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scimitar horned oryx
14 July 2009, 07:56
sevenmagltd.scimitar horned oryx
Latest update: I was advised today that it is illegal to kill them as we speak. I will personally talk to "my source" tomorrow and try to sort this out. There has to be some confusion by someone because it has NOT been illegal to take them in the past and PERMITS have not been required in the past like red lechwe and arabian oryx. It sounds like we may be already leaking oil just waiting for the engine to blow!!!!! Stay tuned.
14 July 2009, 08:39
SevensYou would think there would be some sort of a gap between this law passing and coming into affect, especially since this is still relatively hot off the press.
14 July 2009, 10:14
GatogordoIt's not a law but a judicial interpretation of the application of the law.
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14 July 2009, 21:05
Sevensquote:
Originally posted by Gatogordo:
It's not a law but a judicial interpretation of the application of the law.
I'm not a lawyer, so bear with me, but wouldn't the precedent then still take a time period to come into affect or is it affective as soon as the gavel hits?
It seems like we would have heard more of an uproar about this, too.
14 July 2009, 22:39
sevenmagltd.Gato is right on this one, there appears that this is an interpretation and ruling of the existing law. The final ruling/hearing is next week and I don't know if anything will change.
Bottom line: I will not take any animals until the air is cleared on this issue. If the rule sticks, I will get the permits, take what animals I am allowed and sell the rest as live animals to someone else who wants to put up with the fed regulations.
I have said before, I will not dance around the law and whatever loopholes there might be. I will take the high road and do what is right.
Thanks to all that have pm me with questions and concerns. Also thanks to the guy who pointed me in the right direction.
15 July 2009, 18:28
Bob in TXPlease keep us posted.......and good luck!!
Bob
17 July 2009, 17:22
2th docPlease correct me if I'm in error but it really isn't that hard to apply for CITIES permit for an animal. At least it wasn't for a leopard I killed a few years ago and as I recall it only cost me as the hunter $100.
17 July 2009, 18:16
tiggertateThe fee for the paperwork is only a small part of the cost of taking a CITIES animal. The rest is buried in the trophy fee. I bet the trophy fee for leopard is a bit more than a Texas oryx.
In addition to the extra
risk of Federal prosecution for a real or imagined infraction, the landowner has extra admin burdens (not limited to significant census records and record keeping of causes of death and/or the storage of animal parts of naturally deceased animals) a landowner may be subject to periodic inspections of his property and the hunting records (imagine the consequences of a minor error if that inspector just happens to be a PETA member). IIRC, A federal agent has to be present to witness the taking of the animal. What if your oryx cross with gemsbock? Is that a CITIES animal now? Open to the interpretaion of that PETA member!
What if a poacher shoots one through the fence and the headless carcass is found during a routine inspection by a hostile anti-hunting agent? That sort of vandalism is common in South Texas, BTW. Especially where a new high fence shut out the local deer poachers. Who wants to get hauled into ferderal court over that?
"Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson.
17 July 2009, 20:22
Eland Slayerquote:
Originally posted by tiggertate:
The fee for the paperwork is only a small part of the cost of taking a CITIES animal. The rest is buried in the trophy fee. I bet the trophy fee for leopard is a bit more than a Texas oryx.
In addition to the extra risk of Federal prosecution for a real or imagined infraction, the landowner has extra admin burdens (not limited to significant census records and record keeping of causes of death and/or the storage of animal parts of naturally deceased animals) a landowner may be subject to periodic inspections of his property and the hunting records (imagine the consequences of a minor error if that inspector just happens to be a PETA member). IIRC, A federal agent has to be present to witness the taking of the animal. What if your oryx cross with gemsbock? Is that a CITIES animal now? Open to the interpretaion of that PETA member!
What if a poacher shoots one through the fence and the headless carcass is found during a routine inspection by a hostile anti-hunting agent? That sort of vandalism is common in South Texas, BTW. Especially where a new high fence shut out the local deer poachers. Who wants to get hauled into ferderal court over that?
As hard as it is to think about.....you've made some very good points tiggertate. This just plain sucks. Oryx have always been one of my favorite game animals and I wanted to raise some on a ranch someday, but if they stay "unexempted" from CITES I, then I'll just have to pass.....I think the red tape is too risky and too much of a pain in the ass.
17 July 2009, 22:10
tiggertateEland Slayer, I don't belive that what I outlined would apply to a private landowner that chose to have some for his personal viewing enjoyment. There would be no need if there was no commercial "taking" of the animals. But if a pissed-off neighbor or ex-employee reported you for spite, it would be sufficient probable cause to raid your ranch and seize meat from your freezers for DNA testing. That's where the hybrid issue scares me.
As far-fetched as that sounds, I worked closely with Corps of Engineers regulatory employees for years acquiring in-stream construction permits. Many told me 50 to 60 percent of their time was wasted investigating complaints real and imagined from private citizens against neighbors with whom they had a grudge match.
"Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson.
18 July 2009, 00:32
Eland SlayerWell by "raise them".....I meant for both viewing and hunting purposes, but that looks grim at best now.
Robert
If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy. Thomas Jefferson, 1802
29 July 2009, 17:35
Bob in TXThanks-great summary.
31 July 2009, 00:32
L. David Keith"HSUS and Friends of Animals are busy patting themselves on the back over their “victory” in the courts. Ironically, there is no victory for anyone. HSUS and Friends of Animals did not succeed in making hunting of scimitar-horned oryx, dama gazelle and addax illegal. They only succeeded in sabotaging an amazing conservation effort for these three species."
These "people" should be in a class all to themselves; Bottom Feeders!
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Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007
http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added
http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#926103994110 days in the Stormberg Mountains
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson
Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running......
"If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you."
25 October 2009, 21:13
RVL IIIAny update on this subject?
Robert
If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy. Thomas Jefferson, 1802
27 October 2009, 23:43
RANDERSONI shot one in Texas back in August. Indianhead Ranch is still booking hunts, as I am sure others are as well. My take is that the law/ruling has been held up for further review before being implemented.
28 October 2009, 08:18
M16A friend on mine and I whacked two of them about a month ago. The ruling has been appealed so until the appeal is heard they are still legal to hunt.
28 October 2009, 23:12
Outdoor WriterIn two weeks, I'm going to try shooting a maverick that is roaming on a small ranch near Uvalde. It supposedly moved in from somewhere else and has been hanging around for two months now. It has 36+" horns. Not huge but it's cheap at less than a 1/3 the price Indianhead charges.
I'm also going to attempt to kill a free-ranging decent whitetail buck since I have been assured I can hunt without sitting in a stand or over feeders.
Randerson,
How long are the horns on your oryx? It's a dandy, fer shure!
Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer"
29 October 2009, 04:28
RANDERSONTony, thank you. He ran 39.25 x 39 with bases just a tick over 6".
29 October 2009, 21:48
SteveGlquote:
Originally posted by RVL III:
Any update on this subject?
Thanks, Robert, for giving me the heads-up on this thread. I started a new one on Oryx populations here:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...3411043/m/2091085911Steve
