quote:

Originally posted by Madgoat:
Pay for the ranchers mistakes because he didn't vaccinate?

Let's say he did vaccinate. It's only about 65% effective. Then there's a brucellosis scare in his area. He can no longer prove his cattle are free of the disease because the vaccination causes false positives in the test. His herd gets distroyed anyway. Yup, that vaccination sure did a lot of good....

It's amazing how simple solutions are when you don't have all the facts.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon A:
It's amazing how simple solutions are when you don't have all the facts.

Quite apparently, no one here has any facts at all. Just more useless internet rumor mongering as usual.

Here is a fact for you all. In 2004, 3/4 of ALL farm and ranch income came from federal subsidies and farm bill payments in Idaho.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Here is a fact for you all. In 2004, 3/4 of ALL farm and ranch income came from federal subsidies and farm bill payments in Idaho.

465H&H

Oh buddy, I've got family members that farm over 1000 acres in the Boise valley and there "subsidies" totaled $8000.00 in 2004 with a farm gross of $400,000.00 ..........I call on your post! Most of the farm subsidies land in the corn belt back in the midwest NOT in the Northwest.

Cattle can be tested against the false positive, I'm calling on that Jon. Also gophershooter, a cow will only abort one time, from then on she can have calves as normal after building up an immunity to the disease. You both need to do a little more homework.
The AG's idea of controling this disease 10 years ago, was to depredate 55000 elk out of the GYE, then try to repopulate with disease free animals. That is a great idea...and you all think the wolves will decimate the elk herds...it is called APHIS, and believe me, they are better at it.
The way I see it, the cattle gave this disease to the elk and bison. Was the AG community ready to pay the state of MT, ID and WY for the lost license, hotel, gas, food, etc, revenue associated with elk hunting? You bet your ass not, why pay for them to run cattle belly deep in snow all winter, then be suprised when elk show up on their feedlines? I'm not saying that the ranchers couldn't use a little help, but they need to be held accountable as well. For there are a few that still don't vaccinate, and allow their cattle to comingle with elk in winter time.
The reason why all these feedgrounds are around Jackson in the first place was because natural migration routes the elk used to follow outta that wintery place were cut when first immigrants in the valley put up hay for livestock and short stopped the elk on their hay stacks. Then what do you do when 1500 head of elk are standing around your cows? You try and feed them someplace else, because if you don't and have dying elk all over the place (I believe the winter of 1907-08 was this way) that's not politically correct either. Hence, 1912 and the National Elk Refuge is created.

I would just like the AG community to realize, that when you point a finger, three fingers are pointing back at you. This is not just a wildlife problem, but a livestock, and animal husbandry problem as well.

MG

If I may be so bold as to ask, in what form are these "subsidies" paid to cattle ranchers?
Does the state or the US government pay out a particular amount of money per head of cattle to the ranchers?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

Originally posted by Madgoat:
Cattle can be tested against the false positive, I'm calling on that Jon.....You both need to do a little more homework.

Actually, had you done your homework you'd know the latest vaccine doesn't have the false positive problem. You failed the test.

For a problem that's been around as you said since the 1930's or so, that's a relatively new developement. But it's still no more effective than the old one. A better tool to help, but at ~65% (under "average conditions") it's a long way from "solving the problem."