This was a good discussion. I enjoyed reading it and read every word including the links.

One of things that I personally believe fails to get mentioned is the fact that the POTUS is just another human being. That means he is fallible just like we all are.

There are no perfect human beings. We all have things we do that irritate others and vice versa. We all make mistakes on a daily basis. We all sin.

I personally try to remind myself daily that the person who is POTUS, like all people, is imperfect. He/she is going to do somethings I disagree with and some things that just irritate me.

We all get hung up on this or that about a 'person' who is incapable of being perfect.

Instead of doing just that, I try to take a look from 30,000 ft and see the trend or the general direction being led by a POTUS or candidate.

If I find a trend/direction that works for me 80% of the time...I go with it. I try to not sweat the humanly imperfections that are intrinsically built into all us -- too much.

When I take this approach...I see that I can never support a Democrat in the state of the Party of today. Therefore in the General Election...the only viable choice at this point in time is the Republican -- will consider 3rd party with viability.

Thus, I realized a long time ago that the most important elections are the Primaries. When you look at participation in Primary elections...they are dismal.

I am thoroughly convinced that I would have nothing in common with Donald J. Trump. I doubt we could find enough to talk about to kill the time it takes to drink a bottle of Lone Star. But when I looked from 30,000 ft he was walking in the direction my compass pointed. Even if he said something that offended me personally...I was unwilling to cut my nose off to spite my face and go somewhere I didn't want to be.

Men are men...we will never find a perfect one and no POTUS in US history is with out fault.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
This was a good discussion. I enjoyed reading it and read every word including the links.

One of things that I personally believe fails to get mentioned is the fact that the POTUS is just another human being. That means he is fallible just like we all are.

There are no perfect human beings. We all have things we do that irritate others and vice versa. We all make mistakes on a daily basis. We all sin.

I personally try to remind myself daily that the person who is POTUS, like all people, is imperfect. He/she is going to do somethings I disagree with and some things that just irritate me.

We all get hung up on this or that about a 'person' who is incapable of being perfect.

Instead of doing just that, I try to take a look from 30,000 ft and see the trend or the general direction being led by a POTUS or candidate.

If I find a trend/direction that works for me 80% of the time...I go with it. I try to not sweat the humanly imperfections that are intrinsically built into all us -- too much.

When I take this approach...I see that I can never support a Democrat in the state of the Party of today. Therefore in the General Election...the only viable choice at this point in time is the Republican -- will consider 3rd party with viability.

Thus, I realized a long time ago that the most important elections are the Primaries. When you look at participation in Primary elections...they are dismal.

I am thoroughly convinced that I would have nothing in common with Donald J. Trump. I doubt we could find enough to talk about to kill the time it takes to drink a bottle of Lone Star. But when I looked from 30,000 ft he was walking in the direction my compass pointed. Even if he said something that offended me personally...I was unwilling to cut my nose off to spite my face and go somewhere I didn't want to be.

Men are men...we will never find a perfect one and no POTUS in US history is with out fault.

I don’t think I could have said it better ledvm, and I agree with you completely.

What I don’t understand, is the fact that this forum is comprised mainly of persons who enjoy guns and hunting.

Any person/politician/party who supports gun ownership and hunting, has my support. And those who do not support these two pastimes, does not have my political support. It’s as simple, and black & white, as that.

As ledvm stated, I too could never see myself enjoying dinner with President Trump if the offer was made. But I don’t vote for politicians who I personally like or dislike. I vote for them if they are pro-gun and pro-hunting. Over the years, I’ve observed the Republican Party to be mostly pro-gun/pro-hunting and the Democratic Party to be mostly anti-gun/anti-hunting. Enough said.

Well said guys

Yes - well said..

There are many economic strategies and global influence strategies, etc. that can be debated and discussed - with multiple options and outcomes.

With guns and hunting it is simple: Pro or Anti. I never see any common ground anymore. I ALWAYS vote pro-gun and pro-hunting and even if a dem is pro-guns and hunting, the Dem party is not - that means if we value our gun and hunting rights we can NEVER vote democrat under any circumstance. The only thing that matters it which party controls congress.

Everything else is a sideshow…

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Powell:
Yes - well said..

There are many economic strategies and global influence strategies, etc. that can be debated and discussed - with multiple options and outcomes.

With guns and hunting it is simple: Pro or Anti. I never see any common ground anymore. I ALWAYS vote pro-gun and pro-hunting and even if a dem is pro-guns and hunting, the Dem party is not - that means if we value our gun and hunting rights we can NEVER vote democrat under any circumstance. The only thing that matters it which party controls congress.

Everything else is a sideshow…

I think you have hit on a very important point.

You have picked gun and hunting rights as your point, and you will never budge from it.

The other side might have picked something like abortion rights, and they won't budge on it either.

So you vote GOP and they vote democrats.

And the vicious circle continues.

How about you can have your gun and hunting rights, as you enjoy these and really do not bothers who don't.

And you leave those who want an abortions' to deal with it as it is their bodies too.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Powell:
Yes - well said..

There are many economic strategies and global influence strategies, etc. that can be debated and discussed - with multiple options and outcomes.

With guns and hunting it is simple: Pro or Anti. I never see any common ground anymore. I ALWAYS vote pro-gun and pro-hunting and even if a dem is pro-guns and hunting, the Dem party is not - that means if we value our gun and hunting rights we can NEVER vote democrat under any circumstance. The only thing that matters it which party controls congress.

Everything else is a sideshow…

I think you have hit on a very important point.

You have picked gun and hunting rights as your point, and you will never budge from it.

The other side might have picked something like abortion rights, and they won't budge on it either.

So you vote GOP and they vote democrats.

And the vicious circle continues.

How about you can have your gun and hunting rights, as you enjoy these and really do not bothers who don't.

And you leave those who want an abortions' to deal with it as it is their bodies too.

There is no way, none at all, that the left will back off of gun control and quit trying to stop hunting.

And it would make me much less of a man to condone the murder of innocent children. It is very easy to make a choice like that for men with no honor and for the short term........ I can't do it.

This is for Slim buttes and Stonecreek.

First of all Bashing our Constitution is typical of the Liberal control-monger mindset, among other America hating groups and Nations. The fact that it is NOT easy for the powers that be to cram mandate after mandate down the throats of "We the People" is a GOOD THING in spite of what the control mongering Commiecrats perpetually espouse on BSNBC. And as such the Constitution is still working as originally intended in spite of efforts to trash it. If you think that making it easy for Legislators to assert their will on the masses is a good thing, then I suggest you Google the Declaration of Independence and give yourself a refresher on the many reasons why the founding Fathers developed the first ever form of Government based on separation of powers in the first place. I submit that they were a hell of a lot smarter in that regard than you and they knew exactly what they were doing! All of the BS about Democracy, Democracy is nonsense that has been spoon fed to the masses for decades as a political ploy. Democracy as a stand alone form of Governing sucks, just ask the Greeks, and the Founders were wise to not even consider it. To quote John Adams, "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."

As for the power of the Presidency, historically America has functioned very well in spite of party line differences because most of the time there was a sense of unity as Countrymen and after an election compromise became the order of the day. And in such circumstances the President typically sets the agenda and it is the legislators job to hash things out and effect changes. But those who want to "Fundamentally remake America" have changed all of that. Yea, I am looking at you "Progressives". What happened during the previous administration was the polar opposite of fellowship among countrymen, precisely because of those who want to usurp more power.
More power in the hands of the few is the road to serfdom and Tyranny. It is human nature. Look at Nicaragua, China, and thanks to Biden Afghanistan AGAIN. The list goes on. Be careful what you wish for.

"There is no way, none at all, that the left will back off of gun control and quit trying to stop hunting."

And there is no the stupid religious zealots are going to back off allowing others to deal with their bodies as they wish.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
"There is no way, none at all, that the left will back off of gun control and quit trying to stop hunting."

And there is no the stupid religious zealots are going to back off allowing others to deal with their bodies as they wish.

Saeed, I believe a big part of the pro-abortion issue in the USA would fall away if there was no government funding for such a procedure. IIRC, the recent Federal budget had billions of dollars earmarked for Planned Parenthood. Without any government funding, there’d be a hell of a lot less to fight over. Abortion is a huge industry in America.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Powell:
Yes - well said..

There are many economic strategies and global influence strategies, etc. that can be debated and discussed - with multiple options and outcomes.

With guns and hunting it is simple: Pro or Anti. I never see any common ground anymore. I ALWAYS vote pro-gun and pro-hunting and even if a dem is pro-guns and hunting, the Dem party is not - that means if we value our gun and hunting rights we can NEVER vote democrat under any circumstance. The only thing that matters it which party controls congress.

Everything else is a sideshow…

I think you have hit on a very important point.

You have picked gun and hunting rights as your point, and you will never budge from it.

The other side might have picked something like abortion rights, and they won't budge on it either.

So you vote GOP and they vote democrats.

And the vicious circle continues.

How about you can have your gun and hunting rights, as you enjoy these and really do not bothers who don't.

And you leave those who want an abortions' to deal with it as it is their bodies too.

THAT…. My friend would be wonderful! I have no issue with the gays or lesbians or trans whatevers or climate change or any number of other liberal issues. I do not agree with any government involving themselves in the abortion issue…

All I ask in return for not attempting to enforce my beliefs on the liberals is the same in return.

But the liberals do not believe or practice the age old concept of “minding your own business”. They live too enforce their ideals and beliefs on everyone - by force if necessary.

I think most conservative are willing to budge - to have some give and take, but I promise you the liberals do not and will not ever budge..

Therefore the circle will continue - a stalemate…

Sad - but reality!

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
"There is no way, none at all, that the left will back off of gun control and quit trying to stop hunting."

And there is no the stupid religious zealots are going to back off allowing others to deal with their bodies as they wish.

Saeed, I believe a big part of the pro-abortion issue in the USA would fall away if there was no government funding for such a procedure. IIRC, the recent Federal budget had billions of dollars earmarked for Planned Parenthood. Without any government funding, there’d be a hell of a lot less to fight over. Abortion is a huge industry in America.

Too right. Definitely not a subject I like to insert myself into, but some of the crap that goes on behind the scenes with abortion that has been getting exposed should make anyone with a conscious cringe.

Kermit Gosnell murdering live babies for money. PP selling body parts from live babies for research. If everyone should just shut up and mind their own business about abortion, then the same should apply to murder. Because you cannot discuss abortion without considering exactly what is being "aborted".

Planned Parenthood has made a multi million dollar industry out of killing babies, and there is no way in hell I am going to be told to mind my own business when it is funded by my tax dollars. Remove that funding and we can talk about it, but things have slid way too far down that slippery slope to just dismiss it. Some of the disgusting behavior that has become associated with abortion is right out of the movie Apocalypto. Maybe even worse. That is not a culture that I find acceptable.

quote:

All I ask in return for not attempting to enforce my beliefs on the liberals is the same in return.

But the liberals do not believe or practice the age old concept of “minding your own business”. They live too enforce their ideals and beliefs on everyone - by force if necessary.

I think most conservative are willing to budge - to have some give and take, but I promise you the liberals do not and will not ever budge..

First I must say that most people do not know the definition of "liberal." If one does they would understand it is basically "minding your own business."

But knowing what most members of this forum define as "conservatives" or "liberals" read the following paragraph.

Every place in the above quote replace conservative and liberal. I imagine on some predominantly liberal forum somewhere on the interweb they are all nodding in agreement enthusiastically.

I find I am conservative about many issues and liberal about many issues. I imagine there are a lot of people just like me, heck you might even feel that way sometimes.

So I feel strongly that the right to bare arms and the right abort a pregnancy are not even up for debate by the government. Someone mentioned the Declaration of Independence. Could an unintended pregnancy, for what ever reason get in the way or a US citizens unalienable Rights?

Rights are rights, or they are not.

And I know one is in the constitution and one is in the Dec. of Independence, but life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a how I want to live my life and I want you to live your life.

Oh and I won't argue with a bunch of MEN who will never be pregnant, about abortion.

quote:

Originally posted by slim buttes:
Could an unintended pregnancy, for what ever reason get in the way or a US citizens unalienable Rights?

If you mean the abortion of an "unintended" pregnancy, yes. Inalienable rights apply to human lives do they not? Like I said, how can you discuss abortion without addressing exactly WHAT is being aborted? Ironically though a lot of Liberals place more value on a fish or a dog than a human life.

quote:

Originally posted by justanotherhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Thank you Saeed, for the banner. It is the same as commemorating the bombing of Pearl Harbor or other historical attacks on American democracy. Some want to pretend otherwise simply because it serves their short term political interests. But regardless of a person's views on any given policy issue, we should all agree that an attempt to overthrow the foundations of electoral democracy is a traitorous action by the true enemies of freedom and human rights.

Couldn't have said it better myself

+2

An unarmed "insurrection".....good Lord you folks are pathetic. It was a riot and nothing more.....and was 100% due to the left fomenting anarchy and lawlessness in the year leading up to it. Line up to be slaughtered like the good sheep you all are if you think that was an insurrection.

quote:

Originally posted by slim buttes:
Oh and I won't argue with a bunch of MEN who will never be pregnant, about abortion.

What is to argue??? Murder is murder....even if the baby cannot talk or fight back.

Take away tax payer funding so a person has to pay for it themselves it will drop in a hurry. It should never be used as a form of birth control.

Bull Sprig, the rioters were just one part of one of the attack on the constitution. The President himself was trying to overturn the will of the voters.

Trump lost a free and fair election. They admit it. Trump could have followed the rules and run again in 2024 and make his case to the voters. He chose to commit a crime. Now he can spend his time and his DONOR’S money on his layers.

Trumps court filings were never about fraud, Rudy and Trump’s other lawyers said their case was not about fraud when the judge asked them “why are we here? Are you claiming fraud?” Answer every time “no”

If you don’t like what’s going on in government, run for office, at least vote, but don’t whine when your candidate loses. Just barely under half of Americans vote for the losing candidate for President almost every time.

Think about this, in 2016 Trump won the Presidency while getting 3 million less votes. Did Clinton throw a fit and call foul? No. Because it’s just the way the rules are, and the rules apply to everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by Bull Sprig:
An unarmed "insurrection".....good Lord you folks are pathetic. It was a riot and nothing more.....and was 100% due to the left fomenting anarchy and lawlessness in the year leading up to it. Line up to be slaughtered like the good sheep you all are if you think that was an insurrection.

Encouraged by a pathetic, career criminal from the White House!

What is very informative to me about all these comments is where some of the AR members heads are at.

Huh, some interesting banter by both sides. Some folks saying Jan 6th was just a riot/gathering with no weapons (with is untrue).
Others saying people should let each other be as they are, while their own country outlaws abortion and same sex relationships.
Religious zealots one one hand, but oppressive religious systems on the other.
Some claiming there was only one death on Jan 6th.
Such hypocrisy from both sides. One could even go as far as calling them lies.
The internet sure is a fun place to be entertained....

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Bull Sprig:
An unarmed "insurrection".....good Lord you folks are pathetic. It was a riot and nothing more.....and was 100% due to the left fomenting anarchy and lawlessness in the year leading up to it. Line up to be slaughtered like the good sheep you all are if you think that was an insurrection.

Encouraged by a pathetic, career criminal from the White House!

Career criminal? I guess if you say something enough times you and other sheep eventually believe it.

Your first mistake was believing he's any more of a criminal than the rest of the career politicians who've amassed vast wealth while "serving the public."

I pray Trump doesn't run in 24. That said.....ANY republican is better than the demented career liar in power now. You Trump haters ignore the myriad lies and flip flopping on issues Biden has made a habit for his entire life.

Nobody cares about what happened jan.6th. It was just a riot like any other riot including the prolonged riot at the Portland federal court house. Yes, Trump is running in 2024. Only an idiot would not want him too. He got a crowd of 85,000 people at his Conroe, Texas rally this weekend. The people have spoke and they want him back, period!!! Russia and China would not be doing what they are doing if he were still president. What is so hard to understand about that?

quote:

Originally posted by rolank:
Nobody cares about what happened jan.6th. It was just a riot like any other riot including the prolonged riot at the Portland federal court house. Yes, Trump is running in 2024. Only an idiot would not want him too. He got a crowd of 85,000 people at his Conroe, Texas rally this weekend. The people have spoke and they want him back, period!!! Russia and China would not be doing what they are doing if he were still president. What is so hard to understand about that?

The hard part to understand is how can anyone support a career criminal!

Bankrupt many times!

A crook by nature!

We very well may need a conservative replacement, but in no way can it be this Moran. As soon as he goes off script his thug back round immediately surfaces. Well said Saeed

Bankruptcy is not a crime Saeed. Why is it that no one can find anything criminal or indictment worthy on the man Trump? stevet50, look at everything the man did in office and tell me which one makes him a moron? Sir, the moron is sitting in the white house right now; please tell me what good has he done as president? Look at the polls, the polls don't lie, right? The capital building has had bombs set off in it twice I believe, so why don't they get the same treatment?

Never said that this guy is the answer by any stretch, but it certainly isn't Trump. The best thing he did in office was to enrich himself and his kids. And as far as any bombs are concerned, haven't heard of any, there was in the news that was supposedly headed for Biden that they were able to intercept.

Stevet50, the bombs were blown up many years ago not now. You know how to look it up better than I but I remember it as I am in my 70's.

quote:

The best thing he did in office was to enrich himself and his kids.

I think you meant Hunter and Creep Joe 0biden, right?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


The hard part to understand is how can anyone support a career criminal!

Bankrupt many times!

A crook by nature!

I can't stand his personality but your post is a steaming pile of horseshit.

quote:

Originally posted by Bull Sprig:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


The hard part to understand is how can anyone support a career criminal!

Bankrupt many times!

A crook by nature!

I can't stand his personality but your post is a steaming pile of horseshit.

Not half as bad as what comes out of Trump's mouth1

Pure PIGS SHIT1

That crook will make any third world dictator proud!

Like I have said many times I don't believe that our current guy is the answer either, but when you look at the last few elections as a whole and really look at all candidates on either side we should be embarrassed as a country that this is all we have to offer!!!

Also Aspen, in regards to enriching yourself simply because you hold the office is supposed to be illegal. When it comes to Trump he set a new unreachable standard. He has done it so may times its very hard to keep up, you can remember it for a while until the next even more ridiculous thing comes up, its like drinking from a fire hose!! He felt and still feels like if you do the silent things out loud then that makes them right or lawful!!!
Just a few I can remember-----his constant soliciting of foreign leaders to stay at his Trump Hotel in DC, saying out loud that the G-7 should be held at his Golf course at Doral, sending our British ambassador to convince the British government to switch the British Open to his course there, Pence and all his secret service staying at Trumps property in Ireland, but I'm sure he gave them all a huge discount right, probably double (better make it while you can) his constant trips he took to Maralago with all secret service in tow (est. 3 million per trip)instead of going to Camp David like all other presidents that we already pay for!!! Ivanka's sudden contract for Chinese clothing after a trip there as a US government official representative. Really the daughter as a member of the US government advisory board to the president?? They talk about Hunter Biden not bringing any expertise to the table? That's just a few I can remember.

Evidently Saeed believed Biden when he swore on the campaign trail he knew nothing about his son being a crackhead discharged from the Naval reserves for drug use in 2016, impregnating a stripper while dating his brother's widow or being hired to the board of a Ukraine gas company to buy access to daddy VP and filtering some of the 80k per month to the "big guy".

Kudos Saeed on your willing suspension of disbelief borne out of hatred for Trump.

quote:

Originally posted by Bull Sprig:
Evidently Saeed believed Biden when he swore on the campaign trail he knew nothing about his son being a crackhead discharged from the Naval reserves for drug use in 2016, impregnating a stripper while dating his brother's widow or being hired to the board of a Ukraine gas company to buy access to daddy VP and filtering some of the 80k per month to the "big guy".

Kudos Saeed on your willing suspension of disbelief borne out of hatred for Trump.

You must be color blind!

As far as I am concerned, not a single one of your greedy, stupid, criminal rulers are worth a second look!

I don't see much difference between Trump or Biden.

Pelosi or Cheney and AOC1

A bunch of self serving crooks.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Bull Sprig:
Evidently Saeed believed Biden when he swore on the campaign trail he knew nothing about his son being a crackhead discharged from the Naval reserves for drug use in 2016, impregnating a stripper while dating his brother's widow or being hired to the board of a Ukraine gas company to buy access to daddy VP and filtering some of the 80k per month to the "big guy".

Kudos Saeed on your willing suspension of disbelief borne out of hatred for Trump.

You must be color blind!

As far as I am concerned, not a single one of your greedy, stupid, criminal rulers are worth a second look!

I don't see much difference between Trump or Biden.

Pelosi or Cheney and AOC1

A bunch of self serving crooks.

Now you're talking! I agree that the vast majority of them on both sides of the aisle are liars and crooks that enrich themselves via lobbyists and every other trick in the book.

Now Biden oks $30 million for "safer smoking kits" that include crack pipes. You can't make this up! The laughing stock of the world this demented fool is.