Retired 20 years in the military and got offered a few choices in my next job.

Income should be mid enough to afford a $400,000 mortage. So I am thinking if it is available of buying a big enough place I can shoot some deer on.

I can also hunt where available on military bases as a retiree.

Question:
Where would you move?

Problem with Utah and Colorado is we can't afford a big enough place to hunt on. But nothing keeping us from booking hunts.

Choices:
Salt Lake, UT
Bismark, ND
Frankfort, KY
Olympia, WA
Denver, CO

Question:
We were also considering if I make it through the interview process these ones:

The perks on Riyad is it only a 2 year job, and it pays very well. Would be an easy segway into a job in Europe.

The Garmisch job isn't ideal, but location is amazing.

The Grafenworh job is the same as the Riyad job a great job, but obviously better locaiton. Pay isn't that far apart.

Choices:
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Garmisch, Germany
Grafenworh, Germany

 

If you only want deer KY might not be to bad.

I would consider less of a house and more land.

None of them would be a ideal location for me.

Buy a less expensive place spend the rest of the money on traveling and hunting trips.

I voted Utah (although I wouldn't live right in the Salt Lake Valley). International Airport, less crime, decent cost of living, incredible public lands, variable weather, not too crowded (yet). Downside is tags can be harder to come by than some areas, but there is a variety of animals to hunt in state and within a 6 hour drive. I like our gun laws and our State is pretty well run.

As PDShooter says, buy a smaller place and use the savings to go on hunts. The upkeep of a ranch can get expensive-- insurance, maintenance, etc. Then you are worrying about trespassers, fires, etc. You can buy tags on ranches to hunt deer in Utah for $2,000-2,500, then buy a WY tag for $400 and a Colorado tag for $400. WY antelope for $350 whenever you want. Every so often you can purchase an auction permit, take the tax deduction and bypass the whole draw process for various states.

I enjoy living in Utah. As your profile states, you already know about it too.

MC, we just got off the boat, and I just changed my profile a couple days ago.

But growing up in Wyoming I have really been here my whole life.

There is another job in Cheyenne, but pay sucks and we can't afford the kind of place we'd like to have there. So we aren't considering it.

As for Utah we are looking at houses near Park City, Eagle Mountain and Tooele. She gets to pick as she isn't going to work again until our kids are in school.

Go hunt Utah public ground in a general season just once before you decide to move there. Every time I'm there I swear it'll be my last time. Thankfully I haven't been back in 4 years. Throw "sportsmanship" out the window. It's a damn zoo and the other hunters in the field are typically a-holes. It's sad because Utah is gorgeous and the people I meet when not hunting are great folks

Utah would be last on my list but that's just my opinion.

I have heard the shed hunters are the real problem.

My strategy for Utah is to only apply for the really hard to draw tags, and buy a landowner tag if I don't draw.

New Mexico is also a horrible place to hunt on a general license. Same strategy.

Idaho I am going to apply for mountain goat (and that's all they will let you do).

Wyoming I have worked out.

Nevada and Arizona you just apply and hope you get a tag.

Think a bit farther outside the box.

Buy a $200,000 house in a state that you enjoy 100% of the time.

Put in for the best areas in all the Western States, do not limit yourself to just hunting your own place. Hunt Canada, Idaho, buy a private land Elk tag in New Mexico, go to Africa.

Why spend $200,000 in land cost (+/-) to hunt one piece of property (probably small property at that)

Expand your horizons, hunt the whole damn world! Do you know how much hunting you can do with just the interest on a 7% note?

$14,000 is 7% of $200,000. $14,000 is a pretty healthy budget to do some DIY hunting or even 2-3 guided hunts per year.

Not to mention the extra money you are not spending on a $400,000 note, there is some extra income there to support a serious hunting habit.

Just my thoughts.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
I have heard the shed hunters are the real problem.

Its pathetic to see what those clowns pull on the winter range. It's a damn competition over there and it's a shame. Deer hunters, elk hunters, shed hunters, its all the same crowd

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
Go hunt Utah public ground in a general season just once before you decide to move there. Every time I'm there I swear it'll be my last time. Thankfully I haven't been back in 4 years. Throw "sportsmanship" out the window. It's a damn zoo and the other hunters in the field are typically a-holes. It's sad because Utah is gorgeous and the people I meet when not hunting are great folks

Utah would be last on my list but that's just my opinion.

It's been a while since I lived in Utah, but he's right. It seemed as though half the license plates in the mountains were from California. Most of them were real pricks. We called them City Savages.

If it was me, I'd take Bismark ND. KY doesnt have anything worth the bother to hunt and your other choices are really just variations on living in California, and so they suck. The best thing about North Dakota is that you will not have a bunch of Califs or Texans moving in and building McLodges on all sides of your property. Winter kill is a bitch up there.

I've lived in Bavaria and loved it, so I'd go with Garmisch. Maybe not the best place if your mormon, unless you are a "Jack".

Come to ND you can legally hunt on any private land that is not posted and many land owners will let you hunt if you ask. Also you can own just about any kind of gun you want, that is if you can afford the tax stamp and the price of the gun.

I'd suggest some Midwestern states such as Missouri, Kansas, Iowa, Minnesota, Arkansas, etc. Even Kentucky, Tennessee are good.

I do not recommend spending a big wad on a huge mortgage. Debt is so passé and puts you under the control of flakey bankers and others with criminal intent.

quote:

Originally posted by scojac:
It's been a while since I lived in Utah, but he's right. It seemed as though half the license plates in the mountains were from California. Most of them were real pricks. We called them City Savages.

The assholes I saw had Utah plates. Commonly referred to as "Utards" in other western states

I would look for a place that has a liberal deer limit. Maybe someplace like Mississippi. Plus add in good hunting for other species. Like turkeys for spring, plus ducks or upland birds.

quote:

Go hunt Utah public ground in a general season just once before you decide to move there. Every time I'm there I swear it'll be my last time. Thankfully I haven't been back in 4 years. Throw "sportsmanship" out the window. It's a damn zoo and the other hunters in the field are typically a-holes. It's sad because Utah is gorgeous and the people I meet when not hunting are great folks

Utah would be last on my list but that's just my opinion.

Geeze, Drummond thanks for the compliment. I used to talk with you when I was on MM : "woodruffhunter"
I guess I am one of the pricks up here since I spend a lot of time hunting public land.

I love living in Utah but prefer the far North East end. If you have the means, just hunt private land. I could easily live in Wyoming or Idaho, but the family life here is hard to beat. Having said that, I do like Wyoming and Idaho.

Some food for thought. After living in Suburban hell with loud neighbors and 3 am burn outs, we need a place in the country.

As for living in other states, we are locked in based on the type of profession I am in.

State capitols mostly.

Anyway I'll keep looking.

quote:

Originally posted by Jason P:

Geeze, Drummond thanks for the compliment. I used to talk with you when I was on MM : "woodruffhunter"
I guess I am one of the pricks up here since I spend a lot of time hunting public land.

I love living in Utah but prefer the far North East end. If you have the means, just hunt private land. I could easily live in Wyoming or Idaho, but the family life here is hard to beat. Having said that, I do like Wyoming and Idaho.

Jason, not everybody in Utah is a prick but there is a mentality in Utah that's unlike any place I've ever hunted. I have a lot of friends in Utah that feel the same way I do about it. You bring up MM, just look at the class of some of those clowns. There are some great guys over on MM but the idiots are just too much to take. Utah is similar. There are some great guys there but I have yet to hunt Utah where I haven't had multiple incidents that were just disgusting.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I do not recommend spending a big wad on a huge mortgage. Debt is so passé and puts you under the control of flakey bankers and others with criminal intent.

Ann, I don't know that I agree with you about the Midwest, but I do like your style.

Huh, seems like it takes two to dance and looks like some attract the riff-raff. If I'd of had the same experiences as Drum then I'd be negative too. But I haven't had those types of issues in Utah anymore than I have had them in Colorado, Wyoming, Kansas, Idaho. I hunt public land in Utah for 30+ days every year and have had 0 "a-holes" to deal with in the past 5 years, with very few poor experiences over the past 3 decades. I've had poor encounters in other states in that time frame, but I won't be so childish as to label any state's residents with demeaning names. Life is too short to have so much hate.

Just this week I spent the day hunting the high country of Utah with my muzzleloader and saw 0 hunters afield. Lots of deer and some decent bucks. Hiked out a different drainage and had a mile walk back to the truck on a dirt road. 3 different guys stopped to offer me rides. I politely declined, as I enjoy a good walk. Such jerks out here- sarcasm.

There is a problem in Utah when it comes to guides and inches. Money and ego tend to over throw common sense. Guys "compete" over animals. See the same thing on "trophy" hunts in other states. Those types of hunters are in the minority though. Guides can tend to be a little protective I guess, even guides from other states such as CO.....

BigWY-- I'm sure you have enough common sense to understand there are idiots in every state. They have busted many WY residents for shed hunting. Utah is a great place to live, especially if you have a family. Good luck wherever you end-up.

As far as Utah and inches and money I have noticed that the only place inches matter as much is in Texas.

Small pee pee big trophy syndrome.

Not sure how this correlates to shed hunting.

I think sheds should be left in the field. Everything with buck teeth in the woods eats them i.e. porkypines, marmots and even deer.

Shed hunting was brought up previously in the thread, I was just saying that residents from every state push the boundaries. Utah has its share for sure, just like any state I've ever hunted. Best to you in your search. Heber-Midway area would be worth the extra 10 minutes of driving if you do end up in Utah for a time. Quality of life includes a lot of components.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
As far as Utah and inches and money I have noticed that the only place inches matter as much is in Texas.

Small pee pee big trophy syndrome.

Good grief.

Seeing that your current location is Utah, maybe Drummond is on to something here!

For the record, I've never seen or heard of Texas resident hunters not welcoming non-resident hunters. Can't say the same for the Western states.

I know not every Texan is obsessed with South Texas whitetails, and they have to score this much, and be this wide, with this many drop points, and the ranch house has to have 300 channels of tv, and the blind has to be heated, and the entire hunt has to take place without the hunter ever leaving the heated blind.

I know not every texan is like that, it was a joke. But quite a few are!

Westerners are the worst about sharing the west with everyone else. You see public land with BLM or Forest Service tags on it and we see a very limited hunting resource.

It mostly has to do with our total number of game animals being much smaller than the number of people who want to hunt them.

Most western states have about 400,000 deer. Texas has something like 21,000,000 deer.

If Wyoming has 500,000 people and 400,000 deer and 100,000 hunters how many more hunters beyond those 100,000 can it legitimately hunt?

Texas has 21,000,000 deer and 20,000,000 people. You might have 3 million hunters, but probably closer to a million and half hunters.

A lot of eastern states have a similar problem, more deer available than hunters.

In the west we don't have that problem, we have states like Nevada and Arizona where it is very normal not to be able to hunt for several years in a row because you can't get a tag (for rifle hunters).

Western states have variety, not quantity. We are severely lacking on quantity.

quote:

Western states have variety, not quantity. We are severely lacking on quantity.

That's why I recommend the mid west. Affordable and plenty of deer and other game. Thanks to abundant agriculture too.

LOL, Jason, I hear ya, but I am done with long winters. I'm off to SW Missouri in three weeks and can't wait!

I grew up in SE Missouri, lived 10 years in VA before moving to Utah. Live just up the road from Heber/Midway that was mentioned. I have had my hunts ruined here and in WY, VA and MO. A-holes are everywhere you go. I have places in WY where I would never go hunting again, but I'm sure not ready to throw away the whole state because of it. Some great stuff out there.

I am in agreement with everyone who commented to invest your money and use the proceeds to go hunting in various places. I like the variety close to Utah with WY, ID and CO close by. The last several years, I have hunted in MO, TX, ID, UT and WY every year. CO and AK some years. Good times with great people and very few problems. Stay positive.

As a side note. I just got an email that Kentucky wants to raise the nonresident hunting rates from $190 for license and deer tag to $300 for same. The Elk tags are also looking at like increase there. I feel the low cost hunting days in Kentucky will be ending soon.

Kentucky very honestly in my research is the most bang for the buck.

I would put Olympia 2nd, as I could hunt Washington and Oregon fairly cheaply leaving good finances to hunt in BC and Alberta (plus its close).

North Dakota's rising cost of living and limited big game hunting opertunities make it a tough draw.

Salt Lake is going to be pay to play, but it's close to my home state and with the landowner validations getting a tag isn't a problem.

In the end it depends on the job, Kentucky and North Dakota have me doing a 2nd interview. No one else has callled back yet, so we'll see how it goes.

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

quote:

Originally posted by scojac:
It's been a while since I lived in Utah, but he's right. It seemed as though half the license plates in the mountains were from California. Most of them were real pricks. We called them City Savages.

The assholes I saw had Utah plates. Commonly referred to as "Utards" in other western states

Gee, thanks guys.. No stereotyping here ay?

Thats OK. From what I hear the term "public ground" is an oxymoron in Liberal Colorado.

California hunters plague all western states dont they? And I garantee you that Utah assholes have nothing over Nevada assholes. I go to Nevada 5 times a week and some of the attitudes there make me feel like Ive been beamed back to elementary school. I just shake my head and think grow TF up.. But I digress.

Ive been hunting PG here since the 60's and the problem here is overcrowded grounds. It used to be a great place to hunt in. Those days are gone. I went up into the Uintahs last year into an area that has public grounds for miles and miles, but the herd was pathetic. We have a managment problem here in General season areas. The bureaucrats downtown only want to maximize permits and dont do jack about improving the quality of the herd. Its been like that since the 70's. Its the same BS in a lot of places. I know guys from Colorado who go Elk hunting only to sit on the public grounds and glass the Elk that they cant touch on private property. Yee, haw.. As far as Im concerned the real assholes are the ones who get on horses just before the hunting season and flush animals from public grounds onto their private property. Gold digging bastards. Did someone mention the word "Sportsmanship"..

Limited entry is the way to go here, but it aint easy. I have been saving points for almost 10 years for the bookcliffs and may draw next year. Possibly the best thing about Utah hunting is that it is right next door to Wyoming and Idaho..

Easy with the steryotypes Drummond. Ive met plenty of assholes from Colorado, but I wouldnt assume that you are one of them.. Utah aint the greatest place to hunt anymore, but there are good people here.

BWW, In reguards to Hunting I selected ND from your list. Unless Im mistaken I think there are better deer opportunities than Utah (greater success rates) and your still close to Wyoming and Montana. Good luck with your decision process.

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

Its pathetic to see what those clowns pull on the winter range. It's a damn competition over there and it's a shame. Deer hunters, elk hunters, shed hunters, its all the same crowd

Winter range is abused in a few regions of Utah, too many people...

You might want to check with a poster named MOA Tactical. He asked similar questions---got a wealth of info.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Think a bit farther outside the box.

Buy a $200,000 house in a state that you enjoy 100% of the time.

Put in for the best areas in all the Western States, do not limit yourself to just hunting your own place. Hunt Canada, Idaho, buy a private land Elk tag in New Mexico, go to Africa.

Why spend $200,000 in land cost (+/-) to hunt one piece of property (probably small property at that)

Expand your horizons, hunt the whole damn world! Do you know how much hunting you can do with just the interest on a 7% note?

$14,000 is 7% of $200,000. $14,000 is a pretty healthy budget to do some DIY hunting or even 2-3 guided hunts per year.

Not to mention the extra money you are not spending on a $400,000 note, there is some extra income there to support a serious hunting habit.

Just my thoughts.

Wendell:

Reminds me of the "hunt" fund; my thinking exactly. My daughter grew up loving to play the flute; she has had two "flute funds."

Just going to throw it out there.. Wisconsin.
OTC deer, Turkey with draw on bear and wolf. Lots of small game and waterfowl. If it wasn't for the whooping cranes we would have a sandhill crane season as well.

It's not a free for all on choice, or we would be moving back to Wyoming, Montana or Alaska.

Thanks though Canadian.

Job is tied to certain locations.

Found out they hired local military spouses in Garmisch last night. Their theory is they don't have to pay to move someone twice, nor pay them housing allowances.