I am a future sheep hunter. I am an avid shooter with considerable long range shooting ability. Most shots on sheep, regardless of breed are fairly long, 300+ yards...sometimes to 500 yds. (rarely)

i am wondering what you fellows would recommend as far as brand,type of rifle, optics, caliber for sheep hunting? I have recently become intrigued with the 270 WSM winchester featherweight. would it be better to wait for a 6.5 WSM or a 25 WSM??

270 wsm, 270 winchester, 6X fixed objective under 40mm.

I will tell you about a rifle that I did put together back in the 70's. It was as a 300 Winchester magnum case with a 150 grain .277 caliber bullet a top of the case. It has great ballistics and had been very accurate over the years. My best loads have produced 1/2 groups at 100 yards. The velocity was at 3210fps.
SD=.279.......BC=.490

However there are several other calibers that can top this, such as the 7mmSTW, 300 Ultra mag can do close to 3500fps with a 165 grain bullet.

Did the sheep get bigger and smarter since Jack O'Connor's days? I think not, the hunters have meerly been a bit psyched out by all the magnum hu-bub. O'Connor did it with a .270, he did say there were probably better rifles, but it never failed him, in what he wrote anyway.
Yardbird

In 40 days I leave for my first ever sheep hunt.I'll be hunting Free Ranging Aoudad Rams in the mountains of West Texas.I've always dreamed of going on a sheep hunt and thought there was no better choice than the 270 Win.
But after rethinking this I have come the conclusion a 7mm Rem.Mag. would be a touch better choice simply due to a better slection of bullets.I'll be shooting 160gr.Partitions on this trip.I realize it's a Plain Jane caliber but in all honesty I believe its an exellent choice.
If I thought I had to have a Short Mag I'd look hard at 7mm,no offense but I see no real purpose in these new short mags but to each his own.

get you a remington 700 titanium, 260,270,7mm-08, or 30-06, it doesn't matter which caliber you use. personally the 260 shooting 120grain XLC's is the junk. you can use lighter for caliber bullets cause sheep are well sheep. weight will be around six pounds total including scope with short action calibers if you choose wisely on the scope part.

Not sure which sheep you are after but..

take a long hard look at teh 270 WSM. Push a 130 or 135 bullets real fast and you got a winner.

your feather weight rifle will do just fine..

as a guide ..do your self and your guide a favor..

get in shape, get in shape,,, walk up and down hills with all your gear on..and shoot, shoot , shoot... no sense waisting a hunt of a lifetime cause your not accurate to 300-400 yards...

The rifle should be light and in handy form for negotiating rock climbing, that to me means a 22 inch barrel max. You don't need big calibers for sheep so a standard caliber like the .270 winnie with 130 grain spitzers is ideal. I personally would use Jack O'Connor's favorite, the .270 winnie.

Sharps: Most shots on sheep are fairly long at 300 + yards? How do you figure that? If you can't get to within about 200 yds. or less on a sheep you shouldn't be shooting. All the sheep I've seen taken or shot at have been at 200 or less. Now for a rifle recommendation. As has been mentioned, I'd recommend a .270 Win with premium bullets & a scope not larger than about 2-7x. Assuming you're out in the wild (not some game farm) weight will be a factor. Personally, I like the Ruger mod.77 with a set of open sights. If something should happen to your scope, at least you have a chance with the open sights and your trip isn't totally ruined. It's amazing to me how so few hunters depend totally on a scope on an expensive hunt & have no open sights mounted on the rifle. Probably get flamed for this so I better get off for now. Bear in Fairbanks

From what I've learned, most shots on sheep are not that far...somewhere between 50 and 200 yds. Yes, there are some sheep taken at 500 yds, but most guys could probably get closer with a little more patience.

Anyway, I'm in the process of making my sheep rifle for next year. A Rem 700 in 308 Win. I'm putting on a Bansner light weight stock and it should come in around 7 lbs with scope. It will have iron sights for backup. I don't think a backup sight is all that important unless you are hunting alone. I don't plan on doing a sheep hunt by myself, but the rifle currently has them so I'm going to leave them on.

The 308 Win with 150 grain Sciroccos should make a fine sheep rifle.

I think a REm.M7 in 7mmRSUAM w/ a Leup. 3-9 comp. I would think you would end up w/ a rifle under 7#, w/ a 140gr NP @ 3100fps it would be a great ship/goat load. Nothing wrong w/ a .270, but if you are buying a new rifle for the mountains, why not go light as possible?

sharps-shooter,
A Rem Seven Titanium with a Leupold 3-9 compact ,chambered in .260 Rem with 140gr premium bullets will walk away from a .270 Win & won't tear up as much meat.
Been there,done that.
DAN

Guys,

I'll have to go along with the rest of the guys from Alaska. There may be a long shot from time to time but normally, if you're patient, you can get very close. Some of the clients shots this past season were 45 yds., 2 a little over a hundred, one at 170 or so, and the longest one was a bit over three hundred. The longest shot was on the biggest ram of the season and it was taken with a .257 Roberts. The only client that went home empty handed was shooting a big magmum and it was either incredibly bad luck or just plain couldn't handle the piece that caused several misses on several occasions. If you're worried about using a larger caliber due to bears in the area and aren't going to hunt bear along with sheep, don't worry as the guide will have enough gun to settle any bear problems that arise. Me? I shoot a .260Rem, handloads and it will do the job if I do mine.

Joe

My sheep rifle is a pre 64 270 cal shooting 130 gr coreloks scope leupold m8 6x.Had a 4x on it but
I just brought the 6x for my dall sheep hunt.First
sheep hunt,can't wait.

Two years ago I bought my this-is-the-last-gun-for-me. I wanted something that I thought could be hand-loaded to handle everything I wanted to hunt. I picked the 300 WSM.

It would be nice to be in the States and reload, but for now I'll go with a factory load. Pretty slim pickins last time I looked. I hope to Dall Sheep hunt in 2004. I was thrilled with the 300 WSM performance on Kudu and Gemsbok this year.

I figure maybe I've got two or three hard hunts left in me.

My 300 WSM is a Browning A-Bolt Medallion with a Leupold 6 x 18 scope.

I'm not troubled by the high magnification. I carry it on 6, but love the option of scrolling up to 18 if I have the time, or need to scrutinize a trophy closer. It saved me an error in the RSA this August.

We were putting a sneak on a nice bull kudu. When I got set for the shot I turned it to eighteen and noted that about 3" of one horn tip was missing, the ivory. When we saw another bull in the brush near him, we were able to make a good comparison and selected and shot the second bull.

I think will be the ultimate sheep hunting rifle for me.

I carry a custom 7mmstw built on a 700 stainless action.For a scope I use a 3x10x42 swarovski a-line.This package weighs just over 9lbs ready to go but I have not minded the extra pound or two it weighs over the lightweight rifles.If I was to buy a rifle for sheep hunting only it would be a remington titanium mountain rifle but would be re barreled to 25-06.

[ 12-14-2002, 04:37: Message edited by: stubblejumper ]

I've got to agree with Bear in Fairbanks, at least for hunting in Alaska. Most of the time you can get to around 200 yards if you have any stalking abilities. My rifle? Ruger No.1 RSI in 7x57 with a Leupold 1.5-5x on it. To me it is the perfect sheep rifle.

Some of ya know I am a long range hunter but I agreet hat sheep are taken at realativly short distances.. but every now nd again here in wyo the 400 yarder comes up. I would have to go the 270 or better yet the 270 wsm.. if you go with a light rifle recoil is always a concern. I think the 270wsm would be better in this situation than some of the biiger magnums or larger dia calibers.

if ya go with the 130-135 gr bullets you have a super flat shooterto 200 yards with less recoil.

IF and I said if.. you have teh funds Mark Banser makes a great sheep hunter rifle.. but so does Bobby Hart of hart barrels for a little less money too...

I have held them both and both come in around 6 lbs I memeory serves me correctly.

SHARPS:

LISTEN TO THE BOYS FROM ALASKA, THEY ARE SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE NOT ARTICLES FROM SOME WANNABE.

I COMPLETED THE GRAND SLAM A FEW YEARS BACK. TWO OF THE SHEEP I SHOT WITHOUT A GUIDE(ARZ AND IDAHO)
AND ONLY ONE SHEEP WAS SHOT AT A RANGE GREATER
THAN 200 YARDS.

I SHOT TWO OF THE SHEEP WITH A .270 AND TWO WITH
A .257 IMP. ALL WERE ONE SHOT KILLS. A 130 GR
NOSLER PARTATION WILL GO COMPLETELY THROUGH A
SHEEP.

WOODY

To paraphrase an old chesnut: "The "best" SHEEP RIFLE is whatever the "best" SHEEP HUNTER has in his hands!"

The average hunter I've met couldn't drag himself up a sheep mountain let alone a rifle!

Regardless, I doubt one could improve on a 270 Win and a 2x7 scope.

Brad

sharps-shooter; My reccomendation would be to use a rifle that you are intimately familiar with, provided it's light enough to haul around on a sheep hunt. The caliber is less important than your ability to perform when the time comes. JMHO -memtb

500 yards!!??? Be a hunter....get closer. use a 270 Winchester with a Leupold 2.5-8 power VXIII and you are set to 300 yards. Why fix what isn't broken?

I used my Remington 700 in 30/06 with a Leupold 2.5x8 VarXIII on my sheep hunt here in Colorado. Use the rifle you are most comfortable with. And just remember that sheep country is rough, the stock will get scratched & marred. A few times during my hunt I slipped on talus slopes & the rifle went down on the rocks. Those scratches are now memories!! Also it will rain, a composite stock maybe a good idea.

I've been hanging around sheep, and sheep hunters for a few years now. Like since the late 70's.
First, in many places, particularly desert sheep, you need to carry at least a 15X spotting scope and to count the annual rings on your animal. That means you must get closer than 200 yds.
Second, if the sheep see you first, you aren't getting within 500 yds. of them. The minute you try to stalk them, by ducking behind an intervening ridge, they move.
Third, they live in some high, rough country. I suggest you think light. In many places, the guy with the lightest sheep rifle gets the best sheep.
Last of all, they aren't hard to kill. Any deer cartriage will work fine. Save the long range rifles for Pronghorn. E

Jack O'Connor's sheep hunting mentor packed an old worn Winchester 1894 SRC in 25/35.When Jack asked about it,he said "Hell,give me a good glass and I'll hunt sheep with a 22,so long as it's light!".

FWIW.

Brian.

Well I'll throw my two bits in here too. I have never gone sheep hunting yet..although about 6 yrs ago I got drawn for non-trophy sheep in Alberta,couldn't make the trip.But if I do go sheep hunting in the future which is a real possibility I'd take along a rifle I don't have yet.It's a Sako L579 action barrelled to 7-08 Ackley with a 24" stainless #2 PacNor in a McMillan Hunter stock with a Leupold 2.5-8X in Sako rings.Should be under 8#'s all up.I think a 140 Partition out of this at 3000(hopefully) will do a lot.I hope to recieve this rifle from the gunsmith this month.

Most shots on sheep aren't as long as you seem to think, and I'll bet that most rams are taken inside of 200 yards.

Here's my choice: For sheep-only hunts, I'll take my light custom .270 that's based on a pre-64 Model 70 Winchester action with a 2.8-8X Leupold on top and a 22" barrel. This is made pretty much true to Jack O'Connor's recipe, except my rifle wears a fiberglass stock.

For mixed-bag hunts that include sheep on the menu, I'll take a Model 70 custom job in .300 Winchester with a 3.5-10X Leica, a 24" barrel, and a fiberglass stock. You don't need a .300 magnum for sheep, but it's nice for grizzly and moose.

AD

Sharps-shooter
Not to far from here I am sitting there is a trophy room, that belongs to a man and his wife who are friends of mine. In this room is a double grand slam of sheep that were taken by the woman. She hunted with her husband a great deal from the 50's to the 80's, but due to health problem's she can not do very much hunting now. The rifle that she used to take her double grandslam was a Savage 99 in 300 Savage, shooting 150 grain bullets. There are many other trophies in that room which fell to the same rifle, using heavier bullets, from moose and grizzly bear to elk and many other smaller game animals. She was a crack shot and that was the most important factor in
her hunting accomplishments. I second the idea of the other poster that you use, a caliber that is adequate, and that you can shoot the best and I will add the most accurately. By the standards of today what she used was totally impotent and not reccommended, but the trophy room doesn't lie, and she hunted from Alaska to Canada and all over the US. DRBOB

I shot my Dall ram at about 125 yards with a pre 64, Win .270. Like others said, they aint hard to kill, any good whitetail cartridge is adequate.

Like others have also said, weight is a primary consideration. Sheep hunting is about 99.9% hoofing and climbing and 00.1% shooting. A couple extra pounds will take it's toll on you.

If I do it again, I'll take my lightweight little Ruger 77, .270 all weather rifle. It's probably a good pound or two lighter than the pre 64.

Sheep are not normally shot at long range in Alaska, Idaho or the the Audads in West Texas, usually around 100 to a max of 250 yards...

I have shot quite a few Audads in West Texas with a 30-30...mostly for a bar-b-que or some other festive ocassion...

A 250-3000 and up suits me fine...A 270 is about perfect and the full equal of a 7 mag.

Well I guess I'll through my two cents worth in. I don't think you have to be too worried about a long shot. You can put the sneek on them if you are good. It may take a while but it can be done. What about a 7mm-08. I have two really nice Dall Rams and both fell with a single shot from a 140 gr nosler bullistic tip. Both at about 200 yards.

Best of luck to you.

It's my opinion that the best sheep rifle is the one that you shoot the most. Typically this is the one that you will also shoot the best.

Any caliber from .243 on up will work fine. I have a Rem 700 BDL in .243 that has killed two desert rams. All shots with 95gr ballistic tips provided complete penetration on broadside shots ranging from 100 to 200 yds.

A light weight gun is always a plus but not a necessity.

The ram that we took this year scored 180 6/8"

You could go with one of the newer flashy Ultra Mags or such, but I wouldn't advise it unless you have the patience to learn it and shoot it well. Personally, anything over a 7mm Rem Mag and I start getting iffy, esp on long shooting sessions. The 7 Mag would be my choice. I would also settle for a .270 Win, .30-06, or .25-06 in that order. But sheep, at least the bighorns I get a chance to hunt, aren't huge and don't require artillery. Use the biggest you can comfortably shoot, but by God, don't think you need to lug around a howitzer.

Ray Atkinson,
Off Topic but are the Big Aoudad Rams good for eating too! I ask several guides at the Eastern Regional Sports Show in Harrisburg Pa. about that and they all said to the man that they weren't fit to eat.But you say you use them for barbeque,is that the rams,ewes or young.And how do you fix them?

Ray may have a technique that works. I sure don't.

My advice, take the ERSS guides word for it. A big Aoudad ram makes poor table fare.

A young one tastes like goat to me, but not necessarily a good goat.

Down here they have a technique for goat that might work for Aoudad, but I wouldn't waste my time finding out.

They use a large, two-level metal lined box. One level has coals, the other the meat. After about five hours of intense heat the meat falls off the bone. With enough wine or beer, and all the side dishes it makes a decent meal.

I think the technique was a lazy man's way of avoiding having to dig a pit, bury the goat, then dig him back up.

Goat is cheap here. As you drive from El Venado to Barquisimeto they are running all over the road. Boys have their stands set up. They usually have one or two goats hanging, and six or eight tied up for later.

You can buy a live one, have it slaughtered as you wait, and drive away with it for about $1.50.

Sheep hunting has been an obsessive passion to my family for many years. Between My father, brother Jack Jr. and myself we've put our share of rams on the wall.

My father has used a .338 win m70
for years on everything. Bit on the heavy side to carry but always nice to have in Griz country.
Jack Jr. prefers the .270 for nearly all the sheep hunting he has done. He just completed his super slam.

I've used my .300 win mag M70 for most of my sheep because that is what I had but now I use a nice win. featherweight chambered in 30-06. 150 grain nosler partition loads and it works great for sheep hunting. When your backpacking and walking and climbing great distances a light rifle is a real pleasure. It's amazing how much you notice a rifle that weighs 3 pounds less than the norm. Sheep hunters who are backpacking usually live on freeze dried food and other quik energy foods and if your really humping it you burn way more calories than the food you have can replace. Thus the appreciation for lighter everything.

I been fortunate to take 8 rams and the average distance has been 175 - 200 yards. Sheep hunting is an incredible experience. I wish it wasn't so expensive so more hunters could enjoy as well. But those of you who would like to have a mountain experience similar to sheep hunting may want to try Goat hunting. IMO goats are highly underated, are in most cases thousands of dollars less and I believe that a mountain goat can take more lead than ANY other NA game animal. I've seen and heard this repeatedly. BAAAAAAAAAA

I also will have to go along with the rest of the Alaskans and Mr. Atcheson. You don't need a cannon for sheep. I actually shot one at 35 paces with a Mod 7 FS in 308. On the other end of the spectrum I did shoot one at over 200 yd. with a 338 but it was a custom rifle that was feather light.

Get a light rifle in a caliber that you are comfortable with and don't worry about the REALLY long shots.

Sheep aren't that bright if you can keep out of sight you can stalk very close.

Sheep hunting is my #1 obsession and passion (to be fair, though, I haven't tried Cape Buffalo yet!)

I am fortunate to be a resident of BC so I can hunt RM Bighorn, Calif Bighorn, Dalls and Stones all with over the counter tags (well, the Dalls are mainly limited entry draw hunts).

Since no one has mentioned it yet, I will vote for the 6.5 Gibbs. I had one made specifically for sheep hunting and I love it. Can't think of any better cartridge for it, but then I am partial to 6.5's.

Turned out to be a lucky rifle too. Here is the sheep I bagged with it in '99. I still can't believe that's me in the picture!!



Canuck

I have been looking around at sheep rifles also and I think a ruger ultralight in 30-06 would be nice. I will also consider the weatherby ultralightweight or remington titanium both in 30-06 (of these two I think the rem is the better deal). My pre-64 featherweight .308 went with me in 1997, 2002 and will probably be the one I take in 2003. Other rifles I have taken are a rem 700 adl 270 win and a ruger m77 in .338 win (got my first sheep with the .338 when I was 16). My other sheep was with the 308.
NICE RAM CANUCK