quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Saeed-

Trump never had nor will he ever have my support. He's a thief and a liar and a pathetic excuse for a human being. I despised him long before he ever entered the political arena for the fact that he continually ripped off small businesses by contracting with them and then refusing to pay. How people can't see through his con-man ways is beyond me. He belongs behind bars.

President Trump’s continued support is about the ends justifying the means. President Trump, at first as a publicity stunt for self promotion then as a means of maintaining power, went to the heart of concerns for low income, low educated voters both black (Federal mandatory sentences) and white (migrants and policies that have set up the decay of US Manufacturing) among other things.

I strongly disagreed with President Trump’s international policy (except China which I considered more domestic). I agree on the whole with his domestic policy. Much more than the Progressives.

Folks strongly were energized by his his bombastic rhetoric. After years of loosing not just political theory, President Trump supporters saw the msn who fought the government establishment they no longer trusted before President Trump arrived. President Trump, believing in nothing himself, was the lion heart where folks like Romney had been milk toast and just a reflection of the same. Why vote for Romney? He is just like President Obama. In policy, Romney and President Obama governed very similar. President Trump just solidified and gave personification to their emotions.

Then President Trump was taken away from them by an election. Defeat, acceptance, and self modification to move to where more voters are is not possible because these are central, core beliefs society’s majority rejects. I feel it also. President Trump being their lion who brought those concerns and laid them on the alter of Government through sheer verbal force now must be excused, justified, and support maintained.

The Party did not vote on a Platform the year President Trump was nominated by the Republican Party.

In conclusion, many see President Trump as a insert profanity. However, he is their insert profanity who fought where others did not even try.

Now, add the above to Hilary Clinton’s poor campaign, natural dislikability, and her perceived wrong doing (by someone no one liked) and President Trump wins.

Those Hilary factors were gone, Progressives highly motivated, and many educated and suburban had enough of President Trump the man and his policy of chaos. Thst is how you get a guy that had successfully been marketed as everyone’s Uncle over.

In reiteration, many see President Trump as a insert profanity. However, he is their insert profanity who fought where others did not even try.

While I voted for Trump, I disliked him. I preferred him over the alternative.

Many of his policies I totally agreed with . Other had me shaking my head . On and overall basis, I’d be refer him over the current idiot.

I am pretty tight with a well connected lobbyist in DC. He met with Trump often . Had lunch with Trump often . We had a discussion of Trump one day . He said when they had private lunches Trump was a very nice , normal guy. As soon as they would leave the privacy and the press was there , it was like someone flipped a switch. His behavior totally changed. He could not help himself .

I found a lot of his behavior quite amusing . The insiders could not handle it. Some of his behavior made no sense to me.

Democrats will say or do anything to remain in power. At any point in our history wherein the GOP had control it was chaos by virtue of the left acting like petulant children. Trump is a blowhard but stands, mostly, for what's in the country's best interest. I too voted for him holding my nose.

The inner cities which have been governed by democrats and blacks for the last 6 decades are worse than ever and anarchy is setting in while the elitists and idealists watch from safety. Dubai is a loooooong way from cities which now have DAs that have made armed robbery a misdemeanor. I pray that the good people of this country have the wherewithal to crush these fools.

Jan. 6 was the culmination of over a year of the left fomenting anarchy across the nation and attacking Trump with a new, utterly baseless accusation every week. The pearl clutchers worldwide should keep their mouths shut about things they don't understand. The moral fabric of this country is being attacked from within by so-called progressives that are abject hypocrites. For the life of me I can't figure out how liberals seem to have a "cloak of invincibility" with zero repercussions for their behavior.

I love when idiots say "Trump lied." Breaking news: every single politician lies. That's what politics is and has always been!

Great discussion. Seems odd to me. The "Trumpkins" (I guess I'm one), Make calm rational, well reasoned arguments. The Never Trumpers and the Democrats make, wild, baseless emotional outbursts.

Trump faced investigation after investigation by political hacks, just looking for a crime.

Where crimes actually exist, say the HRC example, there are never indictments, never follow up. Andrew Cuomo being completely exonerated is another example.

Hunter Biden is as corrupt as is humanly possible, on tape with hookers doing blow and discussing his crimes, yet nothing.

The Trump children are now being subpoenaed for yet another investigation looking for a crime.

Biden's obvious ties to Ukraine, China etc, giving Putin his way, the media turns a blind eye. A terrible exit in Afghanistan, nothing. A completely lawless and open southern border, crickets.

Trump said Pussy...

I am completely on the same page as Larry. I liked his America First policies. His character is certainly lacking. Personally, I believe I'd dislike him. But that's not the metric on how we judge a Presidents performance.

I have a disabled son. When Trump mocked the disabilities of that reporter, I saw all I needed to see.

I think there are many of us that voted for Trump that really did not like him but appreciated most of his policies. I've been holding my nose while I vote for many years. I just wish he could have kept his mouth shut..

I pay no interest to comments made by foreigners about our political system or challenges. Many of their countries would not even exist today if it wasn't for the US Military but their younger generations have forgotten that.. As a Gulf War and Afghanistan vet that also served in Europe - if it had been up to me the US would have simply sat back and watched it all happen - easier to wait till all the little guys are done beating each other up and then we could decide what to do with what's left :-)

Isolationist? maybe somewhat but more like I prefer to mind my own business :-) If we had stayed out of the Middle East and left them to fight it out amongst themselves, 9/11 probably would have never happened..

No offense Saeed but if we have stayed home in 1990 there is a reasonable chance that by now you'd have big portraits of Saddam all over your little country or be answering to the Iranians... :-)

When Trump first came into office he was a political infant. I mean the man used to send money to the Clinton campaign for crying out loud. He had a VERY steep learning curve. And to me his behavior often times was that of a spoiled rotten teenager, not a statesman. BUT, man oh man did he ever stir up things in DC! At this point in time the only policy of his that I REALLY disliked was the spending, again he seems to remain clueless to this day in that regard. Having said all of that, I LOVE the way he exposed (albiet clumsily) the rampant, run away corruption in our government. RINO's galore, even on the State level. His policies about America being screwed over by other Nations, his border policy, his America first economic policies, opening up our oil production. Best we have had since Reagan in so many ways. I do prefer Ted Cruz, but I would vote for Trump again in a hearttbeat.

I wonder how the leftist lemings in this thread feel about current inflation, gas prices, Immigration issues and ammo shortages??

Surely not suggesting that our current guy is the answer by any stretch, but how anyone could get behind someone to hold the highest office in the world who personally bankrupt himself four times all with daddy's money to start with, raises all kinds of questions. How is it OK for him to be in charge of our money when he had no idea how to handle his own. There was no one more surprised when he got elected than Trump himself, but once he got there the entire term was only about how to enrich himself. Can't imagine how it must have looked around the world when we knowingly elected such a buffoon...

quote:

Originally posted by stevet50:
Surely not suggesting that our current guy is the answer by any stretch, but how anyone could get behind someone to hold the highest office in the world who personally bankrupt himself four times all with daddy's money to start with, raises all kinds of questions. How is it OK for him to be in charge of our money when he had no idea how to handle his own. There was no one more surprised when he got elected than Trump himself, but once he got there the entire term was only about how to enrich himself. Can't imagine how it must have looked around the world when we knowingly elected such a buffoon...

I would bet my next paycheck that he has a hell of a lot more money than you. Even before he got into office.

quote:

Originally posted by stevet50:
Surely not suggesting that our current guy is the answer by any stretch, but how anyone could get behind someone to hold the highest office in the world who personally bankrupt himself four times all with daddy's money to start with, raises all kinds of questions. How is it OK for him to be in charge of our money when he had no idea how to handle his own. There was no one more surprised when he got elected than Trump himself, but once he got there the entire term was only about how to enrich himself. Can't imagine how it must have looked around the world when we knowingly elected such a buffoon...

Trump never personally filed bankruptcy. A few of his companies did.

Apparently to be a “real” American one must ignore verifiable facts, ignore actual confessions of under mining the votes of the citizens by the Drumpf and WH staff, be a sore loser, and most importantly be really loud and obnoxious while complaining about being censored.

A couple thousand delusional Cult 45 members think they can overturn the will of 330 million citizens. That’s how fucking delusional are, if they were really correct and they had verifiable evidence to back them up; wouldn’t you have been there? If there were verifiable facts that the election was stolen- I would have been there.

BUT there wasn’t and these poor delusional motherfuckers are taking the fall. Just the way Drumpf likes it.

Perhaps next time the two people running for President should have to have ideas to make our great nation even better. What was Drumpf’s idea, “it’s THERE fault!” That message appeals to many.

And the beauty of the USA is if we don’t like our elected officials, we vote them out.

“But Hunter and Hillary?”

“I don’t know anyone who voted for Biden.”

“Did Biden have boat parades?”

In conclusion, freedom isn’t for everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by slim buttes:
Apparently to be a “real” American one must ignore verifiable facts, ignore actual confessions of under mining the votes of the citizens by the Drumpf and WH staff, be a sore loser, and most importantly be really loud and obnoxious while complaining about being censored.

A couple thousand delusional Cult 45 members think they can overturn the will of 330 million citizens. That’s how fucking delusional are, if they were really correct and they had verifiable evidence to back them up; wouldn’t you have been there? If there were verifiable facts that the election was stolen- I would have been there.

BUT there wasn’t and these poor delusional motherfuckers are taking the fall. Just the way Drumpf likes it.

Perhaps next time the two people running for President should have to have ideas to make our great nation even better. What was Drumpf’s idea, “it’s THERE fault!” That message appeals to many.

And the beauty of the USA is if we don’t like our elected officials, we vote them out.

“But Hunter and Hillary?”

“I don’t know anyone who voted for Biden.”

“Did Biden have boat parades?”

In conclusion, freedom isn’t for everyone.

You guys in this thread, read my post. Then Juxtapose this comment with mine. I rest my case.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by slim buttes:
Apparently to be a “real” American one must ignore verifiable facts, ignore actual confessions of under mining the votes of the citizens by the Drumpf and WH staff, be a sore loser, and most importantly be really loud and obnoxious while complaining about being censored.

A couple thousand delusional Cult 45 members think they can overturn the will of 330 million citizens. That’s how fucking delusional are, if they were really correct and they had verifiable evidence to back them up; wouldn’t you have been there? If there were verifiable facts that the election was stolen- I would have been there.

BUT there wasn’t and these poor delusional motherfuckers are taking the fall. Just the way Drumpf likes it.

Perhaps next time the two people running for President should have to have ideas to make our great nation even better. What was Drumpf’s idea, “it’s THERE fault!” That message appeals to many.

And the beauty of the USA is if we don’t like our elected officials, we vote them out.

“But Hunter and Hillary?”

“I don’t know anyone who voted for Biden.”

“Did Biden have boat parades?”

In conclusion, freedom isn’t for everyone.

You guys in this thread, read my post. Then Juxtapose this comment with mine. I rest my case.

Precisely Steve...

Name calling, constant use of foul language, minimal grasp of the english lexicon - all the classic symptoms....

Hey Steve

“You guys in this thread, read my post. Then Juxtapose this comment with mine. I rest my case.”

Take your own advice. See what you come up with.

Btw I naming the people who were misguided by their media sources and spiritual leaders, “delusional” is not name calling. What do you call people who believe, see, and hear that are not true and can be proven untrue?

We get to vote this year, please participate if you are eligible.

Here’s the last verifiable FACT I will type on this topic, Biden received more votes than Drumpf. Drumpf is the loser, and a poor loser at that.

If you voted for biden then you voted for someone who when asked about his son said he had no idea about anything his son is involved in. And you still voted for him.....and call Trump a liar. Trump is a loudmouthed blowhard but he was the anti-career politician which this country needs more of. Funny but if it weren't for the ultimate wet dream of the left in 2020 of covid and the black bullshit we wouldn't even need to talk about this demented puppet at all.

This just seems appropriate here:

quote:

Originally posted by slim buttes:
Hey Steve

“You guys in this thread, read my post. Then Juxtapose this comment with mine. I rest my case.”

Take your own advice. See what you come up with.

Btw I naming the people who were misguided by their media sources and spiritual leaders, “delusional” is not name calling. What do you call people who believe, see, and hear that are not true and can be proven untrue?

We get to vote this year, please participate if you are eligible.

Here’s the last verifiable FACT I will type on this topic, Biden received more votes than Drumpf. Drumpf is the loser, and a poor loser at that.

Cult, delusional, motherfuckers...take your pick.

I'll add a bit of conspiracy theory to this.

Why is it the Democrats don't want full investigations into Wuhan lab, and the origins of Covid? Hmmmm?

What possible motive would or could they have to stop it? Hell, we're approaching 1 million souls lost.

Apply Occum's Razor on this. My first and most guttural reaction is, they are obviously hiding something. But what?

Pontificate...apply logic. there is none.

They are all crooked when they get to that level, regardless of party affiliation. Trump won for the same reason Obama won for the first time, he was not an establishment candidate.

I voted for him twice because I didn't like the alternatives, but he cost himself the election with his mouth. The "Suburban Soccer Mom" vote was on the bubble and when he opened his mouth he lost those votes.

We have an information problem in this country....there's too much of it, it gets edited for sound bites, and it travels so fast it gets spread without proper fact checking before its on TV.

When I see people in other countries celebrating the results of our election, I know we elected the wrong person.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Hipshoot:
Saeed,
America/Americans aren't so bad! We have done more in roughly 225 years what Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, South America and Antartica couldn't do in THOUSANDS OF YEARS !!!


Hip

Yes.

Including more damage!

More senseless wars.

More killing innocents.

More creating of terrorist organizations.

You talking about the Arabs now?

Hip

quote:

Originally posted by Hipshoot:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Hipshoot:
Saeed,
America/Americans aren't so bad! We have done more in roughly 225 years what Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, South America and Antartica couldn't do in THOUSANDS OF YEARS !!!


Hip

Yes.

Including more damage!

More senseless wars.

More killing innocents.

More creating of terrorist organizations.

You talking about the Arabs now?

Hip

Might take the Arabs, or anyone else, generations and generations to beat you lot.

Still have caught up with the Spaniards and their ethnic cleansing in South America, but still, given your recent history, you are well on the way to catching up with them.

Mind you, now that you have re-directed your hate to each other, I fear the bloody Chinks will pick up the ball in trying to control the world!

Better start learning Chinese.

You depend on them economically now, won't be long before they control you by other means!

Keep your heads stuck up Trump's arse, or Commie Kamala, you will guarantee the future of your next generations!

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Hey, Chuckie. Facts don't lie. But Trumpie does and in fact told more lies while in office than any other president in the nation's history.

BTW the way, how did Jade Helm turn out for you,eh? Still promoting that conspiracy crap?????

Bobbie, you must be watching CNN. By the way, you said Trump screwed a lot small business men. Are you speaking from experience?

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Powell:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by slim buttes:
Apparently to be a “real” American one must ignore verifiable facts, ignore actual confessions of under mining the votes of the citizens by the Drumpf and WH staff, be a sore loser, and most importantly be really loud and obnoxious while complaining about being censored.

A couple thousand delusional Cult 45 members think they can overturn the will of 330 million citizens. That’s how fucking delusional are, if they were really correct and they had verifiable evidence to back them up; wouldn’t you have been there? If there were verifiable facts that the election was stolen- I would have been there.

BUT there wasn’t and these poor delusional motherfuckers are taking the fall. Just the way Drumpf likes it.

Perhaps next time the two people running for President should have to have ideas to make our great nation even better. What was Drumpf’s idea, “it’s THERE fault!” That message appeals to many.

And the beauty of the USA is if we don’t like our elected officials, we vote them out.

“But Hunter and Hillary?”

“I don’t know anyone who voted for Biden.”

“Did Biden have boat parades?”

In conclusion, freedom isn’t for everyone.

You guys in this thread, read my post. Then Juxtapose this comment with mine. I rest my case.

Precisely Steve...

Name calling, constant use of foul language, minimal grasp of the english lexicon - all the classic symptoms....

That's what all the leftists resort to when they have no logical argument.......or they call you a racist....

quote:

Originally posted by Hipshoot:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Hipshoot:
Saeed,
America/Americans aren't so bad! We have done more in roughly 225 years what Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, South America and Antartica couldn't do in THOUSANDS OF YEARS !!!


Hip

Yes.

Including more damage!

More senseless wars.

More killing innocents.

More creating of terrorist organizations.

You talking about the Arabs now?

Hip

Outstanding!

Got a message.

"Saeed, why don't you tell everyone to keep politics in the PF?"

I won't.

It is precisely those complaining about it are the cause of it!

MAGA Zombies!

I will lead my expression with my voting history.

I voted for Trump in 2016

Why? Because I didn't want Hillary Clinton as POTUS

I voted for Trump in 2020

Why? Because I didn't want Joe Biden as POTUS

While I don't approve of the breach of the Capitol I think it's laughable that anyone thinks that it was in any way an attempt on a coup.

An ugly protest turned into a riot yes....

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I will lead my expression with my voting history.

I voted for Trump in 2016

Why? Because I didn't want Hillary Clinton as POTUS

I voted for Trump in 2020

Why? Because I didn't want Joe Biden as POTUS

While I don't approve of the breach of the Capitol I think it's laughable that anyone thinks that it was in any way an attempt on a coup.

An ugly protest turned into a riot yes....

Ted,

I find what you say is very sad.

Picking the lesser of two evils.

How wonderful if it wasn’t this way.

And your choice as a voter is to vote for the BETTER of two good candidates!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I will lead my expression with my voting history.

I voted for Trump in 2016

Why? Because I didn't want Hillary Clinton as POTUS

I voted for Trump in 2020

Why? Because I didn't want Joe Biden as POTUS

While I don't approve of the breach of the Capitol I think it's laughable that anyone thinks that it was in any way an attempt on a coup.

An ugly protest turned into a riot yes....

Ted,

I find what you say is very sad.

Picking the lesser of two evils.

How wonderful if it wasn’t this way.

And your choice as a voter is to vote for the BETTER of two good candidates!

Saeed I’m curious when UAE has their elections?

quote:

Originally posted by chuckmaxman:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I will lead my expression with my voting history.

I voted for Trump in 2016

Why? Because I didn't want Hillary Clinton as POTUS

I voted for Trump in 2020

Why? Because I didn't want Joe Biden as POTUS

While I don't approve of the breach of the Capitol I think it's laughable that anyone thinks that it was in any way an attempt on a coup.

An ugly protest turned into a riot yes....

Ted,

I find what you say is very sad.

Picking the lesser of two evils.

How wonderful if it wasn’t this way.

And your choice as a voter is to vote for the BETTER of two good candidates!

Saeed I’m curious when UAE has their elections?

I hope we never have, if your example is anything to go by!

Set an example for us to follow!

Does not look very likely in the next few generations if Trump’s GOP and AOC’s democrats have anything to say about it!

quote:

I hope we never have, if your example is anything to go by!

Monarchs only have to give their subjects one choice. Only that, of life or death.

quote:

Originally posted by DocEd:

quote:

I hope we never have, if your example is anything to go by!

Monarchs only have to give their subjects one choice. Only that, of life or death.

What a load of bullshit!

Whoever is in charge, they do as they please, regardless of the system!

Our at least look after our interests.

Yours are a bunch of idiots out to glorify themselves!

One half of you lot are slaves of one political party, and the other half are slaves for the other.

Non stop elections.

Non stop campaigning.

Non stop whoring.

And the people are suffering!

Frankly, Joe Blogs in the streets is too stupid to decide!

Your voting system proves it!

It is a FACT that I said I was done with this topic, and I know I will change no ones opinion.

Ted, the rioters were cover for the attempted stopping of the peaceful transition of power by Drumpf and his Green Bay Sweepers. The people had already spoken, Drumpf can't just decide I am going to do everything I can to stay in power-- no matter what. Again, Trump lost a free and fair election. Oh Ted, who summoned these gullible people come to DC and then march on the capital, "...and I'm going with you."

If Drumpf was so damn sure why didn't he LEAD the march? He's not a leader for one thing.

And I didn't vote for Trump or Hillary in '16. I didn't vote for Trump or Biden in '20, and I vote every election. We have had bad choices for too long, ultimately it is the voters fault.

Saeed defending a monarchy to this group, have fun with that. Unfortunately there aren't enough "Philosopher Kings".

I think that there is some evidence that having intelligent leaders surrounded and counseled by knowledge people is a good way to govern.

These people whether they are a King, a President, a "Founding Father", a or any other person you look up to or see as some shining exemplar, well they are just as human as you or me. And like any human, we're complicated.

Saeed thank you for hosting this site. I have learned a great deal about rifles and reloading, and according to my wife bought too many more rifles on this site.

Full disclosure If I have to live in a monarchy, I have to be the King. That's why I have to live in a Democracy.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I will lead my expression with my voting history.

I voted for Trump in 2016

Why? Because I didn't want Hillary Clinton as POTUS

I voted for Trump in 2020

Why? Because I didn't want Joe Biden as POTUS

While I don't approve of the breach of the Capitol I think it's laughable that anyone thinks that it was in any way an attempt on a coup.

An ugly protest turned into a riot yes....

Ted,

I find what you say is very sad.

Picking the lesser of two evils.

How wonderful if it wasn’t this way.

And your choice as a voter is to vote for the BETTER of two good candidates!

I did indeed vote for the best of the two candidates in 16 and 20

Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden wouldn't manage our local grocery store if I had any say in it.

What is really sad are the people we have to pick from in any election cycle on either side. Really, as a country this is all we can produce, then we all argue about who is the lesser of two evils! In 2016 the country like every other time was tired of the status quo, thats why Bernie got so many votes on the far left and why Trump got so many on the far right, people were and are just sick of business as usual in Washington. If you have a GREAT idea on one side and I know its a good idea or bill, you know I can't vote for it, not because its bad in any way just simply because it would not be good for me politically. What a way to run a country with absolutely no compromise from either side.. Westrnhuntr--That wouldn't be much of a feat for the Trumpster to have more money than me or you, but if the truth be told I probably know plenty that do including many on this sight. The difference is you would never know it. From life experience, those pompous, grandstanding, showboats that want to go out of their way to stick things in your face usually are desperately trying to make up for their own shortcomings, which he has plenty of. Then you say that he had all this money EVEN BEFORE he got into office, is that to say that you believe like many others that he has made even a bigger fortune since he was elected.. He probably got himself out of hock on the backs of all the people who put him there. Then there is his Washington Hotel, Marilago, the attempt to get the G-7 at Doral, on and on and on.. I thought there were laws against enriching yourself just from holding the office...

While comedians are not who I would normally pay attention to when it comes to politics, Chris Rock once said something very wise. He said :” I hate Democrats. I hate Republicans. How can you know how you are going to vote when you don’t even know what you are voting on.”

Think about it. Who the hell would want to be president? They have to put up with so much shit. They don’t make much money . Why? Purely ego. This is why we can not get good candidates.

No surprise there Larry, anyone we may really need or want, would have to go backwards to take it..

Therefore we continue to get glorified city council people, school board members, rotary members state and local reps, these types of people that just keep graduating to the next level. That's not to say that there are not good ones of all of those, but they shouldn't be running a country. We need some CEO of a company who is accountable for a bottom line and knows how to get there, and that certainly wasn't Trump or this current guy???

quote:

Think about it. Who the hell would want to be president? They have to put up with so much shit. They don’t make much money . Why? Purely ego. This is why we can not get good candidates.

Believe it or not, you give up almost everyday freedoms being president as well, you give them up for life.....


.

Maybe the problem is there is the idea that one person can “fix” it. The legislative branch has let the executive get too powerful. Google the last time war was declared by the USA, l’ll save you some time, WW2.

Our Senators and Representatives in the House make it seem like the President runs the government. Make Congress do their job or vote them out.

The USA is not a business so get that fallacy out of your head. ENRON had a hell of a CEO—until they didn’t.

The saddest part is we've become so divided that neither side is interested in anything the other says. I blame that squarely on these lunatic progressives who for whatever reason are the darlings of the media.

If we don't figure out how to return to relative moderate grounds we're doomed for civil war....and if that's what it takes so be it. The left is hellbent on destruction of this country.

quote:

Originally posted by slim buttes:
Maybe the problem is there is the idea that one person can “fix” it. The legislative branch has let the executive get too powerful. Google the last time war was declared by the USA, l’ll save you some time, WW2.

Our Senators and Representatives in the House make it seem like the President runs the government. Make Congress do their job or vote them out.

The USA is not a business so get that fallacy out of your head. ENRON had a hell of a CEO—until they didn’t.

Excellent points, Slim.

Our three-branch system with an executive independent of the legislative has unavoidably, in the age of instant information, become a system focused on single personality, that of the president or, candidate for president. Unlike when the Constitution was written, the "Madison Avenue" influence of marketing has pervaded electoral politics and the race for president has become one of personality cult rather than one of issues and policy. Look no further than the 2020 presidential contest when one of the major parties chose not to even state its policy goals and issue positions, deferring to whatever its candidate's whims dictated. That meant that the party's congressional candidates were, in effect, running on no platform other than to defer to whatever the executive wanted. And we're surprised that Congress has become a toothless tiger?

This almost exclusive focus on the executive branch has weakened the legislative branch (along with rules self-imposed by Congress which make it unable to function with any efficiency or deftness.) At the same time, due to an imbalance in power between the three presumably co-equal branches of government, the strong executive has naturally worked to make the judicial branch subservient by appointing persons whose loyalties lie more with political considerations than with unbiased judicial function. This now applies equally to presidents of either party.

It is not at all surprising that State Department professionals advise emerging democracies on the structure of their constitution that they urge avoiding a U.S.-like three branch structure and advise them create a Parliamentary system. Under such a system the voters have a clearer choice: When the party (or coalition) with the majority institutes the wrong policies it is easy to identify who is responsible and vote them out. With a personality cult presidency, an impotent legislature, and a compromised judiciary, voters are left with little upon which to base their votes. In that case, personalities win and democracy loses.

Also, our constitutional structure in how we elect both our executive and our legislative is one that no one would every sanction in an emerging democracy. When 7 million more Americans vote for one candidate over another there shouldn't be ANY necessity for appointing ceremonial "electors" which are disproportionate to the actual votes cast, to vote again on which candidate should assume office, much less have a ceremonial counting of those predetermined votes. It might have made sense when it took weeks to get from Georgia to Washington and the voters in Georgia had never heard of "Martin Van Buren" and had no idea his qualifications for the presidency. So they depended on sending trusted local persons (electors) to Washington to represent them in deciding who should be entrusted with the presidency. But certainly that system makes no sense at all today.

Neither would anyone sanction a system of legislative representation in which some citizens have ten times the representation per capita as other, presumably equal, citizens. Such distorted representation is a big factor in the legislative branch's growing impotence and inability to function -- and if that branch is disfunctional then our "three equal branches" in effect cease to exist; thus our Constitution, and the protections it affords (including the second amendment) sit on very shaky ground.

It is not surprising that, under a system more than two centuries old -- and on top of that being an experimental system to begin with -- we are in great need of updating our constitutional framework. This is not to say that our forebears who fashioned the constitution were not brilliant. They did a fantastic job of creating a new and cutting edge system of government. But we can all recognize that circumstances change and democracy can be lost if systems don't change with those circumstances. The original constitution had numerous shortcomings that have since been corrected -- the first time with 10 important amendments spelling out the rights of individuals. Eventually, the constitution was changed to keep women or people whose skin color didn't match the majority from being excluded from full citizenship. It was changed to allow equitable taxation across the country. It was changed to make an orderly transition when a president died or was disabled. Now it is time to change it to preserve the very democracy which its authors intended.

Unless you're an anarchist or believe in autocracy, you should put your voice behind making the reforms that will keep our democracy functioning throughout the 21 Century, and hopefully beyond. You can start by disavowing the violence and anti-democracy of the rioters who violated our Capitol and hoped to throw a monkey wrench into the creaky wheels of our nation's democracy. Making excuses for them just plays into the hands of our enemies, both domestic and foreign, weakens our country, and endangers the future of our children.