M4 style AR. Mid-length Recon barrel, with 1 in 7 or 1 in 9 twist, flat top upper, match 2-stage trigger, Vortex flash hider, ACOG - backed up by Troy flip up iron sights. Multiple magazines, loaded with 60 grain partitions. Deadly on everything from rats and parrots, to lions, killer monkeys and girraffs.

In hilly country, even if the brush is dense, you may get a 200m shot across the head of a draw or down a road. More reach than that is usually pointless. Most shots will be far closer – and in dense brush you have less time to shoot – so your cartridge must fit in a rifle that you use well in a hurry. I usually keep my rifle in my hands, so I want it about seven pounds, and six-pound rifles get more interesting every day.

For a variety of game plus defense against two- and four-legged predators, any repeater in a cartridge from 6.5 Swede to 375 H&H will do, though recoil starts to matter in lighter rifles.

WWII military cartridges are classic, especially in a good bolt gun. Military semis are nice if you don’t mind weight. When game is big the bullet should be big, the range should be short and the rifle should be reliable. For me that means Mausers of the 35 Whelen/9.3x62 class and up. Anything that does well in a 22†barrel is ideal. Shorter barrels are only slightly easier to carry, but they are loud, which I hate.

Light can be very low light in thick brush, especially in foul weather. I use a scope because in low light I shoot scopes better than anything else. 4x is my favorite, especially on a synthetic stocked bolt action in 308, 30-06, 35 Whelen or 9.3x62. Stainless is nice. A coat of paint makes some people ill, but it works.

Anytime you’re in country with thick forest, study used hunting rifles in the gunshops to see what the locals use. The military k98 or M-48 in 8x57 are superb, but they balance best in military trim or as full-custom rifles. As you strip weight off in the cheaper conversions, balance goes out the window.

Mostly, make sure the rifle is stocked for the type of sights you prefer, that it fits you, and that they have ammo wherever you’re going.


Okie John

quote:

Originally posted by MrHawg:
M4 style AR. Mid-length Recon barrel, with 1 in 7 or 1 in 9 twist, flat top upper, match 2-stage trigger, Vortex flash hider, ACOG - backed up by Troy flip up iron sights.

Very Close! similar gun but in .458 SOCOM. Any gun that shoots this well with 250 Gn to 500 gn is a friend of mine. Topped with the Loopy 1x-3x CQ/T, Great optic for this gun.

For a traditional approach... The new Marlin XLR with a shorter barrel and iron sights, in...


45-70 of course.

Since I posted on this thread over three years ago I built my own "practical rifle"... it's basically the same formula I laid out with a few variation's:



SS M70 30-06 Fwt, barrel cut to 21" and an NECG Classic rear sight and XS-Sights front installed. Floorplate re-contoured and bead-blasted and Williams extractor installed. It's bedded into a Bansner stock with barrel floated. On top is a VXII 2x7 in low Burris Zee's and all-steel Leupold bases (JB-Welded to the receiver). With Uncle Mike's Mountain Sling and five rounds it goes 8lbs 1oz exactly.

It shoots most bullets extremely well... lately I've been working with a 165 TSX at 2,900 fps. The rifle has so far accounted for three six point bull elk, a couple of pronghorns, a black bear and various deer.

If I wanted to take it to the next level and be totally true to the concept I'd install a fixed 4x Leupold in Leupold QR's.

I've got lots of guns but under this scenario -- My 12 ga. pump with various loads including slugs, buckshot and birdshot. I suspect most of my meals would be gained using the birdshot.

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Pay:
Hi<br />If you was forced to take one gun with you in an exploring trip in djungle whicu gun and caliber would be your choice the goal is to provid you meat and protection.<br />BR<br />Danny

The question is to generic; Are you alone/backpacking or have porters or vehicles? What jungle? What country? Restrictions on military calibers? Restrictions on quanity of ammo? What type cartridges available in country for resupply? And "protection" from what?

It's an intriguing question and one to be considered but the other information needs to be considered for a logical and useful choice.

Larry Gibson

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Gibson:

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Pay:
Hi, If you was forced to take one gun with you in an exploring trip in the jungle which gun and caliber would be your choice the goal is to provid you meat and protection.
Danny

The question is too generic; Are you alone/backpacking or have porters or vehicles? What jungle? What country? Restrictions on military calibers? Restrictions on quanity of ammo? What type cartridges available in country for resupply? And "protection" from what?

It's an intriguing question and one to be considered but the other information needs to be considered for a logical and useful choice.

Larry Gibson

I like the original question... each person has come up with their own scenario and each armed themselves for that purpose. From Pump Shotgun to AK-47. If the question was exactly specific, the answers would be too. This is fun.

Well then if it's wide open for halucinations then the question was perfectly answered years ago by Townsend Whelen, AKO "Mr. Rifleman"; he spent time exploring the jungles of Central America with his '03 Sporter, ball ammo and reduced loads with cast bullets for small game.

Having read Whelen years ago I explored much the same in Panama and Honduras with an M16A1, M193 ammo and reduced loads (pulled the M193 bullet, dumped the powder, pulled bullets from .45 ACP and poured that powder into the M193 case, reseated the M193 bullet (sometimes backwards for better close range killing of small game) and crimped the bullet with demo crimpers. Duplicating this load at home it runs right at 1500 fps. I refer to these as "Panama loads". Of course they are single shot and do not function the action. I carried the M193 in 30 rd mags and the Panama loads in a 20 rd mag for quick recognition. Those small forays into the jungles were some of the highlights of my military career.

Larry Gibson

A 12ga over/under or a side by side, with a slug in one barrel just in case and a #3 in the other one just to collect something for eat.
As Orion said, plenty of shotshells from 00 buckshots to #5.

Those double barrled shotguns have less spare parts to suffer any trouble in a difficult enviorment as the jungle is.

Of course I will feel happy with a bolt rifle in 308win , 30/06, etc. with solids and softs..

L

well the rifle has to be one that is a allround and that can be used for very much different .

358 winchester, 35 whelen with pistolbullets for some loads and heavy bullet for other uses. 458 win with some 300 grain bullets and 500 grain and 400 grain bullet for instance

quote:

If you was forced to take one gun with you in an exploring trip in djungle whicu gun and caliber would be your choice the goal is to provid you meat and protection.

It's Hard to belive some of the some of the responces I've read to this question: Drillings, Leveraction 45/70, 410/22lr combo, give me a break.

He said protection that means two legs as well as four. The two legit kind usually come in squad stength or better.

One of my M1A's would be first choice, with FN/Fal second.

DrB

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:

quote:

If you was forced to take one gun with you in an exploring trip in djungle whicu gun and caliber would be your choice the goal is to provid you meat and protection.

It's Hard to belive some of the some of the responces I've read to this question: Drillings, Leveraction 45/70, 410/22lr combo, give me a break.

He said protection that means two legs as well as four. The two legit kind usually come in squad stength or better.

One of my M1A's would be first choice, with FN/Fal second.

DrB

That's why this is a GREAT question...

Dr. B, I don't know where you live, but I'm more likely to be attacked by a Dog than a Squad. I don't thing there's ever been a documented squad level assault on US Soil, unless you count Ruby Ridge and Waco and then M1A vs. M1A Abrams is still a losing proposition. My 458 SOCOM is choice 1, but the XLR in 45-70 would be a great "Hungry Crackhead" stopper

You don't say whether supplies can be replenished regularly and reliably, nor do you state how LONG this outing will be.

Assuming you mean a lengthy/prolonged excursion that's not under constant threat of gorilla fighters and without the ability to regularly resupply, I'd carry my old, trusty friend - a stainless/synthetic Ruger M77/22 rimfire. I've had this rifle for almost 15 years... it's plenty worn and battered but functions flawlessly and is accurate as hell. I can carry a 500 round brick of ammo with ease and can feed myself and defend myself adequately if necessary. The .22 rimfire ammo is the most commonly found/scrounged in the world without question and you'll have no trouble keeping it fed. Otherwise all you've got is an expensive club...

IF the issue of resupply was not a problem and I wasn't going to be up against aggressive attack on a regular basis, then I'd carry my stainless/synthetic M77/MkII in 30-06.

If I was in a dangerous place where human vermin were a prime concern my Bushmaster AR-15 in 7.62x39 would be my pick...

Collins
Last I checked their are not any jungles in the Continetal USA and that is what the question based on.

My M1a does a great job on dogs also. I ran in to a pack of 8 strais a while back at about 75 yds no more than 15 ec later they were all DRT and I still had ammo in a 20 rd mag. Great pratice for hunting or bad guys.

45-70s and 458 SOCOM are not in the same league.
I do enjoy shooting obsolete rounds and Guns. I even like hunting with them for a change. But when their is a chance the game can hunt back I leave the rachet guns at Home.

DR B

I think I agree with Dr B, when the game can hunt back I'd want something heavier than what can usually be chambered in a self-shucker.

Though if you have say a BAR in 338Mag a second shot probably wouldn't be needed.

Or if you had a REAL "BAR" I can't think of anything that'd like absorbing 20rounds of M1-AP ammo....

But a REAL BAR is a heavy sucker....

AllanD

I think if you don't get to choose what jungle, the most lodgical choice is an AK-47. I don't particularly like these weapons, but one cannot deny the proliferation of the AK. Mags and ammo everywhere and guns and parts everywhere.

Ganyana has posted several times about using FN/FALs in 7.62 Nato (308 win) for elephant and cape buffalo culls, Ray Atkinson has seen elephants and buffalo killed with AK47s. Bell used 7X57 mausers for Elephant.

From these gentelmens testimony I feal sure that my M1A is adequate for any four legged animal, but more important it is adequate for the most dangerous game the two legged kind.

Dr B

quote:

If you were to take one gun with you ... Which gun and caliber would be your choice? ... The goal is to provide you with meat and protection.

Steyr Scout in .308 Winchester (7.62mm NATO)

This question was considered and the answer well thought out years ago by Jeff Cooper. The rifle pictured above is his response.

Click here for Jeff Cooper's biography

Click here for Jeff Cooper's Scout Rifle definition

Click here for Jeff Cooper's Commentaries

There are other choices, but this one is packaged and ready to go.

Cick here for Steyr Arms USA

Click here for Mannlicher Scout technical data

Click here for The Steyr Mannlicher Scout Rifle Site

The Steyr Scout rifle is also available in other chamberings where military calibers are prohibited.

These calibers are currently listed as offered:

.223 Rem., .243 Win., 7 mm-08 Rem., .308 Win. and .376 Steyr

I think I would take a HS Precision PS-2000 lightweight sporter in 308Win. I guess since we are in the jungle, ranges will be, reliablity crucial, and low light conditions, I would mount a set of fiber optic open sights. The optional 10 round magazine(s) would nice as well; as would the compact ammo.

The Lee-Enfield Jungle Carbine would suit that niche well. If it could help SAS in Malaysia ,it can help an adventurer/explorer to find out what is hidden in the great jungle of Congo

....i would leave my fancy M98 sporters at home
and bring a K98 in 8x57....
Sidearm.....a 1911 .45cal...
or a good 12gauge pump

quote:

Depends on what you mean by djungle? Asia, Latin/ South America or Africa??

IMHO, Johan (above) asks the defining question.

BTW, "djungle?" Is that like "dhood?"

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:

Ray Atkinson has seen elephants and buffalo killed with AK47s.

I wouldn't believe 20% of what that old cur said here, or anywhere else.

As to the question, I'll parrot a previous poster and make my choice a 12 guage with a wide variety of loads. I would think that ij most jungles, the vegetation is thick enough that a rifle and long shots are impractical. For defense and a food getter, I'll take my chances with a trusty 12 bore.

If the jungle was located in Africa or Asia then I'd want a Cape Gun or a superposed combination gun in 12 gauge over 9.3x74R. If our jungle is the South American Amazon basin then a 22 rimfire over 20 gauge combination gun (think Savage M24 Camper's Companion wearing several coats of Rustoleum) ought to suffice.

I worked in the Peruvian jungle for 12 years and the only non military gun that I ever saw were 16 gauge single shots. These work fine on everything from sacha vaca [tapir] to otorongo [jaguar] and everything else.
Regards, Keith

I'd have to say a Stolle Panda in 6mmPPC with a Leupold 36X ......

Just because that's about the ONLY gun that WASN'T mentioned!!!!!

Does anyone have any experience that can actually give some advice rather than just listing the guns they have in their closet???

I don't have a clue. For me I guess it would depend a whole lot on what was the biggest/meanest critter you're likely to bump into.

Kyler

quote:

Originally posted by Kyler Hamann:
For me I guess it would depend a whole lot on what was the biggest/meanest critter you're likely to bump into.

Kyler

In what I figure is even remotely close to a real world scenario I'd fear starvation a great deal more than I'd fear the likes of the boogeyman. They do have trees to climb, even in this wretched fantasy-jungle, I'll assume...

KG

As many have posted it depends on what Jungle.
I would want more than one gun.
If at all possible I would want a handgun of course.
Either a 1911 45 ACP or a S&W 4" 44 mag, stainless steel.
I prefer the 45 for protection against people and the 44 against animals. Which i chose would depent on the "politics" of the area.
Like wise for the long gun.
In a SA jungle the drilling would be hard to beat.
Read some of Whelens writings from down there.

In Africa, Krieghoff may have the answer in their African drilling. With 2 Nitro express bbls and a 20 guage shotgun you have protection from large animals and the ability to forage in one gun.

Still there is still the problem with protection from people.

An M1-A, FN-FAL, or H&K 91 would be hard to beat here.
It is a hard choice. You can sometimes avoid animals easier than bad people.

You must consider both problems.

Since such an Expedition would surely consist of several people a combination of Arms is the best solution.

Also the legality of bringing such arms into the country must be considered.

HEY MARTY!!! Are you listening???

If you made Shotshells for the 458 SOCOM you'd be a hero. That's be the perfect gun... on an AR platform a SS 458 SOCOM 18 inch barrel and two taped together mags, one Shotshells, the other 350 gn round noses. Night vision behind an EO-tech red-dot. Hmmmmmmm

quote:

Does anyone have any experience that can actually give some advice rather than just listing the guns they have in their closet???

The question presupposes a FANTASY most people would never presume to see. Guys like Jeff Cooper have had actual simlar experiences and military survival training for just such an occurrence. What's wrong with that?