I'm curious as to the effectiveness of a .257 (Bob, 250, 25-06,etc) on elk. Do they run 100 yds, 200yds? Lay up and die?
My daughter shot a young bull this year with a 180gr 308, perfect heart lung shot. It ran 25 yards stopped and she made a second perfect shot. The elk collapsed, regained its legs, then was down for the count. Both shots the bull barely reacted.
So a bullet almost half the weight? Results?

Perry

There has been mention on this site of using various .257's on elk. Like any caliber hitting them in the right place with an adaquate bullet remains most important. If my kid was good with one I sure would let them use it. Just keep the range within reason.

Regarding a lack of reaction to the shot, elk are tough and even a cannon sometimes elicits no response. I wouldn't use that as a criteria when choosing a gun.

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
I'm curious as to the effectiveness of a .257 (Bob, 250, 25-06,etc) on elk. Do they run 100 yds, 200yds? Lay up and die?
My daughter shot a young bull this year with a 180gr 308, perfect heart lung shot. It ran 25 yards stopped and she made a second perfect shot. The elk collapsed, regained its legs, then was down for the count. Both shots the bull barely reacted.
So a bullet almost half the weight? Results?

Perry

Happens with a lot of calibers.

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
There has been mention on this site of using various .257's on elk.

Regarding a lack of reaction to the shot, elk are tough and even a cannon sometimes elicits no response.

That is what peaked my interest. I hunt wtd with a 100gr bullets in my 257 Bob and routinely they run 10-25 yds when hit in the heart lung area with not cns shock. So with an animal 5 times their size...??? Got me wondering

I wonder if an elk is so large and tough that anything from a .224-308 is going to elict the same reaction with the same results, a perfectly shot elk dead on its feet. Here is my real question, does a perfectly shot elk drop any sooner if it is hit with a 270-30/06 than it would a 243-257??

Just some rainy day thinking

Perry

quote:

There has been mention on this site of using various .257's on elk. Like any caliber hitting them in the right place with an adaquate bullet remains most important. If my kid was good with one I sure would let them use it. Just keep the range within reason.

Regarding a lack of reaction to the shot, elk are tough and even a cannon sometimes elicits no response. I wouldn't use that as a criteria when choosing a gun.

That is as good an answer as one can get.

From a few years experience, and not just with elk, but with a wide range of calibers, both as a hunter making the shot and as a guide getting a hunter set up to take the shot, I have rarely had or seen a heart shot animal, regardless of the animal, drop on the spot at the hit.

IMHO elk are not really impressed by any bullet smaller than .338 caliber. Any bullet that punches a hole in their heart will kill them but it may take a while for them to go down. What they do during this time is up to them. .30 caliber and smaller bullets don't really get an elks attention. 243-257, no blood trail, good chance of a lost elk.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

There has been mention on this site of using various .257's on elk. Like any caliber hitting them in the right place with an adaquate bullet remains most important. If my kid was good with one I sure would let them use it. Just keep the range within reason.

Regarding a lack of reaction to the shot, elk are tough and even a cannon sometimes elicits no response. I wouldn't use that as a criteria when choosing a gun.

That is as good an answer as one can get.

From a few years experience, and not just with elk, but with a wide range of calibers, both as a hunter making the shot and as a guide getting a hunter set up to take the shot, I have rarely had or seen a heart shot animal, regardless of the animal, drop on the spot at the hit.

Crazy Horse nailed it. I've shot elk with a 300RUM and 54cal ML and blacktail with a 257Bob to a 375H&H. Probably the longest run after a heart shot was the little 100lb buck with the 375. He went full tilt for 100 yards leaving a Stevie Wonder blood trail.
Only way you get DRT is CNS.

Growing up we always hunted with my best friend's dad. He was a DIE HARD Elk Meat hunter. He LIVED for Elk hunting.He jogged everyday to stay in shape for the mountains. Although he had a house full of rifles in every caliber imaginable his Favorite Elk rifle was an old Weatherby in 257 Magnum. I can not recall him ever losing an Elk with that rifle,and he got one every year!!! It's not a 257 Bob but a 257 none the less?

quote:

Probably the longest run after a heart shot was the little 100lb buck with the 375. He went full tilt for 100 yards leaving a Stevie Wonder blood trail.

I have posted it on here before a couple of times, but I had almost the exact same thing happen, Buck was about the same size, went about 70 yards maye, over a creek bank and was laying at the edge of the water. What amazed me was that the buck was less than 50 yards from me when I hit him with a .375 Barnes "X" Flat Base, 250 grain out of my .375 H&H. At that range, even at 50 yards it had not dropped that much off of both muzzle velocity and energy.

In my experience, again regardless of caliber, I have had critters travel less distance with a hit to the liver than the heart, and with lungs they run till they run out of air.

It still goes back to proper placement with a bullet that will provide the desired performance. The only comment I would add is that for elk I think there is a range limitation of 50 yards or so less for the Robert's than for the .25-06 and especially the .257 Weatherby, that is just my opinion, and everyone knows about opinions.

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
I'm curious as to the effectiveness of a .257 (Bob, 250, 25-06,etc) on elk. Do they run 100 yds, 200yds? Lay up and die?
My daughter shot a young bull this year with a 180gr 308, perfect heart lung shot. It ran 25 yards stopped and she made a second perfect shot. The elk collapsed, regained its legs, then was down for the count. Both shots the bull barely reacted.
So a bullet almost half the weight? Results?

Perry

Perry
There is no cartridge that will knock an Elk down, despite what you may hear.
I've seen Elk shot with a variety of cartridges from .243's on up to .338 Win Mag and honestly none were any more impressive than another a lot of it depends on the Elk.
I watched my brother shoot a big bull 68 yards right in the sweet spot, double lung 338 WM and 3 shots there was no reaction at all until it just walked over and fell down. Have seen the same with several rifles.
The best advice no matter what cartridge you shoot is to put a bullet of good construction where it is supposed to go and keep shooting until the hooves are in the air. Do not shoot then admire your shot you must continue to shoot until it is down otherwise you may have a tracking job or you will be packing him out of the "steep" thick shit because that's where they go when hurt.
I been around a lot of dead elk and the above advice is sound.

Many years ago when I was in my twenties I worked with a guy who used a 30-30 for elk (not uncommon at the time in Washington state).

One day he asked if I wanted to go hunting after work. So we drove out to one of his favorite spots. As I pulled my gun out of the case, a 7x57 Mauser his eyes got big and said that thing must really kick. I thought that was kind of odd until I saw his rifle.

To him his .30-30 was enough. Up to that point he had taken an elk each year and if I remember right his total was something like nine. Now we are talking Roosevelt elk here which can be a bit heavier than a Rocky Mountain elk.

Point is he used a gun he had faith in and put the bullet in the right place each time. The place we hunted was pretty thick so any shots where going to be at pretty close range.

Perry[/QUOTE]

Perry
There is no cartridge that will knock an Elk down, despite what you may hear..[/QUOTE]

Saw a video where a guy used a .416 Weatherby. Did just that.

A Sharps 45-110 will knock an elk off his feet. I have done it myself, and I have seen a friend do it with his 45-110.

my grandson killed a 9' coastal grizzly with his 257 Roberts using 120 gr. bullets, 1 shot behind the shoulder at 75 yards, bear went 50 yards at a walk after getting back up on his feet from shot and fell dead...I do not see why it would not do the same on elk.
I've personally killed a dozen or so with stick and string without needing to blood trail more than 100 yards on any of them.

Thanks gentlemen.

So its sounds like the reaction to bullet impact is the same whether you are using a 22 or 338. No one mentioned an elk taking any longer to bleed out so I'll assume that is also the same.
In conclusion I'll assume that, like with everything hunted (non dangerous-game), a larger bullet leaves a better blood trail for recovery but has little impact on lethality.

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
Thanks gentlemen.

So its sounds like the reaction to bullet impact is the same whether you are using a 22 or 338. No one mentioned an elk taking any longer to bleed out so I'll assume that is also the same.
In conclusion I'll assume that, like with everything hunted (non dangerous-game), a larger bullet leaves a better blood trail for recovery but has little impact on lethality.

Perry

You got it.They all will kill.Elk are not bullet proof.Some folks think a larger caliber bullet makes up for poor marksmanship.My grandfather killed everything from Canadian Moose to UP black bear with his big rifle a Model 92 in 32-20.Its where the bullet goes.In a 257 I would use a partition or a Barnes bullet in case you need to take a shoulder shot.JMHO,OB

A gut shot elk with a 338 is just a gut shot elk. My Dad shot a 25-06 on elk and never lost one. Spikes to mature bulls. You hit them in the right spot and they die.

I find it funny when guys say it takes a 30 cal or larger to consistently kill elk. To me it shows they don't have much experience hunting elk.

When you guys say "knocked off its feet" are you saying lung shot/heart shot or is the shot effecting the central nervous system? I've knocked elk off their feet with high shoulder shots from 7mm cal. I've seen many elk shot with large bores and the only ones that get knocked off their feet are hit CNS.

quote:

Originally posted by MC:
A gut shot elk with a 338 is just a gut shot elk. My Dad shot a 25-06 on elk and never lost one. Spikes to mature bulls. You hit them in the right spot and they die.

I find it funny when guys say it takes a 30 cal or larger to consistently kill elk. To me it shows they don't have much experience hunting elk.

When you guys say "knocked off its feet" are you saying lung shot/heart shot or is the shot effecting the central nervous system? I've knocked elk off their feet with high shoulder shots from 7mm cal. I've seen many elk shot with large bores and the only ones that get knocked off their feet are hit CNS.

That is what I meant when I stated earlier that there is not a cartridge that knocks elk down. A CNS hit, yes they go right down but drive a bullet through the heart and lungs, sometimes they take the hit and fall down or they act like they may go back to eating. I'm sure I've seen 40+ elk go down over the years and I've never seen one knocked down unless it was hit in the CNS somewhere.
Point being that I would happily shoot my next Elk with my .257 Roberts and a 117 grain Sierras and have no second thoughts about it, I would take any shot 400 yards and under that gives me a reasonable heart lung shot, no different than I would with my 30/06 or 338 Win Mag.
No matter what rifle you use don't expect Elk to act like whitetails and suck up their legs and flop on the ground unless you hit the CNS.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:

quote:

Originally posted by MC:
A gut shot elk with a 338 is just a gut shot elk. My Dad shot a 25-06 on elk and never lost one. Spikes to mature bulls. You hit them in the right spot and they die.

I find it funny when guys say it takes a 30 cal or larger to consistently kill elk. To me it shows they don't have much experience hunting elk.

When you guys say "knocked off its feet" are you saying lung shot/heart shot or is the shot effecting the central nervous system? I've knocked elk off their feet with high shoulder shots from 7mm cal. I've seen many elk shot with large bores and the only ones that get knocked off their feet are hit CNS.

That is what I meant when I stated earlier that there is not a cartridge that knocks elk down. A CNS hit, yes they go right down but drive a bullet through the heart and lungs, sometimes they take the hit and fall down or they act like they may go back to eating. I'm sure I've seen 40+ elk go down over the years and I've never seen one knocked down unless it was hit in the CNS somewhere.
Point being that I would happily shoot my next Elk with my .257 Roberts and a 117 grain Sierras and have no second thoughts about it, I would take any shot 400 yards and under that gives me a reasonable heart lung shot, no different than I would with my 30/06 or 338 Win Mag.
No matter what rifle you use don't expect Elk to act like whitetails and suck up their legs and flop on the ground unless you hit the CNS.

Exactly,

As the caliber gets smaller on elk you've got to get more picky with your shot selection.

Surestrike

I told my daughter as we were starting our hunt that she was going to shoot the elk, assuming we found one, as many times as she could before it stopped breathing. I quoted your tag line about a good hunt going bad but I could'nt remember where I had seen it.

Perry

I killed my first two spikes with a 243 shooting 105g Speer spitzers at 3000 fps. Both shot broadside, high heart/lung shot at less than 150 yards. Neither one went more than 30 yards. I wouldn't take any other shot with a 243 or a 257 Roberts. I traded up to my big 270 Win, which has accounted for a lot more elk. 150g Partitions at 3000 fps is more better.

It's all about blood loss. What kind of country are you in and how far do you want to track them.

quote:

Originally posted by eny:
It's all about blood loss. What kind of country are you in and how far do you want to track them.

Thick brush and not far if I can help it!!!

Back in 1979 I went on my first DIY bighorn Sheep hunt in one of Montana's Unlimited Bighorn tag areas in the Wilderness Area east of Gardiner, MT. The previous year I put together my dedicated deer rifle, a .257 Ackley Improved in a Mauser Mark X action in a Fajen fancy walnut stock. My load for it was 117 grain Sierra GameKing bullets at 2900 fps. That was the rifle that I took in on that hunt.

I was totally unfamiliar with that area, but one of my friends that had grown up in Gardner had seen sheep there and he told me what trail to go in on. I backpacked a camp in about 10 miles from the trailhead. By the third day I hadn't seen any rams but I had seen or heard elk bugling every day. So the third morning I left my camp heading to an open ridge to glass for sheep and I hear a bull bugle just ahead of me in the timber.

Then when I saw those ivory tipped dark antlers moving through the lodgepole pines less than 100 yards from me my sheep hunt ended. The bull stopped broadside about 75 yards from me and let out a loud bugle. Before his bugle ended, I put a 117 grain Sierra just behind his shoulder, and he simply collapsed dead. That was the quickest elk kill that I have ever made. He was also the second largest 6x6 bull that I have ever shot, and I finally had him mounted so I can still enjoy seeing him every day.

I shot a number of elk with a 250-3000 and one or two with a 257 Robts and even the lowly 25-35 Win. in my misspent cowboy youth cause I didn't know better..

Used whatever box of ammo I picked up at Shuddies Hardware..A few fell to the shot and other ran up as much as 50 yards...Get close and place the shot behind the shoulder and they kill as well as any caliber, but you must have enough control to pass on iffy shots, that's your job...Today I shoot elk at longer ranges, they have become smarter btw and I use a .338 Win most of the timem and I will shoot from almost any angle that leads to the heart/lung area. Would I use those 25 calibers today, I would without hesitation, but would be at a disadvantage and elk today do not come easy as a rule.

I once killed an elk with a .270 using 130gr bullets. It ran off about 50 yards and died. Broke both shoulders.

Jack O'Conner killed dozens of elk with the .270 and 130 gr bullets and his wife (Eleanor, I think) killed a few with the .257 Roberts.

A friend I was hunting with killed his elk with a .250 Savage. It was about a 150 yd running shot and the elk (a cow) ran less than 80 yards. A nice one shot kill.

BH63

I knew a guy up north here in NM who filled his freezer with elk every year using a .22 WMR. He's gone now, but he never took a shot he couldn't make, and always shot them just behind the ear. I'm not advocating the use of such a cartridge, but keep in mind: a faster, heavier bullet doesn't make up for a bad shot.

Of course any rifle or cartridge will kill any animal under proper circumstances..I am confident by experience that I can kill and elk or whatever with a 25-35, 30-30 and probably a .22 L.R. if I can get close enough, but I would sure have to pass up some iffy shots. I had to watch a couple of monster bucks and one monster elk just graze off because I couldn't get close enough for a shot with my lighter caliber rifles, same with bow hunters, muzzle loading rifles, know your limitations and your rifles limitation. Are you willing to put yourself in a position to have to pass up the shot, are you in a country where you would dare, If your using a 25-35 on elk would you allow a big bull to just walk off because he was 225 yards? If you live on a ranch with those animals available and you can just wait until you get a 100 yard shot then your fine, but if your a weekend or paying hunter, it would be foolish to not be packing a 300 or .338 IMO..I hunt elk these days with a .338 Win. Its better than the 300 or 30-06 IMO..Im sure as hell not ashamed of using a bigger gun.

Customers of GSC have shot many kudu and eland with a 25-06 in Africa. Sure, an elk is bigger than a kudu by about 50% but an eland is much bigger. I see no reason why an elk would not react in similar fashion. It all depends on what the bullet was designed to do. If you place the shot forwards of the diaphragm, it is time for the skinning knife to come out.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Of course any rifle or cartridge will kill any animal under proper circumstances..I am confident by experience that I can kill and elk or whatever with a 25-35, 30-30 and probably a .22 L.R. if I can get close enough, but I would sure have to pass up some iffy shots. I had to watch a couple of monster bucks and one monster elk just graze off because I couldn't get close enough for a shot with my lighter caliber rifles, same with bow hunters, muzzle loading rifles, know your limitations and your rifles limitation. Are you willing to put yourself in a position to have to pass up the shot, are you in a country where you would dare, If your using a 25-35 on elk would you allow a big bull to just walk off because he was 225 yards? If you live on a ranch with those animals available and you can just wait until you get a 100 yard shot then your fine, but if your a weekend or paying hunter, it would be foolish to not be packing a 300 or .338 IMO..I hunt elk these days with a .338 Win. Its better than the 300 or 30-06 IMO..Im sure as hell not ashamed of using a bigger gun.

I have killed 9 elk, 5 of them 6 by or better, only one spike, and all with a .338 WM. I wouldn't dream of using a .257...why limit yourself? Because you can't afford another rifle? Because you think a .257 is better than a 300 or 338 Mag?

Why do you care about someone's reason?

Why did it take a 338 WM for you to kill an elk? Were you willing to take marginal, questionable shots? Just trying to "get one in him". Up his rear, through his guts, or bust some brush? Iffy shots are ok because it is a 338WM and not a 7Mag or a 257 Weatherby?

I just don't get the mindset that poor shot selection is made up by a larger bore. I tire of fellows who say they shoot larger bores to give them more options, as they are always the ones I have to help recover wounded game.

But this topic and discussion has been around since the dawn of guns and is a yearly banter on the net. People should talk about bullet selection, shot placement, and then the least important topic of bore size.

quote:

Originally posted by MC:
Why do you care about someone's reason?

Why did it take a 338 WM for you to kill an elk? Were you willing to take marginal, questionable shots? Just trying to "get one in him". Up his rear, through his guts, or bust some brush? Iffy shots are ok because it is a 338WM and not a 7Mag or a 257 Weatherby?

I just don't get the mindset that poor shot selection is made up by a larger bore. I tire of fellows who say they shoot larger bores to give them more options, as they are always the ones I have to help recover wounded game.

But this topic and discussion has been around since the dawn of guns and is a yearly banter on the net. People should talk about bullet selection, shot placement, and then the least important topic of bore size.

Because MC, because the .338 is a better elk round. I am going brown bear hunting in Oct...should I take a .257? Hint: my outfitter strongly recommends a .300 WM as the minimum. Why do I use a .416 on buffalo? Because it is better than a .375.

These days I generally hunt with a guide. And more and more, once you draw blood your hunt is over. So no, I don't take marginal shots, but what is marginal with a .257 is totally doable with a .338. I can also use a .375 H&H or even a .416 for elk. Do I? No, it is gives me no advantage over the .338. Put it this way: other than being easier to shoot, and therefore a cartridge you might be intimately familiar with in terms of trajectory, I can't think of a reason to use a .257 on elk. But even if you are intimately familiar with a .257...are you going to take a 350 yard shot on an elk with one? With a .338 it is a piece of cake.

The point to my post is that there are better cartridges for elk than a .257, as witnessed by the very fact this topic is debated. Ever seen a post that asks if the .338 is enough for elk?

I think Mr Atkinson has it pretty right. I have killed in the neighborhood of 40 elk and been around another 20-30. About 35 yrs ago I passed on a shot with my 25-06. Just wasn't sure of a killing shot. Used a 30-06 for the next 6-8 yrs and then got a .270WSM. Killed a lot of elk with that rifle and 150 gr bullets. Hit them in the heart/lungs and they usually don't go far. A friend of mine has killed well over 100 head. Used to guide some too. 40 yrs ago he filled 3 and sometimes 4 tags a yr. Illegal, but done a bit more back then. He always used a .270 w/ 130 gr partitions. It really is about placement, unless they get the adrenaline going. My dad took a bull about 53 yrs ago that was in the top 50 B@C at the time. Hit a leg and the heart. He claimed it went close to 1/2 mile. We always kept shooting while they are standing....
Another friend of mine manages a ranch in MT where they have done some depradation hunts. In 2 yrs he has helped take 76 head of elk. He REALLY prefers the .300 WM and bigger for clean fast kills. He has more hands on experience than most of us so it doesn't hurt to consider his opinion. Smaller calibers/bullets will work. Why risk not having the ideal shot and not getting your animal. Bruce

Here is a video of an elk I shot. Go to 6:20. The elk is close, but quartering toward me. I put the bullet on the shoulder. Not sure if that would have worked as well with a .257. Perhaps...I will never know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkBRlFb0mrE

Watched your video. Quartering to you? Um, it looked broadside to me, you being on the right of the camera, maybe even quartering away. Impact looked like you drilled him and he still ran (in reference to the dropped in their tracks posts form others above) then it looked like you CNS'ed him. Nice shot on the run by the way. And I'd wager he'd be just as dead with a 25-06 in that position, but we will never know.

You feel the need to carry large because you hunt with outfitters and pay. Nothing wrong with that, just like there is nothing wrong with another person carrying their 25-06 which they are confident in.

Your outfitter says he wants a 300WM as the minimum. What does that have to do with anything? It is just their opinion. Brown bears? Cape buffalo? Nothing to do with elk.

A marginal shot is a marginal shot. An iffy shot is an iffy shot. A larger bore doesn't make up for poor shot placement. And maybe a guy shooting a 25-06 will pass a shot here or there. Probably happens as often as the guy who tries an "iffy" shot on a bull in the butt with his 338WM and loses it. A gut shot elk with a 338 WM is still just a gut shot elk.

"Put it this way: other than being easier to shoot, and therefore a cartridge you might be intimately familiar with in terms of trajectory, I can't think of a reason to use a .257 on elk. But even if you are intimately familiar with a .257...are you going to take a 350 yard shot on an elk with one? "
Well you gave 2 great answers to why some use a 257 cal, so don't just blow them off. And yes, 450 is doable with a 257 cal. Watched my Dad shoot his last mature bull at 441 and 442 yards with his 25-06 and a 3" group in the bull's chest. Bull went 5 feet. Familiarity with one's firearm is important.

I've shot numerous mature bulls and been with many others who killed mature bulls, so I just don't buy the 338WM-type cal as optimal elk cartridges. I'm sure we will just have to agree to disagree.

quote:

Originally posted by swampshooter:
IMHO elk are not really impressed by any bullet smaller than .338 caliber. Any bullet that punches a hole in their heart will kill them but it may take a while for them to go down. What they do during this time is up to them. .30 caliber and smaller bullets don't really get an elks attention. 243-257, no blood trail, good chance of a lost elk.

Elk have been very impressed by my 270 Win shooting 150g Partitions at 3000 fps. I have several I've shot on the run have both front feet broken because they died in mid flight and piled up on the ground when they landed.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

I have killed 9 elk, 5 of them 6 by or better, only one spike, and all with a .338 WM. I wouldn't dream of using a .257...why limit yourself? Because you can't afford another rifle? Because you think a .257 is better than a 300 or 338 Mag?

For the same reason I also use archery equipment or my grandpa's 30-30. Choose your weapon and use it responsibly. My 257 is a beautiful light rifle that hits where I aim.

I've killed two bulls and five cow elk with my 257 Bob. ALL died in seconds and ALL travelled less than 50 yards or less after the shot.

I've also killed a dozen buffalo, eight moose, several pronghorns, bears, bighorns and countless deer with the 257 Roberts. It kills just as well as the .300 Rem Mag i sometimes take out. I prefer 117gr Partitions and keep shots under 300 yards, 95% of my kills were at less than 100 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by walking buffalo:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

I have killed 9 elk, 5 of them 6 by or better, only one spike, and all with a .338 WM. I wouldn't dream of using a .257...why limit yourself? Because you can't afford another rifle? Because you think a .257 is better than a 300 or 338 Mag?

For the same reason I also use archery equipment or my grandpa's 30-30. Choose your weapon and use it responsibly. My 257 is a beautiful light rifle that hits where I aim.

I've killed two bulls and five cow elk with my 257 Bob. ALL died in seconds and ALL travelled less than 50 yards or less after the shot.

I've also killed a dozen buffalo, eight moose, several pronghorns, bears, bighorns and countless deer with the 257 Roberts. It kills just as well as the .300 Rem Mag i sometimes take out. I prefer 117gr Partitions and keep shots under 300 yards, 95% of my kills were at less than 100 yards.

Nicely staying "on" topic walking buffalo!

I have a .257 Roberts and so does my youngest son. Something about the .257 Rob that just kills. Between our 2 rifles a lot of animals have fallen, actually one of my favorite hunting rifles ever.

MC,
Well apparently you've shot many elk and guided lots of hunters and good for you.. I know Ive used a 30-06 and a 270 on elk as well as a 250 Savage and 25-35, like you I know the kill under perfect circumstances, and you must have many elk on hand..

I also know my .338 is a better elk rifle than whatever you shoot, not sure where your coming from on that. I have no problem what so ever with a going away Texas heart shot on a elk with a .250 gr. Nosler as its a quick killing shot and if you think about it it destroys more tissue than a broadside shot. I know I was making two to three good shots with my .30-06 and .270 on occasions expecially if the bulls got out around 300 yards..Where I hunt elk its hard hunting and opertunity is not often. I want every advantage I can get..Im 82 and I suspect Ive killed as many elk as you or anyone else.

You as a guide brag that you do not take going away or angled shots, and that statement bothers me because I also have guided elk and deer hunters and it was imparitive that I had to take some follow up shots to kill wounded animals, I would suggest you do likewise, the .338 does that better, that I promise..and im a sho nuff 30-06 fan, it is one of my favorite calibers under some circumstances.

Please allow me to use the gun of my choice and not be telling me what a great hunter you must be and how deadly you are with a lesser shooter, been there done that, and Ive heard that same old flawed story for years, mostly from younger inexperienced guides trying to impress the hunters...

Hahaha. Ray, Ray, Ray, I don't know how you came to all those conclusions about me, but you're wrong on most of them. hahaha

You boys keep telling us that the 338 "is a better elk rifle than whatever you shoot" or insinuate that people who hunt with a lesser caliber (257) "Because you can't afford another rifle?". Yet many of us choose to hunt with a rifle much smaller than a 338 and guess what, we are successful.

I never said you shouldn't use a 338WM, just that it doesn't take one to kill an elk. So you keep shooting them in the butt with your 338. I'll keep shooting them in the lungs and heart with my 257 Bob, 25-06 or 280. Heck I might even shoot one this year with a couple razor blades.

And nice post Walking Buffalo and Snellstrom.