighty Partition I'm not happy with their accuracy in a dozen rifles and countless load combinations I've tried so I'll never use them.] Quote

I have used the cheap ones (2nds) for years and years in all of my rifles with no problems. I am not one of those guys that insists on MOA for a hunting rifle. Within a couple of inches of where I am aiming is fine with me. I almost always use the lower load recipe found in the loading books, and I don't own a chronograph so I don't have to worry about velocity. Last year it was the .308 Winchester - two shots, two deer, both dead right there.

While hunting close range, that's acceptable accuracy. However, when you get into longer hunting situations, a couple inches at 100 yards is magnified exponentially at longer distances.

I too have had my struggles getting accepted accuracy with the Partitions so much, I don't even try them any longer.

Now back to the original posting. Any acceptably constructed bullet put in the heart lung area within a reasonable distance will kill a whitetail.

quote:

However, when you get into longer hunting situations, a couple inches at 100 yards is magnified exponentially at longer distances.

I would not attempt a shot at a deer further than 150 yards with a .223 wssm. Almost all of my shots will be 100 yards or less, and vary rarely will one be 150 yards. I use my old Swarovski rangefinder and am pretty careful with the shots I will take, even with my .308.
If I know I would need to shoot further I would haul out the .300 WM, but that rifle is heavy and I try to avoid it.

Get a rifle with the 5.56x45 chamber instead of 223 like a Ruger American Ranch Rifle. Then shoot either the 62 or 70 grain TSX in Barnes factory Vortex ammo. Deer killing SOB out to 150 yards. Perfect for Texas box blind hunting at reasonable distances.

Take your little rifle hunting. Use the right bullets and know the limitations of the cartridge. Anytime you use a less than ideal tool, you have limitations and restrictions. Bows, muzzle loaders, air rifles, spears, etc.; they will all work but have limitations.

Safe shooting...…….L

We have shot deer and antelope with my 223 WSSM and 55 TTSX bullets. The only bullet recovered was from a quartering away shot at 360 yards.

A friend of mine shot 3 deer with a .223 using cheap soft points. He only recovered 1 out of those 3 deer. I see no problem using a .223 with quality bullets like tsx, but anything less isn't right for the deer unless your doing head of neck shots.

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:
No experience with light small bores.
Worth mentioning is that ... Muzzle energy is about equal to a 257 Roberts and .243 Winchester shooting 75 grainers through a 24 inch barrel.
I just 'like a bigger hammer' as in a 150 grain or larger bullet for any size whitetail.

Why on Earth would anyone use a .75 gr bullet in a 243 Win cartridge for anything larger that a coyote? A 243 will push a 100 gr Nosler Partition @ 3000 fps,and a shot through the chest just behind the front leg elbow will drop a big Mule deer in his tracks. The 75 gr .243 bullets are for varmint like coyote hunting, not deer!


……………………………………………………...

I'm surprised no one has discussed the legality of even using the .223??
I believe the .243 is the legal minimum in many places is it not ??
It was growing up but I haven't looked or thought about that in many years.
I personally don't understand the desire to use calibers very light relative to game size.
I use a .300 WSM for deer. Kills them quite dead and quite quickly. They rarely take a step...

quote:

One thing a person needs to check on is the minimum caliber required in the state they are going to be hunting in.

I know laws change but I remember when looking at doing hunts outside Texas some states had minimum caliber requirements and some included minimum grain weight bullets and/or minimum muzzle energies.

Beating my own drum but I mentioned that, and here was the first rersponse from one of the intelligentia:

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Oh No................

Not sure why the person made that comment, but Yes and things may have changed but many states did or still do have minimum caliber requirements.

Every jurisdiction is different KY allows Any centerfire cartridge. This includes the 22 hornet and 30 carbine. However, fmj are specifically illegal in any caliber.

Technically, legally shooting deer with solids from your Safari big gun would be illegal if you used solids to minimize meat damages. However, it is perfectly legal to take a 22 hornet with the softest, fastest expanding bullet on he market is legal.

The law and common sense do not always intersect. Often they do not.

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The law and common sense do not always intersect. Often they do not.

Excellent analysis.

Check the regulations and understand what is legal, if it is legal go for it. I have shot deer here in Texas with calibers from .22 Hornet to .458 Win Mag, including a .50 caliber black powder rifle.

load it up with some 60 gn noslers and go hunting....New Zealanders have shot thousands upon thousands of deer with there 222/223 and still do to this day....not only small deer like sika and fallow but the bigger Reds

Daniel

quote:

Originally posted by M 98:
load it up with some 60 gn noslers and go hunting....New Zealanders have shot thousands upon thousands of deer with there 222/223 and still do to this day....not only small deer like sika and fallow but the bigger Reds

Daniel

In Texas any center fire rifle is legal for deer. Rim fire cartridges are illegal for deer in Texas regardless of caliber. Muzzle loaders must be a rifle to be legal, but a caplock pistol is illegal.

Some things do not seem to make sense where game laws are concerned, but we must abide by them none the less!

During WWII I was just a kid, but was given the job of supplying meat for three families who moved on My grandfather's ranch in the Texas hill country while thir men were fighting a war. Big bore ammo was not available, so the little single shot .22LR Winchester was all we had ammo for so I almost wiped out the whitetail deer on our ranch during WWII with head shots with that little .22LR.

None the less, the small .22 cartridges, even the center fire are not the best choice anyone can use, but with careful placement with the heaviest bullet available they will kill deer where legal.


……………...I'll stick with the .243 100 gr Nosler PT and up for my deer hunting.

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Big bore ammo was not available, so the little single shot .22LR Winchester was all we had ammo for so I almost wiped out the whitetail deer on our ranch during WWII with head shots with that little .22LR.

My dad laid low many a whitetail during the depression with a springfield .22rf.

I prefer larger firearms.