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Was at the SFW convention in Salt Lake for this weekends auction, and a Utah deer tag sold for $ 310,000 and an Arizona mule deer sold for $ 240,000. A Wyoming Bighorn tag sold for $480,000 in Reno at the sheep show last week...Man I got to get a second and third job.  | ||
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I think it was the Montana sheep that went for 480,000 | |||
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Just stupid but..... ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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I wish I was a hard enough worker to buy one of those. Money towards conservation. | |||
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I bought the Rocky Mt Big Horn tag in Utah for a small fraction of that price. Still a lot of money but less than $100K. | |||
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3 Tags, A million dollars, that goes a long way towards conservation. Thank God we have people willing to pay for the future of wildlife. | |||
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That "hunt" on Antelope Island State Park for $310K should be a real challenge as most of the Utah residents around there refer to it as "their petting zoo"! That's about as bad as the big mulie that got wacked in December in the Colorado Gunnison Basin after a helicopter spotted it and relayed the information to a big ground crew paid by the weathy hunter. They then kept track of the buck until the big money "hunter" could get there and pull the trigger, LOL! There is now such an uproar over this kind of stuff happening with these high money tags that there are meetings being scheduled with the CDOW to put a stop to these long hunts where animals are being shot on the winter range using sorry tactics that are detrimental to hunting. That's exactly what happens when big money and greed get involved with the sport of hunting and turn it into a money making "industry"---Sad, very very sad!!! | |||
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Topgun I had not heard about that Gunnison Mule Deer. Where can I find out more about that hunt.? On the upside that IS a lot of money to further the budgets of wildlife management. | |||
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I'd like to see the so called do gooders and conservationist match the donations ! | |||
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Sorry... it was Montana were the sheep hunt was. My head is still spinning about how much money was raised. Regardless of how some of these hunts are conducted...all be it,not very sporting sometimes.. that is a ton of money that goes into consevation. Hats off to those guys that put their money were their mouth is. I bid on a couple of the bison hunts but they got passed my budget in a hurry. Maybe I'll win the lottery on the draws.  Max | |||
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***These guys don't give a rat's azz about conservation! All they're doing is using their wealth to get to the head of the line and buy tags that were taken from the average joe hunter pool, which makes the odds that much worse in the draws. You guys obviously aren't up on the BS that's involved with the tag give aways at the Utah Expo,so it would help if you knew what you were talking about before you post. If these guys cared so much about conservation, why don't they just donate to the cause? Nope, they have to get a year long tag, hire a goon squad using fixed wing aircraft and helicopters to find a big animal and chase down "their" trophy while they wait for the call to tell them the animal has been rounded up and is ready for the kill! That's exactly what's happening on many of these tags and IMHO anyone who condones it just because of the money involved has lost sight of what the sport of hunting is all about. It's just one more nail in the coffin for hunting as we know it! Snellstrom---Here is the link and the first post contains the article with just a few details of what went on. One of the MM members lives right where it all went down near Gunnison and saw the helicopter as it was being used to spot the buck. Then they radioed in to the "goon squad" on the ground who literally slept with it until the shooter could get there and kill it the next day. That was required so they didn't violate the law against using an aircraft to spot game the same day it's killed. The guy had been watching that buck on the winter range right in the same spot where they killed it for the last two winters. One of the main guys involved is Mike Brownlee, who has multiple convictions in WY for wildlife violations and is now up on two more for winter range violations that have nothing to do with this situation. http://www.monstermuleys.info/...CForumID6/24118.html | |||
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YEP Can anyone say "Spider bull" or "Posse hunting" | |||
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Thank You! That is the article that I referred to in my post, but I couldn't get just the article C/Pd for some reason and ended up putting the link up for the whole thread. | |||
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Some hunts are more "sporting" than others. It's just how it is. The problem that people here in Colorado have is when bounties are placed on an animals head and snowmobiles, atv's and even helicopters are used to find the animals. It leaves a sour taste in people's mouth. I like the Governers tag program but hate the "at any cost" attitude that comes with some of the hunters and "guides". It's a system that could do good and raise a bunch of money but I believe it needs some tweaking to make it better. Much of the attention is placed on the people that have the mule deer tag as they regularly wait for the deer to be pushed onto their winter range and are shot in deep snow. Post rut bucks and pregnant does are in their most vulnerable state at that time and this kind of pressure turns a lot of people off. The other problem I have with it is that 80% of the funds go back to the CPW, formerly DOW, and we've all seen that they can't balance a checkbook. They lost $32,400,000 in an "accounting error" and with other failed programs like BGAP that bleed money from the department I just don't trust that the funds are being used properly. | |||
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I agree 100% with those thoughts Sir! This type of "hunting" is spreading over a number of the western states and needs to be stopped some way, but how is the big question. This guy Denny Austad buys at least one very expensive tag every year and then gets people like the Mossback crew on as his "outfitter/guide". The outfitter then has a bunch of people go out until they find and sleep on the trophy animal until he can get there to shoot it. Please let me say that I have no problem with booking agents or legitimate outfitter/guide services. What we're talking about here though is more than stretching the limit on what an ethical outfit should be doing IMHO! PS: Only 32 million lost somewhere, huh? | |||
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I notice the article posted above makes mention of Mossback Outfitters. That is the same outfit that staked out the Spider Bull and went as far as running off other hunters from public land while they were waiting for their "hunter" to show up. Mossback Outfitters has been involved in several very questionable "hunts" for high profile trophy animals over the last decade. What they do isn't hunting. They post a death watch on a trophy animal until the man with the right amount of money comes along! By the way, here is a picture of the buck in question:  | |||
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Hey Joe, That posse hunting gets us guys in trouble ya know ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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That's Brownlee on the right holding onto the rack! With the big smiles thay all have you would think it was actually a hunt!!! | |||
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While there's room for discussion regarding the methods these guys use, I do believe your statement is not entirely true. This isn't a regular tag. It was never available to the general public through a draw or otherwise. It's a governors tag, donated specifically to generate funds for conservation. Even if it was a regular, or draw tag, would the regular priced tag fee that the state would make off that one tag in a draw go towards conservation? No. Admin fees, state pensions blah, blah, blah ... It is designed to go toward conservation, which everyone enjoys in the end. All the "Joe hunter pool" guys, who can't afford to donate thousands of dollars to conservation will benefit from the conservation that one guy pays for. His dollars insure that there are tags for the "Joe Hunter pool" in the future. This argument is leaving all the ethics aside. Let's stick to facts and leave the jealousy out of the conversation. | |||
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Here is the conundrum. Public land should be available for public hunters, no doubt. So, a Joe Public Hunter sees the Mossback crew and says, "I need to follow them! They always find big animals!" (Don't pretend this doesn't happen!) So the Joe Public Hunter is now using the "Tag Hunters" guides to locate game for him. Is that ok? Mossback guys say, "Scram!" Joe Public gets offended that he can't hunt the animal that Mossback has been working for for 3 weeks. I see the ethical dilemma here, but if you make the rules such that the "Tag Hunter" can't use a guide service to locate an animal, then, do you think they would pay the big $$$ for the tag? Unlikely. So, then a lot of money, that could have gone toward conservation is lost. Because, let's face it, more times than not, if you have the money to spend $250,000+ for the tag, you probably don't have the time or maybe not the ability to scout and/or hunt for a month. I can clearly see both sides of this argument. But, let's leave the jealousy and class warfare type of reasoning out of this and let these guys pay for the conservation that Joe Public can't afford. After all, if you want to put burdensome restraints on these tag hunters, it will be Joe Public and the wildlife that suffers in the end. | |||
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You mistake my concern about the questionable ethics with jealousy. My concern is the black eye this brings to the average hunter. I condone neither the actions of Mossback nor hunters that may infringe on Mossback by other hunters. But, the Spider Bull was well known in the area and there were a number of local hunters that stated Mossback employees intentionally kept the locals from a public area so they could not try for the bull. And then there is the question of using helos in the case of the mulie above. Multiple incidents of questionable behaviour is troubling to me. It may not be to you, but then you make a living out of guided hunters so I'm inclined be believe you're a little biased here. | |||
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OK, TIME TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT (AGAIN) ABOUT SOME OF THESE CLAIMS OF 'running other hunters off'. In no way am I a mossback apologist, nor do I have the funds to hunt with them if I chose to do so. What I can say, speaking from FIRST HAND experience, is that Doyle Moss and his outfit were completely different than you portrayed them during the hunt for the Spider Bull. I know, as I was there. I was one of the two non-residents who drew the archery tag during the year Denny Austad killed that bull. I encountered Doyle Moss and/or several of his guides on a couple different occasions while I was out hunting, and never had any problem with them at all. In fact, they were far more helpful and good sportsment than most of the other people we encountered on my hunt. If you are a regular on Monster Muleys or Bowsite, you might remember my story, as I gave daily reports and a few hundred people were following my hunt and commenting as it went along. In no way did they have the spider bull staked out, nor did they run anyone off. When Denny Austad missed the bull, it was on the mountain directly in front of where I was camped. When they killed it, out near the Dairy Trail, it was in open country where anyone could have taken the bull, and he shot it during the rifle season as things turned out. I'm not a Mossback defender, but I do have an issue with people who make statements such as you posted, when you're wrong and don't know what the hell actually went on during that hunt. I have a pretty good idea since I was there and hunting at the same time as they were, and in many of the same spots. The only thing Doyle Moss told me was that if I killed a bull, the spider bull or any other bull, and needed some help getting it out, to come to his camp and they'd come help me get it off the mountain. That was the sum total of 'interence' that I got from mossback. | |||
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Thanks DLS. It's nice to have some facts injected into this conversation. | |||
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Sorry PL, I did quote you, but, I wasn't talking about you. I saw the conversation headed in the "It ain't fair to avg. Joe" direction. My apologies. I am with you on the legality issues. I am not biased. Illegal is illegal and there is no room for it. If laws were broken, then the Game Dept should investigate and prosecute. On the same token, allegations are just that ... allegations. I don't put much stock in small town rumors and hearsay. There was a thread where a few guys had the same deer on their game camera, on different properties. Well, one guy shot it and everyone accused him of stealing "their deer". Unfortunately, I have seen that jealousy by the unsuccessful hunters tends to increase exponentially with the B&C score of an animal they were unable to take. It's human nature. After all, if these tag hunters were shooting 150" Mulies for $250,000 we would all write songs about them and name our kids after them. Tell me, what is the difference? Jealousy. That's the only difference. | |||
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If laws were broken, then let CDOW deal with them. From Nature's standpoint, these few animals will not be missed, the herds will survive. The fact that hundreds of thousands of $$$ go to the State Game and Fish departments is a good thing. I would not expect the auction money to get very high if the winner had to pick one general season to hunt in. Let's see, my $31 for a Colorado Resident Deer tag compared to the Governors Auction Tag, uhh, um, carry the 2, uh, well, that's alot of money! | |||
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And the truth shall set you free!!!! Thanks DLS. | |||
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I, myself, am not jealous of anybody! I'm ticked because of the unethical tactics that some of these people, Mike Brownleee, in particular, use to kill these animals strictly for the big money involved. The guy has multiple game law violations, got out of several more, and is in court now on at least one or two more counts of unlawful trespass and taking a quad on to closed public areas. It's all in the court records available on the internet, so please don't accuse me of slandering the guy! If Doyle associates with a person like that, I, and many others, think nothing better of him than the violator himself. When I spoke of tags being taken from the average guy I was not talking about the CO Governor tag and I'm sorry it was taken out of context. I was talking about the Utah tags that are taken out of Premium LE units against the wishes of most resident hunters. These wealthy guys are literally going to the head of the line and getting tags because of their wealth and that is not right IMHO. Sure the money may do a lot of good, but how much good does it do for hunting in general when the taking of those animals, whether it's 1 or 101, is done in an unethical manner and it's made known to the public. | |||
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If you want to hire doyle and use his technique that is that persons business. Is it ethical? Fair chase? My opinion no. Should they go in the book for some millionare, not really, wasn't fair chase. You put 20 to 30 trackers, spotters on an animal for 30 to 60 days, to follow it, watch it, literally sleep with it, call for a hunter to fly in, as soon as you have the animal tracked, patterned,basically cornerd, don't matter to me, but I don't think that is fair chase., Doyle and company belong in the same category as USO outfitters. It is all about the money. Yes I have met him, yes I have had dealings with him. | |||
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shawnmc---Speaking of another real fine, ethical guy, I wonder how good old George is doing! He's another real ethical dude the Feds caught using fixed wing aircraft to spot game and relay it to his goons on the ground. Did the Feds ever get his airplane that I believe was supposed to be confiscated as a part of those illegal activities that he got nailed on? | |||
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I beg to differ. If North American hunting continues on this current trajectory, then no amount of private money will be enough to hunt public land. Just look at last November's elections, if you doubt that. And there can be no doubt that the number of non-hunting/non-shooting Americans (already a majority) will continue to grow with the "advancement" of society. Do you think they'll be "friendly" towards hunting on public lands? Wendell, if there's any future in hunting, it does not lie with big daddy donors throwing $$$ at tags drummed up by big-time outfitters. It comes down to sheer numbers of hunters vs. non-hunters - make no mistake! What's the most effective preservation? Introduce 2 or 3 people to hunting. Simple as that. friar Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain. | |||
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Some years ago Arizona's Sherwin Scott who recently passed on spent over 1.1 million on a special tag in Alberta for a ram, first year didn't get one second time around was magic http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/1...eepkiller991117.html NRA Life Member, ILL Rifle Assoc Life Member, Navy | |||
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Spot on Wendell. I made some comments on another post about Randy Newberg and his TV show in that I don't like his message of "DIY hunters are the Real American Hunter". It smacks of jealousy and divides hunters into two camps, DIY and Guided. I do both from time to time just as many guys do. But back on point, there may be issues with how some of the Governer's tag hunts are being conducted, but they are not all that way. Most of the guys who can afford the tag actually do care about conservation. Of course, there are always some bad apples in the bunch and it only takes one or two to spoil it. If you look at how the jealousy argument is "not" working in helping the New Zealander's issues with getting heli-hunting stopped, one can see that this "haves vs have not's" division is counter productive. There will always be guys who have more, can do more, more often, and in a bigger way. But to label all men of means who hunt as not caring about conservation is disingenuous. I'm certainly not in the Governor's tag league by a long shot, but I know a couple of guys who are. And those fellows are very conservation minded; and they are serious hunters who would never cut corners in legalities or ethics just to put a big rack on the wall. Legitimate issues in the Governor's tag program should be taken on and corrected. Bringing jealously into the argument will likely cause the people in position to make effective changes less likely to listen to and stay focused on the legitimate complaints. That seems to be part of the problem with New Zealands HH issues. | |||
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Just another of the divisive issues segregating hunters into polarized groups. From what I have read and heard over the years since these type tags began being offered, is they have no bearing at all on the regular tags that are issued to the average hunter, but the money realized from the sale of these tags helps the Game Departments with programs that end up benefitting the average hunters in those states. If selling one tag at the prices they bring in those auctions helps the game departments in those states manage the game for the benefit of the average hunters in those states, I see nothing wrong with it. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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When I got out of college I went to work for Lee Anderson. At that time he was buying two Gov tags for sheep every year (in different states). I know he didn't shoot a California Bighorn one year because they couldn't find one big enough. The next year, he killed the state record California Bighorn. Of all the Gov permits sold every year, for every animal, how many times do we hear a legitimate issue of inappropriate behavior? Not too often. As Todd just said, "there are always some bad apples in the bunch and it only takes one or two to spoil it." Let's not contribute to this theory that the Gov tag buyers are in any way unethical. Capitalism works. If you pay enough, you can hunt the best areas too. Let's let these guys pay for the conservation. After all, if they are shooting world class animals on these tag hunts, it raises the value for the next years auction, all of which goes back to benefit the wildlife and "Joe Hunter's" chances. Personally, I can't see the downside. Looks like a win-win to me. | |||
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This issue has me more concerned with the class warfare aspects you see in this thread. I find so many valid reasons to dislike someone that I never consider how much money they have. | |||
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I have no problem with this tool and cash-strapped Game departments need to use whatever tools are in the box to fund wildlife management and conservation for the masses. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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Inappropriate and illegal are two different things. I hear of inappropriate behavior on these governer tag mule deer hunts all the time. What people need to realize is that inappropriate behavior isn't something that is limited to rich people with special tags. I see the general public do things every season that make me want to puke my guts out. If your an asshole you're gonna be an asshole regardless of your socioeconomic status It's a simple fix, the Governers tag season should start when the archery hunts start in August and run through the last day of 4th season west of 25 and the last day of the late plains hunt east of 25. Keep these clowns off of the wintering range when these deer are in their most vulnerable state. | |||
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WOW ! Was just saying alot of money was raised for Utah fish and wildlife. Sorry it bent some of you out of shape. And I do know what I am talking about, I know the going's on with some of these guys ...have been around these auctions for a long tome. I know all the stories about Denny Austad,and his money.Not a big fan of those guys either and the way they hunt.But some 2 million doallsrs was raised in 2 nights. I sat with the director and deputy director Greg sheehan and Mike Noel of Utah division of wildlife resources and law inforcment on Friday night and both were estatic about the amounts spent for consevation.Never heard them complain about the way Doyl Moss runs his business. Regardless of what you think of these Big Shots... the money coming into the cause of conservation is whats important. | |||
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