The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Another ethics question...Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Another ethics question... | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
The latest edition of Rifle magazine arrived a couple days ago. Surprise!!, the cover has a S&W AR-15 and a Ruger Mini-14. Dave Scovill has an article about the Winchester M7 Extreme Weather rifle. The focus is an Elk he shot on some Elk ranch. Big bull, but the tips of two tines were broken off. He says the Bull would have scored around 383+ if not busted. Story goes on that some guy named Roger Cook "repairs" antlers. That sent the red flags up here. He evidently collects sheds for a living. He sifted thru his collection and found some that would fit. They just happen to enhance the score, which is now 395. I think perhaps Customizes is a better word than repairs. Repair means to restore to original, and this rack can't ever have that done, those pieces are gone. We are going to stay away from the term "ethical", since some of you guys would fish with a DuPont spinner if you could. Would you do this and then not mention the custom work? Rich | ||
|
One of Us |
No, I wouldn't do that at all. | |||
|
One of Us |
Restore, enhance, upgrade to one's heart's desire but score as originally collected or not at all. . | |||
|
| One of Us |
I do not hunt to impress others. Leave as God intended. | |||
|
One of Us |
Who cares anymore. I know I don't. ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
|
One of Us |
I wouldn't want to do that, I would leave him the way he was when I shot him, it is part of the story and the memory, I wouldn't want to change it to look like everyone else's. I arrive at this conclusion after having a big hog mounted. He was a shade over 300 lbs with a huge head, but one lower tush was broken at the tip and the other was cracked. I let the taxidermist talk me into putting some artificial ones on it, I wish now I hadn't done it. I think the mount would be more interesting as he really was. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Leave it as it hit the ground. I hunt with a guy that fixes every broken point when he has them mounted, not my style. Perry | |||
|
| One of Us |
To me it would take away from the character of the rack. But if I would fix something like that I would have to tell the truth about it. That's just me. | |||
|
One of Us |
Only horn hunters would care.  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Dave Scovill just made the DO NOT HUNT list. Definitely someone I would not like to share a camp with. So I would absolutley not do this. Personally I am happy with what I shoot. The broken tines, etc, just add to the flavor of the hunt. Hunting is a game of inches, but those are the wrong kind of inches IMO. If I accidently broke the antlers after the fact, I may have them repaired. Never to enhance or create something that it was not. To me that is stupid vanity. | |||
|
| One of Us |
If say I would shoot a mt. goat and it fell and broke a horn, if I found the broken piece I would have it replaced. B&C measurers are good at picking up repaired or enhanced antlers. They won't get entered into B&C. Safari Club? Hell they will enter anything if the money is right.  465H&H | |||
|
| One of Us |
Think about mountain sheep with heavily broomed tips. I think that enhances the trophy and really tells a story about an old animal that's fought lots of battles. Well at least he can't register it with any of the trophy clubs. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I would want him as shot.If you are curious as to what it would look like unbroken,I am sure a picture could be altered. | |||
|
| one of us |
I had to do that with my Colorado Mountain Goat. It took about a 20 ft header and snapped off about 3 inches of one horn. But, the piece was laying right next to the goat. I had that repaired since it was the original horn and I knew the goat had both when I squeezed the trigger. But, about 7 years ago I had the chance to hunt whitetails with a buddy in northern PA. I took an 8 pt with a 19 inch spread on that hunt. Everyone claimed it was a really good buck from that area. He had 3 pts that had broke off about 3-4 inches above the main beam. I would never consider repairing that rack. That deer stayed the way it was when I pulled the trigger. I'm sure a good taxidermist could repair it, but I would know that it wasn't perfect when I shot it. So, I guess I can see both sides of the spectrum. But, circumstances would definately come into play for me. | |||
|
| One of Us |
To glue a hunk of horn back onto a rack is one thing, to snythesize what it might have been is entirely something else. I wouldn't do it and I think its a slippery slope to start down. Aim for the exit hole | |||
|
| one of us |
Completely agree.  I Killed a rather large 8-point one miserable cold morning - maybe 40deg. It was back inside a section of woods where we had blazed a trail to a small natural opening where the Deer seemed to gather. Grabbed ahold of the rack and moved it maybe one Deer length. Didn't have the Drag Stick with me. My buddy Don had family in getting ready for Christmas and told me to come get him and his 4-wheeler when I Killed him. Huuuummm. Sounded good about then, so I walk out to the truck. Go to Don's where I planned to just ride on back on the 4x4 by myself, drag the Deer up a tree, back the 4x4 under it and lower it onto the 4x4. Don said it would be much "quicker"  for him to come along and help me load the Deer. I had no idea his 4x4 would travel at Warp speed and the frigid cold 40deg air nearly ripped the skin off my hands.We finally got there after Don "rammed" a couple of trees on the way in. I'd gotten off after the initial jolt. We eventually got the BIG Boy loaded up and there really wasn't room for me anymore - which was fine. Told Don I'd walk out and might blast another one after he went roaring by them. Once I got back to his house, the 8-pointer was now a 7-pointer.  Apparently Don and the Buck had trouble dodging trees on the way out of the woods too.  NO WAY would I EVER have considered altering that Rack from the "8 minus 1" condition. It really added a kicker to the story - especially when Don had to tell people about it.  | |||
|
| One of Us |
There is ZERO integrity in doing something like that. So, I vote NO to doing it. Don | |||
|
one of us |
No, what I'd do is saw off both antlers at the base, have the guy who does "repairs" find some sheds that championed my elk by a substantial margin, then go tell everyone I killed it and it scored over 400. In fact, I'd probably have the repairman glue on a couple of extra tines to embelish even more. Then I'd pose in front of my mounted trophy in my house and hold a stick bow and hold a sign in front of me that said "8 yards" because I'm so stinking good at stalking. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
|
| one of us |
There is a local taxidermist here that specializes in repairs, and copies, he did the Lovstuen buck replica. One of the guys I work with, a bone hunter, is always having heads "touched up" by him. I wouldn't bother presonally, but what ever blows your skirt up... Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready Theodore Roosevelt | |||
|
one of us |
I would leave as shot. I can see the logic in repairing a sheep horn that has broken in a long fall however. | |||
|
| One of Us |
"An animal is not a B&C trophy and therefore should not be considered or identified as such until such trophy has been entered, verified, and accepted by the B&C Records Department." B&C has both a “Fair Chase Statement” and a “Hunter Ethics Code” which includes 6 “tenets”. Any unofficial B&C scoring outside of the Records Department is no more than fodder for reference and campfire discussions. If you are asking your "ethics question" with its focus on someone who would alter and embellish a trophy entry in a fraudulent attempt to have it accepted into the record books, then yes that would bring much dishonor to the hunter and to all those perpetrating the fraud. As such, it is nothing I would do. On the other hand, if an ethical hunter decides to restore a damaged personal trophy to a natural appearing undamaged state that results in an unofficial scoring change from a guestimated 383+plus to a measured 395, when such score is only used as fodder for reference with no attempt to falsely represent that animal as something it is not, then I see this as being completely different than the former. I would likely keep everything as it was unless it was later damaged, but I see no fraud in this later case if repairs are made above board. I do not have this article to read as of yet and therefore must go by your account, but based on your representation, I do not understand why you would associate Scovill and this elk to someone who would have embellished a trophy in an attempt to commit fraud, especially if Scovill "did mention" and document his alterations in writing. Seems like throwing mud. Best  | |||
|
| One of Us |
The hunter should do what he wants w/ HIS mount as long as he does not lie or hide the fact that the rack has been repaired,fixed,enhanced or whatever you want to call it. As for Dave Scovill, I would get great pleasure from sharing a camp w/ him. The man has been there and done it and probably knows more than most alive a/b guns, bullets and hunting. I have learned much from his his writing and appreciate the info greatly . | |||
|
one of us |
I don't care if someone does it, but for me no. My favorite buck was a one antlered buck that I shot my last year living in Nebraska. Ugly, and not a record for anything but it was mine! | |||
|
| One of Us |
That is the type of situation I was referring to. Or some other accident after the fact and you want to get a mount done. $h1t happens. If you are going to have that done to a critter you shoot. Why don't you just buy a premade trophy? That way you can get the exact score and features you want at the same time. I for one can care less about B&C, P&Y, SCI, or Buckmaster score. That is one the major issues wrong with hunting today and the No. 1 reason why the average person opposes hunting. Not the lunatic anti-hunters, the average person that finds bloodsport distasteful. | |||
|
One of Us |
Hell, why not shoot a doe or a cow and have a body shop bondo up some trophy antlers for it? If you're gonna mount it should look the way it did you pulled the trigger. If you were'nt proud of it then, you shouldn't have shot it. If a hunter is only looking for antlers he should just go pick them up off the ground in february. That's much easier than finding the ones that are still attached anyway. | |||
|
| One of Us |
GaryVA, I guess it might hinge on whether I then had it mounted, not before the "enhancement", but AFTER. Quote "the Bull's antlers were broken off above the fourth point, and I contacted a friend in Tucson. Arizona, who told me Roger Cook 'repaired' antlers. I asked Roger to see what he could do, and TWO YEARS LATER, after sifting through hundreds of shed Elk anlers, only a dozen or so had the same main beam diameter/circumference as the broken horns, they were repaired and mounted by______ ___________. Quote: "the guide estimated the old Bull WOULD have scored upwards of 383+ before the tops of the antlers were busted. Today, he runs upwards of 395+.". The Bull in the picture with the guide is a four by five, with several tines broken off. I have seen probably a hundred Bull Elk scored at my local taxidermy guy's shop. This Bull might, might have scored in the 315-320 class. So, we read that he actually had the Bull's horns enhanced, not repaired. I believe lost portions of horns cannot be estimate/repaired. He was upfront about it, but... I picked up a wolf kill a couple years ago that scored 394 and a bit. Was I tempted to mount them and claim them? No. It's just an interesting story, if the disclaimer is made to viewers. Guys who have posted here about breaking a horn or antler off at the time of the kill and having it put back; that is just that animal that fate damaged, and good fortune let you find and fix. Rich If I shot it, the mount and the picture of me with it when I killed it will look the same | |||
|
One of Us |
I shot a very nice 8-point whitetail about 10 years ago that had a freshly busted brow-tine from fighting. He was a beautiful buck with long tines.....(12" G2s).....so I had the taxidermist repair the broken brow-tine. Otherwise he would have looked odd. I would absolutely never "enhance" a trophy by adding anything that it never grew. However, I don't have a problem with someone repairing a broken point/horn if they knew it was there to begin with. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
|
| one of us |
I would consider having a freshly broken tine repaired. But not enhanced beyond what the corresponding, opposite tine had grown to be. No way, shape of form would I try to pass it off as a scoreable rack. Founder....the OTPG | |||
|
one of us |
Bingo. I don't give a rat's pazoo in regards to scores for any of my animals. In fact, I have no idea what any of them score since I've never put a tape to them other than to measure a spread or horn lenght. So whether I "repair" antlers as ES suggests above is irrelevant as to how the score might be affected. I would do it simply to make the critter look as close as possible to what it looked like before breaking part of the antler. The TX buck (lower antlers), which is now being mounted is a perfect example. The crabclaw on the one antler has a broken tip. Chris Krueger will be repairing it to as close as possible to what it was originally. Since the other antler has a similar crabclaw, getting the broken one close won't be a problem.   This Coues buck, which is on the back cover of my book, is another example. I killed it in 2001 but didn't get it mounted because of the broken main beam. Since then, I've killed another decent Coues buck and have decided to get a double pedestal mount done, just like the one I've having Chris do of the two TX bucks. BUT...I will have him repair the main beam so it matches the other side. Whether it's a 1/2-in. shorter or longer than what it was originally won't matter. As I said, score is meaningless to me.  Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
|
One of Us |
Why should any of us care...what one of us might do... This kinda like saying just how far do you push the edge of the envelope on your tax returns. Clearly, Scovil isn't trying to sneak anything by anybody. He published it in a magazine. I haven't read the article but it doesn't sound like he is trying to convince anybody he shot a 393 bull. Maybe he was looking to put the animal in his lodge so he wanted a "unmarred" specimen. He has already told everyone he had the tips replaced. If a bar owner buys a mount for his bar with a broken tine and then has it fixed is their something wrong with that. Many billfish today are 100% replicas because of the catch and release movement...do you think the mounts are 100% perfect replicas? If the guy wants to fix his antlers let him fix his antlers...nobody else's business to judge. Next thing I know the AR police are going to start handing out demerits for cluttered reloading benches. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Three of you missed the entire point. I made Dave the example of what is going on in the trophy hunting world right now. Is it ethical to do this to an animal you would have scored? If you shot the animal, as he lays there is the animal you chose to shoot. IMHO, you devalue both yourself and the animal if you "modify" it. Thanks to those who understand for posting. For a few of you that missed it; oh well. Rich | |||
|
| One of Us |
I understood....I didn't care. Your ethics, mine, you get my drift. ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
|
| One of Us |
Rich, Perhaps you missed the point of those that you think missed your point...oh well. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Yep, to each his own. But fake is fake. Rolex, breast implants, Leupold, Shelby Cobra etc. That's my point. You are not happy with what you shot, so you artificially improve it. I am not saying someone can't do it. Free country and their money. It helps define and form my perception of that individual and reveals their personality. | |||
|
| One of Us |
altering antlers/horns has nothing to do with ethics unless you include lying about the changes. Birmingham, Al | |||
|
| One of Us |
To make the mount appear to be something it is not is a form of deceit. Colour it however you wish. I've found that folks can justify most anything they want to do. I guess you could call it situational ethics. For that reason, I don't care what someone else does with their antlers or whatever. If they are so bereft of self worth as to do that sort of thing, they need all the help they can get anyway. Of course, the next step is to make up a mount with a boughten cape and plastic antlers and let it be representative of the xxxx you HOPED to shoot one day. Might as well be in for a pound and add a plaque telling how far away --lazered, of course-- it was when you (are gonna) shot it. Kewl huh?? No mucking around in the cold and damp; Just take the catalog and pick out your representative trophy. Kinda like some of the trophy game farms. Aim for the exit hole | |||
|
| One of Us |
Beeman, Serious question and not trying to be antagnostic. The writer has published that he had the mount repaired/altered. I don't see how that is deceit. What part of that do you find deceitful? If I have a rifle stock with a chip in it made by the world's most famous stockmaker who has since died and I find the best stock repairman on the planet and ask him to fix it and he spends two years looking for matching wood and he makes a mircale repair...is it "deceitful" for me to advertise the rifle for sale as being stocked by Mr. World's Greatest Stockmaker but having been repaired by Mr. X. Now with respect to this scenario, it might be fair to say that the 393 measurement is irrelevant because it is the measurement of an animal that never exisited. But I can't see how anything that was done was deceitful. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
one of us |
I don't have a problem with it, just don't understand. Every fair chase animal's a trophy, even the "lowly" cow elk. Be happy with it the way it is or don't shoot it. If crap happens after you shoot it, that's okay, it's part of the hunt. "Fix" it if you want. Me, I think I'd rather leave as is and remember (and tell) a good story. But then, I intentionally hunt does and cows, usually in preference to bucks and bulls, so I may not be the best one to offer up my two cents. _____________________ A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend. | |||
|
| One of Us |
mike, mine was pretty much a generic posture. I'm not knocking anyone for what they do. As I said earlier however how soon would someone "forget" to mention that the rack had been enhanced? Or synthesized? Or had been bought at a carport sale. I guess my problem, if indeed I have one, is more with enhanced trophies rather than repaired ones. I understand also that the subject has broadened from the original question but I think the original shooter (see, I can't even remember who it was)must have felt some qualms about enhancing/repairing the mount, otherwise he would not have mentioned it. As I said, IMO it is a slippery slope to start down. Maybe not in this instance but in where it may lead. I don't even know how to measure those things. I rate antlers as "gret bigguns", "damn nice", "not bad" and "aww I was meat huntin' and these eat better". Aim for the exit hole | |||
|
| One of Us |
Beeman,
+1 love itMike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Another ethics question...
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia