Have any of you guys seen MuleyCrazy? It is without a doubt the best publication out there if you really love HUGE mule deer. You can go to www.muleycrazy.com for more information. The upcoming issue will have one of our bucks on the cover, its a 234" hog from Sonora. You should check it out.

Drummond

The ignorance of some is hilarious to me. With all due respect sir, what would you have done, paid thousands upon thousands of dollars that is not in your bank account to be found not guilty of all charges or just paid a $1000 dollar fine to be done with the rediculous charges? I would have paid the grand to be finished with it as well. He was charged with not having a $10 guest pass so to speak to be on the reservation and the only reason the Lacey Act was even mentioned was because of the fact that this occured on the Navajo reservation. If it were not for that this would be the equilivent of a speeding ticket. The whole investigation was a JOKE! The feds spent close to a million dollars on this supposedly huge case and the best that they could do was get a $1000 fine and some probation. Come on, get real, the guy has had a target on his back for years because of his accomplishments and this is the best that they can do? Jealousy and ignorance will ruin this sport, Ryan has done more for Mule Deer by raising the awarness of what needs to be done in terms of the conservation and preservation of these magnificent animals with his magazine than any other organizations combined. I guess you cant expect all people(especially somebody from VA) to know the facts but I would hope that sportsmen and women as a whole would do their best to look at exactly what happened before trying to know what they are talking about and running their mouth. If you have any questions about what happened why dont you just call Ryan and ask him, he'll tell you, he has nothing to hide.



Drummond

Yes. It rocks!!! Great pics, great stories, no BS!!..sakofan..I need to reup my subscription. Thanks for reminding me!!

Isn't that the magazine which Ryan Hatch runs? Considering that he was sentenced by the feds in relation to the illegal harvest of mule deer in AZ, why would you guys pay for his stuff? He used to be in the Eastmans magazine all the time and after this incident, I stopped subscribing. I also wouldn't support others after they have been proven guilty or pleaded so in court. Here is a link to refresh everyone on what happened.
http://www.fwoa.org/news/fwoanws29a.html

Drummond, thanks for clearing that up. I didnt know ALL the facts of the "big case", but knew it was petty BS.

Ryan Hatch is a good guy, as far as Iam concerned. His mag. has done more to enlighten hunters on mule deer than any mag. out there.

Everytime his name comes up, some one is there to throw him under the proverbial bus!! Iam not saying Snake Lover is cracking on him. Others have here on AR and other places.
I wouldnt support anything or anyone that was a poacher, or helped someone else poach a game animal. But, Ryan Hatch is one of the good guys. IMHO...sakofan..

You are calling me ingnorant? If it was "just a $10 guest pass" then why didn't Ryan have it? Maybe he was the ignorant one. The facts are that he accepted the fine, aka he is guilty of the crime, and therefore accepted the punishment. At the end of the day, all you have is your word and honor. If he felt he didn't want to fight for those things, then that was his choice to be made.

As to the investigation, it would appear you are ignorant of the facts. The facts are that the feds levied over $80K in fines and seized an airplane, so don't try and play this off as they spent a million and only got 1K out of it. I posted the link, at least you could have read it.

While I live in VA now, I lived in UT for quite a while, so I know of him. I can attest, I am not jealous of him - I would never want to have my name connected with illegal hunting. Perhaps because your client is attached to his magazine now, you are too close to the issue to remain objective.

I know all about the link you put up. You called Ryan out specifically so I responded specifically to Ryans case. As for my comment on ignorance I can only assume its ignorance due to the fact that you obviously dont know that the law he supposedly broke was not even listed in the Navajo proclamation that year as it was a "new" law, that being said I find it ignorant that you would call somebody out like you did for something as minor as that. I guarantee that if Ryan had unlimited funds as the Govt did he would have fought this through to the end but the fact of the matter is that everybody has to make decisions based on what is right for them and their families and in his case he chose to take a fine that is pennies on the dollar what he would have spent fighting this case(Lawyers are not cheap). If you cannot understand this then yes sir, you are ignorant. Not everybody has the luxury of deep pockets. As for how rediculous this case was, one of the other people mentioned was charged with taking compensation for "guiding" because he allowed the hunter to buy him a damn taco at Taco Bell after a hunt. Again, BS that no sportsman should have to put up with. The Govt was grasping for straws trying to prosecute these guys for petty little BS to try and save face. Yet another example of how our tax dollars get spent and you try to defend this? What a damn joke! Have any of your hunting buddies,or you yourself for that matter, been caught speeding because what Ryan was charged with was the equivilant of a speeding ticket. Oh wait, I forgot, you choose not to fraternize with hardened criminals. It must be nice having never made a mistake, what is it like? Also, could you please tell me what the view is like from atop your high horse?

Drummond

PS, your halo is a little crooked

As for me not being able to be objective I assure you that I am. I make my own decisions based on facts, not what another person wants me to believe. Ryan is a close friend and I appreciate everything he is doing to raise the awarness of the problems facing mule deer today. I feel bad that I have allowed this post to get away from the fact that he has put together the best publication on the market today for big mule deer. I should have known something like this would happen though, in my experiences anytime somebody is sucessful in anything, business, hunting, etc.. there is always one asshole in the bunch that wants to bring him down. Shame on me for letting this happen!

Drummond

I have never stated the govt uses my money or anyone else's in the best of methods. However, the fact is Ryan Hatch was convicted of a criminal violation related to the taking of a mule deer on the Navajo Indian Reservation in 1997. HE ACCEPTED THE PENALTY. Case strong or weak, doesn't matter now. To try and relate it to a "speeding ticket" is a pathetic analogy, in that a "speeding ticket" has nothing to do with the taking of a mule deer, unless you are running them down and shooting out of a truck, which for the record, I would also not support.

Am I on a high horse, no, though perhaps I have chosen the moral high ground in that I don't feel the need to support anyone who breaks game laws. By your logic, because Ryan has done good things for mule deer, he should be forgiven. Since you like analogies so well, I have a better one, more on point than your speeding analogy. Let's compare the scenario to that of a drug dealer. Dealer is arrested, but hey, he donated money to spruce up the kids playground, so cut him some slack and still give him your money because he is drawing attention to the challenges of the kids. Hatch was convicted of a crime involving the same mule deer that he makes his living from, just as the drug dealer. Both subsequently helped the habitat of those resources which provide their income. Is it extreme? Possible. However, you want BS, there you go.

Sonora, if you want to support Hatch, that is your choice. I have made a choice not to because of his mistake. I also choose not to support Eastman's because of their relationship with him at the time. My initial post was to ask you why you would support someone that was convicted of crimes against wildlife that he supposedly loves. Outside of "he's a good guy" and "he's done a lot to support the wildlife", no other reasons have been provided. Therefore, I see no reason to turn my back on a choice made.

And to call me an asshole, why? Because the facts as I've laid them out don't support your position and my questions make you upset? Folks can disagree, we aren't all told to worship at the same alter. If you don't understand that and only want a club that thinks like Sonora, start your own BBS and post there.

So a guy does not buy a "friend" permit for less than $10 and you throw up some trash on the internet and make him out to be the anti-christ of mule deer hunting. That is ignorant! I feel that sportsmen should stand together when it comes to crap like this. He was charged with breaking a law that was not even listed in a proclamation. What gives? Its not like the man went out and knowingly committed a violation due to complete disregard for the law. It was a new rule that nobody knew about. As for the speeding ticket analogy its right on the money, what is on his record is the exact same as a speeding ticket for you or I. To compare what happened here to a drug dealer is a joke and I think you show your true colors. If you dont like him or dont like his magazine then dont read it but to go out of your way to look up a link to a web page, post it on the internet and try to bury a man is chicken shit! So what if he accepted the penalty, it takes deep pockets to fight the govt and not everybody has the luxury of being able to do that. Sometimes doing the right thing for your family means swallowing your pride and not fighting every battle out to the end. Some people are just to boneheaded to figure that out. Ryan made an honest mistake, he had no idea that he needed a special permit to be with a friend on the reservation, he had hunted there for years and it was never required. If a person knowingly goes out and commits crimes against wildlife I feel the same as you do but what happened here was an honest mistake. If your hate for Ryan or people like him is so great that you cannot see that then I truly feel sorry for you. Seriously, a freaking $10 permit and you trash a man like this and go out of your way to discourage others from looking at or purchasing his products and you think that I am going to believe that you are just "taking the moral high ground"? Come on, your not fooling anybody, you cant not like him just for that. Whats the real reason you took it upon yourself to trash him?
Good God, your in for a ton of heartache if you have kids, are you going to kick them out of the house and disown them if they make an honest mistake one day?

"And to call me an asshole, why? Because the facts as I've laid them out don't support your position and my questions make you upset? Folks can disagree, we aren't all told to worship at the same alter. If you don't understand that and only want a club that thinks like Sonora, start your own BBS and post there."

I call people like you assholes for trying to burn people or to try and discredit hard working peoples accomplishments. What you did was due to either jealousy or ignorance and possibly a combination of the two but I doubt very seriously that you did what you did because of some moral high ground. Moral high ground is being able to recognize mistakes and understanding that mistakes will happen. I cant stand people that act like they never make mistakes and throw in the "moral high ground" arguement when all else fails.

Drummond

I didn't take it upon myself to trash him. If I had wanted to trash him, then I would have started my own thread on this subject. Instead, I replied to your tread with a question. Don't let the facts get in the way of your obvious disdain in this matter. Any reasonable person should be able to see that difference.

Since you continue to champion your speeding analogy, let me try and point out to you the difference here. If you or I get a speeding ticket, we may both pay a small fine. So far, your analogy may work. However, when you or I get a speeding ticket, in additon to the fine, we don't receive 5 years probation, as Hatch did in this case. Probation is that thing that criminals get above and beyond the basic fine. That instead is more inline with the analogy I presented, which it is obvious from your post you disagree with. While you may consider this to be a minor infraction, I don't.

Finally, if you cannot accept that others have the conviction in which they live for and believe in supporting others who do the same, well, I am sorry for you. I again can affirm I am not jealous of him, nor am I ignorant of the facts of the case. Others may slam people becaue they "think" something isn't right - just check out the Chuck Adams post on this BBS from the past few weeks to see an example. Basic premise is if you shot something big, must have been taken from a game farm or under suspicion. I don't abide by that. I wait and give everyone the benefit of the doubt, let the evidence play out until their actions are proven to be in violation with the law. That is what I have done here. I may in the future change my mind and subscribe to his magazine or go back to Eastman's again. However, the only way the ordinary guy has to vote his conscience is with his dollar. And in this case, I am not buying.

Well Snake Lover, I do see and appreciate your view. And I hate a poacher as much as anyone. Was Ryan H. guilty of a crime?? OK, lets say yes.

I give him some slack because I have probably been guilty over the years of shooting game at or slightly after "legal" shooting hours. Still light enough to see though. Never been fined, or wrote up though. Probably could have. Most of my prey has been killed at or very near "legal" hunting hours. Probably most of the folks on this website have been guilty of this.

I do see your point. I dont think that Ryan's crime should keep him from the sport we all love. Or black balled by the hunting community. My opinion. He certainly has done more good, than alot of us that havent been fined. But, as I stated, probably could have. Not intentional. Wouldnt dream of shooting an animal out of season, and report all those who do...sakofan..

Quite apart from who did what, why and what their eternal punishment in hell should be, on the subject of Muley Crazy:

I took the advise of Sakofan (I think it was - one of our esteemed AR members in any event) and managed to subscribe to the mag. I like it very much. Makes me feel somewhat inadequate when I look at my own mule deer bucks, but such is life I guess. In any event, I thoroughly enjoy watching all those magnificent bucks every time the mag turns up on my doorstep - dreamtime! I'll be sure to keep my eyes peeled for "your" buck Drummond. As a matter of fact, there have been a couple of bucks from your area in there over the last year or so - not least in the issue that was dedicated to (Old) Mexico.

- mike

Sakofan, I commend you for seeing both sides of the coin, as well as respect your introspection on your own outings.

Ryan probably has done many good things for mule deer. As a whole, I think we as hunters don't get enough credit for our help of wildlife. Add up all the money spent on hunting related purchases - Licence fees, ammo which goes to Pittman Act, etc.. mean that some of our money spent is directed towards the wildlife. In addition, things like food and timber plots, CRP and set asside acres do wonderful things for the wildlife. Individually, it may not be as much as some and may be more than others, but together it does help.

Ryan's crime doesn't currently prevent him from hunting, which I agree he should be able to do. I am simply boycotting his products/attempt to make money from his hunting, just as I am the French for their lack of support of the US in Iraq. I don't think that is blackballing, rather personal choice, but if that's what you believe is blackballing, then I guess I am guilty.

Best of luck in your future trips afield.

I have sat down and really tried to look at this objectively and this is what I come away with. Is Ryan guilty of not having a companion permit? Yes. Even though it was a new law and not even listed in the proclomation if it was required and he did not have it then he is guilty. Is it fair? No, but its irrelavent. Should people think less of him for taking the minimal fine and probation? Absolutely not! I know how much Snake Lover hates the speeding traffic analogy but people in traffic court do this every day, they get caught speeding and take deferred adjudication and a lesser fine. This is basically probation because they have to follow the rules for a period of time before the violation is dropped from their record. This is, in principle, the exact same thing that Ryan did and I would be willing to bet that the majority of us, including Snake Lover, have done the same thing in the past. This does not make us bad people or even criminals for that matter. Nobody has trashed us that have done this nor should they. I have had this happen in the past where I was not at fault and I could have fought the ticket and probably had the ticket dismissed but I did not have the money to be able to hire an attorney to fight it. I hated having to swallow my pride and plead no contest but I saved time and money that I did not have. Ryan did the same thing and Snake Lover fails to see that this was not a blatant attempt to break any game laws or cut any corners in trying to help a friend and his Navajo guide harvest a big mule deer. I find it amusing to see somebody "take a stand" on the "moral high ground" against this issue but in the real world it would be impossible to hold anybody to these types of standards because everybody makes mistakes every day. I see through this arguement because if Snake Lover were to hold everybody to this standard he would have no friends, no hunting buddies, miserable relationships with family and co-workers among other things. To pick and choose what to condemn and what to allow is not our job, its the job of a higher power. I dont care if your a nun or an average person such as myself we all commit mistakes and have to learn from them.
Snake Lover, I think that you are making a mistake by judging a man in this way. I dont care if you dont like him or not, everyone of us that frequent this website have made mistakes in the past. And I find it dispecable that you ask why we feel the need to purchase products from this criminal. I have told you exactly what happened and you fail to realize that it was an HONEST mistake. The injustice here, in my opinion, is the fact that the Feds used all of this time and money to go after somebody that had not committed a crime, he committed a mistake. There are a lot of problems facing mule deer today and I feel that the real crime committed here was spending all the time and money to go after a person that did nothing to warrant this all out investigation. I find it embarrassing that our tax dollars were not actively at work trying to find and convict poachers that take away from all of us and I find it embarrasing that a fellow outdoorsman will try and crucify a man for making a mistake as if he has never made one himself. That is the real crime that was committed here. I am absolutely done with this type of crap so Snake Lover if you would like to go ahead and get the last word and try to justify your rediculous actions again go ahead.

Drummond

First off, Ryan's magazine is terrific and I wish him the best of luck with it... but he won't need the luck.

Snakelover, Intentionally or not... have you ever broken a law? Don't feel obligated to answer that question here because a typed response by somebody such as yourself has no merit.

Just look at yourself in the mirror and keep telling yourself that you could never, ever, possibly forget to purchase a license that is newly required by an Indian tribe that somehow forgot to put it in their regulations. I suppose you think he was trying to cheat the system and save an easy $10.

Snakelover, the world needs more people like you, moral and ethical prophets that we can all look up to and follow as role models in life.

Nobody gives a shit what products you boycott because of your ethical perfection and moral superiority.

After looking at the link that one of those responding to this thread posted, I'm left wondering where are the photos of all the illegally harvested mule deer bucks that the report implies were illegally harvested on the Navajo Indian Reservation by Ryan Hatch?

Fellas, I will continue to support Ryan and his magazine. Snake Lover has merely chose not to support Ryan or his magazine. Based on what he precieves to be an immoral hunting practice. Thats his privledge!! He is not an asshole for not supporting Ryan, and we are not assholes for supporting Ryan.

I respect his opinion. The reason that this thread has went so far down is, that Snake Lover has "had" to defend his position.

Huntsonora, I respect you, and appreciate all you do for hunters and mulies. Read miles of your knowledgeable threads over at Monster Mulie. That website, is how I found out about this one. I still proudly wear my MM shirts and display my MM sticker on the rear glass of my pick up.
But geez, let Snake Lover off the hook here.
I jump to defend Ryan all the time. Ive seen posts where Ryan was sighted a $10 fine all the way to "he had something to do with 9/11"!! (Exaggeration)

Snake Lover is choosing not to support Ryan, at least for now. Thats cool. He gave Ryan props earlier in the thread about his contributions to the mule deer population.

I said all that to say this....Both camps are right on this one. The pro Ryan and the non Ryan camp. Ryan did break the law, and was sighted. Fact.

Snake Lover, Huntsonora is defending his friend and I appreciate that. Iam sure you do too.

My position is this, "He without sin, cast the first stone"
Saw "Passion Of The Christ" last nite..I have already stated, that my hunting adventures have been close to the edge of first light and last light. Helped a friend butcher a doe that was shot to feed his basically starving family one winter when I was 16. The "father" up and left 8 kids to fend for themselves. Mom was off drunk somewhere. Not sure if he had a licence or not. Didnt ask. The doe didnt know either. So, I cant take the moral high ground on this issue. And few others, frankly.

Let's all agree that we love hunting with every fiber of our being, and continue to post good stuff. This thread looks like something out of the Optics forum...LOL...sakofan...God Bless!! Muley Crazy mag. is the best mag. Ive ever read!!

So snakeoil, You've broken the law just twice in your life and were cited both times. Wow, you must live in an area with very effective law enforcement. Having only exceeded a speed limit twice though, you must be one of the most cautious individuals on the roadways and I commend you for that.

..but I'd never give you a dime because you are a convicted criminal.

Greenhorn, if that is your opininion of me, then why do you turn around and buy the magazine from Hatch?

I have never asked you to BUY something from me. Therefore, to assume you would give me a dime is not something I would expect. However, Hatch has tried to sell you something AND YOU BOUGHT IT.

To recap, in one case you buy something from a criminal (as you put it) and don't the next. And yet I was the one attacked because I take a position which I retain. Gimme' a break!! Lack of conviction seems to be a common trait between you and HuntSonora.

For the sake of some clarity, the following is an excerpt from my IN THE FIELD column of March 2001 after the indictments in this case came from a grand jury. As quite readily seen, the original charges were a bit more serious than not having a "companion" permit. It's likely the permit charge was one of those listed as "four misdemeanor violations of the Lacey Act." -TONY



Seven Indicted



Charging them with numerous violations of the Airborne Hunting Act, Lacey Act and conspiracy to violate the Lacey Act, U. S. Attorney Jose' de Jesus Rivera and the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service have announced the indictment of several individuals by a federal grand jury in Phoenix, Ariz.



The indictments resulted from an investigation that began in 1998 and focused on a number of big-game guides who live in Utah, Arizona and New Mexico. The two-year-long investigation was a cooperative effort of the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service, the Arizona Game and Fish Department, and the Navajo Department of Fish and Wildlife. The three agencies concentrated on the unlawful use of aircraft prior to and during hunting season to locate deer and elk for hunting clients and the illegal guiding and hunting on the Navajo Indian Reservation, which is located in the northeast corner of Arizona.



The indictments charged writer/videographer Ryan Hatch of Kanab, Utah with 28 violations, including 21 violations of the Airborne Hunting Act relating to the use of aircraft to harass wildlife, specifically mule deer, bobcat, and coyotes. The remaining charges included one felony violation of the Lacey Act, two felony violations of conspiracy to violate the Lacey Act and four misdemeanor violations of the Lacey Act. According to the grand jury, Hatch hunted and guided illegally on the Navajo Indian Reservation, used aircraft prior to hunting and possessed antlers he collected within the confines of the Grand Canyon National Park.



The grand jury also indicted:

Kenneth Clint Heiber, Red Bluff, Calif., on one felony count of violating the Lacey Act, one felony count of conspiracy to violate the Lacey Act, and one misdemeanor of count of violating the Lacey Act.



Joseph Aggi, Chico, Calif., on one felony count of violating the Lacey Act, one felony count of conspiracy to violate the Lacey Act.



Howard Gilmore, Santa Barbara, Calif., on one felony count of conspiracy to violate the Lacey Act.



Joe Keller, Coalinga, Calif., on one misdemeanor count of violating the Lacey Act.



Robert Loring, Redding, Calif., on one misdemeanor count of violating the Lacey Act.



Sam Carpenter, Kanab, Utah, on one misdemeanor count of violating the Lacey Act.



Under the Federal Lacey Act, it is unlawful to transport, sell, receive, acquire or purchase wildlife that was taken, transported, possessed, or sold in violation of state, federal, or Indian tribal laws or regulations.



Under federal Airborne Hunting Act, it�s illegal to shoot or harass animals with an aircraft. It also prohibits a person on the ground, from taking or attempting to take wildlife by means, aid, or use of an aircraft.



A conviction under the Lacey Act carries a maximum penalty of five years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine. The maximum penalties for Airborne Hunting Act violations are one year in jail and a $100,000 fine. Any aircraft used in violation of the Airborne Hunting Act is subject to seizure and forfeiture. < !--color-->

Holy dogballs,you mean ryan was charged for more then just not having a 10 dollar vistor pass. Who'd have thought.

All of these magazines like eastmans are a fucking joke. Especially their "public land hunts". The marketing of these mags, is very smart.

We let you send in pictures of your animals,that supposedly were taken off of "public lands",along with whatever bullshit story you want to print up.Because you are a typical dumb fuck,that just wants your picture on something,we pay you little or nothing(so we don't have to pay for articles in our magazine,from well known writers) We then place it in our magazine and sell it to other people,that enjoy being lied to. The more we sell the more manufactures want to advertize with us,bringing in more money.

There will always be a market for these mags,because there will always be somebody stupid enough to believe the shit they read.

I could be wrong, which is not very likely, but it seems I remember Hatch being convicted of poaching muley's back in the '80's, which would be in addition to the conviction in '97. Huntsonora, maybe you could ask him and clarify things a bit for me.

It always seems that the ones jumping to the defense of "him" are guides or guys that portray themselves to be "friends" of his. Facts are that he uses a paraplane to scout, shed hunt,(which are not illegal) and in certain cases hunt and chase deer (which is illegal). The case against him had some legs because it made it a long ways into the prosecuting stages. He was not going to have to pay for the bulk of lawyers fees, as he had big money backing him up (ie some of his charged clients). Deals were cut for others that were charged and they all cut deals. I hear all the time of criminals cutting deals.



Ever noticed in some scenes of his videos the deer's tongue is lolling on the ground from exhaustion. Now I am no rocket scientist, (as some will verify in posts to come), but a mature buck has to run a long way to have itself so exhausted and allow itself to be filmed. He has been, and most likely is currently, under investigation for wildlife harrasment. And yes, he was convicted of poaching in the past, which can be forgiven in my mind, but may show a trend in the disrespect towards the animal.



BTW- I don't subscribe to Muley Crazy, but I have looked through it and it is a great magazine. Problem for me is I know too much about the person behind it to subscribe.

Ya Hatch's word on something,is on par with "the checks in the mail" and "I'll never cum in your mouth". He's no differant then the rest,he'll go to any length to kill trophy animals and get his name and pictures plastered

on everything.







The only good part about these assholes using power chutes,is they can't handle much wind,so they're grounded alot. The down side is,alot of legitimate hunters have begun using them to access landlocked public lands.



With any luck a few of these assholes will pull a John Denver and end up kissing the fuckin' ground.

I said that I would not post again on this subject but I find it absolutly repulsive to read things like that. I myself may have gone overboard in the way I said a few things but never in a million years can I imagine how much hate it takes to actually wish somebody dead.

Drummond Lindsey

Who said anything about hate. I've seen several people wreck power sails and ultra lites,who walked away.





You two assholes need to save the morals and ethics class for someone who gives a fuck.

FYI, John Denver is now singing in a choir accompanied by Harps.



You did mention that you hoped that they "will pull a John Denver" didn't you?



Chuck



P.S. "Ethics" are the reason this thread is where it is, and is the entire basis of your arguement.

It's amazing that so many know everything there is to know about Ryan Hatch, the "facts" and "all the details." I've seen it before, it's really just about sour grapes, jealousy, bullshit rumors, and crummy hunters, guides, and outfitters, that need to blame somebody or something for their lack of success.

Why would I defend Ryan? I don't know him well, or any specific details and facts about his past.. I do know that I ain't perfect and I don't know anybody personally that is. Snakeoil is a perfect example of the type of hypocrite that will criticize others... you know he has only broke the speed limit twice in his life.

I first spoke to Ryan in 1997 after drawing a good mule deer permit in NM. He was very kind and gave me a lot of information. Unfortunately, due to schedule conflicts, I wasn't able to go on the hunt. Last fall, one of my best friends drew a mule deer permit in AZ. I suggested that he contact Ryan, who again helped out immensely, talked on the phone with him several times, marked up maps, met in person and shared a number of hunting tips and places to look. My friend went to Arizona, had the hunt of his life, and ended up taking a 200" class mule deer. It wouldn't have happened without Ryan's generosity and help.

I've read all the media crap, for and against, spoke to him myself, and know others who are personal friends of Ryan's, so my opinion is not based on rumors or assumptions. I think he's a good guy who has a very enthusiastic passion for trophy mule deer hunting.

His success makes him a good target for the vicious and unsuccessful.

Up chuck,you need to worry about yourself. Several reliable sources claim,you killed a bull elk within a high fence enclosure. So spare me the ethics bullshit,you dumb fuck.

Ryans means of success are well documented both on film and within the legal system,which brought something like 28 indictments against him. The facts are in the indictments.

I don't give a fuck who you are,nobody consistantly kills trophy animals unless they hunt the shit out of private property or public land that isn't accessable to the general public. Even then in order to score year in and year out,they start breaking laws,like using aircraft to run animals. Only on the net do you have people that actually believe the innocence of hatch and dipshits like him.Anybody that has spent any time in the hunting industry, knows better then to believe assholes like hatch.

I really could careless what hatch does,just go lie to somebody else. The problem is these type of guys can't keep things to themselves and have to publish things. Thats the whole reason they do it,so they can brag and post pictures attached to bullshit stories. Hatch isn't alone,there's tons of guys like him,that never get caught. The biggest thing in favor of guys like hatch,is the GF in most states have little experience in criminal investigations and they step on their dicks alot. Things get thrown out of court all the time,because some asshole with a biology degree fucked up a criminal investigation.

I grabbed a mit full of photos out of my desk drawer so you could see a few more of my "fenced hunts"

If there's a picture of it,then it just has to be true.

Thanks upchuck. From now on,if there isn't a photo of a high fence in the back ground,then it wasn't killed in an enclosure.

You need to notify Boone and Crockett,and tell them from now on if there isn't a picture of a high fence in the back ground,then it has to be fair chase.

The most accurate picture you posted was of you and your buttbuddy handling your wood.

Why don't you please bring to light your information. You accuse me of high fenced hunting and apparently have proof. Put up or shut up!



Both you and I know you can't do eigther.



Oh, they put those barbed wire fences in those high enclosures for affect. It makses things seem a little more realistic and less staged.



Chuck

Some of the info must be true,its got you going pretty well.