quote:

Originally posted by Don Fischer:

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
I don't think I can get bear spray around here.

I can send you some

They got lot's of it at the Wal-Mart. Got your choice of 2 3/4" or 3"!

I like your thinking, Mr. Fischer!

Doc,
ohio law states you can only carry 1 firearm to hunt with. I suggest a shotgun. I personally use either a Remington 11-87 12 guage with the rifled barrel and a scope with 3" copper solid slugs. The other shotgun I use is a Remington Sp-10 10 guage with the federal 1 7/8 oz slugs. Let me know where you are at, I live in central ohio and would be happy to lend you a shotgun if you need it. PS-- got plenty of buckshot loads for varmits too! If you would like to go varmit hunting before deer season comes back in

That is very kind of you. I'm in Monroe, half way between Dayton and Cincinnati on I-75. My bud owns 2 shotguns and my brother has an 870. Thank you for the kind offer, but I think I can get covered.

I may just buy one anyway.

Doc, I haven't seen a better excuse to buy a new gun in quite a while, I think you better be 'safe' and have a new shotgun added to your repetoire immediately.

You've gotten some good responses on having a defensible postion if it comes to having to do the right thing and disappear those fur coated razor blades, I would follow it.....especially the CYA and disappearing part.

Good Luck, I hope ya'll can still harvest the deer you're after on that property.

Regards--Don

I owned a large male Rottie for several years, they're size and power is only exceeded by their intelligence. I've also encountered several as a Deputy Sheriff while on patrol. A Rott will bluff charge (on two occasions that I know of someone intruded in my fenced yard and "Rommel" somehow managed to NOT catch them, this from one of the most agile dogs I've ever seen). But like elephants you don't want to be there when one decides a bluff is not enough.

Yes a bad rottie is dangerous and a neglected bored rottie that's allowed to run loose is a problem actively looking for a place to happen. He doesn't have a place of his own or a job to spend his time with.

They're extremely trainable and Pepper spray will work on them just like any other dog, and once so "trained" they'll find another place to burn off excess energy.

I don't have any sympathy with the owner who has one or more dogs in the working class and who lets them run loose without supervision, just another clown who thinks it makes him look kewl without any work on his part. But I've also seen the fallout from someone shooting someone elses dog, I'd opt for a dose of bear spray and notify the proper authorities of the neglected and dangerous dogs intruding on your friend's property.

Here's a thought. Go to your local, friendly meth dealer and borrow one of his Pitbulls. Take him for a walk around your property. Not many Rotts will kick a Pits butt.

Doc,

First... DON'T threaten to kill her dogs! That's pure redneck stupidity that will surely come back to "bite you". Pun intended...

Second... Tell her that you're "concerned for her dogs safety" because you and your friends are hunting with guns over there.

Third... If you are forced to shoot one or both of her dogs in self defense don't be stupid and try to cover up what you did. Document everything and call the law.

She will have the moral high ground because you "killed her defensless dogs that wouldn't hurt a flea"... EXPECT her to take that stance and to get a BUNCH of sympathy from the press and the general public. Animal cruelty laws might brand you a "cruel killer" and you could very well have all your guns confiscated and get a free stay in the grey bar hotel until you're proven innocent here. This is no laughing matter.

If you are truly, in fact, forced to shoot one or both of her dogs you may end up in a legal quagmire that could cost you thousands of dollars in attorney fees to defend yourself in.

Think of how ANYTHING you do or say will look in court.

She will have every animal rights activist in the area on her side and they might very well provide her legal counsel that specializes in this sort of case at no cost to her.

Quit being angry and indignant and be smart and prepared. This is NOT the time to look like a "gun happy hunter that kills some poor lady's pet".

This is a legal quagmire, not an issue of showing her who's boss.

Be smart and start NOW creating a paper trail with local law enforcement.

$bob$

somthing to think about.
We have a law over here to protect livestock from dogs. If you can prove that a dog was "worrying" livestock the owner or sombody acting for him/her can legally shoot said dog,this happened 1/4 mile from my house about 5 years ago farmer had probs with 2 german sheps running loose but could never catch up to the owner anyway 2 fellas were pigeon shooting one day and guess what?!!! dogs go crazy and pin the sheep into a corner of the field (were the shooters are) anyway to cut a long story short 9 sheep died that day some drowned in a ditch some had to be put down by a vet and some died from dog bites oh and 2 dogs died,dog owner goes potty,she calls police they arrive and arrest her any ways the national news papers wouldn`t touch the story and the local only briefly ran it, she tried to sue people and it all went to nothing.
Go the legal route and you will have no reprocussions to worry about.
Me personally............we all have our own "personal space" and the moment they come into that space (30 metres!!!!!) let um have it
good luck and keep safe.
B

Doc,

A cheap, effective way to end the problem is Ammonia in a spray bottle or squirt gun. You don't have to make a direct hit with it either; just a shot in their general direction. I used to lead trail rides through rural areas in the South. A string of horses going by a trailer park will attract the entire pack; a quick squirt 10 feet in front of them & no more problems; they squeal like they have been shot & make tracks away, pronto. Usually once is all it takes to make a permanent impression.
Good luck,
Dave

quote:

Originally posted by LDHunter:
Doc,

First... DON'T threaten to kill her dogs! That's pure redneck stupidity that will surely come back to "bite you". Pun intended...

Second... Tell her that you're "concerned for her dogs safety" because you and your friends are hunting with guns over there.

Third... If you are forced to shoot one or both of her dogs in self defense don't be stupid and try to cover up what you did. Document everything and call the law.

She will have the moral high ground because you "killed her defensless dogs that wouldn't hurt a flea"... EXPECT her to take that stance and to get a BUNCH of sympathy from the press and the general public. Animal cruelty laws might brand you a "cruel killer" and you could very well have all your guns confiscated and get a free stay in the grey bar hotel until you're proven innocent here. This is no laughing matter.

If you are truly, in fact, forced to shoot one or both of her dogs you may end up in a legal quagmire that could cost you thousands of dollars in attorney fees to defend yourself in.

Think of how ANYTHING you do or say will look in court.

She will have every animal rights activist in the area on her side and they might very well provide her legal counsel that specializes in this sort of case at no cost to her.

Quit being angry and indignant and be smart and prepared. This is NOT the time to look like a "gun happy hunter that kills some poor lady's pet".

This is a legal quagmire, not an issue of showing her who's boss.

Be smart and start NOW creating a paper trail with local law enforcement.

$bob$

This post by LD Hunter is very well written and it bears repeating.

Once the paper trail has been correctly and repeatedly established in a non-threatening yet serious manner between yourself, law enforcement and the woman, and at the point law enforcement and the woman have done nothing (neither will do a damn thing), I'd drop the dog if it came on my property, period.

I hear banjos playing in the distance maybe from her porch. Sounds like white trash to me. Maybe her family tree doesn't have any limbs.

You are clearly dealing with a very stupid or very suit proof person or both. Letting known dangerous animals run loose like she is doing is asking for big trouble. Keep the judge's advice in mind and you might also want to consult a local attorney concerning just what rights you have in your specific local under the circumstances you describe. I can assure you that litigation is expensive even if you are sitting at the foot of the cross.

What I see is some guys with guns and a woman who does not like the hunters. Both of you have a lot of power. Just don't underestimate the power of a pet lover if you break the law.

Us gun guys would love to blast the bad animals but don't cut law enforcement out of the formula. They are there for the protection of all of us.

You would not want someone shooting yours would you?

As said before make a video. Show the video to the animal control and make a complaint. Keep a written history of everything. This is going to take some work.

Don't shoot anything unless it's game or it's really going to threaten your life.

I did call one of my attorney buds and ran this by him. Here's what he had to say:

In a case like this, if the dogs charged you and didn't attack, and at a later date they did the same thing and you did shoot them, a jury will not like the way this sounds. The plaintiff attorney would argue that point. The jury might side with them too because of this.

I countered with a similar scenario:

I told him that that argument doesn't hold water to me. No one can predict the future. That would be like saying, I'm never going to drive a car again for fear of getting into an accident that MIGHT happen. I've been rearended in the past. That hasn't prevented me from still driving.

Just because the dogs didn't follow through THIS time, doesn't mean that every charge is now a warning only and will never result in a committed attack on their part.

Ultimately, he advised that I file a report with game and fish, the county sheriff, and have the sheriff dept, serve her a warning.

My friend just emailed me and said that his mother is home and her dog was barking the other day, going nuts. Turns out Rottie twins were walking up her driveway towards her house. She was going to go to a doctors appt., but had to cancel for fear of getting to her car.

She is 76 years old.

This is just rediculous.

You have to be able to prove it. Sentiment, meaning the public will take the side of the dumb animals. The law will take the dogs side too unless you have video proof.

The best revenge is to live well. Get the video and then make the dog owner keep her dogs in control.

Don't do what your thinking as you may loose.

Steak (and razor blades) "ITS' WHATS FOR DINNER"

Doc, there's always the poison laced hamburger patty... impossible to prove that one.

Spoke with local sheriff deputy. After he put me on hold for a couple of minutes he stated that I cannot shoot the dog, even if it is off of it's property and on ours, unless it is actually attacking. ie., I have to wait until Mr. Chomps sinks his teeth into me before the trigger can be pulled. Otherwise, I could be liable for the cost of the dog.

He said that Rotts are definitely a "charging" breed but most will detour at the last moment, or just decide to charge you only to sniff you.

Whatever. Somehow I think it would be rather difficult to have one arm being knawed on and try and focus the other one on controlling the firearm to shoot. No thanks.

We're going to contact the owner and request that she keep the dogs up.

If you had shot them the FIRST time (like you should have!), this would all be a moot point!

Your story almost mirrors a situation that happened to my brother several years ago on our deer lease......right down to the muzzleloader and one rottweiler........that rottweiler is now dead...no second chances.....problem solved!

I don't trust any strange dog in the woods......if one so much as thinks about charging me......IT IS DEAD RIGHT THERE.....no ifs, ands or buts.

I still say that you should simply get some bear spray and paint those dogs orange anytime they come close to you. Police do the same thing, even shoot to kill, [long before they actually get attacked] by any dogs.

One shot with the spray and those dogs will become conditioned not to run up on people.

This whole story shows you how our country is running backwards these days (almost sounds like some of the goofy laws in Europe), where you can't actually protect yourself until it is almost to late to do so. I mean, here is good ol' Doc, strolling down the lane, trying to have a good time during deer season and he gets rushed by some (essentially) uncontrolled dogs. He then calls the police who basically tell him to suck it up and don't worry about it until he actually gets bitten. I wonder if the policeman Doc spoke with is some kind of animal behavior expert? I'll bet not.

I'll also bet that if that lady was breaking into your house and your dog bit her, a lawyer would find a way to sue you for her medical cost (and much more too) for not keeping your beast restrained while she rifled through your belongings.

Is it 12:00 somewhere yet?

Sounds like to me you need to do what they do in Alaska...... The 3 S's

Shoot
Shovel
Shut up

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
Spoke with local sheriff deputy. After he put me on hold for a couple of minutes he stated that I cannot shoot the dog, even if it is off of it's property and on ours, unless it is actually attacking. ie., I have to wait until Mr. Chomps sinks his teeth into me before the trigger can be pulled. Otherwise, I could be liable for the cost of the dog.

He said that Rotts are definitely a "charging" breed but most will detour at the last moment, or just decide to charge you only to sniff you.

Whatever. Somehow I think it would be rather difficult to have one arm being knawed on and try and focus the other one on controlling the firearm to shoot. No thanks.

We're going to contact the owner and request that she keep the dogs up.

So no police report filed? How about an injuction or cease & desist?

If your local law enforcement office won't even address the issue I think it would be time to talk to the news people. They're always happy to make things look dramatic! After all, You were just inoccently walking along your friends driveway when you were attacked by these ferocious dogs while the owner looked on.

It wouldn't be hard to leave enough of an enticing scent to have them follow you to the happy hunting grounds. Nate

doc,do yourself and everyone else a favor and give the dogs a dose of the bear spray
a;it will correct bad and dangerous behavior
b;the next "deer hunter" to walk by could be a child

If the cops wont even come out and take a report I would think the sherif dept would be liable. They have to come take a report even if its 2 days later just to cover their (police dept) ass.

Lets say you called them several times and they would not come out. Then the dog attacks and kills you. I would think your wife could sue the sheriff department for not responding to a dangerous situation and make a few million off the city or county

I have seen it time and time again, people have a problem and put WAY too much thought into it.

If it were me, I would not say a word and just make the problem go away. There are MANY ways to solve this problem...

Drum

An incident that happened here a couple months ago. An off duty police officer was jogging along a street inside the city limits and shot a lab dog and he said it was menacing, not attacking, so he shot in self defence. Said it had done it before. Seeing as he was a cop nothing was done about it. Case closed. It just proves it has nothing to do with who you are but what you are.

Rad

I wouldn't hesitate to shoot the bastards if they charged me, but I am a fan of aversion therapy. Get a bottle of bear spray and empty it on those dogs as many times as you get the chance. Make sure to draw them into the old ladies yard again and get them there too.

Video would be great.

Cheers,
Canuck

For your own protection, send the Sheriff a nice letter. Tell him you appreciated his time in taking your call on [date] regarding large aggressive dogs running lose and attacking you. Tell him you have had time to reflect on his statement that you should not be concerned since rots usually bluff charge, but that you are convinced by all the circumstances of the event in question that the only thing that stopped an attack was the owner showing up and calling the dogs off.

Get as many details of your conversation with the Sheriff in the letter as possible. And invite him politely to feel free to correct anything in terms of your discussion in writing to you that he feels may be inaccurate.

I would end with two things: that while you appreciate his direction not to shoot the animal unless an actual attack was taking place, you are very concerned that given the size and strength of these animals, it would not be possible to defend yourself to stop the attack. I would add that you believe there will come a time when the owner is not around to stop the beginning of an attack, and that it is not just you who have had ptoblems with these dogs. Tell him you understand the position he is in, but based on your experience with these animals and those of people who have had similar experiences, these animals are very likely to seriously injure of kill someone in the future. ENd by saying that if he needs ay affitional information from you to COMPLETE HIS REPORT, to call you at your designated number.

Send it fed x (someone has to sign a receipt) and I would even consider sending a copy to the County manager. The sheriff may not give a hoot about these dogs, but someone who has any business sense will think about the cost of getting sued by the parents of some deceased child.

My personal opinion is that the sheriff is full of it. Rotweillers generally don't know the meaning of the word bluff. Especially those exhibiting pack behavior. And when they consider more than their yard as their territory.

I guess I don't understand the problem. If I'm walking on my property and a dog runs at me, I kill it. The dog is dead, there's only one side to the story, mine.
The bluff charge is bullshit. You tell me how you can look into a Rottweilers eyes and tell if it is "bluff charging."
I'd file one complaint with the Sheriff, then next time they charged me on my property, I'd shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by TJ:
The bluff charge is bullshit.

I agree. I even laughed on the phone when he said that. With that kind of foresight, I should call that same deputy before every superbowl to place my bets based on his prediction. What a moron.

Here in Texas we have a little thing we like to call the 3 S's: Shoot, Shovel, and Shutup. When she asks what happened to the dogs, reply, "What dogs?"

OHIO LAW

§ 955.28 Dog may be killed for certain acts; owner liable for damages.
(A) Subject to divisions (A)(2) and (3) of section 955.261 [955.26.1] of the Revised Code, a dog that is chasing or approaching in a menacing fashion or apparent attitude of attack, that attempts to bite or otherwise endanger, or that kills or injures a person or a dog that chases, injures, or kills livestock, poultry, other domestic animal, or other animal, that is the property of another person, except a cat or another dog, can be killed at the time of that chasing, approaching, attempt, killing, or injury. If, in attempting to kill such a dog, a person wounds it, he is not liable to prosecution under the penal laws which punish cruelty to animals.

(B) The owner, keeper, or harborer of a dog is liable in damages for any injury, death, or loss to person or property that is caused by the dog, unless the injury, death, or loss was caused to the person or property of an individual who, at the time, was committing or attempting to commit a trespass or other criminal offense on the property of the owner, keeper, or harborer, or was committing or attempting to commit a criminal offense against any person, or was teasing, tormenting, or abusing the dog on the owner's, keeper's, or harborer's property.

HISTORY: RS §§ 4212-1, 4212-2; 93 v 128, 129; 94 v 118, §§ 1, 2; GC § 5838; 124 v 428; Bureau of Code Revision, 10-1-53; 142 v H 352. Eff 7-10-87.

Looks like Walker has the goodies.


Get them dogs SHOT.

quote:

Originally posted by Walker:
OHIO LAW

§ 955.28 Dog may be killed for certain acts; owner liable for damages.
(A) Subject to divisions (A)(2) and (3) of section 955.261 [955.26.1] of the Revised Code, a dog that is chasing or approaching in a menacing fashion or apparent attitude of attack, that attempts to bite or otherwise endanger, or that kills or injures a person or a dog that chases, injures, or kills livestock, poultry, other domestic animal, or other animal, that is the property of another person, except a cat or another dog, can be killed at the time of that chasing, approaching, attempt, killing, or injury. If, in attempting to kill such a dog, a person wounds it, he is not liable to prosecution under the penal laws which punish cruelty to animals.

(B) The owner, keeper, or harborer of a dog is liable in damages for any injury, death, or loss to person or property that is caused by the dog, unless the injury, death, or loss was caused to the person or property of an individual who, at the time, was committing or attempting to commit a trespass or other criminal offense on the property of the owner, keeper, or harborer, or was committing or attempting to commit a criminal offense against any person, or was teasing, tormenting, or abusing the dog on the owner's, keeper's, or harborer's property.

HISTORY: RS §§ 4212-1, 4212-2; 93 v 128, 129; 94 v 118, §§ 1, 2; GC § 5838; 124 v 428; Bureau of Code Revision, 10-1-53; 142 v H 352. Eff 7-10-87.

U DA MAN!!

What kind of search did you do for that? I'm going to send a copy to the Sheriff in Vinton County!

I'll be sending this to all involved, INCLUDING THAT IDIOT DOG OWNER.

If there is a next time, I guess you can all just imagine what will occur.

Walker thanks for doing that.
I think I mentioned a little research into the law long ago, but chest beating took precedence.

Doc, I think I just Googled "Ohio Leash law"

quote:

Originally posted by Argali:
Doc,

A cheap, effective way to end the problem is Ammonia in a spray bottle or squirt gun. You don't have to make a direct hit with it either; just a shot in their general direction. I used to lead trail rides through rural areas in the South. A string of horses going by a trailer park will attract the entire pack; a quick squirt 10 feet in front of them & no more problems; they squeal like they have been shot & make tracks away, pronto. Usually once is all it takes to make a permanent impression.
Good luck,
Dave

this is a good idea... We use ammonia in squirt bottles on our food containers.., when we camp in areas frequented by bears, in the back country here in Oregon...it works pretty well...