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I'm looking a big new mexico elk. Someone said int this place I can find an execellent elk hunting with a very good trophy quality and a good accomodation. http://www.nrawc.org/elk.asp Even the price seems good for a new mexico elk hunt. Someone have hunted in this place? mario | ||
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Yes, the "NRA" Whittington Center has some outstanding elk hunting, perhaps as good as it gets outside of a fence. In fact, the State of New Mexico has essetially turned the seasons and management over to Whittington and they set their own seasons and bag limits year around as they please. If one of the "good old boys" who is on the inside with NRA management wants a bull in July, well, by god, he'll have a bull in July. I don't know how you class $8,000 as a "reasonable" price, but then all things are relative, as they say (I just apparently don't have relatives as flush as yours  )The Whittington Center is run as an insider's private club within the NRA, and your NRA membership buys you no rights in regard to it. Clever how a handful of folks at the head of a "non-profit" association have engineered an incredible perk for themselves. | |||
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Obviously you must have some sort of proof to make the above statement and the rest of the gobbly gook comments. Care to reveal it? -TONY Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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Copied from the hunting page of the Whittington Center: "1. Officers, directors, employees of the NRA or the Whittington Center may NOT apply." Doesn't sound like a private insider's club to me.. My annual cow elk hunt takes place just down the road from the Whittington Center. I go there to sight in my rifle. It's about as far from a private club as you can get! No longer Bigasanelk | |||
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You stole my thunder. I had that saved and ready to use.  -TONYTony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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I have done the random draw for elk tags there over 20 times and I am yet to draw for the privelage to hunt. I am a life member and support the NRA at every banquet in our area. But the whittington center hunts for members is a joke. It is set up to appease the big boys! | |||
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Sorry, I dont want become a discussion about the rights in regard to it. Reading the web site, seems the GUIDED hunts they dont need of any application. Off course this hunt is not absolutely cheap, but the cost is reasonable in comparision with the nearby Vermejo ranch or other luxury places in the area mario | |||
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"May not apply" does not necessarily mean "may not hunt". Why would one apply when one can go when they want? Just a statement, I wouldn't take either side of this discussion. | |||
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Mario, You are on the right track to be looking at Whittington Center for an elk hunt. You might also consider the Deseret Ranch in Utah. Both offer you quality hunts with great guides and no fences. Some will claim $8k is high for an elk hunt, but compared to Vermejo, the White Apache, etc, they are reasonably priced. You might recognize from the level of jealosy that many would love to hunt on Whittington Center. I apply there each year as well (as a member), and of course I have not drawn. I do know one of their former guides, and the ranch has great potential, although 350 B+C is about the top end in terms of reasonable expectations. That is a great bull in anyone's book. If you plan to visit the US for an elk hunt, you won't be disappointed at Whittington Center. Bill | |||
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I have drawn tags to hunt elk and turkey on Whittington. Good hunts, quality accomodations and no complaints. | |||
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Thanks for the infos, I will contact Whittington and after I will give the news. mario | |||
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To get the skinny on the WC hunts, I contacted the manager there, who just happens to be an acquaintence of mine. My message to him is immediately below, and his reply is posted in BLUE below it. **** Mike, How the hell are you? Some guy posted the following on one of the hunting message boards. Before I make an idiot out of myself defending WC, is any of it true? -TONY Yes, the "NRA" Whittington Center has some outstanding elk hunting, perhaps as good as it gets outside of a fence. In fact, the State of New Mexico has essetially turned the seasons and management over to Whittington and they set their own seasons and bag limits year around as they please. If one of the "good old boys" who is on the inside with NRA management wants a bull in July, well, by god, he'll have a bull in July. I don't know how you class $8,000 as a "reasonable" price, but then all things are relative, as they say (I just apparently don't have relatives as flush as yours ) The Whittington Center is run as an insider's private club within the NRA, and your NRA membership buys you no rights in regard to it. Clever how a handful of folks at the head of a "non-profit" association have engineered an incredible perk for themselves. **** Tony, I wouldn’t worry about making an idiot of yourself. Whoever posted this statement is the one making an idiot of himself. First, it is impossible for any of our “good old boys†to take a bull elk in July as the New Mexico Game and Fish Department not only sets the hunt dates but also the bag limits and allocates licenses for each parcel of privately held land. No employees, NRA board members or Whittington Center board members have ever been allowed to hunt on NRAWC property and never will for that matter. Second, a “reasonable†price is in the eye of the beholder. It is apparent that this guy can’t afford a guided hunt anywhere and is simply putting his jealousy on his sleeve and it really doesn’t warrant a response. Third, whomever wrote this has obviously never been to the Whittington Center and is simply regurgitating lies and rumors he has heard. We are open to the public year ‘round; you don’t have to be an NRA member to come here. He’s right when he says “your NRA membership buys you no rights in regard to itâ€. We are not supported financially by the NRA and therefore your NRA membership, while commendable, does not afford you discounts, perks, or rights to any hunt we offer. However, your NRA Whittington Center Life Gun Club Membership does buy you free informal range time, reduced Trap and Skeet Fees and a discount in our Gift Shop. The profound ignorance of people can sometimes be mind boggling. Instead of taking the time to investigate and figure out if a rumor or a seemingly absurd statement is true they simply turn around and spit it right back out changing the content slightly, in turn, making the statement even more absurd. I have little patience for these kind of people, this guy is no exception. If you can let me know his name I’ll put him on our “No Hunting Listâ€. Thanks for the heads up. Regards, Mike Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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OW may I have the e.mail contact of the manager? mario | |||
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http://www.brilliantcanyonranch.com/ I hunted mulies with this guy a few years ago. It's adjacent to Ted Turners massive Vermajo Park. Joe's a SUPER guy and theres awesome elk running around that area. (Pretty fair cook too.) Thought I'd pass it on......... cheaptrick.....out!! | |||
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Mario, I sent you a PM with Mike's email addy in it. He's a class act and straight shooter. I haven't hunted WC but have stayed there on other business. Neat place and very nice accommodations. -TONY Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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Stonecreek: Cat got your tongue? There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Outdoor Writer Thanks for posting that copy of your correspondance and clearing up a little of the "BS" that gets slung around here! Cheap shot, petty and jealeousy are the things that came to mind when I read some of those slanderous comments about the Whittington. Thanks again Outdoor Writer. | |||
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Thanks from me too Tony. I'm glad you took the time to eradicate yet another 'anti NRA' lie. If every hunter and shooter would join the NRA we wouldn't be putting up with the current anti gun /anti hunting BS. | |||
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Interesting reading comments from 'know nothing know it alls'we've been to the WC twice for the national final competition for YHEC it's a great place to visit with great helpful staff.A hunter from S. Cal was in drawn for an elk hunt at WC but it proved too cold for him so he returned home.They also have self guided hunts that are reasonable.When WC first opened getting drawn for a hunt was much easier according to friends who had their sons in training at the WC summer camps,must've worked cause one son was high overall in YHEC and both ended up on college shooting teams. | |||
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All for making a statement that I take neither side of. I make monetary contributions to the NRA, probably more than you Tony, and its affiliated organizations several times a year. The above statement makes me think maybe I shouldn't be. Who does MB think he is, putting peoples names on a "no hunting list"? Sounds like an insider perk to me, and a portion of my contributions pay his salary. What is the world coming to when people are put on "no hunting lists"? If I knew that were the case, I would put some organizations on a "no donation list". | |||
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And my daddy can beat up your daddy.
Perhaps rather than go off on Mike or me, you should read what he wrote more carefully. Then let me know what part of, "We are not supported financially by the NRA and therefore your NRA membership, while commendable, does not afford you discounts, perks, or rights to any hunt we offer," is confusing you into thinking your donations pay anyone's salary at the WC. -TONY Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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Quite true, but I bet less than 25% of the gun owners on this site belong or support! | |||
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Excellent Tony, my bad, I rarely read fine print, I know I am paying someones salary though and I hope they are doing their job. | |||
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"We are not supported financially by the NRA" The "Whittington Center" is legally known as the "NRA Special Contribution Fund" to the IRS. Their IRS Form 990 for 2004, or "tax return" for non-profits shows the following: "Compensation provided by a related organization" paid by National Rifle Association of America, EIN 53-0116130 to Wilson H. Phillips, Jr 11250 Waples Mill Rd Fairfax Va 22030 Salary: $391,060 Benefits and Deferred Compensation, $98,219 Expense Account $4,037 Total: $493,316 In other words, your NRA dues paid almost a half million in salary for Mr. Phillips to serve as "treasurer" for Whittington. Another $119,094 was paid in salary and benefits to Mr. Mike Ballew, P. O. Box 700, Raton NM from income of the NRA Special Contribution Fund. I make no representation that there is anything inappropriate in these salaries; I simply want to point out that it is inaccurate to say that the NRA provides no support for Whittington. As they say, nice work, if you can get it. | |||
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Phillips is the treasurer of the NRA and several other of its affiliates including the non-profit 501 organization, "NRA Special Contribution Fund," commonly known as the Whittington Center. It's a matter of compactness. It's little different than being one of Time-Warner's various entities, i.e. basically a separate business under one corporate umbrella. In the case of the WC, however, the profits/expenses are kept separate from the overall revenue of the NRA. No NRA membership dues or contribution to ANY OTHER part of the NRA are used to support the WC or to pay Mike's salary. It is wholly funded by DIRECT contributions made to the WC, dba "NRA Special Contribution Fund," or from it's various income sources, including the hunts that began this thread. IOW, for any money you donate/contribute to the NRA, you would have to SPECIFY that it go to the WC. This is no different than if you donate to the other arms of the NRA, such as the NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund, NRA Foundation, NRA Political Victory Fund or the NRA itself, which are funded through SEPARATE monies ear-marked for them only. Member dues and contributions to the main NRA go into the NRA general fund. -TONY Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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The information on Phillips half-million dollar compensation comes directly from the Whittington tax return where it is listed as Whittington expenses paid by another organization (in this case the NRA). I regret that my criticism of the way the Whittington Center is operated has landed me on the "NO HUNT" list of the Executive Director. I was not aware that a person excercising his right to express his opinion, even if in error, would effectively exclude him from what little opportunity to hunt the Whittington there might be. Speaking of list and who's on them, would you care to chronicle YOUR experiences as a hunter on the Whittington, Outdoor Writer? | |||
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Never hunted there but used to go the ranges at the Whit about once a month when I lived in New Mexico. Great facility. | |||
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Stonecreek, From a message not too far above this one. -TONY
Your "opinion" was stated as fact, especially the part about the NM G&FD and the WC as being a "insider's club." And...Of course, MY experience or amount of contributions to the NRA is meaningless to your original statements abouth WC being a good ol' boys club for the NRA higher ups. Why should it be a surprise the NRA paid Phillips' salary? That's who he works for. His salary is no doubt listed on the tax form of EVERY separate NRA entity because he's the ONLY officer in the NRA listed as the treasurer. That's why he gets the big bucks. NOW, instead of denigrating WC, maybe all you NRA guys should be asking why the hell your hard earned money is paying some guy a 1/2 mil a year just to balance the check book. Just imagine what the other salaries are.  -TONYTony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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I think the oakie needs to shut up | |||
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Just a few lines about my experience trying to get information about Whittington Center hunting.... I will probably be banned, too, but I can't afford it anyway, so ..... A few years ago, I read an article by Craig Boddington, in a national magazine, regarding a FEBRUARY bull elk hunt on the Whittington Center. Boddington mentioned a partner on this hunt, another big-time writer with the last name of Eastman. I am not sure, but I think he went by the name "Chub". I figured it must have been a misprint, though FEBRUARY was mentioned more than once in the story. At the time, I was a Game & Fish law enforcement officer, in a state in which deer season runs from October into January. The FEBRUARY hunt sounded like just the ticket, so I emailed the director of the Whittington Center (I am not sure, but I believe that was Mr. Ballew at that time) to inquire. The reply I got was adamant that no elk hunting was done, or had EVER been done there in February. Just a couple of months later, I read in a DIFFERENT magazine, ANOTHER article, this one by Eastman, about his FEBRUARY bull elk hunt on Whittington, with Boddington !!!! Another email to Whittington, another denial, this one rather nasty. Rather like the unprofessional tone in the email from Mr. Ballew, quoted by Outdoor Writer above. "Whoever posted this statement is......an idiot...." "It is apparent that this guy can’t afford a guided hunt anywhere and is simply putting his jealousy on his sleeve......" "....whomever wrote this.....lies and rumors..." "We are not supported financially by the NRA...." "The profound ignorance of people can sometimes be mind boggling......." "Instead of taking the time to investigate and figure out if a rumor or a seemingly absurd statement is true....." (Like I did, by contacting the WC directly.) "I have little patience...." "If you can let me know his name I’ll put him on our “No Hunting Listâ€." Draw your own conclusions. NO COMPROMISE !!! "YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!" | |||
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Wingnut, I could find only one article online by either Craig or Chub that mentions elk hunting and the WC. One is about a veterans Devil Dog hunt on the Vermejo where the participants stayed at WC. The other is about 9.3 cal. rifles for elk, linked at end of this. It doesn't have any mention of FEBRUARY in it, so the articles you mention must be some other(s). If you have the titles or magazine/issues, it would help. I've also got calls in to Craig and Ballew, but Craig is gone until at least Nov. 6. One way or another, I'll see what's going on. -TONY A Most Marvelous Metric Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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Sounds to me like a different article about the same hunt. I do remember that the original story was about Boddington using a more "normal" caliber, rather than one of the magnums with which he is more usually associated. I'll try to find his and Eastman's articles. I'll post links here if I do. NO COMPROMISE !!! "YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!" | |||
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FOUND IT !!! FEBRUARY ELK !!!! NO COMPROMISE !!! "YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!" | |||
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NO COMPROMISE !!! "YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!" | |||
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Great. I wonder why the Cabela's article didn't show up with my Google searches. I did about 10 different combinations.  That provides some written proof. I'll let you know what I find out from Ballew and later when Craig gets back. -TONY Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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O.W.: While you're talking to Mr. Ballew, ask him what the 320 acres in Fisher County, Texas listed as an asset (investment, acutally) of the Whittington Center is all about. That part of the state has some pretty nice quail country and I'd like to know if I'm on the No Hunt list for that one, too. By the way, the Fisher County Central Appraisal office has no record of any property owned in the name of either NRA Special Contribution Fund or Whittington Center. Wonder why this one is flying under the radar (along with 1400 acres at Maxwell, New Mexico that is NOT listed as a part of the Center's property)? | |||
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Judging by his comments, the manager of the Whittington Center is the quintessential, self-serving a-hole of all a-holes, and anyone who would defend the vomit he spews isn't a bit better. And deciding who to put on a no-hunt list??? Who the hell does he think he is? I plan to circulate his comments to every paid-up member of the NRA that I can contact and to publish it in every venue possible. And trust me, my contacts and opportunities are rather unlimited. So Tony, you can tell the jerk friend of yours to put my name on the "no hunting" list as well. And lastly, Tony, after seeing his comments, how could you possibly write the following about him: "He's a class act and straight shooter" Blinding ignorance must be the only answer... Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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One more thing, Tony: In case your "friend" asks you to remove his letter, don't worry: the entire thread has been copied and preserved in its original state. After all, I am certain he'll deny it all and maybe even blame you for printing it. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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Yes my man, who in the hell does he think he is? Maybe he is like the woman who was recently promoted, despite a lack of experience or demonstrated ability (work wise), just wants to tell and let everyone know she is the boss. Name dropping is just that, name dropping. Big deal, who cares. | |||
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This is just plain nasty. Ideally, we should be discussing issues, not individuals. Let's try to show something like class here. analog_peninsula ----------------------- It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence. | |||
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