Have you ever ran into any poisonous snakes while hunting? I got too close for comfort to a Prarrie Rattlesnake last weekend while antelope hunting. I shot him and cut off the rattles, 7 buttons. Next year I'll have snakechaps!

Three times in Wyoming with prarrie rattlers; once while prarrie dog shooting during the summer, once on Oct 1st while antelope hunting, and once on Oct 15 or 16 while mule deer hunting. Within 4 feet close on all three occasions.

Encountered three King Brown snakes in the Northern Territories of Australia in September. Two were mating in the middle of a dirt road and posed no threat. The one in our shower room was a different story. They might be protected, but not in my outhouse!

And most recently in Namibia with some kind of a cobra (collared? banded?), eight feet long, and within 6 feet. Got the spread hood posture and everything. Close enough!

Just last weekend I was dove hunting outside Carrizo Springs in South Texas (first time). I was hunting over a planted field and a few doves whizzed over me and I swung and dropped one behind me in the brush. Went looking for it and started into the thick nasty stuff that South Texas is known for. I was suddenly surprised by a 5' long nasty, fat (with a major bulge from a recent critter, my dove???) rattlesnake. It was about three feet from me when I saw it, I about $H1T my britches and backed away and quickly let it have 1 1/4 oz of lead from my 12 bore SxS. So this California boy was laughing at all those camo'd boys wearing snake chaps while I hunted in my shorts, running shoes and tank top... Yikes they get big down there. I learned something (a few actually) that weekend.

I'm glad that all I have to worry about is rattlesnakes, cobras are more than I want to tackle. This snake almost got me, I was wearing baggy pants otherwise he probably would have. I was walking along when I felt something hit my leg, when I turned around, there he was all coiled and ratteling at me. 5 rounds from my 257 later he was done!

When I was working in Laos during the 70s the Meo tribsmen had cobra/mongoose fights for entertainment and betting. The fights were held in a pit similiar to the pits the Mexicans use for cockfights. One of the Special Forces guys we worked with had his Father send him four rattle snakes with an Air Force pilot friend from Carswell AF base in Ft Worth. One of our choppers picked the rattle snakes up in Udorne Thailand and deliverd them to the SF guy in Laos. The rattle snakes killed all the mongoose in the village in a week. Not very fair fights I guess because the rattlers were just too fast. Obviously the mongoose were not genetically prepared. Interesting.

I've stepped on rattlers twice while hunting. When my wife sees me jump into the air, running in place, she knows it's the snake dance. I've run into many rattlers and copperheads in Texas.

Ed-

Did you see a lot of dove in Carrizo Springs? My best friends brother has a lease down there and lets us hunt anything but deer. We were down there on opening weakend for dove and we both limited out every day easily. We were on a slope with a sunflower field at the top, and a waterhole at the bottm...very fun.

As for the snakes, I didn't see any but saw lot of there tracks accross the trails so I was definatley watching my step.

Not too many rattlers here that I have seen,we do have the pygme,and timber,most of what I run across are the cotton mouths and copperheads here in the swamps during early deer season,most of us have given up on chaps and have gone to either Rocky or Russell snake boots,have been bit twice now and don't like it,so my motto is if its with in striking distance it gets a load of snake shot out of the 357

I guess I'm the luckiest guy alive when it comes to rattlers. I've lived my whole life around them and other than ALWAYS watching out for the devils best I could...haven't worried about them much. Over the course of all this, I've stepped on a big rattler, stepped OVER a few rattlers, sat down beside a couple and practically KISSED a rattler when I bent over to retrieve a piece of .357 brass. <knock on wood> I've never been bitten and seldom been struck at.

What I'm saying is rattlers don't want to bite us much more than we want to get bitten. They have ALWAYS been gentlemen to me, thank the Lord!
(I haven't exactly returned the favor. )

A friend of mine bought some snake chaps and after trying them threw them away. I think the best medicine is tough boots and a wary eye.
ALWAYS LOOK before you step, reach, sit when you are in snake country. The times I almost got it were the times I didn't follow my own advice.

You have to understand, we don't get a whole heck of a lot of rattlers here in Illinois or across the river from me in Iowa. So... short of seeing them mostly in westerns or in zoos, I didn't see them at all.

Well, on one of my prairie dogging expeditions in the Rosebud/Valentine area, in 1997, three of us had finished decimating one area and were moving to another position. To save weight while walking, I put the ammo on the truck, one of the guys drove (it was only a couple hundred yards, if that), and me and the other guy carried our rifles. So... we were walking along, as the other guy drove ahead of us, and my buddy says "mmmmbblllmmmmblllmmmmblllmmmm"... and I turned and said "Huh?"... and he repeated "Watch out for the rattle snake in his hole." I turned my head back to looking in front of me, and about 20 feet out was a rattler all coiled up in the entrance of his den, giving me "the look." Ooooooooooooookay, fine. I just made a big circle to the left and gave Mr. Rattler plenty of space -- and vowed that after that, I would keep "some" ammo on my person, as well as my rifle, when I was walking to future positions.

It was one of those "We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto" awakenings. Very educational.

Russ

Snake chaps might work for you taller types but when you are a short $#%# like me it is useless. At my size I might be able to protect my lower legs but when I get tagged it will be a little farther north. Like the old joke, "Doctor says youre gonna die!"

My Dad's friend was hunting in Africa(he lives there 1/2 the year) and was struck several times by a black mamba. He had kevlar snake chaps on and was riding a horse. He said it felt like someone was punching him. He said the poisoon was so strong it wrecked the chaps. He said he was never so scared in his life. The horse died.

He has a fancy Sony digital camera that he takes tons of videos. He showed me this one video inside a cave where people from 100's of years ago marked the walls. All of a sudden the camera is facing a black mamba! He has 2 secs of film as he was trying to figure out what the camera was focusing on, then he was out of there!

Glad they are noy over here,don't want to mess with any thing that can strike like that,not to mention from a meter off the ground.

He had bruises on his leg afterward so this snake must hit awfully hard!

2 secs of film scared the shit out of me sitting on the couch! LOL!

He teaches mining over in Africa. He and his wife have been all over the world. They have excellent videos and pictures. His GPS has been used all over!

Mambas would make you think about hunting in a suit of armour like the knights wore! Growing up in the woods of Louisiana gave me an appreciation of poisonious snakes but at least we didn't have to deal with thoes!

Russell, your rattler in a hole story made me think of a new neighbor that moved in next to me years ago...in the good old days when I lived in the country.

I walked over to see him one afternoon and saw him puzzling over something in his back yard. I walked up and asked "What are you looking at, Scott?"

He said, "I think I found one of those "night hawk" birds nesting in the ground."

"What are you talking about?" I asked.

Scott took me a bit closer to a bush and pointed to the opening to a rabbit hole beneath the limbs. It took me a minute to realize what I was looking at.

"That's not a bird, Scott. That's a coiled rattlesnake."

Scott's eyes grew wide. "Really! I was gonna try to catch it and show my kids!"

He would have "caught it" all right!

[ 10-06-2002, 10:23: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

I've stepped over a number of rattlers while hunting. Five in one day hunting blue quail near Jal, New Mexico.

I bought a pair of snake chaps to hunt quail and dove here in Zulia and Falc�n state. I thought it would help me work through the cactus getting to downed birds. Turned out to be the biggest waste of money and most worthless hunting gear I ever bought. They are too heavy to move quickly in, and they are guaranteed to give you heat stroke here where it is 95 degrees and 95% humidity during hunting season.

we don't have any poisonous snakes here in the northern half of Alberta (rattlers in the south, though), thank God. I hate snakes, that Mamba story gave me the willies. - Dan

Dan,

If you hate snakes, you might not want to vistit some parts of Australia in summer time

Before the introduction of anti venom in the 50s, Australia's Coastal Taipan was probably the most dangerous or deadly snake in the world due to speed, aggression, willingness to bite, willingness to inject venom and very toxic venom. Death rate before anti venom was virtually 100%.

Mike

Well Mike, it's not that I won't go where the snakes are. I've worked in a lot of countries where everything that slithered was dangerous, I just hate them. Quite willing to kill every one I see or hear, no questions asked. We were working one time at one of the headwaters of the Amazon (Peru side), and some of the stuff those natives brought out of the jungle was amazing. Spiders the size of dinner plates, huge snakes, bugs that looked kind of like a dragonfly, but had a wingspan of about 9-10". Just astounding creatures, really. Never made me happy about going in the jungle, though. - Dan

Man, you have some INTERESTING responses here. This is a good post!

I guess I have a mixed bag in respect to running into snakes while hunting. We seldom see a snake while deer or bear hunting here in central California; but man, do we run into them while hunting varmints and wild hogs.

Down in the lower elevations of central CA where we hunt ground squirrels, coyotes, and wild hogs, we run into rattle snakes A LOT! We shoot several every year and I have been too close for comfort several times. And some of these suckers are big, I shot one that was 52 inches long and had 14 buttons right near a small lake where there where 60 people having a picnic one spring.

I guess the only rattlers I have run into out of state were encountered while prairie dog hunting in South Dakota, but there have been a few of them.

R F

My dad,and his buddy, took me on a fishing trip when I turned 10 and while we were out a rattler fell into the boat, it was a 18 foot fiber foam boat, my dad swore grabed his loaded 10 ga double barrel and gave the snake both barrels, all this while the snake was IN the boat. do you know how fast a snake can leave a boat when hes propelled by 2 loads of 10 ga BBB??? do you know how much water can get in a hole from 2 charges of BBB??

Also my neighbor was in the Army, stationed at Panama, they have a snake called the bushmaster, it holds the title of worlds hardest hitting snake, they once found a panamanion dead agains a fence poast, his leg broken from where the snake hit him. Also one man was struck in the forhead by one, it cracked the kevlar on his helet. And another friend of his told of a snake breaking the window on a hummer as it drove by, in all 3 instances the snake was killed by the force of the blow, but can you immagine being hit hard enough to break a kevlar helmet or your leg, I my self find the Hum Vee window a bit tough to swallow, but who knows, maybe IT did.

[ 10-08-2002, 07:04: Message edited by: Dark Paladin ]

Russell, Regarding rattler/cobra speed, I visited one of those snake/alligator places in Miami where they had a large king cobra. The snake guy got in the pen with him and waltzed around letting the snake strike at him. Each time the guy caught the strike with his hand just below the snakes head. The cobra was slower than rattlers I've seen strike. In addition the rattlers struck usually from a coiled position with their head initially close to their coils. The cobras in Loas struck from a head raised position. I've been told that the two pits just below a rattlers eyes are heat sensors. Maybe they use these for more accurate strikes? Maybe Holmes will enlighten us. Anyway the mongoose were not prepared for the rattlers type defense.

The Cobra "strikes" by using gravity to fall foward whereas the Rattler uses muscle power to actually strike at the target.

I expect the strike angle and speed is what caused the mongoose's demise in the contest.

amosgreg,what realy got the mongoose where the fold out fangs on the rattler,the corbas being fixed and fairly short are a little farther back in the mouth,the rattlers are hinged and pop out passed the front of his mouth when striking,I too used to watch the Rhade tribemen put on their shows,some thing else,
As an side issue,a kind off hunting,we were on iur way to set up an ambush at O dark thrity and the moon was just waning,as we started up the path I saw some thing laying in the middel and motioned for a halt,the RTO and thr LT came up real slow like,and we tryed to figure it out,even tho its been almost thrity years now I can still see the Corba as she rose up and started to hiss at us,I know time fades memory but I am 6"1" tall and she was as high as my waist.The LT decided that the ambush was a bust and the RTO shot her.turned out to be a good thing,when we walked up to her we found she had been staked out in the path,we put her in an empty alice and went back to camp,in the afternooin we pulled her out and measured her from stem to stern and she went 14'6"
we know it was a female because when she was skined out there were eggs found.The Rhades{Yards} always said they traveled in pairs I glad we didn't find out that nigh!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's a photo of the Puff Adder that crawled into the hide (blind) with my hunting partner and her Professional Hunter. The PH shot it's head off with a .22 rifle. It was about twelve inches from her foot when her PH shot it. Northern Province in South Africa in 2000. The snake's body in the photo has not been skinned. That's the natural body shape.

-Bob F.

Okay, that's it, I'm done. No more hunting. I think I'll take up quilting.

Interesting cobra story. I can believe the height. I still remember a story I heard many, MANY years ago, from a guy who spent time in 'Nam, telling me about when he just happened to be looking at a guy who was pulling guard duty one night when this "tall black thing" stood up behind the guy and nailed him in the neck. It was a cobra.

You know, I'm generally a follower of doctrine, in that you can't just drop bombs and hope for success... you have to send in ground troops. However, I think there should be exceptions... like, oh, I don't know... cobras. Just another reason to bring back napalm. I was always a big fan of napalm.

Also, I'm 6'5"... so any snake able to stand up as tall as some of these cobras... well, did I mention how much I wish they'd bring back napalm???

Russ

[ 10-09-2002, 04:10: Message edited by: Russell E. Taylor ]

257AI,
Rattlers and I have an understanding. I see snake, I kill snake. I had a close encounter of the unpleasnt kind when I was a Kid in Arizona. If your in front of me and I see or hear a rattler behind me, you are in a heap of trouble. I'm going to vacate the area NOW!!! If your between me and the way out, I'm going to lay footprints all over your body.

I read a story in one of the hunting mags years ago that some of you who live in Africa may recall. About 20 years prior too the issue, a man had been bitten by one of the mambas and died when the fangs penetrated his snake proof boots. Twenty years later the mans young son, now a man, tried on his fathers boots. He was scratched on the leg by one of the fangs that had killed his father, and died. That has to be one of the saddest stories I've ever read. The poor woman lost both her husband and son to the same snake.

My snake story:
Understand, I don't like snakes!
Was dove hunting in a cut over rice field. I was changing positions, walking through the field. Had my shotgun pointed down, in the crook of my arm -but loaded with the safety off. As I went to take a step over a small berm, I found myself looking at a cotton mouth, more or less between my legs. I just pulled the trigger on the shotgun, and kinda "elevated" about six feet away. The snake disappeard, -except for the parts, along with a lot of mud- that stuck to me...
Did I say I don't like snakes? Any snake?

Russel,when my dad was in Nam in the late 50's eary 60's,he told a story of his base camp being hit with rockets,ads he told it him and the Ensign ,both ran for the bunker and the camp marines were ahead of them.one marine beat them to the bunker and went in,and all of a sudden the inside lit up like the fourth of july,so every one came to a halt,out walks the marine with a krait hanging over the bbl of the model 12,dad said the head and tail were dragging the ground,oh yea they spent the rest of the attack setting on top of the bunker,butt naked other rhan their boots,seems no one wanted to go inside after that

Dave, help me out, here... what's a "krait?" A snake, I presume, but what kind?

Great story, by the way. War is Hell.

Russ

Russell,

Kraits(genus Bungarus) are a member of the elapid family with a distribution in southeast Asia. Elapidae is the same family that cobras, mambas, taipans, and coral snakes belong to... All bad ass snakes.

[ 10-09-2002, 07:23: Message edited by: DavidReed ]

I used to go see the mongoose/cobra fights every chance I got. I really was a big fan of the little rodents. Did I mention I hate snakes?
I didnt have any close encounters with snakes on this trip to RSA luckily. However I have to relay a story from one of the guys and his ph that were in camp with us. Craig was a bowhunter. He and Deon were sitting in a pit blind the week before I got there. Craig says to Deon, There is a goddamn snake! Deon in true ph fashion says. No, They are still all in hibernation.
Craig says, No I saw it stick its head through.
Deon says It must just be a long necked lizard dont worry about it.
About this time a snake (mamba) falls through the roof of the blind and is in a bad temper.
Deon yells Get the hell out of here and both he and Craig are out of the blind. They take a flashlight and look back into the blind but cant see the snake anymore.
You should have heard Craig telling this story around the fire with sundowners. It looses something in the translation. I was laughing so hard I had tears running down my cheek. I cant understand why but he refused to go back in that blind for the rest of the trip.

An entertaining thread, gentlemen.

The mongoose is definitely not programmed to deal with a pit viper. The cobra is completely vision oriented and the mongoose has little difficulty in avoiding their strikes. Cobras are very clumsy when trying any strike other than downwards. Interestingly, when dealing with humans, many cobras bluff-strike, that is, the mouth is not opened.

The cobra's musculature is designed to spread the small ribs that form the hood thereby making the serpent appear "bigger and badder" to the predator. The pit viper not only has specialised muscles for striking, they also possess enlarged vertebrae to enhance the same.

The pit vipers have two vomeronasal openings that focus and concentrate heat emmitance from endothermic prey/predators. This allows the viper to determine the size of the prey as well as its distance. The heat sensing pits allow the viper to strike the centre of mass, if you will. Accurate strikes in complete darkness represent no difficulty.

The mongoose exhibits minor resistance to the venom of the cobra species it encounters. This is not a complete protection but is probably evolving toward that end. The rattlesnakes do not occur within the mongoose range so it has no ability to resist the effects of a bite. Rattlesnakes deliver much more deeply than do cobras, as well. The cape cobra, one of the most deadly of all cobras, seems to terminate the mongoose quite nicely. This is a medium sized cobra that is yellowish or tan coloured and features a large distinct black band about its neck and hood. It is found throughout southern Africa.

The mambas are probably the most misunderstood of all the African snakes. The web site posted gives a bit of valid information but misses severely in other areas.

The black mamba is not the fastest snake species. It is swift, however, there are other species that equal it and exceed it.

As we have been propagating mambas in captive conditions for quite some time now, we know precisely when they are sexually mature.

The longevity of mambas exceeds twelve years quite handily. Several specimens have been documented at over 20 years. The web site is correct in its premise that wild mambas have a shorter span than do the captives.

A mamba can in no way digest a large rat in nine hours, as claimed on the web site. While the venom and gastrointestinal juices would certainly render an ingested rodent invisible to the naked eye in such a time frame, the digestion takes 36-48 hours for completion.

The web site also fails to mention the fact that there are two species of green mambas as well as an additional variety, Jameson's mamba. While the mambas are feared greatly, they do not represent the danger commonly attributed to them. If this were the case, we would see a much higher incidence of human envenomation and subsequent fatalities. There are other species that cause much more human misery and death.

The comments in this thread regarding the Kevlar protection are interesting. Why it would have been destroyed is a mystery to me. Mamba venom would certainly have no effect upon it. Additionally, a mamba cannot strike hard enough to bruise a human limb that is protected by such a covering. Mamba frontals are really rather delicate and their biting power is nothing dramatic. Their main claim to fame is the potent venom, the large frontally placed fangs, and the ability to deliver multiple successful strikes.

The bushmaster of South America....now there is a snake with a few fairy tales in tow! This snake is the largest species of pit viper. It is also damned rare, folks, damned rare! It is not capable of breaking anything more than a simple window glass, certainly not capable of breaking a human leg or a vehicle window. And then there is the infamous story of a bushmaster chasing a SF squad for several klicks....not hardly folks. Reptiles have a very antiquated cardiovascular system that does not allow extended aerobic mobility. The black mamba, as fast as it is, can do so only for short periods. It simply runs out of oxygenated blood.

The comments about the SE Asian cobras are quite interesting. The only cobras of that region that reach the quoted sizes are the King Cobra. Definitely a dangerous animal but an incredible one all the same. They do frequently pair up during the breeding season. Females often construct a nest which is unusual for reptiles and she has no problem defending that nest! The kings, by the way, are ophiophagous, that is, they feed exclusively upon other snakes.

As to the temperate rattlesnakes in this country; bear in mind their strike distance is limited to about 50% of their body length. It doesn't take much to stay out of their way. Additionally, research has demonstrated that 35-50% of strikes under normal field conditions involve no venom delivery. The adult rattlesnake has full control over its delivery apparatus.

The pictured puff adder is the smaller cousin to the infamous Gaboon adder. Large fangs and toxic venom result in a deadly package. Fortunately, they are not as aggressive as many species. Their strike range is limited, but their strike speed is incredible - much faster than a rattlesnake.

The story about the leather boots has been around for many, many years and there are also American versions of it pertaining to rattlesnakes. In any case, the story is invalid. Snake venom cannot retain its potency when exposed to the atmosphere for extended periods of time. Any liquid found on the fangs would quickly dry and lose its efficacy. While it is possible to experience minor localised effects from dried venom, there certainly would not be enough left with the necessary toxicity present to cause a human fatality. This is a story I am confronted with at virtually every public presentation I perform.

While venomous snakes can be a hazard, they are not enough of a danger to preclude enjoying one's hunt. Simple prevention is concurrent with a bit of education and first aid treatment in the event of an accident is quite simple.

For those of you participating in this thread who do not know me and may discount my comments in favour of popular support of serpent mythology, please be aware that I am a degree holding herpetologist, published author in several peer reviewed journals, and I work with numerous rattlesnakes, cobras, and mambas on a daily basis.

My residence has never been burgled!

Regards to all.

~Holmes

Sir
Is it possible that you may give more information as to the first aid treatment for such things as rattle snake bits in ARIZONA.
I have seen some big rattlers in Texas, some of which road kill's were longer than one lane!

Matt