With so many bullet makers producing "Deer" bullet in .224 diameter, they must be rather popular. I know that a lot of people use them and one can not ignore the many Deer taken succesfully each year with them.

Not me, but they recently became legal for deer in my state when the rules were changed from minimum .243/6 mm to any centerfire. Some use the .223/5.56 mm (.224 diameter) AR-15s for deer with great success. However, I don't because I feel it lacks the margin for error and knock-down at longer range of the .30 calibers.

However, if I was in the deer culling business and went thru a LOT of rounds, I'd seriously consider it as being cost effective.

They are allowed in Oklahoma if you shoot a 55 grain or larger bullet. Here is the exact regulation:

"Centerfire rifles firing at least a 55-grain weight soft-nosed or hollow-point bullet and having an overall cartridge case length of 1 1/4 inches or longer (9mm rifles are not legal). Clips or magazines of all .22 caliber centerfire firearms may not be capable of holding more than seven (7) rounds of ammunition."

The state has put no regulations on the type of bullet--just must be 55 grains or larger. It could be a varmint, or match bullet. I suppose it would be too much of a can of worms to try and regulate the type of bullet.

I've never used anything lower than a .243 for deer and don't know anyone who does, but there must be quite a few that do.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
With so many bullet makers producing "Deer" bullet in .224 diameter, they must be rather popular. I know that a lot of people use them and one can not ignore the many Deer taken succesfully each year with them.

After more than 50 years of deer hunting I've only seen two people use a .224 caliber centerfire for deer.

One was a guide from Valentine Nebraska who swore by his .220 Swift and it was his "go-to" deer rifle...the other was me when I used a .222 for smaller Texas deer one time only.

All the years I hunted Wisconsin where the law allowed "any centerfire" I never saw anyone using one and while the .223 is legal here I've never seen anyone use one.

The issue of .22 centerfires for deer is grossly overworked IMO.....it's extremely rare indeed!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
The issue of .22 centerfires for deer is grossly overworked IMO.....it's extremely rare indeed!

vapo: it's very common in Texas

I have used the 223 and 22-250 for deer.a friend had a Farm with too many Does and he would get crop damage permits.Just about any bullet in the head takes them out.

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
The issue of .22 centerfires for deer is grossly overworked IMO.....it's extremely rare indeed!

vapo: it's very common in Texas

I'll take your word for it....I've only hunted Texas once and it was about 30 years ago.

.22 for deer....I will pass....no thank you.

My Brother-in-law used my R-15 with the 22" barrel in .223 loaded with 53gr Barnes TSXs in front of BLC2. He killed the three deer he shot at with it with one round each and all three were pass throughs. One was a quartering to shot that penetrated about 18 inches of deer and got out the hide on the other side. He said none went more than 10 feet. He loves it, I'm not a big fan.

quote:

The issue of .22 centerfires for deer is grossly overworked IMO.....it's extremely rare indeed!

This topic has been beat to death on other Forums. I have a number of friends here in Montana that have regularly used their .22-250's or .220 Swift for deer, antelope, black bear, elk, and even buffalo.

Last January, I went to west Texas with two of them and they shared a .22-250. I was with them when they made one shot kills on 2 blackbucks, an addax, and a scimitar horned oryx.

It's been quite a few years since I hunted with my .22-250, but I have killed several deer and antelope with it. I have also made one shot kills on 4 or 5 deer with a .22 LR, but again, that was years ago and I am not advocating the .22 LR as a deer cartridge.

I don't agree with it.....but a good friend of mine only uses his Weatherby Mark V in 22-250 for deer.

I have used and seen used the 223 rem and 22-250 on deer. We used 55 FMJ's and 60 grain solid base noslers in the 223. With the FMJ's we liked the ones with flat tips, they were white box winchesters or maybe rem UMC. Its been awhile I dont remember. They all worked well and pass throughs were the norm. Personally I liked the solid base noslers. My buddy shot approximately 50 deer with his mini 14 over several years. Along with one brown bear which he shot 13 times head on and he said on the closest shots he thinks he could have hit the bear with his barrel.

In my 22-250 I used 70 grain speers and shot 4 deer one trip. One deer was about 20 feet away and I hit it in the shoulderblade it was the only broadside shot that did not exit.

I have killed deer with:
223 rem x1
22-250 rem x4
300 WSM x1
300Win Mag x8
338 Win Mag x2
9mm luger x1
41 rem mag x2
44 rem mag x1
454 Casull x2
Archery x2

Yes, My son and I have used a 22-250 with 53gr TSX's on over 3 dozen deer/antelope.

It works, have never recovered a bullet. This year we even shot two deer with the 45gr TSX. It worked. I posted pics of one deer on another thread. I will see if I can bring it back up.

Shot placement relegates all other discussions to secondary importance.

In Minnesota they just went to an "any centerfire" rule in the last couple of years. The DNR's comment (per the game wardens I talked to...) was that it was too difficult to police, and that they felt hunters would use their own good judgment for what was acceptable. A common comment was the use of a 6x223 wildcat and the fish cops not being able to tell instantly that it was a legal deer gun.

As far as I can tell, a .22 CF such as a .223 will work, but I would classify it as an expert's weapon- you must be a very good shot, you must know deer anatomy, you must be cool under pressure to turn away marginal shots, you must know your weapon to use the right bullet, and you must be a good tracker for following the occasional less than optimally placed hit. Heck the eskimos use .223's on polar bear... It will kill, but I doubt it is a good choice.

Given all the above, IMO, unless you really want to prove you are "better" than the rest, there are much better choices.

45gr TSX for deer thread

Check this out and peruse the small bore forum. Lot of information there.

I do not "pick" my shots any different than when I carrying my 270 , 338-06, or 9.3x64. A good shot presentation is just that.

I have tried to keep the 53gr TSX in deer by taking some frontal and severe quartering away shots. Two holes every time. The only times I have recovered any part of the TSX is when heavy bone was impacted and the petals sheared and stayed in the wound channel.

I have never lost a deer with 22 centerfire. But I imagine if I ever muff a shot bad enough it could happen, but then I have done that with 243's and 270's too.

I disagree with expert comment. I would use the term competent myself. Personally, if they are not competent, the caliber is not going to matter much.

quote:

The DNR's comment (per the game wardens I talked to...) was that it was too difficult to police, and that they felt hunters would use their own good judgment for what was acceptable. A common comment was the use of a 6x223 wildcat and the fish cops not being able to tell instantly that it was a legal deer gun.

I hunted deer in Minnesota from 1962 till 1999 and have continued to hunt in almost every state west of the Mississippi since then.......and in all that time was not even once asked to present my firearm for proof of it's compliance with any states laws nor do I know anyone that was asked for proof.

I was among those in Minnesota that built a 6 X 45 to circumvent the law.....and it worked just fine.

It seems that state laws generally about calibers are largely unenforced. I agree that hunters are a better judge in general than the state's laws.

A buddy just told me but does anybody know if it is true that Kalifornia now allows 22cal as well? they were ruled before I think minimum 24. anyways, sounds like a good excuse for a purpose built 224 clark which I have dreamed of off and on since first hearing of it a decade ago. birthed in Madera, CA (30 min from my town) it shoots 80-85 grain bullets.

Red

I won't be doing it.

This year alone:
I have shot and killed 2 bucks and a doe with a 223. Both bucks were shot in the neck and dropped at the shot. The doe was shot in the shoulder with a 55gr Balistic tip and exited. My cousin shot a doe with it as well; shot in the back of the head for an instant recovery. He also shot a buck with it with a 60gr partition through and through. Both shoulder shots recovered in 50 yards or less. No recovered bullets. In 20 years I have been hunting I have shot 0-5 deer each year with the .223.

I've used my 22-250 for probably a half dozen deer for 3-4 years. No problems when putting the bullet in the right spot. Deer don't run around with kevlar suits.

I shoot a 224TTH(6mm necked down to 22) at deer. I shoot a 70gr barnes X bullet at 3740fps. The spike buck I shot this year was quartering sharply at me and I hit right in front of the shoulder and bullet exited between the back of the ribcage and the front of the ham.

thanks
224TTH

I know someone that after a pretty extensive neck surgery was very concerned about recoil. He loves to hunt and decided to buy a 22-250 and give it a try, thinking that after everything healed he could keep it around for a coyote gun etc. So far I think he has taken two deer with it and says it has worked just fine. I do think that he is quite careful with his shots though. Personally I have no experince with them, although I was on a hunt in Misouri where a local farmer brought by a huge buck he had taken that morning with his trusty 222. I was quite supprised to find most of the local hunters I ran into in that area owned 25 caliber or smaller rifles, and looked at my 300 Win Mag like it was a 500 nitro.

When my son was 8 I was worried about him
developing a flinch so i cut the stock of my Remington 788 in 222 REM. I watched him shoot
4 deer the first year at any where from 30-100
yds all one shot kills very impressed with the 55 grain pills.

I took my 11 year old to Africa this past summer. He was developing a flinch even with a .243 Win, so I bought him a .223 Tikka. The rifle loved the 55 grn Fusion loads and he shot them well. I was a bit nervous about him using such a small caliber, but the flinch problem was not acceptable to me. He made one shot kills with that little rifle on 2 impala, a wharthog, a blesbuck, a Mtn Rhebok, 2 springbuck, and a duiker. The effectiveness of that little bullet amazed me.

I personally would not choose a.223 for deer, but under the appropriate circumstances for a young hunter who can shoot the round accurately and needs that "no recoil" load to be able to shoot accurately..... well, it certainly worked in South Africa on deer sized game (impala, wharthog, blesbuck).

My personal preference on deer is a bullet that is accurate and will pass through, leaving a blood trail should the deer need to be tracked. I like a big enough exit hole to prevent the hide from sealing it up. My personal preference for eastern white tail has been the .308 and .270 with bonded bullets. Again, that's my personal preference. I have seen people drop deer in their tracks with all sorts of other rifle and bullet combos. I have also used lots of other loads on deer with great sucess (.338 Win, .243 Win, 7MM Mag., 20 and 12 gauge slugs, etc.).

A few years ago I helped a friend track the second TX Hill Country doe he shot with a 223 loaded with 60-grain Partitions. Shot straight through both lungs, somehow this deer managed to go roughly 400 yards, leaving nothing more than pinhead-sized drops of blood after about 50 yards. We found her but it took right at 1-1/2 hours. At times the blood drops were as far apart as 20-25'.

This was the second year in a row he had shot a deer with his H&K bolt action 223, and once we found it, I told him in no uncertain terms that if he shot another deer in the ribs with that 223 I was going to tie a knot in the barrel. And I meant it.

No doubt the bullet kills. I am just of the unshakeable position that the exit hole is too small to "paint me a trail where they went".

I have a pair of 223s, a pair of 6mms, and a 22-250. I will use my .270, the Whelen or the 7 Mag... I don't like to spend good "camp time" tracking a deer if it isn't necessary.

Just my $.02

That was the only thing with the 22 cals, with the majority of the deer I saw shot with them any kind of a bloodtrail was a rarity. Trailing would be mostly tracks and the dot of blood every few feet to confirm the trail was the right one.

Except for the one deer I shot with the 223. It had its front half behind a tree and some brush so I shot the deer right in the crease of the rear leg and hip. It was a perfect artery hit and the deer just layed down and by the time we went the 50 feet to the deer it was already laying in the largest pool of blood I have ever seen in one puddle from any animal I have seen shot.

Before anyone flames me for admitting that shot take a look at my previous post and see that I like to use larger cals for deer.

22's???... sure.... .225 m70 made in 1965... my .225 had accounted for over 15 clean 1-shot kills, some have been shot 2x as it was a spine or shoulder shot... none have been lost, yet...but ive always taken time for a good shot, and passed up several questionable 1's... longest was just over 250 yds, shortest has been 10 (or less)

A buddy of mine has used a 223 Rem exclusively for deer since high school. He kills two blacktails in California every year and has never lost one that I know of.

I've killed a couple with a 223AI (along with a bunch of hogs), but they were targets of opportunity. I'd not carry one specifically for deer, not because I don't have faith that it would get the job done, I just prefer to shoot my 270 or 257 Wby.

Just goes to show once again that animals are not that hard to kill. In general I think people make way too big a deal about caliber debates.

Damnit jwp! I think I'm getting to know you too well!

It seems that most of the guys shooting deer with the small calibers live in the Southeast or Texas. Everybody is posting about shooting 4 or 5 or more deer a year! I know you all have an overpopulation and they're tiny. This is where the other miscommunication comes in. The size of the deer.


When I think of a deer, I'm thinking of these:




















Please tell me that using the .223 on any of these REAL deer wouldn't even cross your mind! I would never!

We don't get to shoot more than one a year and you're damn lucky to get a tag for anything. The deer population has been declining since the '70s for many reasons; elk encroachment, no predator control, lack of habitat, re-introduction of wolves, etc.

I understand that your deer are much smaller and I think this is why we don't understand each other.

You guys are using the .223 on deer that look like this:











A .223 will work well for these and I agree with you. I would even use one.

Through the years, I have head shot MANY does using the 223 with 69gr Sierra match bullets and have never lost a one. Distances were all less than 200 yds.

There is a deer hunter that live local and he kills a lot of Deer with either a m-600 18 1/2" barreled 243 or a 264 win mag. He is convinced that the 243 is a better killer, because he had had less run with the 243. Does his claim make it so, not IMHO. I guarenty you that he doesn't pay attention to exactly what orgon or where the bullet hit each animal, the fact that the deer have dropped on the spot for him only nmeans that has been his experience and nothing eles. If it works for you IMHO carry on
I personaly have never ever used a 243 or 22 CF on Deer, but it doesn't mean that I wouldn't, because too amny people use them with perfect results too believe that they would not work

A gentleman I know uses his .22-250 for deer in Ireland every year. Head shots only.

A friend of mine in Nebraska also used a .223 for a few years when money was tight. Head shots, and DRT.

I've killed probably two dozen deer with a 22 rimfire shooting 22 short hollow points and subsonic long rifle lead hollow points. Seldom had to shoot one twice....

still dosen't make a .22 rimfire a good deer HUNTING rifle cartridge.....deer rifles START at .24......

Earlier this year, about 3 counties away from me, a cowboy working on a big ranch lost his temper and shot 50 bison that kept tearing through the fences from a neighbors place. The bison belonged to an absentee owner from another state that thought it was perfectly okay to turn such critters loose without investing in propper fences to hold them. He was repeatedly called to no result. The cowboy shot untill he ran out of cartridges and drove to town and purchased more to finish the job. He used his .22-250 coyote rifle. By the way, he was no billed by the Grand Jury, probably because he had never done anything else illegal in his life and they thought the owner was a jackass of a neighbor.

Interesting to see on this thread and other threads about all the lads that are taking deer with .223 and 22-250. For something that is not supposed to be possible, a lot of it is being done with great results.

This must be an irritate to those with theories and opinions on why it shouldn't be working out as well as the actual experience.

Years ago while living in Louisiana my 10 year old son took his first deer with a .223. He had an issue with recoil and I could not find a 243 I could afford. Friend sold him a Ruger ranch rifle with a 5 rd clip. Boy was an excellent shot with his pellet rifle so I told him 4 rds, 1 shot one deer. That's what he did. I did reload for him and used a 60 grain bullet. Today, he's bringing his sons along with a .44mag single shot. Me, I took two Indiana deer with a 357mag rifle. All about shot placement. May have to get the grand sons a 357mag for next year.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
Interesting to see on this thread and other threads about all the lads that are taking deer with .223 and 22-250. For something that is not supposed to be possible, a lot of it is being done with great results.

This must be an irritate to those with theories and opinions on why it shouldn't be working out as well as the actual experience.

Note also that several commented on using a .22RF with multiple 1 shot kills. None of them so far have said that it is an "adequate deer rifle."

With good enough shooting and the right situation it is certainly possible to do a good job. The question remains can the user reliably guarantee that he will limit himself to those situations? Will he even know if he is not?

Using cherry picked statistics I can prove to you that the ideal self defense weapon is a carpenter's claw hammer.

I shot a 210 lb 8 pt. buck (we weigh every deer before we process it)on my lease in MS. Went to a food plot to shoot our mandatory management doe and the buck showed up. 1 shot with .223, 55 grain Remington green box soft points. Shot just behind the shoulder at 130 yrd, small exit hole, he died 70 yards away, bad ass destruction inside. I was very impressed. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a whitetail deer with a clear shooting lane, any size. BTW, I have shot a lot of deer, so I am very experience.

i have shot a few with a 222and 22/250. Precise shooting is a must. Body shots in the ribs and you will take out lungs. Neck shots will be a dream as long as the wind lets the bullet fly straight. A marginal shot cannnot be taken and shot thru brush will have bullet fly wherever you DONOT want it too.
But I personally like the Barnes TSX'x they will not vaporize like the copper lead combinations.

Mike

Very nice Sitka Black Tail taken with 223AI

http://24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ics/4715848/all/Toad