Drummond saved me time here because his last post is exactly what I was going to say almost to the word! Thank you Sir!!!

Whether a tax expense or whatever it does not matter. You can have your opinion and I can have mine but the money is going to hit the ground for conservation. What is ethical to one is not ethical to another. It is a personal thing. I wish I was in the position to have that kind of money but I don't and I don't lose one minutes sleep about it. The people that did well in life and spend some money and get hammered for it. I am sure they are losing sleep about all the nay sayers hammering them on the internet. Give me a break. They are smart enough to be out making money while the rest of us are angry that they have the money to spend and vent by posting on the internet. Free enterprise; good on them.

quote:

Originally posted by LittleJoe:
Whether a tax expense or whatever it does not matter. You can have your opinion and I can have mine but the money is going to hit the ground for conservation. What is ethical to one is not ethical to another. It is a personal thing. I wish I was in the position to have that kind of money but I don't and I don't lose one minutes sleep about it. The people that did well in life and spend some money and get hammered for it. I am sure they are losing sleep about all the nay sayers hammering them on the internet. Give me a break. They are smart enough to be out making money while the rest of us are angry that they have the money to spend and vent by posting on the internet. Free enterprise; good on them.

BS! You haven't read this thread or lack reading comprehension!!! Which is it?

Maxart,
You might want to become a bit more informed. I was at DWR HQ this week with MDF and SFW and the topic of the Antelope Island tag revenue was discussed with some concern. The Antelope Island tag is completely divorced from the DWR, and the accounting for that money is not readily available. It goes into their general account and is not well tracked for use on the island, or for conservation efforts. Several water guzzlers were planned for the island, but reportedly have not been completed. Maybe they will be soon. With a little pressure from sportsmen looking over their shoulders the money probably will be properly allocated in the future.
Not that it matters, but I generally support a few of these high dollar auction tags. Utah has taken this concept to the extreme, and the program needs careful monitoring, and even reductions. Extending seasons is the biggest abuse of these programs. It fosters the unethical behavior by allowing these "hunts" to take place when no one else is in the field. The spotter and posse hunting behavior would be counter productive if the regular season was open at the same time.
Get educated. Don't stick your head in the sand, and don't believe me either, for that matter. Do you research. There is lots of hype about the altruistic motives of those involved in these types of hunts. Sometimes that is true, but certainly not always. And the tag brokers and groups set up to sell these hunts have their own agenda. If it was all about altruism, the DWR itself would be holding these auctions, but they don't want the hassle. That alone should be a red flag.
Bill

BTW, I ignore the poacher Jack-off Bold, and couldn't care less if he doesn't like what I have to say. A LEO that engages in poaching is the lowest form of life.

Hey Top Gun,
Why are you so angry all the time.
Take a deep breath and smile a little, you'll be happier in life.
Your allowed to have your opinion, but so are other people.
W

Topgun you are a regular troll that is for sure. It is quite obvious that you hate SFW and the Utah DWR which is fine. You are jealous of people with money; a fact by your hatred for those people. I am willing to bet you are an armchair quarterback that just likes to whine about every single organization that is out there but would never even think of starting one on your own; you know you would not have any support since you are so angry all the time. Grow up and quit being a troll.

Let me ask a question which may be obvious to some but not to me.

Why is it that these mule deer tags go for such a high amount relative to the price of the sheep tags? This surprises me.

Larry- For years it was sheep. Then it was elk. Now it is mule deer. Mature, high scoring mule deer are the fad at the moment and the easiest way to kill one is by doing so when they are congregated on the winter range. The only way to hunt the winter range is through governor's tags in a couple select states. Supply and demand I guess you could say. Similar to Truffles or Donkey Milk. The tax write-off doesn't hurt either.

Antelope Island is a little different than the Governor's tags, but provides a similar opportunity at extreme giant mule deer.

I'm sure you'll kill a solid ram on your hunt and have a great time. (Mind me asking which unit?)

Good question Larry. I know i got beat on the statewide bison tag. It went for over 2.5 times what it went for last year.
Last year I won the bidding on a MT goat tag that apparently went for higher than its ever gone.
I wish i could say lucky me.
There appears to be no rhyme or reason for how they go. Im glad we have the oppourtunity open for these tags And that it goes to conservation. .
Ill be back in the wonderfull state of Utah for the third year in a row this September utiluzing a couple of landowner tags .
Good luck,
W

Bill,
Thanks for the advise. just got off the phone with Mike Fouts the deputy director of the DWR and law inforcment,I asked him about this very thing and a couple of others and he say's that 90% aboslutly goes back to antelope Island , it has to ...its writen in the code and cannot go into a general fund. He says he is not sure what meeting you attended, he has never heared of it, but someone is very wrong here. Mike says the progaram is watched like a hawk and has to meet DWR's transparency standards, so there is no chance the money is not going directly into on the ground conservation. I am leaning towards believing him, over the facts you present here on this thread. He will e-mail a list of documents in the next couple of days that the public can go to and follow the money trail. I will send you those links when I get them.
I am tiered of the mud slinging here and won't be part of all the " I read on this blog on the internernet " fact misinformation. so I am done with this thread.
Thanks for the conversation...Max

quote:

BTW, I ignore the poacher Jack-off Bold, and couldn't care less if he doesn't like what I have to say. A LEO that engages in poaching is the lowest form of life.

The vast majority partake in more than poaching. They live the life of, "I am above the law" as I am the law! Don't let them get you down, they are no different than the rest of us, no matter what they think.

quote:

Originally posted by LittleJoe:
Topgun you are a regular troll that is for sure. It is quite obvious that you hate SFW and the Utah DWR which is fine. You are jealous of people with money; a fact by your hatred for those people. I am willing to bet you are an armchair quarterback that just likes to whine about every single organization that is out there but would never even think of starting one on your own; you know you would not have any support since you are so angry all the time. Grow up and quit being a troll.

You obviously don't even know what a troll is and seeing as you don't know me from a can of paint, don't tell me what I am! I have no problem with a guy spending his money on those auction tags and that's what you obviously can't comprehend. The problem I have is the ones we're talking about that aren't hunters, but rather are just shooters letting others do all the work for big money using unethical methods and it makes true hunting look bad. If you can't see that, then maybe you need to slow down and read everything that's posted! I think the overall guys that compose SFW are doing great work and are dedicated conservationists. It's the top few that I heartily dislike that are making a lot of money off the wildlife and are doing it by taking a lot of tags away from the average people that can't bid on them when they go to an auction. As far as the DWR, it looks like almost all the Utah hunters are saying that the DWR is in bed with SFW and the latter is running the show more than the DWR that is supposed to be working for all the people in that state. Finally, I probably belong to more organizations dedicated to hunting, the shooting sports, and conservation than you can count using all your fingers and toes!!! I'm also quite involved in several of them and do mentoring of kids and women to get more of them involved in hunting and the shooting sports. What have you done lately other than come on here and give me shit? PS: If you're the same littlejoe that posts on MM, then you damn well know what I stand for and against!

quote:

Originally posted by LittleJoe:
Topgun you are a regular troll that is for sure. It is quite obvious that you hate SFW and the Utah DWR which is fine. You are jealous of people with money; a fact by your hatred for those people. I am willing to bet you are an armchair quarterback that just likes to whine about every single organization that is out there but would never even think of starting one on your own; you know you would not have any support since you are so angry all the time. Grow up and quit being a troll.

Topgun, I will say you are not a troll. Bad on me. I am glad you are supporting groups even when we both don't agree with all they are doing. I don't frequent MM much anymore as it is just SFW and DWR bashing by mostly ignorant people. Sad. It was a good site and still can be.

I don't agree with all the groups either but still support more than I can count like yourself. Sadly most people support nothing and bitch the most.

2013 Convention "The Sheep Show ™" Breaks Records on all Fronts

Cody, Wyoming, USA. January 8, 2013 - With records broken for the highest amounts bid on auction for special permits, overall attendance, and funds raised for wildlife and other mission programs, the 2013 Wild Sheep Foundation Convention and Sporting Expo The Sheep Show™ held last week at the Grand Sierra Resort & Casino in Reno, Nevada lived up to its billing as the "Premier Mountain Hunting and Conservation Expo in the World!"

Since the very first Wyoming "Governor's Permit" for bighorn sheep was sold at the Sheep Show™ in 1980, the marketing and sale of special permits for state, tribal and provincial agencies has been a WSF marquee where more money is raised for wildlife conservation than at any other event of its kind. The four nightly auctions held last week were no different with six new World Record bids for special permits recorded.

•The Montana State Bighorn Sheep tag brought an incredible $480,000 when the gavel fell Friday night shattering the previous record of $300,000 set last year and also beating the all-time record bid of $405,000 for a bighorn sheep. The previous record was set in 1999 for the Alberta's Minister's Special License.
•The British Columbia's Minister's buyers choice permit sold for $275,000. Besting the previous record set last year of $250,000.
•Due to conservation efforts by New Mexico Game & Fish and organizations such as New Mexico WSF and WSF, a special New Mexico desert bighorn tag was offered for the first time and brought $180,000 equaling the $180,000 record bid for the New Mexico Rocky Mountain tag sold later Saturday night
•The Oregon Rocky Mountain bighorn permit brought $135,000 bettering the $130,000 previous record set in 2011.
•And the tag that started it all 33 years ago, the Wyoming bighorn permit brought $70,000 setting another record for that coveted permit.


Other notable sales included $150,000 for the Idaho bighorn permit; $120,000 for the New Mexico Big Game Enhancement Package; $64,000 for the Washington permit; $160,000 for the Arizona permit and $181,000 for the Alaska Chugach Dall's permit. In total more than $3.19 million was raised for wild sheep and wildlife through the sale of these and other special permits and more than $5 million was raised overall during the event for wildlife conservation efforts through North America and the world.

Equaling the enormity of the prices paid is the fact that 100% of the dollars raised for these permits are directed to state, provincial, tribal and WSF conservation initiatives to help "Put and Keep Sheep on the Mountain™."

While the special permits sales to many are the highlight of the annual WSF event, the defining moment for most of the WSF 2013 convention was when a USA Flag, which had flown over Bragram Airfield, Afghanistan, was sold to benefit the Wounded Warriors Outdoors Program brought $100,000 during the Saturday Grand Finale event.

The Sheep Show returns to Reno, January 22-25, 2014 for another record breaking event for wild sheep and wildlife conservation.

The Wild Sheep Foundation, formerly the Foundation for North American Wild Sheep (FNAWS,) was founded in 1977 by wild sheep conservationists and enthusiasts. With a membership of more than 5,500 worldwide and a chapter network in North America, WSF is the premier advocate for wild sheep, wild goats, other mountain wildlife, and their habitat. Since forming in 1977, the Wild Sheep Foundation and its chapters and affiliates have raised and expended more than $90 million on conservation, education and conservation advocacy programs in North America, Europe and Asia. These and other efforts have resulted in a four-fold increase in bighorn sheep populations in North America from their historic 1950-70s lows of ~17,000 to ~70,000 today.

For more information on the WSF Convention, visit www.wildsheepfoundation.org.
Telephone 307-527-6261 or 800 OK FNAWS. Email info@wildsheepfoundation.org.
Facebook.com/WildSheepFoundation. 720 Allen Avenue, Cody, Wyoming 82414 USA

llamapacker commenting on ethics? Wow.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
llamapacker commenting on ethics? Wow.

+1! How much money do you figure he still owes Nixon?

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
llamapacker commenting on ethics? Wow.

+1! How much money do you figure he still owes Nixon?

Is llamapacker the guy that never paid his trophy fees and claimed that Nixon "stole" his travelers checks or is that somebody else?

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
llamapacker commenting on ethics? Wow.

+1! How much money do you figure he still owes Nixon?

Is llamapacker the guy that never paid his trophy fees and claimed that Nixon "stole" his travelers checks or is that somebody else?

That would be the guy. If Nixon is such a thief, how come Aaron Nielsen is booking hunts for him?