The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Re: Which Rifle/Cartridge For Elk at 400yds+Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| one of us |
JoelM if you are looking for a real accurate rifle that shoots flat and you can buy ammo at any gas station out west I would get a 300 Win Mag in a Remington Sendero. It will cost less then the Weatherby and the Elk won't know the bullet is going 150 FPS slower then the Weatherby after it hits him.  Plus the Win has less recoil and cheaper ammo. I would take a look at the 200 grain Accubond for a bullet it has a High BC and holds together really well. If you are going to hold over the Elk you might want to look at a Mildot scope. You can also use a Mildot for ranging if your rangefinder dies for some reason. | ||
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Quote: That sounds pretty harsh. The first time I saw a Boone and Crockett style reticle in a Leuopold scope was in 1993. They were a specialty item then. When did the TDS prototype come out? I don't mean to rag on you . I am just curious. | |||
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Quote: By the time that you have practised enough to be competent at 500 yards you will have memorized the trajectory and also have a good feel for the wind drift. | |||
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how much extra range is the big 300's really gonna give you anyways, I bet only 40 yards at best. They will give you more energy at that range when shooting heavy bullets, but if you are looking for trajectory why not go with a 165 or maybe even a 150 grain bullet in your 06. My advise is play with some ballisitics programs before running out and buying a big 300. I think you will be surprised how little you get at the price of huge drawbacks. | |||
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If I was going on this hunt I would either buy a .300RUM Sendero or have a rifle built in .30-8mm, .300 Weatherby, or .300RUM with a fairly heavy contour. The reason I would stick with the .30's is the bullet selection and the difference in recoil. I personally wouldn't consider the larger .338's without a muzzlebreak. It makes longrange shoot much more pleasant. If the gun wont put 3 shots in less than 6" at 500yds (under ideal conditions)I would have it rebarreled. As far as bullets you need to look at those with a fairly high BC for the most retained energy. My first choice would be the 200 or 180 Accubonds and then maybe a Interbond. If you have to have the .338 I'd look hard at the 225 Accubonds with their .550BC. For a scope I'd buy a Leupold with target knobs or buy one without and send it off to Leupold to have a top knob put on it. The target knobs allow for a dead on hold at whatever distance you are shooting once you know how many "clicks" you need to come up for that distance. It takes a little longer then a mildot type scope but they are more versatile. I have a chart taped to the side of my stock for as far as I feel confident to shoot. | |||
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The scope I saw in 1993 had the regular duplex wires with extra wires for 300, 400, and 500 yards. The tip of the bottom post was 600 yards. This was in a 6.5X20 scope. The owner (my uncle)said he was going to have extra verticle wires added next time for wind drift. The leupold scope already has rangefinding features with the thick section of the reticle so all it needed was extra lines. ---------------------------- The TDS reticles are pretty cool though. I prefer to use a laser rangefinder. But a couple extra hor. lines wouldn't hurt either. | |||
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I would stay with a scope in the 3x10 range for big game hunting out to 500 yards.I would especially avoid the leupold vxiii 6.5x20x40, as the eye relief varies so much when changing the magnification,that it could cost you a shot opportunity if you should have to acquire the target and shoot quickly as often does happen while big game hunting.I am speaking from experience as I have one mounted on my 22-250 varmint rifle. It is however an excellent scope for varmints and target shooting where fast target acquisition is not required. | |||
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I'm very partial to the .338-.378. My gun club has a 600 yard range and it shoots well (from my snipe-pods) at that distance. The 250 grain bullet also has plenty of punch left at that distance....... | |||
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JoelM, I spent a few years hunting elk near Kremmling,Co under much the same conditions. Seems that area the shots are longer than most. We also hunted a large bowl and the shots were in the 4-500 yard area. I had H-S Precision build me a 30-378 with a 28" barrel, this was topped off with a 8.5-25X50 Leupold with Premier Reticile custom dots from 300 out to 1000 yards. This system is the way to go if using a good range finder. As other have said, it will take alot of range time and then spend the same amount of time in a clear cut or somewhat same conditions, using 8" paperplate set on stumps at various ranges. This will give you good field conditions to practice, if you can hit that plate under these conditions, you are ready to go. Just remember, field conditions are nothing like shooting off a bench at the range. good luck | |||
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As some have mentioned 400 to 500 yards is not a difficult shot with some serious practice under your belt. Unless you're looking to buy a new rifle I don't see a real need, the 30-06 should be fine and the broadside shot is generally the best shot no matter the rifle/chambering once the range gets a little long. Use of the hold-over method as you apparently tried on your Christmas Eve (4000ft ASL) test is not a good way for serious long range shooting. A calibrated reticle like the B&C, TDS, MilDot, Shephard or whatever is better but the more exact method is to adjust the scope via the elevation adjustment (turret). Most shooter spend all their time shooting via reference to the central crosshair and once things get a little excited folks sort of seem to slip back into that mode. My suggestion would be to keep the 30-06 and use the 180 partitions if they shoot well from the rifle (about 1 MOA or 1" at 100 yards is good enough for a long(er) range load IMHO). I don't know what scope you have but if you can reset the elevation cap to a "zero" mark once you've established a good reference zero you're about set there also. With the 30-06 and the 180's at ~2800 fps and the scope set to a "zero" mark once you've got your 3" high at 100 yards set (about a 260 yard zero at 4000ft ASL and ~40 degrees) you can easily do the following: Hold straight on out to 300 yards (the trajectory is only plus or minus ~4" from point of aim out to that distance once you're at 9000ft ALS and ~40 degrees). At 350 yards you adjust the scope elevation UP 2.0 MOA over your initial "zero" mark. At 400 yards you adjust the scope elevation UP 3.5 MOA (over your initial "zero" mark). At 450 yards you adjust your scope elevation UP 5.0 MOA (over your initial "zero" mark). At 500 yards you adjust your scope elevation UP 6.5 MOA (over your initial "zero" mark). For the yardage distances between these values you can extrapolate. It's really about that simple and will work fine as long as your scope is quality and the elevation and windage adjustments are tested and repeatable. You should spend a bit of time practicing this method at your home range to verify your scope and the trajectory data. You may find that you need a new scope if so invest there first and even if you do get a new rifle you'll be in need of a good scope. Invest in a good bipod or practice shooting over your pack or other solid object, prone is a good position to use. It's important to have a good stable position, something you've practiced from and are comfortable using. Trajectory data is subject to some changes and is specific to bullet speed, bullet BC, geographic elevation(s) and temperature (and a few other things but not of too much consideration at 500 yards). The charts I'll show here are for the 30-06 with a muzzle velocity of 2800fps and a Nosler 180 Partition (.475 BC). Here's sea level (what most folks think of as their trajectory and what's posted on the ammo box in many cases). Code:
Here's 4000ft ASL at 40 degrees Fahrenheit Code:
Here's 9000ft ASL and 40 degrees Fahrenheit Code:
Again... you'll need to practice and test your data chart for accuracy. You'll need a good stable shooting position such as prone and a bipod. You'd do better to adjust the scope for the distance rather than using a hold-over or stadia lines in the scope. (Stadia lines work ~well for shorter ranges but begin to fail beyond 600 yards if they're expected to work in multiple environments (elevations and temperature changes)). Practice at distances further than you expect to shoot as this is a good confidence builder and all practice (all good practice) is good. | |||
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JoelM, Folks must really be into the christmas spirit today! Most of the time a guy talking about his quad & a 400 yard shot would have the wolves turned loose on him!  mike | |||
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For all you "stalkers", how ya going to do it here? it's 440 to the far tree line. Tell us about your technique.  | |||
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Circle to the left, crawl the fenceline to the right, belly through the grass straight on, or simply plan to be in a better position next time, - like on the other side. Hardly a difficult environment. You need better planning. Brent | |||
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Quote: LOOKS LIKE a SHEPHERD scope to me.......  | |||
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Piece of cake. Crawl with the wind in my favor and use the cover available. Deer see lateral movment real well. I stalked a buck with my muzzleloader in a cut cornfield. I started at about 800 yards and closed the distance to 130 stooped at first walking right at him, then crawled the last couple hundred. No problemo. | |||
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Rather than a new rifle, put your money into a Leica 1200 LR and send your scope to Premier Reticle for 400, 500 and 600 yard dots. | |||
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dking, has given the best advise so far, use the 06 with a range finder, and have a scope that has turrets that can be adjusted. Remember with these longer shots you should have more time to make the shot, I have found when animals are more than 300 yds away, they are not nearly as aware of you being there | |||
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| <JOHAN> |
JoelM Ed Brown has plenty of suitable rifles ready. http://www.edbrown.com/cgi-bin/start.cgi/inventory.htm I think trying to stalking closer is a thrill. Shooting at 400-500 yards is something I like to avoid. Cheers / JOHAN | ||
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In my humble opinion a 30-06 is a little light for the 400+ yard shot on an elk. I have shot several at 300 yards and consider that the absolute max range for an '06. Your choice of rifle will depend greatly on your sensitivity to recoil. A heavier rifle will be a definate advantage. It will be steadier and much more pleasant to shoot. If you are mainly going to be sitting in one place get a 9-10 pound rifle with a 26" barrel for more velocity. Any of the big .308 magnums with a 180-200 grain bullet would be my first choice. I would definately use a bullet with a high BC. This will give you much more energy, less wind drift, and slighty better trajectory. A bonded bullet that opens quickly (like an accubond) would be a great choice. Use your own judgement about what is an ethical shot. Be honest with yourself about your capabilities and make your own decision. Nobody else can tell you how well you can shoot in a given situation. If you are willing to put in the time at the range to develope the skills you need, it is possible to shoot to 500 yards. | |||
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To the left is even more open. Crossing the fenceline to the right or entering the far treeline is Trespassing (go directly to jail, do not collect $200). Did I forget to mention that the game dosn't normaly enter this field until 10 minutes before the close of shooting hours (fine, loss of hunting privleges and loss of firearm), and will enter anywhere along the treeline or down the fenceline? Setup on the far side and you could still be facing a long shot, just in the other direction. Lawcop That's what it is all right | |||
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| <allen day> |
Brent, I agree with you, at least from ther limited amount of information that photo provides. AD | ||
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I would also like to add the possibility of a Christensen Arms rifle in .300 RUM. You could get one of those without a long wait and also get it with a muzzle brake. . If you want to save some bucks, buy a Savage in .300 RUM with the adjustable muzzle brake. It shoots .5 MOA out of the box, no custom rifle needed here !!! You could also look at Burris scopes with the Ballistic Plex reticle or Ballistic Mil Dot reticles. I have one on my .270 WSM Savage and it seems to work well. | |||
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Quote: Not for serious target work or for shooting small varmints, but we are talking shooting big game at less than 500 yards.Using my 300ultramag with a 300 yard zero,I am 8" low at 400 yards and 22" low at 500 yards.In other words the crosshairs are on the elk virtually all the way to 500 yards so the holdover method provides more than enough accuracy for shooting big game.I have taken big game to 480 yards ith a 3x10 scope using the holdover method and it certainly was not difficult.Using the holdover method is also much quicker and simpler than adjusting a scope for each shot.However for a cartridge that does not have such a flat trajectory,I prefer not to use the holdover method as I prefer to have my crosshairs on or near the animal. | |||
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JoelM--Your friends assessment that a 30-06 will kill an elk if it's standing broadside has the connotation that the .300 Weatherby will drop em from any angle. I suspect this myth has helped sell a lot of magnums. I'll take one well hit with a 30-06 over a poorly hit one with any magnum. If your 30-06 is not ample,move to a larger cal not a faster .30,then again if the 30-06 wont do it you might consider something mounted on tracks. | |||
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I personally don't like using target knobs and come-ups for hunting. I've shot 3 disciplines of Silhouette and High Power so use them all the time in competition but think that they aren't a good idea for 1 main reason - I get really exited when hunting! If I didn't get exited hunting I probably wouldn't want to do it. It's too easy to start fumbling around when there a big game animal in your sites, it's hard to accurately count clicks with frozen fingers and a 6x6 Elk in your crosshairs. KISS principle applies in the hunting fields. Target knobs are also more fragile and the caps are easily lost afield. I've found that it's also all to easy to forget exactly where you've changed your sites to. Imagine that you've just dialed up to 500 yds to look at a Bull Elk when a trophy passes withing 100 yds of you, you are either going to shoot over it or spook the thing while you are fumbling around with your site settings. The markings on the turrets of several of the different scopes around aren't as clear as to what elevation that you are at, I've seen people get them mixed up in matches where they had plenty of time to double check - much less in the bad light and confusion while hunting. Buck Fever is also another reason it's a good idea to have ballistic info taped to the side of your stock, during the thrill of the hunt its all too easy to forget or mix up trajectories having them right there is a good safety net. I also think that the 30-06 is too light for really long range hunting. I've seen too many 30 cal bullets at 30-06 velocities not knock over 500 meter rams in silhouette to trust them to knock over a 850lb Elk. I realize that steel Rams and Elk are two completely different things but both can use as much energy that you can when the bullet hits. The 300's are a usefull step up IMHO if you are shooting over 300yds..........DJ | |||
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300 rem ultra mag.But i wouldn't recomend hunting those distances without lots of practice | |||
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StubbleJumper I'll agree that for fella's that are familiar with their rifle and trajectories, "flatter" trajectories and relatively short ranges (500+- and in) the hold-overs work okay. But for a fella that's just starting I believe teaching the adjust and fire method works well. Initally it's confusing but like riding a bike it comes natural after while and once the fella knows what's really happening downrange the hold-over method or the stadia line reticle can be switched to without too much of a problem. As you probably know some folks really have no idea how much 22" or 33" of holdover is...they sometimes can't even state (or know) the depth of a deer or elk chest. djpaintles I've seen folks get confused too but it's usually do to being a newbie or being flustered. If a fella is prone to forgetting what he's doing when shooting at game animals he really has no business shooting long range just yet. I feel that to be done correctly a fella needs to be able to think about the shot and what's needed to make the shot... distance, wind, critter movement, personal condition. A big set of Leupold MK4 type turrets (no caps), set to zero and used like they're meant to be used, in MOA increments, is about as simple as it gets. If the turret is on -0- the hunter is in regular hunting mode (zeroed at 260 yards in the offered example). When the hunter decide to laser the critter he'll need to do something with the number returned, 500 yards for example. He'll either use it to hold over by some inches (33") or look at a little chart and turn the scope turret to half way between -6- and -7- and shoot. Once he's fired the shot(s) he turns the scope turret to -0- once again. It doesn't take too long at some practice before the turret check comes natural...sort of like checking the speedometer when driving. A 30-06 at 9000ft ASL with a .474 BC bullet is pretty near the same as a 300 Win mag at 1000ft ASL, probably within 100 or 200 ft/lbs at 500 yards. The 9000ft elevation is a real help to this fella... Even by changing to a Accubond bullet and a higher BC (.507) he'd only shave off about an inch or 2" of crop at 500 yards with a 260 yard zero. | |||
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The beauty of the Leupold knobs is they can be zeroed. When I'm in a situation where I'm thinking about shooting then I remove the cover and stick it in my pocket. If a animal walked out close all it takes is a quick glance to see if the scope is zeroed. You can also paint the marks for every 100yds (or 50yds for that matter) for quick recognition. A different color for each increment and even a color chart with your drop chart if you want to get fancy. Additionally a .300RUM if sighted in for 300yds is going to be right around 3" high at 100yds. If you had to come up 20 clicks to be on at 500yds (which is too much but this is an example) that would translate to roughly 5" at 100yds so that would be a total of 8" high at 100yds. If you aimed dead center you'd still hit the animal at 100yds without a scope ajustment. If you aimed low for the heart you'd punch him through the lungs. The problem with mildot or scopes with wires is they are never exactly on for every hundred yards unless you have someone like premier set it up that way. Then you are stuck with that particular load for that scope. Say for example the scope has a dot that is right on at 450yds instead of 400. The next one is 550yds and your animal is 480yds. So you give it a close approximation and let it rip with a rifle that will shoot a 10 or 12" group at 500yds. You approximation was off 4 or 5" and now your potential to hit 10 or 12" just became 14 to 17" potentially resulting in a gut shot animal. That's way too much room for error in my book and that's why I wouldn't shoot that far unless I knew I could shoot under 5-6" groups. When the distances are long typically the shots aren't nearly as rushed. The animals aren't nearly as spooky either. At least for me the adrenaline level is much lower as well. My adrenaline level increases after making the shot much more than before. I shot a mulie buck at 809yds with one shot this year and hit within 3" of where I aimed. If it hadn't been getting dark I probably would have passed on the shot and tried to get closer although he was on a high open rim overlooking a bowl so that could have been a challenge too. I had fired hundreds of rounds through the summer out to a little over 800yds and was very confident I could make the shot. Plus I practice on rockchucks in the spring out to 8-900yds. It's not rocket science but dont scrimp on your equipment if your going to shoot game at long range and practice, practice, practice. Their is no such thing as a rifle that is too accurate. | |||
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Quote: By the time the person is practised enough to attempt shots at big game in excess of 400 yards he certainly should have a very good idea of just how much his holdover is.It is a simple matter to compare his holdover to the depth of the animal which he should also know if he is serious enough about hunting to set up and practise regularly for long distance shooting. You are right that many people have no clue as to the depth of a deer or elk but then those people should not be considering taking shots at game approaching 500 yards either. | |||
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Wow! I've researched some over at LongRangeHunting.com and have some choices: Weatherby Accumark 300Wtby Sako 75 Syn 300Win Rem 700 LSS (SS) 300Win or 338RUM Rem Sendro 300Win r 338RUM The scope will be the Leupold 3.5-10 with the Boone & Crockett reticle. We have two rangefinders, a Bushnell and Leica. I'm wondering more and more about the 338RUM, one could shoot 210gr Partitions pretty flat. We discussed this hunt over lunch and we may not even hunt this high bowl if cloud cover or high winds develop. My friend has bowed out several times if the conditions are not right. He's pretty sharp, two of the bulls he took were killed with one shot with the 180gr Partition, he has the slugs which were a perfect mushroom. His scope is a Leupold 3-9 with the std reticle, he just holds a foot over and to the side depending on the wind. He told me by the time we leave for Colorado, I'll be well ready. Thanks, JoelM | |||
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It is one thing to shoot "Paper" off of a bench at 400 yards and a total other thing to shoot Elk or Deer at 400 yards with up and down hill grades and know bench.I passed on three bulls a couple of years ago with my .300 Win Mag.Just looked to far and a pretty down hill grade and 9X on my scope.Went back the next summer with a Rangefider and a freezer box.393lazered yards and about a 45% angle down hill.I could have made the shot but thats out there for most.If thats your only shot and its flat I'll take my .300 Win Mag and take it with a steady rest if there is one around.Theres not enough difference in the .300's to make much if any difference on game at any distance.Elk don't recognise Energy-Caliber-Velocity or make or model but they do bullet placement or a bunch of Bowhunters would go hungry.Seen a few drop to the "Little" .270 at 400+ or - yards with 130 Noslers. Field condition shots(In practice) and not much adrenalin flowing do to walking-excitement etc prevails in long shots.My opinion is any .300 would work just fine if you do your homework and practice in similar conditions. Closer is better. Jayco | |||
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Quote: According to the remington website,the sendero is listed in 300win mag and 300ultramag but not in 338ultramag http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/700sendsf.htm By the way,I have taken 8 elk and 2 moose with the 300ultramag and it has plenty of power at the distances that you are talking. | |||
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Quote: Actually it's not even close to the simplest. The simplest is probably the Shepard system. -Put the animal in the circle that fits and shoot. I don't really care for the scopes that much and so I use the next easiest - The TDS. With the TDS I laser for range (although you can use the reticle) 400 yds is third bar down, line up and shoot. After lasering I never have to look out of the scope. The Smartest hunters do as much of the thinking ahead of time as they can. Come ups can certainly be used by skilled shooters effectively - no Doubt, but it's not as simple as other systems by any stretch. To longer ranges than 600 they may be the way to go, but I think the MOA vertical adjustments are too coarse. Do you really want 8" clicks at 800 yds? And it's not just inexperienced shooters that get flustered. I have seen Master class, National Championship level shooters come to the line with the wrong settings on. JoelM, I may be the only one here but I'd choose the Sako M-75 over the others. It is the only one of the bunch guaranteed to shoot a 5 shot 1 MOA group at 100 yds. The others may do so but it's not guaranteed. I've hunted with Sendero's and they are a bit heavy if you are going to walk much at all. The Weatherby's aren't near as smooth as the Sako's. I guess since I've made 2 over 500yd Elk kills in the last 2 years with 2 different Sako 75's has somewhat endeared them to me...........DJ | |||
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Quote: The sendero is slightly heavier than the sako75.As far as rifles are concerned,I also prefer the sako,but I do prefer the 300ultramag over the 300winmag for long range shooting.If you could find a sako 75 in 300ultramag left over in someones stock you would have the best of both worlds. http://www.floridagunworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FG&Product_Code=794&Category_Code=R+BAR+BT | |||
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Quote: Sounds to me like you are making more excuses for being lazy. That fence line has two sides. Use them. Even the near side provides cover. Quote: Sounds like you don't have a very goo d handle on the animals. Flip a coin and choose one side or the other, or esle, do your homework. Brent | |||
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I really don't understand this argument.I have 3 friends that took Bull Elk with Bows and a group I usually hunt with took 4 out of 4 with Muzzleloaders all this year.And I was lucky enough to take one with a 45-70 Guide Gun and a slow old 300 Barnes XFN this year just to prove a point to a friend. As I said earlier....Elk don't read numbers-Magazines or anything else but....Shot placement from "Any" Object.How in the hell did the old timers do it without the Thunder Boomers of today? Good luck...........Jayco. | |||
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The calibrated reticle systems are a "close enough" system and for precision shooting are limited to shorter distances and limited environmentals, for big game they work adequately given their limititaions. I guess I left a little opening there in the MOA increments statement... I probably should have stated "marked in MOA at the major divisions" as in "6 . . . 7 . . . 8", I use 1/4 MOA "click" scopes as a rule for hunting, I do have a few 1 MOA "click" M3 type scopes but they're for matches and giant game (I have one on my longrange 375 H&H). I've seen a few NRA high-power type shooters make some elementary mistakes too. Some of them really know nothing other than NRA match shooting and I'll bet there are more than a few that don't know what the 100 yard zero is on their rifle (no real need either I guess)...they know 200 is nn, come up nn to get to 300 and then nn to get to 600 and another nn to get to 1000. The rifle(s) I shoot at various matches and training are the same rifles I hunt with, it helps a lot. | |||
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If you are going to do this you have a LOT to do before you go. I would not even attempt this with a rifle/load combination that is not capable of consistent .5 MOA accuracy with a low extreme spread with the load you are going to hunt with. I know of no factory loaded ammo that will do that. And you need to shoot a LOT at the ranges and position you are going to be hunting at with the rifle and load you are going to use. I don't mean 200 to 300 rounds I mean 700+ in varying wind conditions. Wind can eat you up. I know from shooting long range matches. Missing a wind condition change WILL mean a miss if you are lucky or a wounded elk if you are not lucky. You have to know the real world trajectory of your load. Not what some ballistic program tells you. Know when the shot is there and when it isn't. Personally I would use a 30mm tube Leupold 4.5 X 14 X 40 Tactical scope with Mark IV turrets on it. I would keep a 100 yard zero on the scope and click up from there. If you have shot enough at the ranges you are going to be hunting at, you will know exactly what your come up is for the yardage you have ranged the elk at. Shot placement is everything. I am not going into the caliber you should use. That is a personal preference. My suggestion is to use a caliber that you can shoot a LOT. If I was you friend on the mountain with you, I would rather be there with a guy that had put 1000+ rounds through his 308 Win. in the time leading up to the hunt than with some one that had put 200 through his 300 super magnum. I am not trying to discourage you from doing this, all I am saying is be totally prepared to do it. In my mind there is not any difference in getting prepared to be competitive in long range matches and shooting game at 400 to 500 yards. The same principals apply. You owe it to the animal to be prepared. RiverRat | |||
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If I were guiding you, I would feel comfortable at the distances described if you showed up at the ranch with a 300 mag or more, topped with most any of the scopes described. If you had good glass in your gearbag, binos, spotting scope, laser rangfinder, and were conversant with ballistics and told me you had been practicing, we would lay on that ridge and feel pretty good about a 400 - 500 yard shot. If you showed up with a 30.06 or 7mm mag etc. we would hunt another part of the ranch. On the ranch where I guide, more elk are wounded by the 7mm than any other caliber because of "magnum" power overestimates. You're on the right track starting this early. Best of luck this fall. | |||
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Seeing as how you are giving me a dead rest, I would adjust my objective to 400 yards, chamber a round, place my 400 yard wire at the top of the deer's back, take a deep breath and squeeze nice and easy. Then I would walk directly to the deer in a straight line, take picutres, cape and quarter him, take a long drink of water, have a candy bar. Then after packing him out, I would come home and post my pics on this web site and see what people had to say. That would be my approach. Merry Christmas. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Re: Which Rifle/Cartridge For Elk at 400yds+
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