With todays technology the 500 yard shot is much easier then even 15 to 20 years ago. A good rifleman with todays scopes, rangefinders, and just about any small bore magnum can make this shot. The rangefinder is the ace. Once a rifleman knows the exact distance a shot like the above can be made. I havn't used a rangefinder for a number of years now, and I only used one because someone I was hunting with had one. So, for me 400 yards it at my limit. But, would much prefer to get inside 200 if at all possible.

quote:

Originally posted by Bo Rich:
With todays technology the 500 yard shot is much easier then even 15 to 20 years ago. A good rifleman with todays scopes, rangefinders, and just about any small bore magnum can make this shot. The rangefinder is the ace. Once a rifleman knows the exact distance a shot like the above can be made.

Yes but hunters should get always try to get closer!

I have shot deer at 320 yards, 300 yards, 225 yards, 250 yards, moose at 280 yards. In each of those situations I had no chance to get closer. I sure prefer 30 yards!

So I always get as close as I can.

The idea that a laser rangefinder gives you the greenlight to shoot at 500 yards and beyond gives guys a false sense of security. I do not really care how competent the rifleman is.
I maintain that if you want to shoot at those ranges, do it on steel or paper targets and not live animals, then you can hit the 10 ring all day and there is no limit to how far you wish to shoot.

I think rangefinders are great for the military and bowhunters and Long Range Target Shooters.


So you can go hunting or you can shoot long range targets but they are not the same. So do one or the other...

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
thanks for the attention.
whats you adress? I have some writtings here you can read as well.

No thanks.
I let my subsciption to Hustler magazine run out when I was 18...

whens that 2011?

Nope. It WAS 1979. Time for you to grow up.

This is EXACTLY the type of response and thread TO EXPECT FROM someone who spends 50% of their time in the political forum.

Threads like this have been posted again and again. I don't like the way the thread is always put in the light of whether or not it's hunting and if getting closer is the problem implying that the hunter can't really "hunt".
Why even ask a question like that? Let the guys hunt the way they want. If someone can make a 500 yard shot let him hunt that way. If someone can do it at 1k or even further that's his choice to make. I'll let anyone hunt anyway they want and not belittle his choice since it is his choice and the way he enjoys hunting. As long as someone can make the shot and kill the animal let him do it in anyway that he chooses to do so be that with a bow, black powder, 45/70 or 338/416. We're all hunters and enjoy being in the outdoors.

If you look at the definiton of the word hunt http://www.wordreference.com/definition/hunting
I don't see anything mentioned about range in there. If one can find it and kill it that's good enough for me.

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
The way i see it is that killing a deer at 500 yards requires alot of skill.

I've done it, and I might do it again if the conditions were perfect for the shot and impossible for a stalk.
I'd rather not, and the last decade or so, there's been no need to. Shots get shorter every trip.

I've walked away from a bunch of long shots when I didn't like the conditions, many more than the few I've taken.

quote:
Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
The way i see it is that killing a deer at 500 yards requires alot of skill.


KSTEPHENS, I agree but it does. And not alot of hunters can do it.


quote:
Originally posted by TomP
I've done it, and I might do it again if the conditions were perfect for the shot and impossible for a stalk.
I'd rather not, and the last decade or so, there's been no need to. Shots get shorter every trip.

I've walked away from a bunch of long shots when I didn't like the conditions, many more than the few I've taken.

TomP


Tom, I also agree with you. I my younger days I shot 600 meter targets with a M-14 w/peep-sight. To do this requires a lot of practice and skill. But shooting 500 yards in the field requires a different skill set. Scopes and LRF help but if you can not dope the wind you are out of luck.

Here's a twist...

is it "hunting" when you sit in a tree stand for hours waiting for a deer to walk by b/c you are bow"hunting?" Or is it simply "sitting" and then "killing" if you wind up taking a deer?

If you want to split hairs, all "hunting" is over the moment you see the game you seek and have your finger on the trigger, whether that game is 5 yards or 500 yards. After that, it's all "shooting."

Getting closer is not always an option. There are those of us with handicaps. I, for one, do not have an ACL in my right knee. Makes for hard walking. I have spent years fine tuning my shooting skills and I know my limitations.

Taking a deer at 500 yards is not hard if you've got lots of time and practice at targets. I've been around hunters who have wounded deer/bears, missed, and just plain screwed up at shots under 50 yards.

One of my friends that went to NB for bear 2 years ago missed a big bear at 12 yards with his shotgun....explain that??? And he's a cop!

He also just shot a bear in BC last week with his .06 and they couldn't find it. Shot was under 70 yards. (I dumped both my bears with one shot to the shoulder, one with a 180 Accubond at 202 yards, the other with a 168 TTSX at 97 yards). Both bears hit the ground and never even twitched).

The notion that more game is wounded by those who are shooting beyond 300 or 400 yards compared to those who do not is not so concrete as far as I'm concerned. I think it is more rare to take long shots, thus, the real numbers of wounded game v. close encounters could be upside down.

Was it his first bear? Lots of guys are scared of bears. Cop or not he might have been a little "tense" at the moment.

I hate all the new technology. Guys believe since they have the latest laser range finder and RUM that they are good to shoot at 500+ yards.
There are TV shows that promote the practice.

I have watched Beyond Belief and it made me sick. If the guys making that movie had come upon an animal at 30 yards or 100 yards, I totally believe that the ass-clowns would have passed on the shot and moved off to "a more respectable 700 yards".

Hi guys, just my 2c

+1 for BOB also.

I personally enjoy long range hunting, BUT it is something that I have taken my time with and have sent thousands of bullets at gongs from 300- 700 yrds and when the time comes that distance will increase, each hundred yrds is a mile stone and for me it is a personal triumph to CONSISTANTLY whack the bejesus out of the gong time after time.
For me it anit guess work guys, nor unethicical, it’s a whole lot of my time and effort that goes into making that long shot, and when that animals goes down a split second after that trigger is squeezed it is a very satisfying feeling, just the same feeling that goes into stalking in on game and getting the muzzle in the ear hole and squeezing the trigger.
But I hate to piss on people’s chips here but I’m sure that there is a hell of a lot of animals that are shot and wounded and not recovered at close ranges too.
To date my longest shot is 605 yrds both BOOM…..Flops, they were not rushed, guessed nor flukes and put food on my family’s table, to me that is what matters the most!
I hate to turn it around, but sitting in a tree stand, in a area that you have put out feed, salt licks and any other method is used to attract game and waiting for the game to come to the feed thrower at lunch time and putting a bullet in it head then hi fives and back slaps all round for a AWSOME HUNT!! For me you may as well have gone and shot it behind a fence if that’s what you call hunting.

Happy hunting

Regards Runas

From the stand I sit(nap) in most of the time, I can see approx 400 yards in 4 directions. I figure I'm an average kinda guy. I use 7x35 binos and usually a 3x9 in some flavor of scope. 400 yards is a long way and 100 yrds beyond that the "average"guy is looking at something very tiny, even at 9X. The difference in bullet drop is substantial between 400 - 500 yrds and missing the yardage by 25 yards is enough for a clean miss. I have found that with a normal hunting rifle in a normal hunting cartridge, sighted at 200 yrds, the elevation is almost out of the field of view on a 40mm objective at 600 yrds. Every time I hear of 500 yard shooting, the first thing that comes to my mind is, why not 525 yrd shooting. I have done some 450 - 475 yard "shooting" at targets that were not game animals and they allowed me to experiment at getting the range just right so that I could hit them most every time at the same place, taking the shot from the same spot each time. The yardage didn't really matter but it was measured with a range finder. It didn't matter because I got to watch the bullets hit until I got it right. The rifle is a 308 Win built on a 98 action and it has a 24" bull barrel. It's topped with a Simmons 4x12 of some kind. It's hardly a classic long range rifle but it will shoot 3" groups at 300 (measured) with a stable rest.(I use a 50# sack of corn and lay the rifle in it and shoot off a bench)

For the average guy 500 yards is out of the question on a one time deal. There are those who can do it. They are in the vast minority and this is a good thing because they usually have some other issues too.

Alan

quote:

Originally posted by RUNAS:
Hi guys, just my 2c

+1 for BOB also.

I personally enjoy long range hunting, BUT it is something that I have taken my time with and have sent thousands of bullets at gongs from 300- 700 yrds and when the time comes that distance will increase, each hundred yrds is a mile stone and for me it is a personal triumph to CONSISTANTLY whack the bejesus out of the gong time after time.
For me it anit guess work guys, nor unethicical, it’s a whole lot of my time and effort that goes into making that long shot, and when that animals goes down a split second after that trigger is squeezed it is a very satisfying feeling, just the same feeling that goes into stalking in on game and getting the muzzle in the ear hole and squeezing the trigger.
But I hate to piss on people’s chips here but I’m sure that there is a hell of a lot of animals that are shot and wounded and not recovered at close ranges too.
To date my longest shot is 605 yrds both BOOM…..Flops, they were not rushed, guessed nor flukes and put food on my family’s table, to me that is what matters the most!
I hate to turn it around, but sitting in a tree stand, in a area that you have put out feed, salt licks and any other method is used to attract game and waiting for the game to come to the feed thrower at lunch time and putting a bullet in it head then hi fives and back slaps all round for a AWSOME HUNT!! For me you may as well have gone and shot it behind a fence if that’s what you call hunting.

Happy hunting

Regards Runas

Good point.

I love to hunt. But you have a point. Many of us set up near the food source (I don't bait, but I do know the trail most deer take to the bean field), in the exit trails, or pattern the deer till you can set you watch by them. There have been many years where the opening siren goes off in town, and I have my deer 15 mintues later.

Is that "hunting"? Quite a few guys I know refuse to do any scouting like I have because "it takes the fun out of it!" They view the ultimate test as a hunter going into a new area and hunting with minimal or no scouting. They scorn my typical hunts back home were I know just about the exact hour when the deer will walk by under the stand.

What I am saying is a man must know his limitations and skill levels. I am to anal to enjoy a "blind hunt", it is part of my nature to study the ground before hand. Likewise I would not take a 500 yard shot at a big game animal. But for one who has the skills, opprotunity, and can safely do it go ahead. I just fear that there are a lot more that don't have those skills who try and miss badly.

But then I have had to track a lot of gut shot deer for guys from the lease across the river who shot them at under 30 yards. When it comes to shooting, you can blow a shot at any distance if you are lacking the skills.

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:
Was it his first bear? Lots of guys are scared of bears. Cop or not he might have been a little "tense" at the moment.

No. We've bothed killed several bears...I'm still afraid of them. I guess he is too.

I personally would prefer all of my shots be under 30 yards. I love bow range! The beyond belief fellas may very well back up to shoot if they are too close. Not my cup of tea. If I'm closer, I'm all for it.

NEJack,

Also well put!

For any one whos interested check out these guys,Im sure they could provide you with "enough gun" for that 500 yrd shot

www.cheytac.com

IMO,

shooting a deer at 500, 750, or 1000 yards is no different than shooting one at 200 yards... it's all just 'shooting' not hunting. Anytime you're using a weapon to get beyond an animals natural ability to detect you (ie, sense of smell for deer, elk), I'm of the opinion that it's no longer 'hunting'. In other words, the arbitrary distance of 500 is irrevelent in this case.

That being said, I enjoy the heck out of shooting game out to 700 yards. Almost as much as I enjoy bow'hunting' them under 30. For me however, I no longer 'shoot' game in the 200 yard range... just not fun to me anymore.

Again, these are MY opinions- how I feel personally about the differences between hunting and shooting. Others may feel that using anything other than a bow is just shooting, or that sniping game at 1000 yards is hunting; and that's thier right as well.

quote:

Originally posted by megalomaniac:
IMO,

shooting a deer at 500, 750, or 1000 yards is no different than shooting one at 200 yards... it's all just 'shooting' not hunting. Anytime you're using a weapon to get beyond an animals natural ability to detect you (ie, sense of smell for deer, elk), I'm of the opinion that it's no longer 'hunting'. In other words, the arbitrary distance of 500 is irrevelent in this case.

That being said, I enjoy the heck out of shooting game out to 700 yards. Almost as much as I enjoy bow'hunting' them under 30. For me however, I no longer 'shoot' game in the 200 yard range... just not fun to me anymore.

Again, these are MY opinions- how I feel personally about the differences between hunting and shooting. Others may feel that using anything other than a bow is just shooting, or that sniping game at 1000 yards is hunting; and that's thier right as well.

Exactly. You define hunting as bow hunting. I don't like bow hunting (don't care if you do, but I don't) because of the fact you don't get a "bang flop" kill. Now, we could debate all night long on which is "better", but for you it is a bow and for me it is a .308 Winchester. I hope you enjoy your style of hunting as much as I do mine.

The fact is we both hunt. We have strong preferences on how, but we both love it. Is either style wrong? No. It is just what we have come to prefer because of who we are. I don't think I would ever like a bow, but love to ground stalk deer with a rifle. In some ways, both are "shooting deer" to some one who believes that the only way to hunt deer is with a spear or bare hands. And I am sure someone on AR will tell us that.

I have been told that hunting - is getting as close as you can. Shooting is about getting as far away as possible!

Each to their own!

Rgds Ian

Hunting is simply the pursuit of game which you have not located. When you find what you are looking for, the shooting begins. If you try to get closer, your not hunting any more, you are stalking b/c you've already found the game animal. Shooting is not about increasing the distance, IMO.

Enought hairs split yet?

Same old bullshit. "Look at me, I snipe at deer at long distances because I ain't enough of a hunter to get closer or I'm scart to get out of sight of the truck. And I think it makes my willie bigger than yours and it gives me something to brag about at my job at the 7/11."

There are a FEW shooters that routinely shoot deer at extreme distances.(I don't know what it does for them but that's another whole thread) And it takes a lot more knowledge and skill than ringing the gong 6 times out of 10 at the range. For everyone of the fellows that can do it, there is a myriad of wannabes that talk that talk but can't walk that walk.

My personal feelings are: if a fellow can't get closer than 500 yards to his quarry, he shouldn't be allowed in the woods without supervision. And before you squealers start about cut fields and prairies, been there, done that and the statement still stands.

The good news is that everyone is entitled to their opinion.

quote:

Is shooting a deer @ 500 yards hunting to you?

No.

I shoot alot, too. Have got shotgun shells at 200 yards, golf balls at 300, got a 5 shot group at 400 went 1" wide by 1.6" high, won 20 bucks hiting 10 of 10 clay pigions at 500 yards once - And all that's with my HUNTING reload!

However, I've never shot at a deer over 280 yards. I do think, with a front and rear rifle rest, I could do so - But have chosen not to!

Here we go again with another thread saying if you don't hunt my way then you are not a hunter. Hunting methods are up to each individual person depending on the skills that they have whether it be shooting skills are stalking skills. One trying to force their own methods on an entire community is just pure BS!

I believe Culpepper summed it up for me. I like to hunt deer in my area long range, but my long range may vary by quite a bit from anothers long range. Also like to call gobblers in close and then may still not shoot. It's all hunting in my book.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
I shoot a lot -- much more so than the average Joe. I have both the skill and confidence to consistently hit small targets at extended range, and 500 yards is not a problem.

But I have never attempted a shot that long on a big game animal and probably never will, even though 500 yards is really not that far in the realm of long range shooting.

But that is my personal choice. I simply feel too much can go wrong at that range. One small error in range or wind estimation can result in a lost or wounded animal. It's one thing to put a bullet in the flank of a steel target at 500 yards but another issue altogether when it's live flesh and blood.

Also, bullet performance is critical, and if you are not intimately familiar with the low-velocity performance of a given projectile, again, you are asking for trouble.

However, I do not judge those who strive for the longest possible shot on game -- if they know what they are doing. Those individuals are unique in both their psyche and skill levels.

Unfortunatly, I have run into a few "wannabe snipers" who knew little of what they were doing and were hardly qualified to make a 100 yard shot, much less one at more than a quarter-mile away. One of them, equipped with a rangefinder and a rifle sporting ironsighter see-thru rings along with a $70 "varmint" scope and off-the-shelf Remington Core-Lock ammo, claimed to have taken several coyotes at a mile with this rig. When I inquired as to how he dialed-in elevation at that range, he told me "this rifle still shoots flat out here. It don't drop much."

good post -

if terrain necessitates the shot (for real, not just because the guy is too lazy to do a little stalking) and if the shooter is very familiar with his firearm, then i suppose he is hunting.

if he's just taking PD shooting to the next level, then he doesn't belong in the field.

If you hunt Couse Whitetail much the opportunity(s) will present itself for those kinds of distance shots. My longest is 385 yards. I have seen deer that far away and got ready for the shot. But when I took into the account of the wind and mirage, I did not have the confidence to make it. In ideal conditions I may have.

I did not post to start or take part in a war, but I think of very few game you get the opportunity at 500 yards. That is a long way away. To blanketely say that if you can't get closer you have no business, then I would invite you to a Couse Deer hunt. There are places when 800 yards is the closest.

To say it is unethical or ethical is not a valid question. It is up to the individual, location of the hunt, and skills of the hunter.

I think it is no different than sitting a stand all day on a corn field waiting for a buck to appear? Is that hunting? Is that for me to judge?

As per Mr. Jack O'Connor, here are some "rules" for long-range hunting. I
believe that they can be agreed upon by most anyone who does much
hunting.

quote:

• A long-range shot should never be taken if there is a reasonable chance
of getting closer.

• A long-range shot should never be taken if the rifleman feels doubtful
of his ability to make a good, solid, well-placed hit.

• A long-range shot should never be taken if the hunter cannot get into a
solid position - prone with a sling, from a rest, etc.

• A long-range shot should never be taken at any dangerous animal - a
brown, grizzly or polar bear, a lion, a tiger, a leopard, a cape buffalo.

• A long-range shot should never be taken at an unwounded, running
animal.

• A long-range shot should never be taken if the animal shot at can get
out of sight so quickly that it would be difficult to ascertain the effect of
the shot.

• A long-range shot should not be taken if the range is so great that a
hold on top of the shoulders will not drop a bullet into the chest cavity.

(Note from O’Connor)
“These rules may seem ultra conservative to many, and I must admit that
there have been times when I did not follow them myself. however, the
more I hunt and the more I see others shoot the more convinced I am that
they are wise and sensible rules and if they were universally adopted the
number of game animals that get away wounded to suffer and die would
be greatly reduced.â€

The question then remains, what defines a long-range shot on a game
animal?

I believe that each hunter has to make an honest evaluation of his own
abilities (not the rifle's) and let his moral and ethical judgment guide his
choice when the game is sighted. For some, this might be a hundred
yards, for others, it might be three hundred, or more. The key here is a
decision based on values and experience as well frank and honest
assessment of abilities, not based on the size of the rack on the animal!

very well said, Tas

500 yds is way too far for me, but I know some guys who have the equipment and experience to be better at 500 yds than some "Bubba's" are at 50 yds.

What I get tired of, are the folks who say "I'm-better-than-you-are-and-if-you-don't-hunt-just-like-I-do-you're-not-a-real-hunter-even-if-I-have-no-clue-what-your-local-conditions-are."

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
As per Mr. Jack O'Connor, here are some "rules"...

quote:

• A long-range shot should never be taken if there is a reasonable chance
of getting closer.

• A long-range shot should never be taken if the rifleman feels doubtful
of his ability to make a good, solid, well-placed hit.

• A long-range shot should never be taken if the hunter cannot get into a
solid position - prone with a sling, from a rest, etc.

• A long-range shot should never be taken at any dangerous animal - a
brown, grizzly or polar bear, a lion, a tiger, a leopard, a cape buffalo.

• A long-range shot should never be taken at an unwounded, running
animal.

• A long-range shot should never be taken if the animal shot at can get
out of sight so quickly that it would be difficult to ascertain the effect of
the shot.

• A long-range shot should not be taken if the range is so great that a
hold on top of the shoulders will not drop a bullet into the chest cavity.

(Note from O’Connor)
“These rules may seem ultra conservative to many, and I must admit that
there have been times when I did not follow them myself. however, the
more I hunt and the more I see others shoot the more convinced I am that
they are wise and sensible rules and if they were universally adopted the
number of game animals that get away wounded to suffer and die would
be greatly reduced.â€

Well done Tas.
That quote from O'Connor pretty well sums up my feelings on the subject.
On game animals, if I cannot be sure of landing a shot in the vitals with no daylight between the animals shoulders or backline, and the crosshairs, then the critter is too far away.
Kind of a general rule, but I find it works well enough for the deer sized critters hereabouts.
JMHO.

ol army & sambar - much appreciated.

to all - i think it is important to keep in mind that the original question at hand is whether or not the proposed scenario is considered by YOU (each individual) to be hunting. when it comes to individual judgements, there isn't anything wrong with saying "this is right and that is wrong."

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
ol army & sambar - much appreciated.

to all - i think it is important to keep in mind that the original question at hand is whether or not the proposed scenario is considered by YOU (each individual) to be hunting. when it comes to individual judgements, there isn't anything wrong with saying "this is right and that is wrong."

and so the corollary to your comment would be that if someone thinks a guy is wrong (or judgmental, or arrogant) when he opines that the way someone else hunts is wrong, there isn't anything wrong with saying so.

Nice post Tas. I was trying to kind of say that but that O'Conner said it so much better. Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
ol army & sambar - much appreciated.

to all - i think it is important to keep in mind that the original question at hand is whether or not the proposed scenario is considered by YOU (each individual) to be hunting. when it comes to individual judgements, there isn't anything wrong with saying "this is right and that is wrong."

and so the corollary to your comment would be that if someone thinks a guy is wrong (or judgmental, or arrogant) when he opines that the way someone else hunts is wrong, there isn't anything wrong with saying so.

ol army - i guess that what i was trying to say is that, following the question originally submitted, if YOU think it is hunting or not hunting, then that's really all that matters; your mind is not likely to be changed just because of someone else's opinion and judgment as expressed on an internet forum, and two people can have completely opposite opinions on something and still be right....and wrong...at the same time.

and on the heels of that, it is absolutely not wrong to express that opinion, whatever it may be; after all, this is a country where free speech is held in the highest regard.

Last fall I shot my mulie buck at 515 yds (Swarovski range finder) with a 30-06 AI, 165 gr. Accubond, 3200 fps, 69 grs. MRP. One shot, one dead deer. I had no other choice. Regards, AIU

First, my creds:

I've competed (many moons ago) at Camp Perry out to 600 yards. Distinguished Expert with a smallbore too. Throw in that (once) I was a 27-yard trap shooter with a couple 100 straights at registered targets.

I've taken over 100 trophy critters, (including 3 of the Big 5 plus a hippo). I've culled a couple dozen gemsbok and warthogs.

I've whacked a couple thousand p-dogs. A lot of rockchucks too.

I've whacked several coyotes and one bobcat. Several hundred donkeys in Australia and a couple hundred pigs on a private island in Hawaii.

Now I'll admit that I'm about 20 years behind times when it comes to latest/greatest in optics, rangefinders, current accuracy stuff, etc.

All that said, I find 300 yards a serious long shot in the field. Yes, I've hit a couple critters at ranges beyond that ( particularly non-trophy type critters). But throw in wind and such and beyond 300 yards is difficult. Heck, there are only a couple ranges in my entire state over 200 yards! Where is it that so many people get all this long range practice?

I suspect a lot of people talk a good (long distance) game or maybe did it once or twice. But how many misses or woundings? I've tracked herds of elk in the snow of Wyoming and a half dozen were dripping blood from people shooting beyond their ability.

Is shooting (at) deer at 500 yards hunting? Most likely it is....hunting for blood drops that is.

'nuff said.

quote:

Is shooting (at) deer at 500 yards hunting? Most likely it is....hunting for blood drops that is.

Not really, you'd be surprised what the civilian is capable of with an appropriate rifle and adequate practice...

This doe was a 'bang-flop' at 640 yards with my 300 RUM. I shot from the shed in the background. Conditions were perfect, granted (no wind, deer feeding calmly, known distance, known drop from prior shooting at this distance, prone with bipod and rear sandbag). It just so happens that from this vantage point, I can cover around 80 acres, and am just as likely to take game at 100 yards as I am 700 yards... but I'm full prepared to do either.

The science of ballistics is NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. Virtually anyone is physically capable of making 100% clean kills at 500 yards... but there are very few who will spend the time practicing and learning when not to shoot. For every deer I've taken past 500 yards, I've passed up another 25 I didn't shoot because conditions weren't perfect for me. But I've yet to need a second shot on any animal, and most tracking jobs are less than 50 yards.

Again, is this hunting? Not really IMO. But again, I enjoy it just as much as getting within 30 yards with my bow.

Good lick Meglomaniac! You are one of 100! Maybe 1 of 1000! Certainly a better shooter than me.

Does cause me concern about the other 99? or 999? Where, and how often, do they shoot at 500 plus yards? Is it a matter of math and reading? Do they sight in at the 100-yard range and then check the ballistic charts and such? Their first 572 yard shot at some unsuspecting doe in yonder field? Opps!, musta missed.

Not trying to dis you as I will assume you have earned your long-range stripes, but I think 99 out of 100 have no business shooting at trophy critters at 400+ yards. Do a couple dozen 200 yard shots and see what happens before you assume a 400+ yard shot is simple.

I think if folks would stop using 100 yards as a benchmark and begin practicing at 300 yards, then 400 and 500, they'd soon realize that their rifle is certainly capable, plus it will help them fine tune their load techniques.

500 yards is a long shot if you choose to believe it. That said, I'm not implying that even if you practice at longer ranges more often that any animal should be considered just another target.

I've passed on a whole bunch of shots b/c conditions were not exactly right. That includes bow, muzzleloader, rifle, and pistol. But when conditions were favorable, I punched my tag and drove to the nearest game check station.

Agreed Matt, many don't have any business shooting past 200, much less 500. But I'm confident that I could take 90% of the hunters out there to my spot, let me dial in the dope and just have them pull the trigger with my rig, and clean kill would result.

Again, the tougher part is knowing when not to shoot. IE, a 160" whitetail was passed up at the very same spot a couple weeks prior due to a 10 mph wind. Did that bother me to watch such a brute walk away? Not in the least... That was the right call considering the conditions.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
I think if folks would stop using 100 yards as a benchmark and begin practicing at 300 yards, then 400 and 500, they'd soon realize that their rifle is certainly capable, plus it will help them fine tune their load techniques.

Can't disagree, but as was said earlier, not too many folks have access to a place where they can practice as far as 300 yds.

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
I think if folks would stop using 100 yards as a benchmark and begin practicing at 300 yards, then 400 and 500, they'd soon realize that their rifle is certainly capable, plus it will help them fine tune their load techniques.

Can't disagree, but as was said earlier, not too many folks have access to a place where they can practice as far as 300 yds.

I would agree with that for those who reside on the east side of the Mississippi. West of there, I respectfully disagree. I've been in every state in the US except Hawaii and Alaska. There are endless places to set up a target beyond 300 yards on more than the western half of the country.

I can shoot 900 yards here in Ohio on a bean/corn field, and 650 in KY on level ground, more than 1000 if I want to shoot downhill on a 3% grade.

Is it hunting? yes. Is it satisfying? that is up to each to determine.
Is it ethical?? that again is up to each.
I have friends that are ate up with the long shot, as I have been in my life.
I am still proud of the fact that I can, I know how and when, and I am mechanically prepared to take and make shots past 600 yards.
I don't anymore, probably because I have more than enough and it no longer makes me excited.
And if I cant get excited about it then I don't want to do it.
It is obvious though who is capable and ready to shoot like this and who isn't.
Equipment , caliber, and how everything is set up is the biggest part of it all.
Knowing when to touch one off and when to wait or pass is also a major part.
I have killed several elk from 450 out to 700 yards, a calf eating black bear at over 500 and too many deer to remember at ranges beyond what others would deem to be right.
I am proud of those shots, and glad to know that I can and have.
But to be honest anymore I can't find it in me to get very tore up about putting meat on the ground from that far away.
I guess that bowhunting has ruint me,, once you are close enough to hear their breath, and watch them blink nothing else compares in my book.
It does not mean that I am forever done with rifle hunting and I still have more damn guns than I could ever shoot and do not plan on getting rid of any..
But a peep sighted 30-30 or my old round top ruger 338 with a 1.5x5 are looking really good to me now.
My maxed out , long throated 7 mag that thinks it is an STW because I can seat my 140 grain Barnes out so dang far, and the various long throated 300WM'S that think they are Weatherby's with the Glass bedding and floated barrels and the match triggers all just dont make me all squishy inside anymore.

I think that if we all learned to be bow hunters first before we ever saw a rifle we would have a really different perspective on all this.