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Don't know if anyone has heard or cares but the Feds put the oryx on the CITIES I list. What this means is you will have to go through a lot of BS with the Feds to shoot one and its not worth it. We've raised oryx for 25 years and now it looks like we have no reason to keep them on the place. We've got more oryx than are left in Africa but the frigging animal rights group don't care, they have simply stopped the hunting of another animal. Get ready for a freezer sale of oryx!!! | ||
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I'm in, when do you want me there? xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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I will deal with the paper work, sign me up for a firesale. Founding member of the 7MM STW club Member of the Texas Cull Hunters Association | |||
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what was the value of the animal before the feds stuck their nose in your buisness? | |||
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Ravenr: I can't speak for the above poster, but in talking with a man who has guided for many scimitar "hunts", the going rate is/was somewhere between about $3000 to $5000 for the trophy fee, with most of them on the upper end of that levels, sometimes the amounts included a day or so of lodging and meals, sometimes not, it just depended on the individual ranches set up. Meat shots and damaged horned animals were considerably less, of course. I guess I'm not familiar enough with CITES, does it actually apply to exotics on ranches in Texas that are owned by the ranch owner under Texas law? xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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BTW after seeing some of the scimitar horned oryx behind a high fence on a ranch I was hunting hogs and axis on......beautiful animal, kind of cream colored with brown splashes and those long curving horns.......I did some research on them......they are nearly extinct in the wild, with probably less than 500 extant in their native habitat and there are at least 2500, and I've heard estimates north of 5000 in Texas. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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I had noticed something on another forum that said that it was proposed that they be placed on CITES but wasn't aware that it had actually occured. I assume from your post Sevenmagltd that it has been finalized? If so, that is indeed a travesty! If the greenies think they're rare now just wait until all the ranches get rid of them. I should know better, but I'm still dumbfounded by their ignorance  "....but to protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not of soundness of heart." Theodore Roosevelt | |||
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Does CITES regulate exotic animals outside their native range? Their very name (Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species) seem to indicate they deal with international concerns, primarily importation for commercial pusposes. Seems like that would only impact Texas exotic operations if they were seeking to import more animals. From their website:
This makes me wonder if it would require further national regulation (perhaps by the US Fish and Wildlife) to govern management here in the US. Oh yeah, if it does impact you directly, and you need to get rid of some, I'd love to send my wife to help you out. She thinks oryx and addax are grand animals and would love to hunt them! Just tryin' to help you know.  _____________________ A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend. | |||
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I need to clarify, these are scimitar horned oryx. The new law affects them and addax which we have both. CITIES does cover international but the lawsuit by the animal rights goons affects the exotics on ranches in Texas. The big question I have is WHEN the law takes affect and if I have time to liquidate the herd so I don't get caught with something I can't get rid of. We have sold our oryx in the past for $2500 over 40" and $2000 for those bulls under 40". Biggest killed was a bull at 46", several over 40". Cows have been sold at $1750 with many from 34"-45". Bottom line is, if you have to deal with the feds and get permits for everyone shot, file reports, have the feds showing up on the place, etc., it just ain't worth it! There is a very real possibility we will have a major firesale on these animals in the very near future. As soon as I find out the "closed door" dates I will post. | |||
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Awesome creatures! See them on my way to Rocksprings all the time. Wouldn't CITES only apply if you were exporting them? Think I'd be interested in the "fire sale" too. Where are you located sevenmagltd? Robert If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy. Thomas Jefferson, 1802 | |||
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Exotics are a huge business in Texas. I can't imagine how many ranches this will affect. Oryx will now go the way of the gaur. Several ranches had gaur in the past but as CITES put them on the list the animals are worth squat. Before they were worth a ton of money and as a result worth saving. | |||
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I would be interested in an addax and scimitar horned oryx if you need to do a firesale. Please let me know. Thanks, Greg | |||
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put me down as very interested also and my 2 cents worth,the feds are stickin the nose where it don't belong,again... | |||
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I guess what chaps my rear on this deal is we have been raising oryx for about 20 years and have a pretty decent herd. Overnight they become worthless or not worth much. I firmly believe this ruling and Obama becoming president is not a coincidence. This is just another payback to his cronies for helping him get elected. I'm scared to death what is next. If you aren't a member of SCI, NRA or whatever group you choose, you better get hooked up with someone who will stave off these animal rights goons for the next four years. | |||
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I'm about 2 hours west of Houston and an hour east of Austin, Texas. | |||
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It is my understanding that the Scimitar Horned Oryx has been listed on the CITES Appendix I list since 1975. Please explain what has changed and how this affects hunting them behind high fence in Texas? A final ruling was made in 2005. I thought hunting and breeding ranches were granted exceptions as necessary to the survival of the species? The Blackbuck Antelope would very likely be extinct today as well if they weren't brought to Texas. Stock for Texas has now been reintroduced back into the wild in their native habitats again. The Blackbucks were released into the wild in Texas in the 1930's and have thrived. They were also put on high fenced ranches later. Bob There is room for all of God's creatures....right next to the mashed potatoes. http://texaspredatorposse.ipbhost.com/   | |||
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The SCI release may answer your questions. The recent court ruling allows ESA exemptions but requires individual applciation and approval by the government, at least as I read it.
------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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Not that it really bothers me if I'm taking one for meat, but as I read it, that ruling is ALREADY in effect and taking one would be in violation of the Lacey Act (maybe, isn't that kind of the ruling law) or the EDS laws, whatever they might be. Brilliant judge, killing off 3 species with one ruling. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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+1 When does the government check on your CITES paperwork in a case like this? Animals from Africa are checked when they arrive at the customs area at an airport or port. When a hunter drives to a ranch in Texas, shoots one, and drives home in a vehicle (with the animal), when does the paperwork get checked? How do they know you even shot one? | |||
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If you choose to use a taxidermist, he would almost certainly require the proper paperwork. I've got a call in to Tx Parks and Wildlife now, no call back so far. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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The easy answer would be for Congress to amend the ESA.....fat chance of that happening. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Bob, the law has been in effect for several years, what has changed is those animals behind high fence(Texas) are no longer exempt from the paperwork requirements. Just for the record, you don't just shoot one of these animals, take it home and nowbody know. There may be some of that going on but NOT ME or anyone hunting on this ranch. I've kept my nose clean all my life and I'm not throwing my reputation away over this issue. If I've got time, I will clean house of these animals. If it is already in effect, I will do the required paperwork and get rid of them all at one time for whatever they bring. Gato, good luck on getting someone from Parks to call you back. This is a federal issue, they don't give a rat's about federal stuff unless they can make a big bust. I will give them no reason to make a big bust on this place, rest assured......but please post if you do get a response. Thanks | |||
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Sevenmagltd – I’m just an average guy from California and I have no idea how this stuff works. Does the Government (Federal, State, Local) know how many of these animals you have on your property? Do you have to keep them up-to-date on the numbers (new births, deaths by hunters, accidents, or natural causes)? Is there a law requiring you to do this? | |||
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Thanks for the clarification guys. I was confused (not an unusual state for me). It appears that this could lead to their extinction since Texas game farms are about the only place they exist in sustainable numbers today. Bob There is room for all of God's creatures....right next to the mashed potatoes. http://texaspredatorposse.ipbhost.com/ | |||
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My friend in South Texas says he has until mid-August to shoot his herd legally. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Wow,I did not know they got into your Biz like that.Sucks to the max!!! | |||
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Boy, that doesn't leave much time. What does he do with them after that? Does it become illegal to possess them without "papers," or just illegal to trade in them without approval? Assuming this all sticks, the devaluation of these species is likely to spell their doom. These people are just plain stupid. I don't understand it... _____________________ A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend. | |||
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DesertRam, I think tiggertate meant to infer shoot them before the new gov. regulations go into effect. It'll still be legal to shoot them after Aug. It's just that the ranch owners will be subject to more beauracracy and paperwork (CITES). Not to mention the feds could enter their property at will. | |||
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OK...now where are the good big properties to hunt these animals between now and the deadline. Where do I sign up. This kind of thing really pisses me off. I hate to say this but the US has a way of ignoring CITES regs that should allow importation of some species (overruled by the US ESA) and embraces CITES when it suits the current political tide or agenda. Result on both counts is FEWER ANIMALS! | |||
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tendrams, I took a very nice 40" bull at http://www.recordbuck.com/foldout_introduction.htm last year. Check them out. Pancho LTC, USA, RET "Participating in a gun buy-back program because you think that criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbors have too many kids." Clint Eastwood Give me Liberty or give me Corona. | |||
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I'm not disputing what you friend said, but what is his source for that information? xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Tigger, I'm going to need more concrete evidence "than a friend said so" before I start dropping them but if your right that doesn't give me much time to clean house. I have an email in to John Jackson and will wait till I hear from him. If anyone has something in writing please post. NOW, I'm getting nervous!!!!!! Just a thought, but..... what if we get a half dozen oryx on the ground and send a photo to Washington to show them what their stupid law caused????? | |||
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7mag: I'm in for an oryx hunt if we can get it in before ESA day. As far as the pics of dead oryx goes, you would be sending them to the wrong people. It probably wouldn't affect the judge, his decision is made, but the villans are the plaintiffs, that is Humane Soc of US (what a joke) and Friends of Animals and all the pics would do for them is allow them to say something like "See, those nasty hunters are killing the last of an endangered species." Naturally, I'd like to have an SH oryx hunt on the cheap but I'd prefer not to have it under these circumstances (apparently hunters and land owners are the only ones who give a damn about the species), but your and our best chance for being allowed to keep a growing and managed population is for the Congress to pass an amendment to the ESA. Barring that, the USFW might could set up some kind of expedited permitting, but considering their anti-hunting bias, I wouldn't count on that. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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If you need an attorney call your own, guys. I'm not one; just passing time on the internet. I didn't get into a lengthy discussion about all the options with him. He's very anal about the Feds because he's a gun dealer too, and he tends to be very conservative about legal risks. He feels that the larger operations may be able to justify the exemption process, but hunters will have to be willing to pay more to cover the admin cost of getting permits. If they don't folks are stuck with a prolific breeder. He does not do enough Oryx volume to justify the hassle and intends to rid himself of an animal that is now competion for feed and space with his other animals. What he can't kill he can trap and release. This may get successfully appealed. If it doesn't, Oryx will breed until unsustainable numbers are trapped inside high fences and mysteriously "escape". They'll become a pest on free range and public land, too. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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.....a sad day indeed Wendell. That is one of the most ridiculous, inaccurate articles I've ever had the mispleasure of reading. You're right.....what a bunch of f**king idiots. Maybe we can keep fighting and get Congress to pass an amendment, but I'm not holding my breath. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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SevenMagLtd, Please put my name on the list for the firesale as well. I'd like to shoot one of the oryx. Sent you a PM. Thanks, ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | |||
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actually the article is accurate, every line of it. they are behind a high fence and they are endangered species. they(the hsus)use very emotional language to explain. but when the paperwork becomes more of a pain in the ass than the animal is worth, you can endanger a endangered species. are there any large tree huggin ranches in texas?that are growing endangered species? | |||
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seven, contact me and count me in. I'll most likely bring some friends. Sorry your caught in the middle of a lame ass ruling by the Snapper Head Society. I think if all of us spent the same amount of time writing our lawmakers over crap like this as we spend playing on the Internet, most of this would go away. What we ignore...we lose. And those bunny huggers will chisel away at everything we have in this country until we're dissolved into spineless, testicle-less, couch slugs. LDK Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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There are quite a few "boutique" ranches owned by people that don't hunt or allow hunting. They range from one or two hundred acres to many thousands. They have round-ups of excess exotic animals and sell them at auction to hunting ranches, for the most part. The auction price of the three species in question will fall to levels not commercially viable. OTOH, really large properties with very large herds may qualify for blanket permits to sell animals to the commercial game meat providers like Broken Arrow. They'll come in and take tractor trailer loads out under contract. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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