The national park service has rounded up 200 Bison in SW Montana and is preparing to slaughter them as quickly as possible!

This is an out of control government agency that we are supporting.

They are spending who knows how much of our hard earned tax dollars in this endeavour!

I would PAY the national park service $500.00 to let me harvest one of these animals!
I would PAY THEM!!!
Instead in their green and anti-traditional American value (anti-Hunting!) madness they are hell bent on killing these creatures and reaping NO benefit from their deaths!

Typical green intellectual idiocy, this!

I will be writing my Congressional Representative and Senators to let them know how I feel about this.

Lets see 200 Buffalo culled by willing Hunters (willing to pay $500.00 apiece!) would come to $100,000.00!
Hmmm....
Plus the savings involved in the national park service not having to bring their helicopters, trucks, equipment, pay for pen rentals, personnel, pay for processing and disposal of the Bison etc etc etc!
Well in short if the national park service had an ounce of intelligence in the whole outfit and/or did not have this anti-traditional Amercian values philosophy I am sure they could save about $300,000.00! On this lunatic gambit alone!!!
Dumb shits!

Here is the link to todays newsflash:

http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2006/01/12/news/02bisonwrinkles.txt

Heaven please help the U.S. of A.!

Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

What a bunch of retards. Heck most people who want to hunt buffalo I think would pay $500 dollars.
Think how much it would cost you if you bought all the meat at the store that would be in a buffalo.

and people wonder why our dumbass guvment is in so much debt.

sounds typical for parks. some years ago when I was on the fnaws board there was a disease going on in the yellostone bighorn herd. The sheep would go suddenly blind and pitchoff a cliff and die. We offered to pay the whole bill to hire biologists, vets etc. to find out what was wrong, and then to administer a cure. Their answer was, no. it's natures way to let them die. To this day anytime a mention is made of national parks all I can see is red

Them guys over there are nuts not to let us hunt. Hell they could have a nation wide drawing for the chance at a permit and make even more than the $500 a bison.

It is even scarier that they will NOT be testing for brucellosis. If anything that would be a better reason to remove them than "We harassed them several times and it didn't work so we're going to kill them!"

Butchbloc: That story of yours about takes the cake!
I am sickened to learn of that!
Maybe I should join the Foundation for North Amercian Wild Sheep!
I long ago quit supporting the Wolf lovers over at the rmef!
Your foundations offer to give medical aid and save those Sheep (that would never get to be Hunted there in the Park by the way) exemplifies the true nature of sportsmen!
Bless you for that and shame on the national parks cretins who stood in your way and let those poor Wild Sheep perish!
Inexcuseable!
I agree with you on your assessment of the national parks heirarchy!
Sheesh!!!

Jarrod: I have some friends Hunting Buffalo this year and they are paying way more than $500.00 to harvest relatively young animals (3 1/2 years old). For a person interested in a lot of wonderful and healthful meat, a beautiful winter Buffalo robe or a rug for the wall and an attractive skull for display in ones home or den (I have one on my fireplace!) they (we) would gladly pay that amount or more!
And we would do the work.
I read today in another paper that the national parks people are going to now pay to have the wild Bison loaded into trucks and they are going to truck them "somewhere" then kill them!
Sheesh....
I raise my previous estimate of governmental wasted and lost monies on this fouled up venture from $300,000.00 to $375,000.00!!!
Sheeesh!
I wonder if the homeless folks that the meat will be given to will offer to pay to have the skulls processed or the hides tanned - ipso facto - more lost jobs and wages to boot!
My friends over the years have taken mostly the 3 1/2 year old ranch raised Buffalo and they yield if I recall correctly about 375 pounds of cut and wrapped meat!
Yeah, and I wonder who will pay for the processing of the Buffalo into cut and wrapped (deliverable) food for the homeless!
Yeah, for sure, it will be you and I the taxpayers!
Considering the butcher costs involved - I raise my previous estimate of wasted money from $375,000.00 to $445,000.00!!!
And if the national parks service wanted the poor fed with this Buffalo meat I would still pay them the $500.00 to shoot the one Buffalo and I would transport the Buffalo to a butcher and I would pay the meat processing costs ON TOP OF the original price I would pay for the Buffalo permit!!!
Sheesh.
Take a breath.
Give me shelter.
Wheres it gonna end?
Heaven help us.
Whatcha gonna do?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

MThuntr: Here I was, not in keeping with the true spirit of sportsmanship, thinking that only Montana residents be allowed to pay to harvest the 200 Buffalo!
I guess my mind set was the Buffalo are out on Montanas private lands and Montanans would be most able to get there to where the Buffalo are quickest and such.
You are so right!
I was wrong.
Sportsmen from all across the United States, Canada and the world would LOVE to get a chance to pay the national parks folks to solve this "problem" and get a chance to go Buffalo Hunting (harvesting!) in one of the most beautiful valleys in the world - the Paradise Valley of the Yellowstone River!
I think I will write the "head" of the national parks service and give him a piece of my mind!
Not that it would do any good.
Thanks for setting me straight there MThuntr.
Imagine the commerce that would be produced by 200 Big Game Hunters coming from where ever to the SW corner of Montana, paying to travel, buying new Rifles, paying for motel or hotel rooms and restaurant food and cowboys to drag the Buffalo across the snow to roads and for taxidermists and wild game processors and on and on!
Opportunity missed - to say the least.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

My late father was retired Park Service, and he cussed those people for 25 yrs, with the exception of a very small minority. Cussed them for sloth, ignorance, you can about name it, and all the sins of the calendar as well.
I had a friend that is still Park Service, and if I had not overlooked a mountain of dubious character flaws for the sake of he too was a gun crank, I would not have rubbed elbows with him for 2 seconds.

The hunt would help all of those involved from issuing licenses to those who process meat. Just think sales of bonded core, solids, monolithics, and whatever heavy bullets would skyrocket because everyperson in the land would start loading for bison.

VG I think your estimate has the decimal in the wrong place! It will be way more than that! We are after all talking about the Feds.

Just more proof that there should be an IQ test given to vote, and the ACLU, U.N. and various other "organizations" need to be done away with! These "moral battles" are big $$$ makers for somebody! You can bet on that! Nate

BigNate: Good points on the I.Q. Tests for voting, the U.N. and money changing hands every time one of these "green schemes" gets rolling!
I have a sneaking hunch I know where the "big green" goes when the bureaucrat "greens" start doling out contracts and study funding and E.I.S.'s and on and on - they go to other "greens".
Good point follow the money.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Very interesting article, I am curious as to why the article names the Park Service as the ones doing the capturing because (and I am only quoting the Interagency Bison Management Plan as agreed to by the USFWS, NPS and State of Montana) the state is supposed to cbe doing all of the capturing. In cases where the overwinter population is less than 3000 then they are to be tested and released if negative for brucellosis; if the population is greater than 3000 then they are not even tested, they are taken to slaughter.

I believe the reason for this has to do with the quabbling that occured while parties wanted to sign the agreement in 2000. Unfortunately, the problem with this particuliar portion of the agreement lies with the cattle ranchers, they refused to accept "huning" as a control on the population because the response time was not fast enough.

I do agree with you 100% though, they should be hunted to be kept under control-- keep up the political pressure!!

IV

After the cow elk licence was reduced from 3,000 to 100, I'm sure the town of Gardiner, MT could use the increase dollars a buffalo hunt would bring in.

Also, The local FW&P's dept in Bozeman is holding a depredation elk hunt that was only advertised in the local Bozeman paper. How fair in that? By the time I saw it on their web site, the list was full.

They need to think outside the box! Everyone needs a fair chance at these hunts.

You guys aren't being practical. If the word hunter was mentioned the lawsuits would fly. It would take years and tremendous piles of money to end it with no benefit to the govt

And I look at this a bit differently. The idea of having HUNTERS harvest 200 buffalo would be a media disaster....for Hunters and gun owners. I'm happy they are deciding to slaughter them and be done with it.

WHO are You going to get to come in and do the hunting? Half or MORE of the hunters here don't know how to hunt without riding the roads in a pickup. FEW can truly shoot. Even with FWP Supervision how many can place a bullet of adequate size and power to CLEANLY kill a bison? So many hunters here are absolute idiots. Not how I want to be portrayed by the media.

How are they going to take care of the carcass?? It takes SEVERAL people to properly handle it so that IF the animal has brucelosis it's not spread.

Let them slaughter the damned things and be done with it.

You can complain all you want about this but the whole Bison deal is about one thing....RANCHERS. Who rules the Legislature? Agriculture and Ranching. Who makes the Laws? Same reply.

FN in MT

Do none of you remember when they did have Bison hunts in Montana? What happened?

Fund For Animals, etc, animal rights groups sued the shit out of them and got it stopped. That's what.

Blaming your lack of hunting rights (a success for the animal rights dipshits) on ranchers is just plain ignorant. Most of them are hunters just like you.

quote:

Originally posted by VarmintGuy:
The national park service has rounded up 200 Bison in SW Montana and is preparing to slaughter them as quickly as possible!

Wasn't brucellosis originally a cattle disease that was introduced to bison by ranchers?

Yeah, no matter what it must have been a rancher's fault somehow!

It was most likely caused by Park officials when they "augmented the herd" with privately owned buffalo that were never intended to go back to the wild over 100 years ago:

quote:

1902 Congress appropriated funds to save YNP bison from extinction. Fewer than 50 wild bison remained in the park. The park herd was augmented with 21 untested bison from semi-domesticated herds in Montana and Texas....

....1917 Serologic tests on aborting bison indicated brucellosis infection at the Lamar Buffalo Ranch. The source of the initial infection is unknown. The most likely sources would have been either the bison that were introduced in 1902 , which would have acquired the disease from cattle, or dairy cattle that also were maintained at the Lamar Buffalo Ranch

FN in Montana: I laughed so hard reading your posting that I just had to let you know about that. Maybe you did not want it to be funny but the "negativism" was so overwhelming it hit me as funny.
And do I notice a note of negativity in your post regarding Hunters in general?
You know, I presume, that this is a pro-Hunter, Big Game Hunting Forum? frequented by Big Game Hunters!
So, FN in Montana, you do not mind paying high taxes and watching various government agencies wasting taxpayers hard earned monies?
Sheesh to that.
I can place a Hunting bullet where I want it! And I feel most of the Hunters I know could "easily" handle harvesting a Buffalo.
Indeed I have witnessed 9 or 10 Buffalo being harvested by my Hunting acquaintances and all were one shot kills. Yeah one of those was from the passenger seat of a pickup but with proper shot placement the Buffalo don't "get away". Is that what you are worried about?
How do HUNTERS handle any large creature they knock down?
They work on it!
Its a part of Hunting I rather enjoy - if I may be so bold as to say something POSITIVE here on the Big Game Hunting Forum?
Sheesh, FN in Montana have you ever considered taking up golf or flying kites?
Hunting and Hunters sure don't seem to bouy you up much!
I would reconsider your position on government waste, IF nothing else, there FN!
But if your motto is "I'm tryin to think but nothin' happens" then maybe reconsidering things is difficult for you?
I don't know but maybe, if possible, reconsider your negativity towards your fellow Hunters - just a thought.
A "positive" outlook often gets "positive" rewards.
Nothing you stated though gives me pause to change my opinion on government waste and I am always looking for a better way to get things done - I think my suggestion is a better way!
Yep, I still think that Hunters would come from near and far to Hunt the big Buffs!
I think there were 12,000+ people in Montana alone that applied for the Montana State run Buffalo Hunt. I think there were 50 tags offered recently for this Hunt.
And someone above was sure right about the commerce that is now needed down that a way with the recent amazing reductions in the special Elk Tags!
If you may recall FN in Montana those special Elk permits were reduced from 2,850 in the year 2,000 to less than 100 in 2,005!
So the motel, restaurant, wrangler, gas station, butcher, taxidermist folks are CERTAINLY in need of some more Hunters.
Your point about the ranchers and the agriculture people is, muddled, I think?
If the ranchers and the agriculture folks want the Bison shot and they control the legislature then (if you are correct?) why doesn't the legislature just issue 200 more Buffalo permits?
Maybe you are just not making yourself clear to me on that part of your posting?
I still would pay $500.00 to harvest one of the "problem" Buffalo's!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

FN in Montana , Thats a good point you posted.

Alot of us are Pretty good shots and good Hunters ,but there are alot of local idiots out there.
Ill never forget these morons that shot AK47's and who knows what else down a cliff above our camp site, proceeded to get their beat up chevy suburban stuck in a ditch then came down and asked us to help them . Instead, We all loaded up and moved our camp site.

Parker Heinlein, a staff writer for the Bozeman Chronicle, wrote a very good article on this latest Park Service boondogle, published on January 31st of this year. At the time the article was published, the Park's plan was to ship 500 buffalo from Yellowstone to be shaughtered in Nampa, Idaho at a cost to the taxpayers of $50,000. Yesterday, I heard on the radio that the total number of buffalo shipped was up to 700.

I have to take exception to the post by FN in Montana. He writes like he is a spokesman for the anti hunters. I have only lived and hunted in Montana for 30 years, and unfrotunately I know every bushel has a few bad apples, but I have yet to see the numbers of hunting slobs that FN writes about. But I have never hunted by Cascade either.

Buffalo ARE big animals, but they are not that difficult to kill. I killed mine (quickly) with one shot with a .54 caliber Hawkin muzzleloader. I'm not advocating shooting buffalo with a .22-250, but I know of several that were one shot, almost instaneous kills with one. Proper bullet placement.

I also don't agree with trying to put buffalo problem blame on Ranchers. The livelihood of cattle ranchers depends on their herds being disease free. Remember, most of our wildlife live at least part of the year on these ranches.
As butchloc mentioned earlier about the pink-eye epidemic a few years ago with the Yellowstone bighorn sheep, there are cures for domestic diseases in wildlife.

I agree with VarmintGuy. Hunting should be the tool used to harvest the excess buffalo coming out of Yellowstone Park. Dead is dead to the buffalo, and why not earn revenue for the government instead of wasting more of our tax dollars shipping buffalo to out of state slaughter houses.

And of the 50 buffalo licences Montana issued this year. 25 of them were reserved for our local Indian tribes. I guess they think the news media and anti hunters feel that it is OK for Indians to kill buffalo.

There is an article posted on the Yellowstone Park wed site about the recent Bison slaughter.It only cost $181,000 to haul and slaughter 818 Bison that includes $41,000 for homeland security agents and another $9,000 for Park County MT deputies,go figure.Our effiecent federal goverment at work and oh yeah the Montana tribes got the skulls and hides.w/regards

quote:

Originally posted by FN in Montana:
.
.
.
How are they going to take care of the carcass?? It takes SEVERAL people to properly handle it so that IF the animal has brucelosis it's not spread.
.
.
.

Fooey. Brucellosis is a cattle disease, brought to the bison by ranchers. They should be paying to vaccinate the bison herd now, while it's still small.

TomP;The Bison got it from elk who came in from WY.Montana is certified free of it in cattle and has been for years.Wyoming was brucellosis freeuntil recently and it is believed the cattle got it from elk fed by the goverment at Jackson Hole where it is readily transmitted whith all those elk being fed hay in close quarters,that being said it is believed the WY elk got it from cattle prior to 1917.w/regards

quote:

You can complain all you want about this but the whole Bison deal is about one thing....RANCHERS. Who rules the Legislature? Agriculture and Ranching. Who makes the Laws? Same reply.

FN in Montana: Oh please don't make me laugh, you honestly belive that farmers and ranchers control the law making process? Just for an idiotic statement like that the rest of your post is crap. I think there are more than enough capable hunters here to cleanly kill a bison without a problem or are you the only "special" one that has enough talent to shoot straight? Those "evil" ranchers and farmers that you refer to FEED these animals from the Bison to the ring neck pheasant a good part of the year with no benifit to them, acutally in most cases these animals can cost the land owners thousands of dollars in damage each year. So please place the blame where it belongs.....a government that is fiscally out of control and doesn't care, it just keeps taking money out of YOUR pocket by printing more money its called "inflation" other words legalized stealing by gov.org

Actually bearcat, FN has a good point. You must not know much about politics in MT or WY if you think that the ranching industry doens't swing a BIG stick in these parts. A lot of the crappy politics in these parts is a direct result.

This isn't the 1930's, brucellosis should not even be an issue anymore but it is because old habits die hard with ranchers.

MG

Gophershooter: Thank you very much for drawing those costs to my attention! I still think that $500.00 from each Buffalo Hunter to kill 818 Buffalo would create more income for locals and that $40,900.00 in "lost income" from the Buffalo tags would have to be added to the "alleged" cost of $181,000.00 dollars that the bureaucrats fess up to for a VarmintGuy understandable total of $221,900.00! That is some bucks!
Thanks again for the heads up.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

Originally posted by Madgoat:
Actually bearcat, FN has a good point. You must not know much about politics in MT or WY if you think that the ranching industry doens't swing a BIG stick in these parts. A lot of the crappy politics in these parts is a direct result.

This isn't the 1930's, brucellosis should not even be an issue anymore but it is because old habits die hard with ranchers.

MG

Actually Madgoat, I do know about the politics in these areas, I didn't say they didn't pull some weight albeit ALLOT less weight than they used to by far. I belive that FN stated and I quote "RANCHERS. Who rules the Legislature? Agriculture and Ranching. Who makes the Laws? same reply." Having some pull which every lobbying group does and "Ruling the Legislature" Is two different things and I for one would sure as hell have the Farmers and Ranchers have the pull over the greenies, anti hunter, and anti gunners who have the most pull here in Oregon. This issue should have been controled by selling harvest tags to the general public that wanted to hunt them, the people that manage these agencies and make these assinine desicions should have to answer to the public, as it is now they are practically untouchable.

This issue should have been controled by selling harvest tags to the general public that wanted to hunt them, the people that manage these agencies and make these assinine desicions should have to answer to the public, as it is now they are practically untouchable.

And what agencies would you be refering to? If you are so knowledgeable as to the "politics" of MT, you would already know that the Montana Department of Agriculture has been behind this slaughter from day one. They were the first to cry brucellosis, and it was their hired gunners who got this whole thing started (and pissed a whole lot of folks off), the NPS is late into the game if anything.

As for selling bison tags, Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks has been left on the sidelines darn near this entire time until recently. They should have been hunting these furry critters from day one but were trumped by the Ag community when this all started. Unfortunately, MT let the Dept. of Ag have the reins on this deal and that is why it is such a mess...while to the south Wyoming has the same types of issues, but has been dealing with it and hunting bison for a long time.

My whole point, is that brucellosis poses little threat in todays times. We pasteurize our dairy products, cattle can be vaccinated...let's get out of the 1930's!

MG

Judging by the date of the first post, it is probably too late for these bison. Next time this hapens, I wonder if it would be effective to provoke PETA into opposing the park service.

H. C.

quote:

Originally posted by Madgoat:
My whole point, is that brucellosis poses little threat in todays times. We pasteurize our dairy products, cattle can be vaccinated...let's get out of the 1930's!

"Little threat" in your utopian veiw that doesn't match reality. Until you re-write the laws and make disappear all the other little factors that mean losing the "Brucellosis Free" status means crashing a major part of the economy in these states, it's a threat.

Maybe if people such as yourself, who are not "stuck in the 1930s," offered to pay full market value to any rancher who has his whole herd destroyed because it's infected, ranchers wouldn't see it as a threat. Since you, nor anybody else is going to do that, ranchers and anybody whose livelyhood depends upon agriculture (a pretty large percentage of these states) will continue to see brucellocis as a threat--for very good reason.

Crap like that is really easy to say when it's not a large portion of your net worth on the line.

Maybe if people such as yourself, who are not "stuck in the 1930s," offered to pay full market value to any rancher who has his whole herd destroyed because it's infected, ranchers wouldn't see it as a threat. Since you, nor anybody else is going to do that, ranchers and anybody whose livelyhood depends upon agriculture (a pretty large percentage of these states) will continue to see brucellocis as a threat--for very good reason.

Pay for the ranchers mistakes because he didn't vaccinate? Heck, the ranching industry is the most subsidized industry in the world, we already pay 60% of most operating costs...might as well pay for some cattle too! I see they are going to lower the federal grazing rate as well...why not make it free? Why not just put them on the federal payroll? They are darn near there anyhow.

All I'm saying, is that brucellosis poses NO threat to human health like it did 70 years ago. This shouldn't even be an issue. I would imagine that BVD poses a bigger threat and loss to ranchers than brucellosis does these days, yet you never hear about it.

MG

Does anyone have any direct evidence that bison actually transmit brucellosis to cattle in the first place?

If they do, and I am somewhat doubtful, then wouldn't elk also transmit brucellosis? I don't see anyone advocating the exterpation of elk, although I'm certain most ranchers would prefer it.

Brent

quote:

And what agencies would you be refering to? If you are so knowledgeable as to the "politics" of MT, you would already know that the Montana Department of Agriculture has been behind this slaughter from day one. They were the first to cry brucellosis, and it was their hired gunners who got this whole thing started (and pissed a whole lot of folks off), the NPS is late into the game if anything.

When I said "agencies" I meant any agency that pulls stuff like this. If there is a legitamate threat to the livelyhood of the people in the regon and that was the basis of the desicion fine. Sounds to me like they just sat on their hands too long in any case instead of taking care of the problem as it arrised. As for the the Ranching and Agriculture industry being the most subsidized industry in the world I think you'd better do your research if your going to make blanket statments like that. Other countries subsidies are WAY more than they are here, one of the major ones being "free trade" subisdation through currency differences. No farmer or rancher wants subsidies for the product what they would prefer is to be able to sell their product for a fair price so they can survive. And before you blow a fuse I know that the Ranching industry has had a good run the last few years but for the previous 15-20 years they have been scraping the bottom of the barrel. As for the Agriculture end of it how would you like to be paid at 1970 wages for your job??????? That is what they are paying fot the ag products today. Problem is that everything they use to operate has skyrocketed, a combine in 1970 cost around 12,000 now it costs 190,000 and they are still paying the same for whats going though the combine. Anyway I don't expect to change your mind. Truth is the AG and Ranchers are being subsidized because they need to survive to keep the country independant (as much as that is posible)And you the consumer and taxpayer are going to pay for it one way or another......subsidies or at the grocery store shelf, because no business can survive without raising its prices for 16 years while its inputs have gone up 500% just reality pal.

In short someone dropped the ball on the Bison problem by not dealing with it when it started, and it sounds like now hail mary tactics are being used to catch up.....too bad, not a good situation.

What Bearcat said;I would also like to add,there is a lot of ignorance being put out as fact on this thread.Brucellosis if contracted causes abortions in ungulates.Ranchers do vacinate for it but it is not 100% effective.Wyoming is one case away from losing their Brucellosis free status.Some states have already banned cattle from the Boulder area where 29 cases were found in early December 2005.If a ranchers herd has a case he is quarantined and has to test all of his cattle and deystroy those infected.No big deal,its just his lively hood.I fail to understand the attitudes toward ranchers by some posters.w/regards

Gopher shooter - While the symptoms of brucellosis are not in question, the mode of transmission surely is. I know of no documented study that illustrates that it moves between bison and cattle, yet brucellosis does appear in cattle in places hundreds of miles away from bison (and elk - don't forget the elk).

The attitude towards ranchers has a little to do with their often belligerent socialistic attitudes about how everyone owes them - and even now, everyone pays them.

If cattle ranchers were capitalist instead of subsidized socialists - cows would be extinct in the west.

Brent

quote:

Lets see 200 Buffalo culled by willing Hunters (willing to pay $500.00 apiece!) would come to $100,000.00

VG:

I agree with ya 1000%.....

But you know how the government would look at gaining $100,000.00

Lets see, with that, they could buy two Chevy 4 Door Long Bed 4 WD Pickups with the DuraMax Diesels in them... that they would use to drive around picking up trash with ( once a week) at local camp grounds for 24 months.. then they would wholesale them to some Dealer in California or somewhere like that... who will buy them wholesale for $2500.00 each...

so to the bureaucrats...

lets see, $5,000 net on one side... or being a politically correct hero to a bunch of GreenPeace fanatics, who will offer me an overpaid job for doing this, once I retire from my job of 30 yrs of 'doing not much', working for the Forest Service.... Hmmmm.....

Sad to say, but I will bet dollars to donuts, that is EXACTLY how the rationale is calculated over this...

seafire

Brent;This was not directed at you,but if you will read my earlier post I stated that the bison got it from elk.But since no one knows for sure how else it could be spread,it is normal that ranchers would be concerned
Ranchers are no diferent than other people there are good and sorry regardless of how they make their living.We must be missing out on something here in MT because these subsidies so often mentioned are not commonplace around here.The only people I know that profit from the goverment are the rich that come here buy a ranch and benefit from the tax dodges.w/regards

Gphershooter, can you direct me to how you know that it jumped from elk to bison. I am truly curious. It is quite possible that the bison got it from cattle - for instance. I also do not see any reason to take out bison for purposes of brucellosis if elk are just as likely (or more likely) to be the reservoir for the disease. Yet, elk control for brucellosis, is a nonstarter and the ranchers know it.

Those subsidies take many forms, not least of all they grazing fees for public lands that haven't changed in value since god was a pup.

Ranchers are not any different than anyone else - everyone wants his or her personal subsidy. Farmers here are head-over-heels for them, and every good farmer regardless of political persuasion will stoop to taking as much as possible. But that doesn't make it any less socialistic.

Brent

Brent;Do a word search something like Brucellosis in elk wyoming,I found several articles mostly in WY newspapers and if I remember correctly Yellowstone Parks website adresses the disease in the park Bison.w/regards

gophershooter,
Newspapers will print anything. That doesn't cut it for me. I am living right next door to the USDA National Animal Disase Lab. They do a lot of work on brucellosis, and, while I don't follow this literature closely, I have not heard that they have shown that it can, much less does, move from bison to cattle. They have a resident herd to experiment on. So, perhaps, they, or others, have some data that I am unaware of - thought you might be on to something but I guess not. Newspapers are not primary sources, and that's what I'm asking for.

Brent