The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Another AZ JaguarGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Another AZ Jaguar | Login/Join |
one of us |
Arizona Game and Fish Confirm Jaguar Sighting Monday, 21 Nov 2011, 2:40 PM MST TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) — The Arizona Game and Fish Department has confirmed a hunter's report of a jaguar southeast of Tucson. Officials say they've collected hair samples from the area for possible DNA testing. The report was received Saturday morning from an experienced hunter using dogs to hunt mountain lions. The animal climbed about 15 feet up a tree and the hunter was able to obtain photographs and video before leaving the area. Based on the images, biologists believe the jaguar is an adult male that appeared in good, healthy condition and weighed approximately 200 pounds. Four of the last five confirmed jaguar sightings in Arizona have been reported by hunters. Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | ||
|
| one of us |
I heard this last night at a dinner party we hosted. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hopefully AZ Game & Fish just leaves the damn thing alone. Otherwise, its likely to end up like the last one, DEAD!!! Would love to see the pics/video. | |||
|
One of Us |
Plus 1 on that thought, don't dart that S.O.B. just to check it out. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
|
| One of Us |
that was my response also. don't touch it with any more than a trail cam. damn shame, the last one.... | |||
|
| One of Us |
My good friend's brother caught it. He is a helluva lion hunter. Honestly, I am suprised he hadn't caught one up until now! | |||
|
One of Us |
Here's another view, one that I also share, that Larry Audsley, a knowledgeable Arizona sportsman's activist, posted on another site. "Macho B" is the name given to the much publicized jaguar that died after being darted. -- Bill Quimby "Macho B should have been collared several years earlier when he was younger and healthier. That might have told the Jaguar Recovery Team whether and where there was a breeding female in the region, probably in Mexico if there was one. Without any breeding females in the picture, a lone jaguar is just a conversation piece. It can't help sustain the species any more than the occasional male mountain lion that turns up in the Midwest will help restore mountain lions to the Midwest. "Any time you capture and collar an animal there is some risk that it will die. That's true of bighorn sheep, pronghorn and other species that are captured for collaring and sometimes transplanting. That's just the way it is. The death of one jaguar out of the thousands living in Mexico, Central American and South America combined is not significant to the future of the species. What is significant is whether US borderlands have a breeding population and thus could play a role in keeping the species going. The last four jaguars found in Arizona have all been males. "There are certain interests that do not want AGFD involved with jaguars, nor do they want further scientific investigation of jaguars along the border. What they want is to use the Endangered Species Act to control land use and activities there. When Macho B first came to our attention, wildlife biologists wanted to capture and collar it in the hope that the timing and duration of its movements could reveal whether and where it had a lady friend. They encountered fierce opposition from non-profits who did not want that question pursued. I believe it's because they didn't want to risk having it determined that he was simply an itinerant or expatriate male, such as we often see in mountain lions, and that its presence here does not signify a self-sustaining population. These non-profits wanted to quit while they were ahead. The mere prospect of jaguars of southern Arizona gives them enough to put jaguar images on their letterheads, raise funds and clamor for a recovery zone with all its attendant restrictions. "USFWS should attempt to capture and collar this animal. If it dies, so be it. It's the animal welfare enthusiast who worries about one animal. True conservationists and ecologists concern themselves with entire species. Whether there is a breeding population near the border should be the basis for whether USFWS establishes a "Jaguary Recovery Zone" there. The agency is presently considering doing just that, and in my opinion their decision should hinge on whether they can locate a female near the border. If not, jaguar recovery along the border is merely an illusion and a hoax. And as noted jaguar expert Alan Rabinowitz has said, establishing a jaguar recovery zone in an area of the US that offers no hope of contributing to recovery can actually hurt the jaguar's future by diverting funds and misleading people into thinking the species is being helped when it really isn't. "It is neither fair nor prudent for sportsmen to hammer on AGFD for the death of the last jaguar. They were tricked by a subcontractor and lied to by an employee, and some bad luck was involved as well. Sportsmen need to keep their heads in the game and watch where this thing is going." | |||
|
| one of us |
Congratulations, this one exciting information. I wish that at least once I'll be able to see one in the wild. | |||
|
| one of us |
+1, Bill. Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
|
One of Us |
My initial gut reaction is to agree with Aaron, ravenr and others just leave the thing alone after that last escapade but Bill Quimby does put another slant on it with his quote from Larry Audsley. Thanks Bill As usual the information and opinions on this forum are varied and informative, sometimes you guys make me think! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Bill - Obviously a different side of the coin, but one I simply disagree with! Your buddy says, "dart it, and maybe it dies", that's just the way it is. Really??? How about just leave the damn thing alone, and there's a 100% chance it won't die from darting! Now we're comparing the U.S. jaguar with bighorn/pronghorn too?? Pretty sure the darting/capturing of a pronghorn or sheep is not a threat to killing, potentially the last one in the entire country! Then he says, killing one here is no big deal, when considering the thousands that are in central/south America. But at the same time, he says knowing if there is potentially a breeding pair in the U.S., could benefit the longevity of the species. Ok, which one is it?? Either the death of one jaguar matters not, or a breeding pair or two, could be beneficial to the species overall longevity! Totally contradictory, IMO. The potential population of jaguars in the U.S., will never have an impact of the sustainability of the species as a whole, never! Besides, the USFWS/AGFD will kill, mis-handle and fumble the ball, long before any of that ever could/would happen. I do agree with his point about "some" wanting to control land use, etc, as it could pertain to the "protection" of an endangered species. Just another reason to leave the damn things alone! The studying/darting of this or any other jaguar, will ONLY lead to exactly that, and we all know it. Knowing more or less about the cat will change nothing, period. Either there's a breeding population in the U.S. or there's not? Either there will be or there won't be? No amount of harrassment, studying and darting jaguars will change that, period! No amount of money thrown at the possibility of that, or not, will change it. So, just leave the damn things alone!!!! He/they have managed to get there in the first place, without the help of some government morons, so for god-sakes, leave them to do it on their own. The only intention of darting/studying them, is to potentially intervene in some way, divert money from one coffer to another, or someone's personal ego, nothing more. The only thing any/every government agency is capable of doing is screwing it up, just like the last one! "Jaguar Expert" - Alan Rabinowitz, read his comment! So how about the AGFD and the USFWS just leave the damn things alone? Yes, the AGFD is responsible for the death of "Macho B", period! To say anything less, is to simply ignore the facts, for some unknown or personal reason. There job is to manage and sustain the wildlife in Arizona, and in the case of Macho B, they failed! Regardless of who they listened to, or advice they took, they are still responsible, period. The jaguar died in their care, period, end of story. Yet, when done at the hands of govt/wildlife officials, that's somehow acceptable loss. What a joke! Fact is, at least in my experience. When dealing with "cat" experts, the USFWS and local game & fish departments, rarely have I ever seen less qualified/less experienced "wildlife experts", in my life. Its simply a fact when dealing with any governmental division, there only expertise is in creating bigger/more wide spread problems. My vote, leave the darn things alone, and just maybe they'll have a chance! | |||
|
| one of us |
Great post Aaron. There are many contradictions in the Audsley post. He basically says that they don't matter unless there is a breeding pair. BS. Either they matter or they don't. Won't we know if there is a breeding female when young ones start showing up on cameras, or by hunters? Rabinowitz is correct. Leave the damn things alone. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
|
one of us |
I agree. Jim "Bwana Umfundi" NRA | |||
|
| One of Us |
This is the part that concerns me. Does the 'wolf recovery zone' ring a bell with anyone? How's that been working out? | |||
|
One of Us |
I also vote for "leave the jag alone". We don't HAVE to do anything with it. Let it be. Si tantum EGO eram dimidium ut bonus ut EGO memor | |||
|
| One of Us |
Once again, all the more reason to totally leave em alone!!! | |||
|
| One of Us |
While I have had a difference with Aaron on the lion issue, I agree with him 100% on the "Leave The Animal Alone" idea. It probably does not matter one damn minute to anyone, but for almost 25 years I worked in the very controlled environment of a major zooilogical park. when dealing with wild animals and even domestic animals, doing a knock down is never routine and shit goes wrong and animals die. Instead of spending the money to dart this jag and collar him, spend the money on game cams and monitor him and any others that way. How many animals will die before someone says enough? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
|
| One of Us |
"So how about the AGFD and the USFWS just leave the damn things alone? Yes, the AGFD is responsible for the death of "Macho B", period! To say anything less, is to simply ignore the facts, for some unknown or personal reason. There job is to manage and sustain the wildlife in Arizona, and in the case of Macho B, they failed! Regardless of who they listened to, or advice they took, they are still responsible, period. The jaguar died in their care, period, end of story. Yet, when done at the hands of govt/wildlife officials, that's somehow acceptable loss. What a joke! Fact is, at least in my experience. When dealing with "cat" experts, the USFWS and local game & fish departments, rarely have I ever seen less qualified/less experienced "wildlife experts", in my life. Its simply a fact when dealing with any governmental division, there only expertise is in creating bigger/more wide spread problems. " I am not an apologist for a wildlife agency either state or federal. I just happen to know that Tucson and that metropolitan area north of us are hotbeds of anti-hunting sentiment, and declaring a jaguar recovery area would close a heck of a lot of public lands to me and others who hunt. Also, the last cat's death was directly attributable to a contractor and an employee who acted on their own. As for using trail cameras to monitor a mostly nocturnal animal with an unknown range that could be as much 250 to 500 square miles of nasty terrain, good luck on that. Bill Quimby | |||
|
| One of Us |
Bill - To your first point, please explain how darting the cat, and learning more about him/them, etc, will keep your concerns at bay? I too agree that your concern would be a huge problem. However, darting/harassing and establishing more info on the cat/cats, will only add to your concerns, IMO! Next thing you know, he'll be named "Taffy", someone will create a "Facebook" page for him, and the pressure applied by the "tree-hugging, antis", will outweigh any sportsman's concerns over loss of public hunting. It won't take the verification of breeding pairs, etc, for this to happen. It will only take greater public awareness of the cats in the first place, and you can sit back and watch the mess begin. Secondly, "Macho B's" death is/was directly attributable to the AGFD's pension for messing with the cat in the first place, period! Regardless of who did what, once the process began? Had they simply left the cat to his own accord, he definitely would not have died at the hands of the "experts"!! By the way, do you know if any action was taken against either the contractor or the AGFD employee??? To your last point, I totally agree! Nocturnal has nothing to do with it, as trail cams have been taking night-time pics for years. But, using cams to monitor a nomadic cat, would be virtually impossible. As you mention, his territory is unknown and could be quite large. Cats are very unpredictable, as is their prey. The only chance would be if water is scarce and concentrated, within his potantial range. Cats gotta drink too! | |||
|
One of Us |
The death of the first jaguar was human error for sure. They did not have the right people involved initially and basically just did a piss-poor job. I don't know what the right thing to do for the long term is...will have to think about it a little. But...the best thing to do when you don't have a good plan is for sure...nothing. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Donnie's catch of a lifetime. He released 3 pics to the public.. He took over 80 and 15 min of vid. I am looking forward to seeing it.  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Lane - I think you hit this one on the head! There in lies the single - biggest problem with the USFWS, local game agencies, etc. They rarely seem to have a good, organized or proven plan, but hey, don't let that stop em. Lets release wolves across the west, without a management plan, or any intention of actually following the plan. Have the CDOW (Colorado) shoot the hell out of the northern Colorado deer herd (8 years ago), because less than 1.8% of them EVER tested positive for CWD. The same CWD which was first discovered in northern Colorado in the 1960's, with zero impact on the original herd. Lets base the halt to Polar Bear importation into the U.S. on future/projected weather/ice potential or lack there of. An un-heard of, and never before seen, precedent!! And the list goes one. Government at its finest! When will we learn? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hopefully in time for the next election!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Aaron: 1. If it can be shown that this jaguar does not find a female, it would clinch the belief that our jaguars are restricted to wandering males and there is no need to establish a "recovery area" (read closed to access). 2. I haven't followed what happened to the contractor and employee. 3. Although much of southern Arizona is arid, water is not really a problem for wildlife here. Virtually every square mile of our state (except for national parks) is grazed by cattle at some time of the year, and where surface water does not occur naturally, ranchers and the game department have built catchments, stock tanks, and "guzzlers." Bill Quimby | |||
|
| One of Us |
Bill - I hear ya, and understand your logic. Problem is, you're likely a logical/rational person, expecting the "govt" to make the same logical/rational decisions. However, have we EVER seen them do so? I think regardless of what they find (or don't find), it will only lead to more abuse, more money and more need for "more", period! Again, JMO. | |||
|
| One of Us |
That pretty well sums it up in a nutshell right there. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
|
| One of Us |
That is a first class post and the part in red is especially worth remembering. Dean ...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men. -Edward, Duke of York | |||
|
| one of us |
"Here nice kitty, Please sit and and behave while I remove that snare from your leg. That way I won't have to dart you."  Everyone really should brush up on the FACTS of what happened so the comments make some sense. Perhaps a review of this thread, especially the last page, will enlighten those who do not know the facts or simply choose to ignore them. http://forums.accuratereloadin...831068231#9831068231 Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
|
one of us |
They will always be males. Young males searching for new territories away from the alpha males. The girls are allowed to stay on the neighbourhood (sp?) Here the same, last year a jaguar cross the brazilian border and it was also a young male. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Tony - Its only my opinion, nothing more than that. Please don't take it personally! IMO, govt agencies will take any opportunity to exploit these opportunities, that's just how I see it. I know the facts of the case, the same facts that say the cat died while in the govt's care! Regardless of the additional circumstances, it doesn't change my mind, which says leave the darn things alone. Case in point is Ty's post above. $771,000 project - which will really accomplish what? I personally think it will lead to nothing but headaches for local ranchers, public land use problems, and additional scrutiny for Arizona hunters! Just imagine the public outcry if/when multiple Jaguars are located in Arizona/New Mexico! They'll lobby to shut everything down for the protection of the cats. The same cats that got there in the first place, as is. I don't want to see the Jaguar exploited for some govt agency's personal agenda, and I don't want to see Arizona sportsman/landowners like you, get screwed in the mix. | |||
|
| one of us |
Opinions are always welcomed -- especially informed ones rather than ones born of ignorance. The latter is typical garbage in, garbage out. And I never take that personally. LOL If you truly did know the facts, then you wouldn't make the above comment. The AGFD was NOT "messing" with the jaguar when it was trapped. Instead, because of an earlier study done on whitetail deer that showed predation was the major factor in dropping populations, they set out to do a research project in the area on LIONS and BEARS -- not jaguars. Then seeing the opportunity for fame -- and perhaps fortune -- two members of an INDEPENDENT ORGANIZATION who have NEVER worked for the AGFD or were ever authorized to attempt capturing Macho B, decided to lure him to a LION/BEAR trap site with hopes of capturing a jaguar. And once it was trapped there was NO alternative but to dart it. See my "Here Kitty..." comment above. And had the cat not had physical problems to start, it would have likely survived quite fine. This new "research" funded by The "Homeless" Security Agency to the LEFTIST leaning UofA is EXACTLY why the post by Larry is quite relevent and dead on the money. The new project has now removed AGFD from the picture and will only provide more fodder to AZ Representative Raul Grijalva, who has been trying to get a large swath of land along the border changed into wilderness. Now, you guys can go about spouting the "holier than thou" Monday morning quarterbacking, and I shall not interrupt it anymore. I already wasted too much time the last time this was discussed and now. So the interest of curing some of the ignorance for those who wish to be informed, here are a few of the messages from the other thread. ************** It should be noted that McCain is NOT or ever has been employed by the AZ G&F Department. Interviews with both he and the fired game dept. employee, Thorry Smith, revealed that McCain and another female volunteer, Janay Brun, had intentionally baited several snare sites with scat from a female in heat that they had obtained from a zoo because they thought it would be neat to catch a jaguar. They were both members of the Borderlands Jaguar Detection Project -- an independent group that voluntraily monitored jaguar activity. It wasn't until after the fact, that the fired G&F guy found out about it. Unfortunately, he lied about what he knew when first interviewed by dept. officials. He later told them the truth, and that's why he was terminated. The interviews with Smith are long but interesting. You can read it here: Thorry Smith Interview Transcripts - Posted April 16, 2010 [PDF 5.5mb] There are also two other interview transcripts on the Jaguar Page. AGFD Mar 19, 2010 press release: PHOENIX – The Arizona Game and Fish Department today dismissed one of its employees as a result of the department’s ongoing internal administrative investigation into the events surrounding last year’s capture of the jaguar known as Macho B. Dismissed was Thornton W. Smith, 40, a wildlife technician for 12 years with the department and one of the field biologists involved in the placement and monitoring of traps used in a black bear and mountain lion research project that resulted in the initial capture of Macho B. The department dismissed Smith based on the employee’s own interview statements made during the course of the internal investigation. The statements related to Smith’s conduct that occurred several weeks after the capture, recapture and euthanizing of Macho B. Smith’s statements and further investigation confirmed that he did not comply with verbal and written directions issued by supervisors and that he admitted to knowingly misleading federal investigators regarding facts surrounding the original capture of Macho B. The department’s official letter that documents the grounds for dismissal was delivered to Smith earlier today. Smith admitted that he failed to comply with verbal and written direction from supervisors not to communicate with anyone (other than investigators) regarding the original capture of the jaguar due to the fact that a federal law enforcement investigation had begun. In his statements to department investigators, Smith stated that he talked about the capture with Emil McCain, a biologist with the Borderlands Jaguar Detection Project, even though Smith had previously been instructed not to communicate with anyone regarding the subject of the ongoing investigation. According to Smith, McCain had assisted Smith in selecting bear and mountain lion trap site locations for the research project. Smith alleged that McCain disclosed to him after the capture had occurred that McCain had placed jaguar scat at two camera sites in the vicinity of where Macho B was captured. Smith also alleged that during his discussions with McCain, the two of them concocted a false story about the capture for federal investigators, and that McCain later allegedly went to the area where Macho B was captured and removed all traces of jaguar scat so that the capture scene matched the story. Smith also admitted to Game and Fish investigators that he had knowingly misled federal investigators from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service when he told them the story he and McCain had allegedly made up denying that jaguar scat had been placed in the vicinity of the Macho B capture site. Yet in his interview with department investigators, Smith alleged that McCain “went in and removed whatever scat he left, whatever it was. You know, I don’t know what got eaten. Because by the time we actually caught, you know, the jaguar, the scat by the camera had been kicked over and knocked. I don’t know what was left. He went in and cleaned it up, made it look like our story.” When asked by department investigators if he had knowingly misled the federal investigators, Smith said, “Yah. Yah. We (McCain and Smith) came up with a story, and I just, it’s been eating on me and I just couldn’t live with it.” Upon further questioning by department investigators, Smith went on to allege, “We made a different story to protect the department, to protect Emil, to protect my association with Emil, about, you know, not leaving jaguar scat, but (tape recording inaudible). There was no scat at all placed anywhere. The one scat I did find he pointed out was an old one, which it was, but you know, I can’t live with that. You know, I did it.” The Department has concluded that the employee’s conduct is cause for dismissal as allowed by Arizona Revised Statutes 41-770 and includes violations of the standards of conduct for state employees found in Arizona Administrative Code R2-5-501. Smith has been restricted from working on field activities since July 16, 2009, and the department placed him on paid administrative leave on March 8 pending a determination on what final administrative action would be taken. On March 15, the department issued Smith an official notice of charges of misconduct letter. Today, Smith submitted to the department his intent to resign his position. The department refused to accept Smith’s resignation as allowed by Arizona Administrative Code R2-5-901 and issued a letter of dismissal to him. Department officials added that the Game and Fish internal investigation cannot be considered completed until the department has an opportunity to review whatever findings may come out of an ongoing federal investigation being conducted by the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service. However, department officials noted that as the one year anniversary of the initiation of the federal investigation approaches, the department had reached a point in its own investigation where it could no longer delay taking appropriate action. The department has determined that no agency personnel directed any person to capture a jaguar, and that the department’s actions related to the capture were lawful. Arizona Daily Star, April 2, 2009 I baited jaguar trap, research worker says By Tony Davis and Tim Steller A trap the state says inadvertently snared the last known wild jaguar in the United States actually was baited with female jaguar scat, a member of the Borderlands Jaguar Detection Project says. Janay Brun told the Star that on Feb. 4 she put the scat at the site of the trap that two weeks later snared the male jaguar, known as Macho B. He was released but recaptured 12 days later, on March 2, because he showed signs of poor health. He was euthanized that afternoon. Brun, 37, said she spoke to the Star because she thinks she helped cause the death of Macho B. "That jaguar meant a lot to me, and the fact that I mindlessly participated in this — it's a regret I'll have for the rest of my life." She said she put the scat out in the presence of a state Game and Fish employee and Emil McCain, a biologist for the project. Brun alleges that McCain told her to place the scat at the site. In two interviews with the Star this week, McCain vehemently denied her allegations. On Tuesday, he said Brun was fired from the project within the last month and was "completely unreliable in the past and untrustworthy." On Wednesday, he said the project ran out of money to pay her and that he was waiting to meet with Brun to tell her that. The Star is not naming the Game and Fish employee Brun says was present when the scat was placed because it has not been able to reach the person. The state Attorney General's Office has taken over an investigation of the circumstances of the jaguar's capture from Arizona Game and Fish. The game department, which announced the investigation Tuesday night, would not elaborate. Project workers have used female jaguar scat to attract jaguars, McCain and others said this week. In 2004, the project began placing scat at locations of motion-sensing cameras where they were attempting to photograph jaguars, two former volunteers said. Jaguars and other cats use scents as a way to communicate, and female jaguar feces may attract male jaguars. The borderlands jaguar project obtained female jaguar scat from the Phoenix Zoo in November and December of last year and from the Reid Park Zoo on Feb. 18 of this year, officials of both zoos told the Star this week. They said they understood the scat would be used to attract jaguars to cameras, not snares. On Dec. 10 of last year, in an e-mail exchange forwarded by Brun, McCain sent her an e-mail saying he "just got a package of female … jag scat. Am thinking about placing it under a certain tree. You concur?" "Si," Brun replied in an e-mail nearly an hour later. Brun, of Arivaca, is out of state taking care of a family matter. But she said by phone and e-mail that she is speaking up because of the guilt she feels over the death of Macho B, whom she had been studying since she accidentally saw him in 1999. "I felt guilty as all hell that I never questioned Emil enough, that I didn't go back and set the snares off or do something to get them out of there," said Brun, who has been a paid, part-time field technician for the jaguar detection project. McCain denied having told Brun to place jaguar scat at the snare site and said he didn't know that she had done it. "I'm extremely shocked that she would have said that or put scat in that snare," McCain said. "That snare was obviously for mountain lion and bear purposes, not for jaguar research." More........ Preparing for capture E-mails obtained through public-records requests to Arizona Game and Fish and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service make clear that in the two weeks before Macho B was captured, McCain and others were preparing to capture a jaguar, even though subsequently officials emphasized the capture was inadvertent. On Feb. 3, the Game and Fish employee and McCain received e-mails from veterinarians Roberto Aguilar and Sharon Deem suggesting what dosages of which drugs to use to sedate a jaguar. McCain followed up on Feb. 5 with an e-mail to Deem and the unnamed Game and Fish employee clarifying that the employee "is not trying to catch a jaguar, but he is working on a mountain lion and black bear study in an area where he may inadvertently encounter a jaguar." On Feb. 13, McCain wrote an e-mail to Blake Henke of North Star Science and Technology, who provided the radio collar that five days later was placed on Macho B. "I wanted to thank you for getting the donated jaguar collar back to me so quickly," McCain wrote. "I also wanted you to know that we have again started trapping, and that there is fresh jaguar sign in the area." On Feb. 16, McCain wrote to the Game and Fish employee and Henke: "At this point I think that for the week long trapping periods in the area where we may capture a jag, I think we should leave that collar (turned) on. Especailly (sic) given the remmoteness (sic) of the area, the lack of internet or phone access and the once in a lifetime change (sic) to collar a AZ jag, I think it is prudent to be 100% sure the collar is on." Naive about traps As Brun described the scent-baiting event, it occurred on a cold evening, after she, McCain and the Arizona Game and Fish employee had spent most of the day hiking in rugged hills northwest of Nogales, Ariz. The trio checked sites where the borderlands project had set camera traps to photograph passing jaguars and where Game and Fish had set snares for the mountain lion and bear project, Brun said. "Emil said to me, 'Janay, put the scat over there,' " Brun recalled, referring to the area of the snare trap. "I was very naive about what the traps were. We'd used the scat before at the (camera) traps for two months in Macho B's territory last year and no jaguars had showed up. I didn't think he would be back in the area." Photos of the jaguar taken on Jan. 21 had shown Macho B about 12 miles north of the eventual trap site, Brun and McCain said. A photo taken earlier that month had shown Macho B south of and much closer to the trap site. On Feb. 21, three days after Macho B's capture, she said she went to the capture site and saw what she later described as a tree with jaguar claw and tooth marks running up and down it. "They told the story of how he tried to climb the tree to pull the cable off his paw, only to be pulled down to the ground by the same cable," Brun wrote in an e-mail to the Star, describing the braided, metal cable that is used to snare an animal by a limb. "I found pieces of his claws, including a tip, embedded in the bark. The 'padding' on the cable was electrical tape. This is done to ensure that the cable does not slice through the animal's skin, bone, ligaments and joints as it fights to get free. The loop of the cable remained taut against his paw, cutting off circulation." In his interview on Tuesday, McCain said Brun had "done a very dirty trick here to make this information public without talking about it first." "This particular individual has been completely unreliable in the past and untrustworthy," McCain said. Brun has worked as a volunteer and paid employee for the borderlands project since 2001. But McCain said the project fired Brun sometime in the past month. Brun said she had no knowledge of having been fired. She provided the Star an e-mail exchange between McCain and her from March 19 and 20 in which he had asked her to go with him to Sonora for 10 days in April to set up to 20 cameras, presumably to photograph wildlife. Brun was described as "an excellent tracker, putting in countless hours in the field each month," in the book "Ambushed on the Jaguar Trail," an account written by Jack Childs and his wife, Anna. He is co-founder and project coordinator for the Borderlands Jaguar Detection Project. He and Anna, also a co-founder of the group, have been photographing jaguars in Southern Arizona since first catching Macho B on camera in 1996. Jack Childs, of Amado, said he knew nothing of Brun's allegations until being told of them by a reporter. He declined to comment on them. In their book, the Childs also thanked biologist McCain, and said, "His bulldog tenacity, tracking ability and vast knowledge of the wild critters of the region elevate the status of the project far beyond our expectations." Brun was also described as "reliable, totally honest and very trustworthy" by a federal biologist for whom she had worked as an unpaid intern at Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge in 2001. Brun spent a year working for the refuge, surveying, releasing and tracking endangered masked bobwhite birds — "she was my right-hand person," recalled Mary Hunnicutt, a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service biologist. For years, many jaguar researchers and other wildlife biologists had wanted to capture a jaguar to learn more about its movements and other behavior, particularly because of concerns that a planned fence along the U.S.-Mexican border would disrupt its movements. McCain was among the leading advocates of capture. Some environmental groups such as the Sky Island Alliance and Center for Biological Diversity have questioned or opposed capture on the grounds that its risks to the rare animal outweighed the benefits. But from the moment that Game and Fish officials announced the Macho B capture, they have stuck to their account that the capture was accidental. They have said repeatedly that that trap and others in the area were set to trap black bears and mountain lions to study their movement patterns and migration corridors. "While we didn't set out to collar a jaguar as part of the mountain lion and bear research project, we took advantage of an important opportunity," said Terry Johnson, endangered species coordinator for the Arizona Game and Fish Department on Feb. 19, the day the state announced the capture. The Borderlands research project began using female jaguar scat obtained from the Reid Park Zoo in 2004, said two former volunteers for the group, Shiloh Walkosak and Sergio Avila. Arizona is at the northern edge of the range of jaguars. In a paper published in the Journal of Mammalogy last year, Childs and McCain said the project "provides valuable new information" on the distribution, travel patterns, longevity and activity of jaguars in the borderlands. Walkosak, a former Reid Park zookeeper and volunteer with the jaguar project, said she supplied McCain and the project with female jaguar scat that she collected when the zoo's jaguars were in their fertile periods. "Using the scat was an ongoing part of the project up till when I left the zoo" in late 2006, she said. "We would give him (McCain) maybe the equivalent of one bowel movement for a large cat. He would use that for a very long period of time. He was literally putting a small smear on a rock in front of the camera." Walkosak and Avila, who now researches jaguars for the Sky Island Alliance, said the project got more photos of jaguars when they began using female jaguar scat. He and other project workers "used jaguar scat in 2004," Avila said. "That same year, as a result of this, we obtained four photographs of jaguars." Said Walkosak: "Afterwards we consistently got photographs whenever that (scat) scent was used." Reid Park Zoo administrator Susan Basford confirmed Walkosak's account, and Phoenix Zoo president Bert Castro acknowledged the zoo provided scat for photo sites last year. Earlier this year, the zoo agreed to resume supplying jaguar scat to McCain and the project for use in attracting jaguars to the cameras, Basford said. McCain requested the scat to place at camera sites, not snares, she said. From AGFD: May 20, 2010 An individual involved in the Macho B incident last year pleaded guilty in U.S. District Court on Friday, May 14 for unlawfully taking a jaguar, an endangered species, in violation of the U.S. Endangered Species Act. Emil McCain, 31, of Patagonia, was sentenced by U. S. Magistrate Judge Bernardo P. Velasco to five years of supervised probation with the condition that he is not permitted to be employed or any way involved in any large cat or large carnivore project or study in the United States during his probationary term. McCain was also fined $1,000 for the Class A misdemeanor conviction. Court documents provide the following facts describing McCain’s connection to the conduct for which he pleaded guilty: On February 4, 2009, at or near Ruby, in the District of Arizona, Emil McCain placed jaguar scat or directed a female person to place jaguar scat at three (3) snare sites in an attempt to capture and trap an endangered species, to wit, a jaguar (Panthera onca). McCain knew that there had been recent evidence of a jaguar in the area of the snares. The snares had been set solely for the purpose of capturing and placing tracking collars on mountain lions and bears; there was no authorization to intentionally capture a jaguar. A jaguar known as Macho B was caught at one of those snare sites on February 18, 2009. Some media reports and other accounts about McCain’s guilty plea have incorrectly identified McCain as an Arizona Game and Fish Department employee or state official. As the Department has previously stated, McCain has never been an employee of the Arizona Game and Fish Department, and by February 2009, when Macho B was initially captured, McCain was acting independently, and was neither a contractor, subcontractor, nor a formal volunteer to the Department. McCain’s admission of guilt conclusively establishes his true involvement in this matter and supports the Arizona Game and Fish Department’s long-standing assertion that there was no authorization from the Department for the intentional capture of a jaguar. Until the Department obtains access to the federal investigative file, the Department’s own internal investigation continues to be open and ongoing. Web Links: Read the U.S. District Court documents: USA vs. McCain [PDF 452kb] Read the Associated Press story: Southern Arizona man pleads guilty in jaguar’s death View the Arizona Republic story: Trapper pleads guilty to capturing jaguar Learn more by reading the AGFD Response to Office of Inspector General Report Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
|
| One of Us |
Tony - I'm sorry I still don't seem to know the "facts"? What I do know, and stated again, in your own post above, is ONE of the AGFD's employees was dismissed (nice word for fired). He's an AGFD employee, he represents the AGFD, he's a govt employee, he's entrusted to follow his superior's directives, etc, etc, etc. How does the info below exonerate the AGFD? They (AGFD) might claim they didn't know what was going on, but I for one, don't believe that for a second! Sounds like alot of CYA to me. Regardless, I'm still most concerned about the cats and the public/private land use, especially for Arizona residents like you. IMO a $770,000 study will lead to nothing but loss for you guys. They'll have to do two things for sure. First, justify the cost with some sort of action. Part of which will likely be MORE MONEY!! Preparing for capture E-mails obtained through public-records requests to Arizona Game and Fish and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service make clear that in the two weeks before Macho B was captured, McCain and others were preparing to capture a jaguar, even though subsequently officials emphasized the capture was inadvertent. On Feb. 3, the Game and Fish employee and McCain received e-mails from veterinarians Roberto Aguilar and Sharon Deem suggesting what dosages of which drugs to use to sedate a jaguar. McCain followed up on Feb. 5 with an e-mail to Deem and the unnamed Game and Fish employee clarifying that the employee "is not trying to catch a jaguar, but he is working on a mountain lion and black bear study in an area where he may inadvertently encounter a jaguar." On Feb. 13, McCain wrote an e-mail to Blake Henke of North Star Science and Technology, who provided the radio collar that five days later was placed on Macho B. "I wanted to thank you for getting the donated jaguar collar back to me so quickly," McCain wrote. "I also wanted you to know that we have again started trapping, and that there is fresh jaguar sign in the area." On Feb. 16, McCain wrote to the Game and Fish employee and Henke: "At this point I think that for the week long trapping periods in the area where we may capture a jag, I think we should leave that collar (turned) on. Especailly (sic) given the remmoteness (sic) of the area, the lack of internet or phone access and the once in a lifetime change (sic) to collar a AZ jag, I think it is prudent to be 100% sure the collar is on." | |||
|
| one of us |
Once more, I'll put forth my best "lead a horse to water..." effort. READ THE TRANSCRIPTS of the INVESTIGATIVE INTERVIEW with said employee to learn the facts of the case. Regardless of what YOU believe, the FACTS show otherwise. I'll repeat the links posted above in case you missed them: The interviews with Smith are long but interesting. You can read it here: Thorry Smith Interview Transcripts - Posted April 16, 2010 [PDF 5.5mb] There are also two (15 now!)other interview transcripts on the Jaguar Page. Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
|
| One of Us |
I home they keep their damned hands off this cat. I was living in AZ when they killed the last one and it was a damned embarrassment, especially when they tried to keep it quiet. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Ok Tony, you win and I can't read! AGFD nor any of its employees/affiliates (who may represent the agency) have any responsibility in the death of Macho B, or the attempted cover-up. My mistake! Second, making that point explicitly clear will make the capture, collaring, harassment and $770,000 to be spent on the next go round, perfectly acceptable, just as it obviously makes the first go round acceptable too! Third, now knowing the govt agencies/affiliates were not at all responsible, as I first thought. I feel perfectly comfortable in knowing they will only do what's best for the cat, as the example set forth in the prior incident obviously proves. Fourth, there's no doubt the best possible decisions will be made by said agencies/affiliates, as it pertains to future private/public land use, or the effects future studies/findings have on its potential use, hunter's "rights", etc. That's obvious, as past state/federal agency decisions on similar matters have always been sound/rational ones. Sorry, I totally mis-understood the entire issue. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Interesting post. I enjoy seeing the large amount of interest this topic has on the forum. Everyone seems to have the jaguars best interest in mind. I am not familiar with the specifics on how the last jaguar met its fate, but I can say this: One jaguar in the larger scheme of things means nothing to the overall survival of the species, and just because one showed up in AZ does not mean there is a viable population living there. It has been well documented (with radio collar work in other places) that young male felids will travel large distances to set up territories of their own. This cat may have traveled hundreds, or even up to a thousand miles to end up where it did. By the handful of jaguar sightings over the past decade, it would probably be a correct assumption that southern AZ is on the fringe of the fringe of occupied jaguar habitat. The amount of information you can gather from a single collared animal is extraordinary. With today's collars, you only have to handle the animal one time and then it is hands off (nothing more than running the cat with hounds and an hour of immobilization). Heck, new collars can even remove themselves at a predetermined date with a built in .22 blank. Most have GPS technology, that enables you to see in real time habitat selection, the possibility of a kill (several waypoints in one spot would suggest the cat is on something dead), and how the can interacts in its environment. Like I stated earlier, while I'm not familiar with the specifics on how the last AZ jaguar died, I can say I know quite a few wildlife professionals who are conducting studies on mountain lions and other cats around the world. All of them are top notch scientists who have a love of the animal they are studying and the last thing they would want to do is kill an animal inadvertantly or have some type of government conspiracy as a motivating force. Those of you who might believe this need to quit watching the X files. I know most of you do not want the cat bothered, but you seem to want them persisting in AZ. What you're forgetting, is that unlike deer, elk, antelope, sheep, etc. that you can easily watch and monitor over time because they are visible, the only way you can seriously take a hard look at what a lion or jaguar is really doing is with telemetry work. By their very nature as a secretive, mostly nocturnal predator, putting a collar on is the most hands off way to gather the most information on this cool critter. I know in the Black Hills they did a huge mountain lion project, and at one time had up to 70 mountain lions collared. The amount of information and "what the heck" moments they learned is priceless. SD Game & Fish was actually able to justify a lion hunting season in the Hills from this study...something that up until then had never been done. Just my $.02 | |||
|
| One of Us |
Jan Brewer's Official PAC Friends, Today, I learned that the Department of Homeland Security is spending $771,000 to put up cameras in our desert to track...jaguars! The study will evaluate what impact that the U.S.-Mexican border fence, illegal aliens, and vehicles and equipment used to pursue illegal aliens have had on the jaguar population. You can click here to view the article. http://azstarnet.com/news/loca...0e-a776166085fb.html This is simply outrageous! We need to secure our borders and that's one reason why Jan PAC was formed. I need your help in my battle to secure the border and fight an out of control federal government. Just some FYI. | |||
|
| one of us |
No secret. See this comment I made earlier: The new project has now removed AGFD from the picture and will only provide more fodder to AZ Representative Raul Grijalva, who has been trying to get a large swath of land along the border changed into wilderness. Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
|
| One of Us |
Tony, exactly why I have been saying, just leave the cats alone! Govt involvement, will only lead to more govt involvement, IMO. Really, Homeland Security is running this?? My lord, why don't we just let Mrs. Johnson's 3rd grade class take over air traffic control too!! That's deplorable. | |||
|
| one of us |
On the contrary. And if you really knew anything about what has been going on in regards to the border, you would also know why both Bill and I said that this message is dead on: Here's another view, one that I also share, that Larry Audsley, a knowledgeable Arizona sportsman's activist, posted on another site. "Macho B" is the name given to the much publicized jaguar that died after being darted. -- Bill Quimby "Macho B should have been collared several years earlier when he was younger and healthier. That might have told the Jaguar Recovery Team whether and where there was a breeding female in the region, probably in Mexico if there was one. Without any breeding females in the picture, a lone jaguar is just a conversation piece. It can't help sustain the species any more than the occasional male mountain lion that turns up in the Midwest will help restore mountain lions to the Midwest. "Any time you capture and collar an animal there is some risk that it will die. That's true of bighorn sheep, pronghorn and other species that are captured for collaring and sometimes transplanting. That's just the way it is. The death of one jaguar out of the thousands living in Mexico, Central American and South America combined is not significant to the future of the species. What is significant is whether US borderlands have a breeding population and thus could play a role in keeping the species going. The last four jaguars found in Arizona have all been males. "There are certain interests that do not want AGFD involved with jaguars, nor do they want further scientific investigation of jaguars along the border. What they want is to use the Endangered Species Act to control land use and activities there. When Macho B first came to our attention, wildlife biologists wanted to capture and collar it in the hope that the timing and duration of its movements could reveal whether and where it had a lady friend. They encountered fierce opposition from non-profits who did not want that question pursued. I believe it's because they didn't want to risk having it determined that he was simply an itinerant or expatriate male, such as we often see in mountain lions, and that its presence here does not signify a self-sustaining population. These non-profits wanted to quit while they were ahead. The mere prospect of jaguars of southern Arizona gives them enough to put jaguar images on their letterheads, raise funds and clamor for a recovery zone with all its attendant restrictions. "USFWS should attempt to capture and collar this animal. If it dies, so be it. It's the animal welfare enthusiast who worries about one animal. True conservationists and ecologists concern themselves with entire species. Whether there is a breeding population near the border should be the basis for whether USFWS establishes a "Jaguary Recovery Zone" there. The agency is presently considering doing just that, and in my opinion their decision should hinge on whether they can locate a female near the border. If not, jaguar recovery along the border is merely an illusion and a hoax. And as noted jaguar expert Alan Rabinowitz has said, establishing a jaguar recovery zone in an area of the US that offers no hope of contributing to recovery can actually hurt the jaguar's future by diverting funds and misleading people into thinking the species is being helped when it really isn't. Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia