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Ethics are fine and dandy until you have missed 7 meals in a row. Travel a bit and you will see how your family's and region's ethics have no more purity than the next person's. A ton of your ethics would upset or confound people as you put a few miles between yourself and home. Is it ethical to serve up the mutt for dinner or that cow or that horse or any living creature? Go to Vietnam and India and Germany or a vegan grocer in Brooklyn to ask that question? Prostitution? You never dated buying flowers and dinners then had sex but did not marry that person? How was that never degrading as you moved on? Ethics? No thank you. I have my Code. Is flawed as I am human but I am not ignorant enough to think I know my Code is the one true path to ethical living. | |||
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We are discussing hunting conservation ethics more traditionaly referred to as sport hunting. I prefer hunting conservation as the term as it more accurate defines the ebpndevor and removes negative connotation the word sport has gained. You are free tho express your thoughts, but I do not see how your examples speak to the role or whether a higher level of ethical standards needs to be adopted by hunters through legislation. You bet, if starving in Vetnam hand me the dullest knife and point me to the headiest tied up Vetnamism tractor. But individuals shooting pen raised and released large exotic animals for animal size is not a starving Ethiopian with his Red Cross package seized by the war lord. I do not think I need to say it clear than I have on most threads are all (most) high fence areas as described no. But operations are using our willing to be lose with regulation to exist to the determinent of them all. I believe good high fenced outfitters can come up with a set of standards that allow them to exist and cull out pen raised kill kennel shoots. That is what this discussion on something like five threads has taught me. If they refuse to well the old rule prescribed by Boone and Crocket is no high fence. | |||
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Appreciate the civility in these discussions. It goes better without the name calling and other stuff. Again, my point is that ethics matter and drive the law. Personal ethics are fine. We all have them. However, in a society the is governed by the rule of law, ethics of the majority drive the law. My point using high fenced baited hunts for deer is a flashpoint for the ethical debate and dilemma. One camp sees no issue using enclosures, timed bait stations and camera to predict when deer arrive and leave in order to shoot them. The questions devolves to - how small is too small for the enclosure, or deer eat up the browse and need the food, or the hunting area is too thick to hunt deer. We can rationalize all we want. We can generate personal ethics as well that allow us to see this action as "ok". Personally, I see no reason for speed limits on interstate highways. My ethics tell me that I can drive as fast as I want. however, society decides otherwise hence speed laws. The reason for this is the ethics of me driving 125 mph is not safe for the majority and the choice is still available to me but now I obey the law to avoid bad consequences. This was imposed on drivers because we are not all safe drivers. You can use the same logic for drinking and driving. So it will go with hunting. If we do not rule ourselves, society will impose rules on us. Our demonstrated and articulated ethics matter when discussing our rules and standards. Again, B&C do a great job on this. SCI and DSC are catching up but not fast enough. I could care less if you want to shoot your deer over a baited area in an enclosure and believe this to be hunting. What I care about is the perception by society, who will make laws if we do not, that this is unethical, not fair and makes no sense. No one on this board hunts for survival or to feed your family. We do this for recreation and fun. Hence, as our society has changed, we must be able to articulate and defend our actions. In the case of my example of high fence, baited hunting - we cannot. Again, thanks for civility. Keep the discussion going. | |||
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My old man was a tough old dude who survived Normandy.He had a saying"If you don`t have something good to say about someone or something then STFU.It is a good creed to live by and will save you from a lot of hateful thoughts and deeds directed at yourself .I don`t need anyone to tell me how to hunt,fish or conduct my life and sure do not want anymore Government intrusion.It is really that simple.OB  | |||
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Agreed. But I'm sitting this one out; too much hypocrisy wafting through the air. Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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I don’t see hypocrisy as much as I see different opinions on about everything and in some ways or many ways that’s good There is definitely some types of killing everyone will agree on, but very few Mostly we just will differ Biggest thing I see is if we abide by every anti’s demand, we might as well bag it now. I for one will fight them on local level tooth and nail and if they ever stop hunting altogether I will become an outlaw As simple as that " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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My observation in regards to hypocrisy is not solely based on what has been stated in these recent threads only. Much of it amounts to the "do as I say, not as I do" variety. That said, I will not single out any person(s) so as to not have it taken as a personal attack. Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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