quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
My dad laid low many a whitetail during the depression with a springfield .22rf.

I prefer larger firearms.

Your recent ME black bear hunting experience ("Bearguide mauled" thread) punctuates the point some are trying to make concerning deer with .22s.

Really, really well.

quote:

with the heaviest bullet available they will kill deer where legal

This quote from one of the posters above is wholly untrue.
With todays advancement in projectiles (I mean the last 25 years) the "heavy for caliber" statement is not what is required for clean kills with .22 centerfires.
The advent of Mono metal and Bonded bullets has changed the game. A .224" 45 grain monometal will shred a deers heart and lungs and exit nearly 100% of the time.
Mono's in the 45-60 grain range are all that are required, I've found the "heavy for caliber" 70 grain Speer to be a huge disappointment and not different than a 55 grain cup and core as far as performance on deer sized game.
Bullet construction has changed for the better and not just for the .224"'s the old axioms fall short even though they were once gospel.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:

quote:

with the heaviest bullet available they will kill deer where legal

This quote from one of the posters above is wholly untrue.
With todays advancement in projectiles (I mean the last 25 years) the "heavy for caliber" statement is not what is required for clean kills with .22 centerfires.
The advent of Mono metal and Bonded bullets has changed the game. A .224" 45 grain monometal will shred a deers heart and lungs and exit nearly 100% of the time.
Mono's in the 45-60 grain range are all that are required, I've found the "heavy for caliber" 70 grain Speer to be a huge disappointment and not different than a 55 grain cup and core as far as performance on deer sized game.
Bullet construction has changed for the better and not just for the .224"'s the old axioms fall short even though they were once gospel.

………………………………………….Opinions vary! However opinions don't necessarily prove that a .223 bullet is even close to being the best choice where deer and larger game is concerned. If the .22s float your canoe and are legal in your state then paddle on down stream.


……………………………………………………….





In most states

Being 65 years old I have kind of figured out already that one needs to be legal when hunting.

From page 60 of the 2018 Minnesota Hunting and Trapping Regulations Handbook: "What firearms are legal for big game? At least .220 caliber and has centerfire ignition. Loaded with one single projectile. The projectile has a soft point and is an expanding bullet type."

I'm keeping my eye on Shooter's Pro Shop and hopefully before deer season I will be able to buy some 2nds Partitions for cheap money.

quote:

least .220 caliber and has centerfire ignition

So any 220 dia center fire and bigger is legal.

22 hornet 218 bee 25acp 32acp ect ect.

223 is legal in my state. my first 4 grandkids killed their first whitetail with my savage axis 223 shooting 64gr power points. each deer was no farther that 50 yards. all one shot kills from box stands. 2 more grandkids are going to use the same rifle for their first deer this fall. the 223 certainly isn't the best whitetail cartridge, but it will damn sure kill deer if one puts a decent bullet through both lungs. ymmv.

Deer aren't hard to kill. Use the right bullet (like a Triple Shok) and place your shots well, and dead deer will ensue. No reason or place for righteous indignation.

quote:

The question I pose to you is, “ How would you feel if you shot at, and lost a deer due to your cartridge selection?” If we are true sportsman, we owe it to our quarry to do all we can to harvest it humanely.

Poor shooting is the cause for losing game not "cartridge selection". If your viewpoint was even partially accurate then everyone would use .338's for deer and no one would "ever" lose an animal and we all know that is bullshit, poor shooting accounts for lost game "Big Guns" don't prevent it.
I've seen plenty of .223's and 22/250's take piles of deer and a few Antelope and most are fairly dramatic one shot kills.

quote:

If we are true sportsman, we owe it to our quarry to do all we can to harvest it humanely

I'll tell you what gets my panties in a bunch is when some guy on the internet thinks his opinion means more than someone else's boots on the ground experiences.
When you make the above statement in the context of this discussion you are accusing someone who uses a cartridge other than what you approve of as not a true sportsman.
In my experience, and I have a little, the selection of cartridge ranks pretty low in the scale of what kills game.
Good shooting kills game, not some cartridge size approved by you.
When all the facts are totaled I've seen and heard tell of more game being lost with one cartridge more than others and it is not even close to a .223.

I firmly believe in the quote at the top of this page but if someone has lost game with a .224" bullet he is apt to suffer the same indignation with another cartridge, poor shooting happens, blaming it on something other than your shooting is irresponsible.

What gets my panties in a bunch is when guys go off the topic and start yelling at each other. I used to do that here and it got me kicked off three times.
Stop it and stay on the topic.

I agree that we owe it to the animal we are hunting to make the best shot we can so that if we hit the animal it will not suffer. By that I mean aim for a vital organ, whichever one you choose, and don't shoot if you don't have a good shot.
As for supreme accuracy, I am happy with my shooting if I can put three holes in an 8 inch circle. I am not that good of a shot. But I have been hunting deer for almost 55 years and I can't recall a deer that I hit that got away. Most are dead right there. And I think I will shoot better with the 223 WSSM because its a very mild report and recoil.

quote:

And I think I will shoot better with the 223 WSSM because its a very mild report and recoil

You are correct on all counts Lindy.

Decent bullets and decent shooting you will be killing deer with your rifle.
Heavy bullets not required, mono metal or Bonded in the 45 to 65 grain range and you'll be impressed.
Good luck with your new deer killin machine.

60 grain Partitions out of a .22 centerfire will kill deer all day long. In fact, a good friend of mine who lived in Kyrgyzstan used them for ibex and roe deer with great success. I actually think a Partition is better than a TSX here, as the TSX is a bit more likely to zip through without adequate trauma, though the .223 WSSM's extra velocity may minimize that risk.

There are a few guys I know here in NV who hunt with the 22-250 and the factory 64gr Winchester power point bullets. They claim to have never lost any deer with them.

The way the law reads here it must be 22 caliber or larger and produce a minimum of 1000fpe at 100 yds.

Smallest caliber i've used on a deer is a 243Win with 100gr cor-lokt ammo.

Most of our cull hunts in the Texas whitetail area North of Austin, are shot with 222, and 223s..Many also are shot during the rifle buck season with same calibers..Ive shot many Whitetail and mule deer with a 222,223 and 22-250, my favorite bullet is the 60 gr. Hornady soft point or hollow point..I a dyed in the wool Nosler fan but partition bullets are not my favorite on deer in 2 caliber because the expansion is controlled an internal damage is not as good as the Hornady and the partition penetrates and works best in the larger calibers from the 270 and up..cross section of recovered bullets tells the real story..One of the reason I like the 87 gr. 250-3000 bullets, they kill deer like a lightening strike..BUT keep the range under 200 yards, those light fast bullets that kill so well run out of gas past 200 yards..I actually prefer to keep velocity in the 2800 FPS with the light calibers, they are still explosive up close but make nice mushrooms out beyond 100 or so yards, and work out to 200 or so.