Ok, I know we've been through this before because I brought it up last August or Sept. But we have new members since then so I'll start the topic again.

I leave next Sunday for New Brunswick to bear hunt. I get back on Saturday the 14th. Then I fly to Alberta for another week for 2 bears, unlimited wolves.

I will be taking my 30.06 as a BACK UP. I will be hunting with my bow primarily. In New Brunswick, my guide will video my hunt (so someone will have to tell me how to upload a video and post it so anyone can view it if I'm successful).

These are baited hunts, so shots are not far. 22 yards is the max is what I've heard so far. However, big boars do tend to hang up out a ways where I could easily get a shot with a rifle. I'm told that some baits have a good 70 yards of visibility.

So, one of my thoughts is to take a big 220 grain round nose that opens rapidly and may not even pass through, thus transferring all energy for a kill (which I'm sure we can all agree, this is a good thing),

OR,

Load up some good ol 180 TSX over H4350 or Re22. I still have 180 Partitions, 200 Partitions, 168 TSX, Sierras, Speer, Hornady, Swift, you name it.

My problem is, I have too many to choose from. Accuracy is not as important as this is close range (less than 100 yards), so I don't need super tight groups.

There's no doubt that a 180 TSX or Partition or A frame is going to blow all the way through, my only fear is that at a close shot distance, the TSX will shed it's razor cutting petals or the partition will shed all of its front core.

Again, bear in mind (no pun intended), I'll be holding my bow first. The rifle will hang in the tree with me, just in case.

My own choice would be the 180gr tsx but any of the combinations that you mentioned would work fine.

I think black bears are best shot with a premium bullet, just in case you need to shoot at bear facing head on. When I baited them myself, I always covered the bait pile with logs perpindicular to my stand, so that when the bear swiped the logs, it was standing broadside. Then any bullet works fine.

Hey, that is a good point. I didn't think of that. Let alone, I've heard stories where hunters are approaching their stand and a bear is already there, and DOESN'T want to leave. Premium bullets make sense there for sure.

Honestly, the TSX, 180, is my first choice. Because, I've never killed anything with that bullet.

Well, you could have the best of both worlds. Assuming a similar POI (at 50 yds) for both, a Swift in the barrel and Barnes in the magazine for a follow up that might not be broadside.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:

So, one of my thoughts is to take a big 220 grain round nose that opens rapidly and may not even pass through, thus transferring all energy for a kill (which I'm sure we can all agree, this is a good thing),

Don't get carried away. I can't imagine the black bear that would not be served well with any standard 180 grain bullet in the 30-06. The Hornady interlock comes to mind. I suppose the 180 gr Nosler partition could be some insurance. I would consider a 220 overkill for anything but a grizzly, bison, or big moose. I think the 220 would end up giving you a small wound channel and complete pass-through without good expansion (even the round-nose). I think folks commonly go "over-gunned" with bullets when hunting black bear.

This is from a guy who like heavy-for-caliber bullets.

JMHO

quote:

Originally posted by boreal:

Don't get carried away. I can't imagine the black bear that would not be served well with any standard 180 grain bullet in the 30-06. The Hornady interlock comes to mind. I suppose the 180 gr Nosler partition could be some insurance. I would consider a 220 overkill for anything but a grizzly, bison, or big moose. I think the 220 would end up giving you a small wound channel and complete pass-through without good expansion (even the round-nose). I think folks commonly go "over-gunned" with bullets when hunting black bear.

This is from a guy who like heavy-for-caliber bullets.

JMHO

Well, OK. I admit I have ZERO experience with a 220 round nose on black bears at close range, however, a friend killed his blackbear last year in Ontario with a 220 Core Lokt from his .06 at about 12 yards. He said that the bear collapsed, got up and ran 5 yards and rolled over. No exit wound but MASSIVE EXPANSION DAMAGE.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for less recoil, but I've never killed a bear with a rifle. The guides I hunted with in Maine last year emailed to all the hunters how the season finished up. There were 6 hunters in camp the week after I hunted, 5 shot bears with 30.06, and 300 Win at very close range. None of the bears were found.

Now, I know with the information given there are many variables from poor shot placement, poor tracking skills, whatever, so I won't even go into that debate. I learned that 3 of the hunters are veteran bear hunters.

So, that is why I brought it up again. I'm staring at a box of 180 TSX bullets that I haven't even opened yet. But I have a hell of a load with 180 partitions already boxed up from my last years hunt. Damn. Decisions, decisions.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
No exit wound but .

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for less recoil, None of the bears were found.

Now, I know with the information given there are many variables from poor shot placement, poor tracking skills, whatever, so I won't even go into that debate. I learned that 3 of the hunters are veteran bear hunters.
:

I'm amazed that a 220 gr bullet had no exit wound at 30-06 velocities at ANY angle on all but the very largest black bears. Well, learn something new every day!
Recoil is not a factor in my advice.
Those partitions will do you fine. I've killed black bears up to 450 pounds, and standard construction bullets work great. I actually think that a 30-30 is enough for any black bear. I use a 180 grain bullet in 30-06 for the big whitetails around here (NE Mn), so you see that I consider a big whitetail as hard to put down as a black bear and I like heavy-for-caliber bullets in general.
I find it amazing that those bears you speak of were not found. Sounds like factors other than bullet construction were at work. Perhaps folks were freaked out about hunting bear and afraid of them. B-Bears really are not that hard to kill. Just shoot well. Remember that black bears are AFRAID OF YOU! There is little need for you to be afraid of them. (now meeting a spring sow with cubs while you are unarmed is a different story).

Good luck on your hunt!

Well, you are just as amazed as I was when he told me that the bullet didn't pass through. I never hunt with round nose bullets but I'm told they open violently at close range.

My friend told me that the bullet was recovered and flattened like a pancake. But, he didn't care, and for obvious reasons.

quote:

So, one of my thoughts is to take a big 220 grain round nose that opens rapidly and may not even pass through, thus transferring all energy for a kill (which I'm sure we can all agree, this is a good thing),

Sorry to spoil the record, but I don't agree with the 'transferring all the energy' theory.

That may be what happened to those 5 bears mentioned above. A large blood gushing exit wound would have made tracking a much easier, and perhaps sucessful, event.

Break bones, take out internals, and leave a big hole on the way out. That's the way to drop any bear.

If I were to take a .30-06 for black bear, I'd load 180 gr. Nosler Partitions to 2700 fps. or better. Heavier bullets are not needed. An all-around '06 load is all you need. Black bear aren't that tough to knock over.

AD

quote:

I never hunt with round nose bullets but I'm told they open violently at close range.

Doc,

In my way of looking at things...a round nose bullet most resembles a full metal (or ball) bullet. To expect one to open violently doesn't make sense. A hollow point is designed to expand rapidly on contact, much like the Triple X Barnes. I too have heard good things about the new Barnes bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by BW:

Sorry to spoil the record, but I don't agree with the 'transferring all the energy' theory.

That may be what happened to those 5 bears mentioned above. A large blood gushing exit wound would have made tracking a much easier, and perhaps sucessful, event.

Break bones, take out internals, and leave a big hole on the way out. That's the way to drop any bear.

I respect your opinion. However, regarding energy transfer, my personal experience with non pass throughs is this: 100% of the time the animal dropped and never moved. Don't get me wrong, I've had plenty of pass throughs where they still dropped, but I cannot say that THAT has occurred 100% of the time, however.

I emailed Josh about those Maine bears and he did say that several had very long blood trails, but, they simply "ran out."

I just don't want to have a bear run off, because quite frankly, if there is an exit hole, I'd like it to be BIG as well. And yes, your advice is sound on the hitting bone issue. I've been training at the range with ballistic tips on a bear target and hitting the shoulder bones, just for practice on placement.

I only shot one bear. It was with a 30-06 with 180 grain Winchester Failsafe. I waited for a quartering-away shot at 25 yds and shot just behind the shoulder blade.

The bear made three long jumps, and died. There was an exit hole, but no blood at the spot he was standing because the thick hair soaked it up. The petals were found in the skin, and the exit was small.

The bear was dead in seconds, but we did not check the internal damage and I was left wishing for a bigger hole. (Its never the same twice )

www.northforkbullets.com

I'd also like to point out at such close ranges a simple 12 ga slug will do massive damage and surly kill your bear, big hole included.



But then again, my last bear went 50 feet with a plain old broadhead.

Oh the choices!

I've always felt rifles were for long range shooting. If you are doing a baited hunt a shotgun, even a handgun or a bow will do you fine.

Good hunting....!

quote:

If you are doing a baited hunt a shotgun, even a handgun or a bow will do you fine.

Good hunting....!

No handguns in Canada. I like the shotgun idea, but I'd take my muzzleloader before a shotgun for a big hole. I only have one shotgun, a Berreta Silver Mallard Series 12 guage.

You're on the money though. Like I said, bow first, gun second.

DOC!!!!

quote:

I REALLY like Barnes Triple Shock bullets

Nuf said!

MG

I've shot average sized ( 200-250# field dressed) bears with plain old 150 rem corloks in a .308 and 06. It'll break the on side shoulder and often both and stay inside. Bears seem to most always drop at a hit, so be ready to get another shot off if you dont think the first was a solid hit.

quote:

Originally posted by TSJ:
Bears seem to most always drop at a hit, so be ready to get another shot off if you dont think the first was a solid hit.

Yes, before EVERY hunt of any kind, I try to mentally prepare myself for rapid bolt maneuvers. I'd like to think I can get 2 rounds off in about 3-4 seconds or less in a HUNTING situation. That is something I should practice even more, but so far, I've never needed a second shot.

quote:

Originally posted by BW:

Doc,

In my way of looking at things...a round nose bullet most resembles a full metal (or ball) bullet. To expect one to open violently doesn't make sense.

The round-nose bullets that I'm familiar with have lots of exposed lead and are made to open quickly. I've shot a few critters with a 220 round-nose from the 30-06 and the heavy weight and 30-06 velocities (slow) are what made me expect pass through under most circumstances.

Well, I thought they'd be pass throughs as well considering their wt. I also respectfully disagree with BW where a round nose most resembles a full metal or ball bullet. To the contrary. I think they are designed to rapidly open with all the exposed lead. Proof in the pudding with my friend's results as there was no through and through at such a short distance. It is my understanding that these round nose bullets are made with a bit softer lead.

Oh well. I'm no expert. I think what I'll do is simply take a variety in the gun...POI is a mute point since the shot distance is so short. I'll make sure they all hit in a 2" radius at 75 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
I think what I'll do is simply take a variety in the gun...POI is a mute point since the shot distance is so short. I'll make sure they all hit in a 2" radius at 75 yards.

There ya go!! Load up with everything ya got and give it all to him! Let us know the results when you get back.

I have shot blk bears with 165 gr bullets to 220gr bullets haven't seen much differants they all died.
I have a freind who has been running bears with dogs for over 60 years he says bring anything you want they all work. Last year he shot his bear with a model 7 in 308 and a 165 gr bullet bear died it weighed 416lbs dressed.

Another freind shot his 430lb bear with his 44 mag super redhawk and 240 gr factory it died also.

I think the best bullet to have is the one in your gun when you need to shoot a bear.

Well I wonder some times about the general idea out there that you need really big skonking heavy for the cal. bullets to get the job done on a black bear. Like 200-220 gr bullets for example in 30 cal.
Sh*t the blackies are not armour plated guys and a 1000lbs on the hoof! A big spring blackie around here... Vancouver Island... will maybe tip the scales at 300 lbs more likely 250ish. In the fall they will be 100-200 lbs heavier. A 300 lbs. blackie is not even as tough/big as a bull elk!
I would rather see a guy use say a 165gr bullet in 30 cal., like the Nosler partition or TSX for instance or a 180gr as upper end.
I remember a article by Oconnor early in his career where he shot a medium sized Alaska grizzly at 100 yds or so with his 06 and 180 gr bullet and was amazed that the bullet just flew thru smashed into the river bed on the other side and the bear barely moved out of its tracks before it was dead.
For some reason or another and this is just me maybe but the majority of sad stories I have heard on blackies were either poor shot placement or a very heavy for cal/ bullet that did'nt get the job done right.
As to blood trailing balckies that can be a problem sometimes as their body/hide/hair type often wo'nt let this happen like on a Deer or Elk on a bullet pass thru the hair will soak up blood or the hide will move over the exit and block blood flow.
I agree that often they will take a good hit and get up and go on you. They just have a much tougher nervous system I think than Deer etc. their dead but just do'nt know it. Many times I have seen the video or story of a well shot blackie drop roll and take off only to be found a short distance away stone dead.

Doc,

You will be served just fine with the 220 round nose or the 180 TSX. I have shot "lots" of bears off of stands using my 8mm mag, .375 ultra, .44, and .300 wsm. My brother hunted moose with the 220's out of his 06 and they did great. Very good penentration and you could sure hear the bullet hit. If you like the TSX, go with them. I am going to use the 180 tsx in my .300 wsm in Africa this summer. Those bears are fast and in some instances, I will guarantee that you will NOT get a second shot! If you put the bullet where it needs to go, the bear will run, but won't run very far. Usually, but not all the time, you will get the "death" moan. Have fun! The bears are starting to hit the bait up here in Alaska, so the fun will be starting soon!

Doc and Boreal,

I will back up a bit and agree nearly all RN bullets have lead tips, and they are suppose to expand. I just personally don't expect them to open as much as a hollow point design.

It's also very true that bear hides soak up much of the blood. I still however prefer an exit wound.

As has been experienced and shared here, I've seen'em die both ways (exit wound, and no exit wound) and as always, proper placement seems to rule again.

Good luck on your hunt.

In my opinion go with the partitions ot Barnes. I feel that the bullet you use should be able to break any bones it will encounter on the shots you are willing to make. So far I have never recovered a bullet from a black bear and have broken at least one bone on all. The part about two holes bleed better than one is good thinking. The key to good blood trails is in the shoulder shot, which by the way most of us New Brunswick guides will recomend. Not only do you break down part of his rugged structure, but when placing the bullet a little more forward for the shoulder you put the round into the heart not just the lungs. A "top of the heart" shot that I prefer will distroy the arteries leading off the heart and leave so much blood it's messy. Train yourself not to just aim at an area on the animal but to almost picture, at whatever angle, the exact organ/bone that you intend to hit with that shot. As a bow hunter though you most likely know that, as I have found most of them have actually studied the anatomy of the animal to a greater extent than the gun hunters we guide.

The weather is still a bit cool here this week so bring somethis that's comfortable enough to sit still for hours. The best part though, no bugs yet.

Good Luck

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
...I will be hunting with my bow primarily...

Tossing sticks at a Bear does have the potential to irritate it.

quote:

...one of my thoughts is to take a big 220 grain round nose ...some good ol 180 TSX ...180 Partitions, 200 Partitions, 168 TSX, Sierras, Speer, Hornady, Swift, ...

Hey Doc, Looks like any bullet you listed will work well on Black Bears in a 30-06.

Have killed and seen many others killed using Pull-down 7.62NATOs reloaded with Standard Grade 165gr Hornady SP Interlocks in M-14s. Same with the case opened to make a 358Win and loaded with either a 200gr RN or SP Hornady for use in a group of M99s.

We did not always get Exits, but I prefer an Exit everytime on everything and the Premiums would indeed give you a better chance at getting an Exit.

Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills to you.

Doc if it was me I would use the 200gr Accubond and not lose a seconds sleep over it. If that does not appeal to you then my next choice would be the 220 Partition. The 220 Partition has the highest SD in the Nosler bullet line of .331 that is even higher than a 416, 400gr Partition. I would say either of the two I mentioned will kill any bear Black or Brown.

Dakor, Hot Core, and NBHunter,

Thanks guys, and to everyone else.

As far as throwing sticks at bears, well, what can I say, I'm pretty good with a bow. Like I said, I'll have my rifle in the tree too.

I did check Accuweather.com for New Brunswick, the 15 day forecast. No bugs is much more important to me than staying warm. That's what all my camo is for. Bugs suck...literally.

I have absolutely no problem with a 200 Accubond. I took some of those to Maine last Sept. In fact, what I like about an Accubond is it opens rapidly like a BTip but holds together fairly well.

I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, NBHunter, let me know where you guide! I am always open to hunting with someone new. This is my first time in NB and these guides have excellent references. Their fee includes coming to get me at the Presque Isle, Moncton, or Fredericton airport which is a 2 hour drive.

I've shot black bears or seen them shot with:

.270 and 150gr NPT's
7RM and 175 NPT's
.303 and 180 gr PP
.30-06 and 165gr Hornady
7rm and 160gr X (coastal grizzly and black)
375 H&H 300gr NPT

and just recently I saw a gal use a .280 with factory 150gr Federals knock the shit out of a bear..

Whatever you use will probbaly work.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatehouse:
I've shot black bears with:

.270 and 150gr PT's
7RM and 175 PT's
.303 and 180 gr PP
.30-06 and 165gr Hornady
7rm and 160gr X
375 H&H 300gr PT

and just recently I saw a gal use a .280 with factory 150gr Federals knock the shit out of a bear..

Whatever you use will probbaly work.

I'm sure you're right. One of the guides I spoke with up in Alberta said that all he's used for the past 20+ years is a 270 with 150 grain CoreLokt bullets and hasn't lost a bear. Farthest shot, as related to me, was about 200 yards down a clearcut.