GREAT FALLS - A New York man has paid $300,000 for a license to hunt bighorn sheep in Montana this fall.

The special auction license was bought last month by James Hens of East Bern, N.Y., at the Wild Sheep Foundation convention in Reno, Nev.

With the license, Hens will be able to take a bighorn in any Montana sheep hunting district this fall.

The Fish, Wildlife and Parks commission authorizes several groups to auction big-game tags. The groups get 10 percent of the money and the rest goes to FWP for research and habitat improvement for the species.

The most ever paid for a bighorn sheep tag was $310,000 in 1994.

Damn! I was planning on using my life savings and selling my left leg to buy that tag, LOL! Must be nice to have that kind of money to hunt whatever you want!

IIRC, a good chunk of that money may be tax-deductible.

George

Wow! I guess if you can afford $300K for a sheep tag, you probably dont have to worry too much about money. Good luck to the..buyer

GeorgeS---A good chunk of that money IS tax deductible, but you have to have it before you can spend it and get the deduction, LOL!

what do you want to bet?
that he kills it in "the breaks"
I think the most paid was $303,000
for the Montana tag.

Most paid was 310,000. in 1994. if you have it,spend it on items you love to do or the government will get it. The breaks hold the only monster sheep now in Montana..

The problem with this is plain: at these dollar figures, none of your grandkids (and for that matter maybe not even your children) will be able to hunt sheep.

Yes, I know, in-state tags/licenses are another thing. But if hunting in N.A. as we know it is to survive, it can't become a game for the infinitely wealthy.

friar

It's one tag that goes back into game habitat enhancement dude. One tag isn't going to hurt anything as long as it stays like that!

And yet, Oakman points out a similar sale from 1994.

Believe what you will, but this happens more often than a person might think. And picturing the long-view, anytime something becomes a rich-man's game, that game is not long for the world.

Mind you, I'm not critiquing this individual for being wealthy. My suggestion is rather that, if you want to preserve our hunting tradition in the face of Peta & the anti-gun lobby, we'd better make damn sure that the common joe making 30,000k a year has an interest in the sport.

If he doesn't, we won't even be hunting whitetails!

friar

Outbid me by $50!!

I will bring more money next time...

Friarmeier,

Its quite the contrary as to your children's and grandchildren's chances to hunt sheep. Such auction hunts actually improve their chances! For many, many, years states and Canadian Provinces have made an extremely limited number of tags available for auction to conservation organizations such as Wild Sheep. The proceeds from these auctions are essentially all earmarked for habitat improvements, transplants, disease research, and other sheep related conservation efforts to increase the populations of wild sheep and improve hunting opportunities for everyone, not just the rich.

The good from these limited auction tags has led to improving the opportunity of the common guy to draw a coveted sheep tag. For the record, financially I'm not even close to being able to bid on one of those tags; but several years ago, after 21 years of applying, I did draw a Wyoming bighorn tag. At a reasonable cost, I was able to go on a hunt of a lifetime that might not have been possible had Wyoming's sheep population not increased.

Great post Ramhunter. Friar needs to read up a little bit on those tags because they are probably doing more for sheep than any other thing. I agree with him that we need the average Joe hunting and we must not let it go the way of Europe where the common man doesn't do much hunting. As long as these auctions are kept to a minimum where only the wealthy can buy one and there are raffle tags available for the common man to have a chance at a tag I see no problem with it. Many states out west are doing both now.

Topgun, I think thats B.S. The way a bureacrat thinks is ..." Gee we got $300,000.00 for one tag ,what can we get for a dozen" ? Oh. wait we've only got a dozen to allocate. To bad sportsman, we need the money. We have already became like Europe. Sportman's groups endorsing wolves, encouraging Gov't agencies to restrict access. You say the proceeds go to increase sheep populations. They don't increase sheep they increase the number of Bio's to study them, which in turn increases the size of the agency which will need more money to sustain the increase of the agency. Do you think they then won't sell more tags !!

Another way to look at this is that you can spend a lot less than $300,000 and hunt sheep in Mongolia, Russia, Iran, Pakistan, Canada, Alaska and Mexico and have every bit as much fun and an overall better adventure than shooting a ram in the breaks in Montana or wherever.

A Rocky Mountain or Desert Bighorn are fantastic trophies, but populations of either cannot get much bigger than they are currently due to habitat loss and disease from sheep and other domestics.

If they are really your dream, start applying in all of the auctions, raffles and draws in every state. Sooner or later you may draw a tag.

As to "our kids" never getting to hunt them, take the money you would spend on sheep hunt and go to New Zealand with your kids and hunt Tahr on foot and see how that compares.

Mountains - yes
Fantastic Scenery - yes
Friendly people - yes
Great experience - yes
Costly - NZ- not so much, North America - yes
4 star or 5 star accomodations - NZ - yes, North America - no
Opportunity to hunt other animals - NZ - yes, North America - maybe

I think you get my point.

Sheep hunting is a fantastic adventure but is out of reach for most that do not draw a tag. So why wait for a tag? Put in for tags, but while you are waiting go other places and see other cultures and animals...

To the degree that such funds are "re-invested" in wildlife management and the preservation of habitat, it's hard to make much of an argument one way or the other. I do agree that the austensible purpose of those monies is to do just that - increase the viability of the species & its environ. But it's hard to quantify just how effective such monies & efforts are.

Part of the problem is simply geography, which is makes Wild Sheep's work so much different than, say, Ducks Unlimited or Pheasants Forever. Also, the reproduction rates are, obviously, hundreds if not thousands fold less than bird (or even Whitetail) rates.

As to the point of habitat loss itself, I would wonder as to how much is actually "lost"? What kind of development are we talking about, since most (even all?) sheep habitat either starts at about 10,000 ft; or, if at higher and lower lattitudes, is in places so inaccessable it is difficult if not impossible to build houses or place infrastructure?

Lastly, with regard to management agencies themselves: don't kid yourselves - they are beaurocratic organizations and are subject to the same internal & external politics of any public or private body. As such, there is lots of ineffeciency, and even more "competition" for how dollars are allocated.

Yes, these hundred-thousand dollar tags may be earmarked on the front-end or for a dedicated line in next year's budget, but you all know how budgets work... "Well, since where have X over here, we can push a little more money to Y over there..."

At the end of the day, my question is still this: If sheep hunting - and by extension all hunting - is to survive, how can we recruit the next generation of hunters & conservationists? Personally, for all the money special tags generate, I consider them to be a drop in the bucket, whose greatest effect is a small ripple that causes most people (sportsmen & otherwise) to stop for a moment and say "Wow, $300,000...really?"

And that, dear friends, is what N.A. sheep hunting is becoming known for.

Best wishes to all of you,

friar

p.s. This becomes a different conversation if the winning bidder were to, say, "donate" the tag back to a charitable purpose or to a "special need." Then, hell, I'm all for making it a million dollar tag. But we all know far too well that whoever "bought" this tag did so with the express purpose of "bragging rights." And that, in my mind, raises a lot of questions.

BS huh, bentframe! You are obviously paying no, or little, attention to all the "on the ground" work that is being done by the states where these tags are being sold and the organizations that are helping with that work. Do a little research with all the sheep transplants, guzzlers that have been installed, etc. with that tag money. It is dedicated money that can't be used for anything other than that and the organizations involved with the animals are watching closely to see that the money is accounted for. There are many more sheep in new areas that can support them through transplants alone, so you are wrong! As far as groups endorsing wolves, I believe that when they are forced on us by the Feds under the ESA we need to work within the parameters that are set and try to follow the NMA as much as possible. You do know what the NMA is don't you? Those auction tags are set in numbers by law and will not be changed just on the whim of an F&G agency. There would undoubtedly be a huge outcry from sportsmen and the organizations doing the work if anything such as you described was attempted to greatly increase their numbers. I would also argue that access does need to be limited in some areas where people are using ATVs and motorbikes for no reason other than they are lazy slobs and don't want to walk any distance! You, Sir, need to do a lot of reading before you get into a debate about which you appear to know little before you speak!

Got no dog in the fight but here is something from the WSF website.

The Wild Sheep Foundation, formerly the Foundation for North American Wild Sheep (FNAWS,) was founded in 1977 by wild sheep conservationists and enthusiasts. With a membership of more than 8,000 worldwide and a chapter network in North America, WSF is the premier advocate for wild sheep, wild goats, other mountain wildlife, and their habitat. Since forming in 1977, the Wild Sheep Foundation and its chapters and affiliates have raised and expended more than $85 million on conservation, education and conservation advocacy programs in North America, Europe and Asia. These and other efforts have resulted in a five-fold increase in bighorn sheep populations in North America from their historic 1950-70s lows.
I also this is the list of items auctioned. I know Idaho donates a sheep hunt every year. Check out who else does.
http://www.wildsheepfoundation...n/specialpermits.pdf

I think it's fantastic - that not only does someone have that kind of money (good for them)- but that they spend it on hunting!! It can only help the sheep population and I hope next year that someone is fortunate enought to buy it for $400,000. It's a good thing folks. We should all as hunters be glad that someone loves hunting that much that he/she is willing to "donate" that kind of money to our cause.



Doug

DPS---I second that and also appreciate the post by 24mileboy backing up what I mentioned earlier. Thanks guys! I would also like to apologize for coming down on a member when I could have just stated fact and not been pissy! This is what I mentioned when I asked crudely if the member knew what NMA was! Please do a quick search and read what it's all about, but here is a brief capsule of what it represents:

The North American Model of Wildlife Conservation (NMA)

The North American Model of Wildlife Conservation is considered to be one the most successful conservation models in the world. It has its origins in 19th century conservation movements, the near extinction of several species of wildlife (including the American Bison) and the rise of sportsmen with the middle class. Beginning in the 1860s sportsmen began to organize and advocate for the preservation of wilderness areas and wildlife. The North American Model of Wildlife Conservation rests on two basic principles – fish and wildlife are for the non-commercial use of citizens, and should be managed such that they are available at optimum population levels forever. These core principles are elaborated upon in the seven major tenets of the model.

http://www.wildsheepfoundation...20Grant-In-Aid%20Upd

I'll eat a bit of crow...

In looking at the Grant-in-aid reports for their last two fiscal years, the Wild Sheep Foundation appears to be a robust & effecient private non-profit organization.

Their viewpoint is that disease is by far the largest factor in the decline of sheep populations, and in particular disease contracted from exposure to domestic sheep & goats. This seems very reasonable to me.

If they can win the PR side of their fundraising and conservation efforts, then I'll take back what I said about this business becoming only a "Rich-man's game". It will take a signifcant effort to do so - and there are two groups of people I think they should focus their efforts on: 1. The average in-state hunter and 2. Reasonably minded people who at the present are indifferent to hunting.

Now...where's my fork?!

friar

One more thought...

If WSF - and its benefactors - really wants some great PR, then how about donating some (even all!) of these special auction tags to U.S. military service personel.

This would be great exposure for the foundation, the patron would still get their ego stroked, and a truly deserving military person would get the trip of a lifetime!

Now, which one of you is on the WSF board and wants to make this happen?

friar

Great maybe next years winning bid will be $3,000,000.00. That real really help the 'average working stiff' to be able to hunt a sheep. WTF, and help the wsf. You gotta be a sheep freak to think $300,000.00 is a reasonable price for ANY sheep! To each his own, don't get it. And please none of 'the challenge of the hunt' crap or I'm a sheep hunter to the end BS! If I pay 300gs for a hunt ain't gonna be no hit or miss BS. Sorry but u'd really have to be a sheep nut to pay that. Like I said , don't get it. No offense intended.

I don't think anybody needs to "eat crow". I see both sides and think that there has to be some middle ground.

For instance, this year in CO the governers tag holder ended up shooting a collared buck on the wintering range. The collar was used to study mule deer behaviors and was funded by programs such as governers tags yet the guy that bought the tag this year killed the deer. Looks like money down the drain.

What I dislike about the governers tags is the further exploitation of wildlife by guys wanting "finders fees" of $10,000 or more. The problem is that when the seasons are over and the deer are the most visible and vulnerable you have guys pounding country hoping to find a deer worthy of a pay day. These deer need rest, they don't catch a break all year. Hell, Utah had to enact a damn shed season to keep people off the winter range

I think a system that added an extra $25 to every non resident tag and $10 to every resident tag and put everybody into the drawing for an equal chance at the tags would be more fair and could potentially raise more money. The additional money should go directly to conservation. I also feel that the governers tag should be a system that allowed a hunter to hunt in any unit that has a hunting season going on with any weapon. This way when the 4th season was over the season would be over for everybody and would cut down on pressure from people

I have quite a few more thoughts on the subject but it's late, I'm typing on my iPhone and I'm exhausted.

kingd---That would greatly help the average guy have a better chance at hunting sheep because you obviously haven't been reading what the money goes for! Habitat, man, habitat! I also don't like the fact that some of those Governors Tags are good for an entire year. IMO they should be good for any unit during the open seasons for that particular animal. Incidentally, Wyoming has had a much better shed law than Utah introduced and for a lot longer. The animals should definitely not be harrassed on their winter range and this deal of a guy hiring an outfitter like Mossback, who in turn hires a bunch of scouts to go and find a big animal to put the tag holder on sucks big time!!! That's killing, not hunting, but is the way some of these guys with lots of money like that guy Denny Austad that buys tags all over the west and hires Mossback to lead him around do it. He probably couldn't find his way out of a paper bag by himself, LOL!!!

My native Colorado always does an auction sheep tag and a raffle sheep tag. I'm pretty sure those 2 tags probably bring in more money than all the rest the sheep tags combined. When you consider they are going to issue the tags and shoot the rams anyways, this is a pretty good use of the resources.

They also do a raffle tag for Mtn Goat, Moose, Mule Deer and Elk. These 4 tags generate considerable income for the Division of Wildlife. Since the Division is funded by license sales, the more they bring in this way the less they have to raise tag fees across the board. Which means all hunters ultimately benefit from this type of tag sale.

At least that's how I see it. Feel free to disagree if you want to. I'm not going to go to a lot of effort to try and change your minds.

This is last years 5 govenors moose tags for Wyoming. I think the Gov. gets 20 total tags to give away as he sees fit. Top sheep tag goes for only about $50k. He has 5 of those at his disposal. They average less than the $50k.

1/29/2011 – Safari Club International – Reno, NV - $19,000

2/04/2011 – Mule Deer Foundation – Salt Lake City, UT - $17,000

2/12/2011 – Wild Sheep Foundation-Reno, NV – $21,000

3/04/2011 – Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation – Reno, NV – $27,000

3/26/2011 – Mule Deer Foundation – Central Coast Chapter (NAMF’s moose tag) – San Jose, CA – $27,000

How about a 1.1 million dollar ram
If I remember correctly he was the high bidder in the 1998 auction and did not get his ram, so he did it again the next drawing and finally got one.
www.canadiangeographic.ca/maga...2/SacrificialRam.asp
On the legal side, Sherwin Scott of Phoenix, Ariz., spent $1.1 million at auctions in 1998 and 1999 for a permit to hunt Alberta rams in special out-of-season ...

http://www.theoutdoorquest.com/new_page_15.htm

Think of it as a large donation with a sheep tag attached, because no sheep hunting opurtunity is really worth 300 grand.

quote:

Originally posted by friarmeier:
One more thought...

If WSF - and its benefactors - really wants some great PR, then how about donating some (even all!) of these special auction tags to U.S. military service personel.

This would be great exposure for the foundation, the patron would still get their ego stroked, and a truly deserving military person would get the trip of a lifetime!

Now, which one of you is on the WSF board and wants to make this happen?

friar

FYI--At the seep show this year in Reno a member did indeed give his sheep tag to a vet who was an amputee. The veteran had given us a motivational ten minute speech. About thirty minutes later it was announced that the Sgt and been given the tag. An outfitter then donated his services and a custom rifle maker then offered a custom sheep rifle. Another gave him all the optics he would need. The veteran was seated not far from me and I was able to observe the reaction. Very gratifying for me-and humbling. Not for PR. Non of the donors were identified except the rifle guy.

quote:

FYI--At the seep show this year in Reno a member did indeed give his sheep tag to a vet who was an amputee. The veteran had given us a motivational ten minute speech. About thirty minutes later it was announced that the Sgt and been given the tag. An outfitter then donated his services and a custom rifle maker then offered a custom sheep rifle. Another gave him all the optics he would need. The veteran was seated not far from me and I was able to observe the reaction. Very gratifying for me-and humbling. Not for PR. Non of the donors were identified except the rifle guy.

That's pretty cool! I hope they didn't give him a .270!

quote:

Originally posted by twoseventy:

FYI--At the seep show this year in Reno a member did indeed give his sheep tag to a vet who was an amputee. The veteran had given us a motivational ten minute speech. About thirty minutes later it was announced that the Sgt and been given the tag. An outfitter then donated his services and a custom rifle maker then offered a custom sheep rifle. Another gave him all the optics he would need. The veteran was seated not far from me and I was able to observe the reaction. Very gratifying for me-and humbling. Not for PR. Non of the donors were identified except the rifle guy.

AMEN!!!

Doesn't bother me a bit if the benefactors are outwardly known; but I will say this, that their honor is magnified by their annonymity!

Something like "give alms in secret...and your heavenly Father, who sees in secret, will reward you."

Well done!

friar

I'll give that one another AMEN!!!