The annual Big Time Texas Hunt winners were announced this past week.

All winners except one are Texas residents; the only "foreigner" is from Louisiana.

So, for those who object to out-of-staters being allowed to enter, take solace in the knowledge that non-residents' entry fees are now ensconced in Texas coffers, without return on interlopers' investments.

I'll keep entering, chiefly because Texas is my birthplace, but hold little hope of ever being drawn for a hunt.

On the other hand, sending my dollars to support Texas wildlife is probably a much better use of funds than contributing to political candidates.

I participate in the regular draw hunts yearly, this was my first year to really put in for the Big Time Hunts. Both are good programs, but I admit that I am one of those Texans that wish the programs were open to Texas Residents Only.

My biggest reason for feeling that way lies strictly with the fact that Texas has such a limited amount of Public Land open to hunting for Texas Residents.

Other than that one aspect I support both programs, and a person, resident or non-resident can't win if they don't participate in the programs.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I participate in the regular draw hunts yearly, this was my first year to really put in for the Big Time Hunts. Both are good programs, but I admit that I am one of those Texans that wish the programs were open to Texas Residents Only.

Well, my point, is, only Texans win (with one exception this year) so allowing non-res folks to enter, with no real statistical opportunity to win, serves to increase wildlife funding without penalizing Texas residents.

OK, maybe one hunt went to an out-of-state winner, but how many of us not living in Texas sent $100 or more in entry fees (my annual limit)? Seems like a fair trade-off.

I won the grand slam....I'm pumped!

Again each is entitled to their own opinion, I just feel that Texas Residents should be the only ones eligible for the drawings.

I however do not make the rules, TP&WD does, and in spite of my own personal hang up, I am very Thankful that they offer the hunts that they do.

Having been drawn for quite a few of the regular drawing hunts over the years I can live with Non-Residents being allowed access to the program, but just like folks in the various western states that have gotten their Game Depts. to limit the percentage of Non-Residents that can enter drawings/buy licenses to hunt in those states, I could live with TP&WD excluding Non-Residents from these drawings, but I can live with NR's being able to enter, as long as the programs continue to be available.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Again each is entitled to their own opinion, I just feel that Texas Residents should be the only ones eligible for the drawings.

Just to play Devil's Advocate I'd like to point out that other states like CO, WY, UT, MT, ID, WA, OR, AZ, NM, NV etc... all allow non-residents, including Texans, to apply for their limited tags for things like sheep, goat, moose etc... so it is in no way out of line for TX to do likewise.

quote:

Originally posted by 505ED:
I won the grand slam....I'm pumped!

Congratulations, Ed. I'm pleased you won, and especially glad an AR member cashed in "big time!"

quote:

Originally posted by 505ED:
I won the grand slam....I'm pumped!

Congratulations! Extremely envious!

I won zilch.

quote:

Originally posted by 505ED:
I won the grand slam....I'm pumped!

Good for you, I'm jealous, but I hope you have fantastic hunts. My wife and I participate every year (and have for many years) and neither of us has been drawn for anything. I'd be pumped, too!

ED!!!

You lucky son of a gun... congratulations!

quote:

I won the grand slam....I'm pumped!

CONGRATULATIONS Sir, that will be an experience of a lifetime.

Randall:
I can see your point.
I also get irritated when I don't draw a tag here in CO, then find out 50% were drawn by mostly Texans!

Stay focused!

George

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:
Randall:
I can see your point.
I also get irritated when I don't draw a tag here in CO, then find out 50% were drawn by mostly Texans!

Stay focused!

George

Ha ha...Perfect

quote:

Originally posted by Jason P:

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:
Randall:
I can see your point.
I also get irritated when I don't draw a tag here in CO, then find out 50% were drawn by mostly Texans!

Stay focused!

George

Ha ha...Perfect

I have never hunted CO, so this may be somewhat an "un-educated post", but having talked to lots of folks that go to CO every year to hunt, the inevitable response when I ask them how it went is "You know, those folks hate Texans, but they sure like our money."

Also, I am VERY surprised that CO would allow that percentage of out of staters to draw tags. I believe the number in Idaho is 10% max' I have to believe that the other western stares are pretty much in line with that number.

As a matter of fact, it appears to me that the only reason CO would allow that number of NRs to draw tags is specifically BECAUSE of the money it generates. Which puts me in a circular conversation, based on the comment I quoted above.

SO I will hush...

Doubless:

Not to hijack this thread but, and I only speak for Utah, I believe that it is important to have non-resident hunters. It benefits the economy as well as the Fish and Game.

One of my best friends is from Texas and he comes to Utah every year to hunt elk with me. I look forward to it every year.

If you ever want information in regards to applying in Utah (and that go for other NR's), send me a PM and I would be glad to help.

Congratulations 505!! I also see Randall's point and would be happy if they charged a different fee for non-residents, other than the cost of the hunting license. The fact that the fee is the same for everyone is a little different.

I have never entered, but may give it a shot next year.

quote:

Originally posted by 505ED:
I won the grand slam....I'm pumped!

Outstanding!!!! I can't wait to see the report!

Congratulations!

.

quote:

Just to play Devil's Advocate I'd like to point out that other states like CO, WY, UT, MT, ID, WA, OR, AZ, NM, NV etc... all allow non-residents, including Texans, to apply for their limited tags for things like sheep, goat, moose etc... so it is in no way out of line for TX to do likewise.

That is true, but those states, or several of those states have instituted limits on the numbers of Non-Residents that can obtain licenses/permits for Big Game hunts, TYexas places No Limits.

Again, one more time for those that seem to be unable to comprehend, while I would like to see the programs limited to Texas Residents Only, I am glad the programs are in place and if TP&W wants to have them open to Non-Texans, that is the department's choice, I do not have to like it or agree with it, but I am glad that the programs exist.

quote:

I also get irritated when I don't draw a tag here in CO, then find out 50% were drawn by mostly Texans!

George, I may be wrong, but I think the percentage of Non-Resident permits in Colorado is well below 50%.

I will have to check but I think Colorado has dropped the percentage of Non-Resident permits lower than that.

Also, what do Colorado Residents pay for either Bull or Cow Elk tags.

In 1992 when I started hunting Elk and Mule deer in Colorado, I could buy a Bull tag and a buck tag for $150.00 each. Now a Non-Resident Cow Tag, if you can get drawn, is almost $500.00, only about $100.00 less than a bull tag. Plus Non-Residents have to put in to draw a cow tag. When I started hunting cows in 1994, the tags were $75.00 and it was an easy draw.

Point is, I am one person and I would like to see these hunts limited to Texas Residents, but it is not that big an issue for me, buit it seems to be a BIG issue for other people.

quote:

As a matter of fact, it appears to me that the only reason CO would allow that number of NRs to draw tags is specifically BECAUSE of the money it generates. Which puts me in a circular conversation, based on the comment I quoted above.

Doubless, no need to hush, because you are correct. The reason Colorado and other mountain states have placed limits on the numbers of permits Non-Residents can draw, is because the Residents were being cut out by landowners/guides/outfitters catering to Non-Residents.

Look at what a bull elk tag costs a Resident of Colorado and compare that to the rise in Non-Resident tag costs. Because Colorado DOW is set up the way it is, Non-Resident license prices increased to the level they are, because of the reduced number of licenses/permits available to Non-Residents.

Problem was Colorado DOW was making the majority of its income from Non-Resident hunters, and many Residents were getting cut out of being able to hunt.

My hang up concerning the Texas programs is that so many Texans can not afford the lease fees any more and we have hardly ANY Public Land.

Doubless/Randall:

I just threw that 50% number out there. Never gave it a thought you guys would take me to task over an off the wall number. Oh well---!

I'm sure it's not 50% either, just seems that way at times when we can't draw a tag in our own state sometimes. Though a great majority of the state is OTC for bulls, just a few areas are draw only for bull elk. Deer are 100% draw now, same as antelope and bear. I fully expect it won't be too long til all elk tags are draw too.

Hell guys, all these game wardens have to have a new truck every year! That's a lotta bucks a many as there seems to be sometimes.

I don't know if they've gone up for 2016 or not, I don't have the regs for this year and haven't gone in five years now due to the health problems I've been fighting. Hopefully, I can be healed up and able to make it next year.

For 2015 the prices were: deer: R $34, NR $374
Cow elk R: $49, bull: $same,
NR: Cow $464/includes fishing, bull: $619, either sex $619/inc. fishing. Moose R: $254 NR $2064 Bear R: $44, NR $354

Damned robbery for Non Residents. I'm sorry for that, but, I wasn't in on setting those prices.

Back in the late '50s when I started hunting Deer tags were $7, Elk $10, fishing $5. I have no clue what the NR's tags were back then.

Ok, to set the record straight: "up to 20% tags go to Non Residents, that's for areas that take up to 6 pts to draw, areas that take 6pts or more for residents, up to 35% may go to NR's.

Like most states the regs are written in a way so no one can stand a chance of knowing just what they say, solely so they can be writing tickets for some obscure violation hidden in the mumbo jumbo crap.


Oh yeah, there's no such thing as CODOW any longer, it's now: CPW Re: Colo Parks n Wildlife.
Shows where their priority is don't it?

Hope this sorts things out for everyone.
George

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

I also get irritated when I don't draw a tag here in CO, then find out 50% were drawn by mostly Texans!

George, I may be wrong, but I think the percentage of Non-Resident permits in Colorado is well below 50%.

I will have to check but I think Colorado has dropped the percentage of Non-Resident permits lower than that.

Also, what do Colorado Residents pay for either Bull or Cow Elk tags.

In 1992 when I started hunting Elk and Mule deer in Colorado, I could buy a Bull tag and a buck tag for $150.00 each. Now a Non-Resident Cow Tag, if you can get drawn, is almost $500.00, only about $100.00 less than a bull tag. Plus Non-Residents have to put in to draw a cow tag. When I started hunting cows in 1994, the tags were $75.00 and it was an easy draw.

Point is, I am one person and I would like to see these hunts limited to Texas Residents, but it is not that big an issue for me, buit it seems to be a BIG issue for other people.

CHC there are still plenty of units you can hunt elk OTC in Colorado even for a non-resident. There is absolutely no need to rely on tbe draw to hunt elk, but I'm guessing you're comfortable about the unit you hunt. Besides I'm sure you really don't complain too much about our non-resident prices when you price an elk hunt in TX. I've paid $300+ for deer and elk tags from landowners just for the opportunity to hunt with my buddies when i didn't draw a cheap resident tag.mmm

I don't mind out of state hunters, I often enjoy hunting out of state myself. Besides we have hunts that are only available to residents as listed in our brochure. Im sure Texans don't care much for us Coloradans when we hunt in TX, but TX loves our money as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:it may

My hang up concerning the Texas programs is that so many Texans can not afford the lease fees any more and we have hardly ANY Public Land.

While we have public lands, CO is also feeling the pinch from exorbitant leases. Much of the private ground I used to hunt just for asking when i was a kid, is now closed off to me. With the rural economy the way it is I can't blame the old neighbors for trying to earn some extra money, but it sucks to see my hunting grounds for pronghorn and plains mule deer dissappear. Hell it takes 8-9 years to draw a rifle landowner tag for a buck mule deer on my families property now, when I started hunting deer it was a 1 prefrence point unit. I could always draw a doe second choice, now they take multiple PP as well.

All this does is force more people onto public lands, which in turn makes it harder to be successful. For the first time ever my hunting buddies and I are considering leasing ground for hunting here in CO. We just haven't hammered out all the details yet between us yet, to even approach the landowner yet with an offer.

This has became a circular discussion about a subject that is not that important.

Just like I do not speak for all Texans, just myself, everyone else ios merely stating their on opinion on the subject.

I am pretty confident that all of us find things we do not agree with our home state's Game and Fish Departments and/or those departments in the states we travel to hunt in, that is just life.

Texas isn't all that different than some other states..Idaho only allows 10% of non residents to be picked for any draw hunt, Most states are geared for their residents, I have no problem with that..A real complaint is the cost of non resident licenses over the last 10 years, they just keep creeping up!

Im a native born Texan, living in Idaho, I dont' put in for Texas Draw hunts, but fortunately I have relitives that ranch in Texas, so I get to hunt every year in the Lone Star state..I have friends and relitives in both the Mule deer country of the Big Bend and relitives in the Texas Hill country and South Texas for Whitetail..Nene of them have fenced ranches, all cattle rances with deer on them, so the deer I shoot are smaller than bred fenced deer, A 160 Mule deer or a 140 Whitetail is a good one..Then on a couple of occasion I have shot a real whopper of both species.

As a Texan, if I were hunting Colorado on private land, I can see being charged non resident price. Federal land in Colorado, why should I have to pay more than a Colorado resident? As a veteran I didn't serve for Texas only, nor did I serve to exclude Colorado. Yet a person that is Colorado resident, that didn't serve at all gets benefit of Federal land that I don't.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
As a Texan, if I were hunting Colorado on private land, I can see being charged non resident price. Federal land in Colorado, why should I have to pay more than a Colorado resident? As a veteran I didn't serve for Texas only, nor did I serve to exclude Colorado. Yet a person that is Colorado resident, that didn't serve at all gets benefit of Federal land that I don't.

Fist off thank you for serving carpetman1.

Second your statement is disappointing to one who has served as well. I didn't spend the last 20 years serving in the Military for any extra entitlements. I did it out of a sense of duty to my country and for what I believe it should stand for, not for a privileged status in any state in this country. The only thing the military and this country owes me after I retire on 1 Feb 2017 is my retirement and medical benefits at age 60 since I did most of my service in the Army Reserves.

quote:

Texas isn't all that different than some other states.

Texas is a LOT different than other states.

Non-Resident hunting license in Texas cost $315.00, and a Non-Resident has the exact same bag limit as Texas Residents, 4 to 5 whitetails, 4 turkeys, 1 Mule deer and 2 javelina.

Show me ANY other state where a Non-Resident can do that.

Not meaning to dispute you Mr. Atkinson, but that is why Non-Residents lease hunting properties here in Texas.

Taylorforce, I can easily see how my post would seem I'm looking for SPECIAL favor. Not so. EQUAL treatment. My point of being a veteran was, WE served for ALL states. Then to be placed second place to hunt on FEDERAL land by someone that didn't serve, but is Colorado resident, would be like not getting hired because you are a vet. BTW thank you for your service--enjoy retirement.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Taylorforce, I can easily see how my post would seem I'm looking for SPECIAL favor. Not so. EQUAL treatment. My point of being a veteran was, WE served for ALL states. Then to be placed second place to hunt on FEDERAL land by someone that didn't serve, but is Colorado resident, would be like not getting hired because you are a vet. BTW thank you for your service--enjoy retirement.

I still believe you are asking for special favor. In CO the animals you're allowed to hunt don't belong to the property they are on. They belong to the residents of CO, not the land they habitat. You don't pay the government to hunt on federal lands you pay CO for the opportunity to hunt CO big game animals on 23 million acres of accessible public lands which are not all federally owned. Or you can pay to access private land in CO as well just like TX and have a greater chance of success.

I've taken advantage of places that offer Military/Veteran discounts, and places that offer hiring preference to Veterans. However, I've never demanded these things be given to me, nor will I ever expect these be given to me for doing something that I feel was my duty to do. Yes I served all the people of the United States but primarily I served the Constitution, Commander and Chief, and the Officers appointed over me. I will never hold over another person that I served and they didn't, because let us be honest not all people are cut out to serve in the military.

Giving resident prices for people who aren't residents or currently serving actively in the Military is a can of worms I don't want opened. It would require getting the Feds more involved with our states wildlife management. While I agree it's expensive to buy a non-resident tag, I do believe CO does give more opportunities to non-residents to hunt big game cheaper than many other states.

Taylorforce--Guess it would be best to agree to disagree. My bringing up the vet portion could be left out totally. It was to point out that I actually had more to do with the security of Colorado than a Colorado resident-non vet. Certainly no claim to being superior over the non vet, nor holding any ill will against them for being a non vet. Again I'm speaking of a US Citizen hunting on Federal land, not Colorado land. Fine, Colorado owns the animal. Should they not be paying Federal grazing fees for feeding THEIR animals? Which would raise Colorado taxes and then they would scream for Texans to come harvest some of the Colorado owned game that is on Federal land.
BTW, I think you should take advantage of places that give vets special privileges--Lowes, Home Depot and others offer discounts. If you have a disability rating, that offers some benefits. These things are offered and of course can't be demanded.

Well since this conversation has jumped the tracks so far, maybe just a little information would be in order.

The biggest difference between the various states is the manner in which the individual states Game and Fish commissions are formed.

In Texas the membors of the Board of Directors of TP&WD are appointed by the Governor.

In Colorado, unless it has changed, the members are elected by the Public and the makeup of the board is mixed with people from various interests on the board, from past information there is only one actual sportsman/woman aka "Hunter" on the board.

The main reason Colorado regs are the way they are concerning Non-Residents is at the behest of Colorado hunters that were tired of having Public Land getting blocked off, basically taken over by guides and outfitters bringing in Non-Resident hunters. It got pretty wild evidently, so Colorado sportsmen banned together and lobbied to raise license fees for Non-Residents and reduce the numbers of tags NR's could obtain.

It caused a big drop in income and hurt some of Colorado Division of Wildlife's programs.

Some good points made, but residents should get the best part of the chicken, and they do in all states that I know of..It works out for all of us. otherwise the states with the best game herds would be shot out in a year, the whole country would show up on day one of the best states hunting season...I remember when Colorado had a 5 or 7 deer limit and open to non residents at a reasonable price, We Texans, I plead guilty, shot the deer out in two years for a greedy game dept run by politicians. Same took place in Idaho, we had the best deer in the country in the 1980s, but greedy politicians looking for votes and a game dept. wanting more money for new buildings and vehicles ruined Idahos hunting for most, and its never been the same, and oh my, he lies they told us about game numbers, excuses galore.

Get over it, its not a perfect world, but game must be managed for each state, or the Federal govt. would take over and that would be an even worse Chinese air raid drill..

Mr Atkinson, I fully agree residents should get the best part of the chicken, on STATE and PRIVATE land. This could include not allowing any non residents (Which of course doesn't happen because of the $$$$) Those same $$$ that hunters spend are to be used in part to determine herd populations and harvest numbers and establish methods of harvesting the game---managing the herd, to prevent being shot out. Federal land is a whole nother story. Would it be right that a California resident be charged less than a resident of another state to enter Yosemite NATIONAL Park? Certainly a state park could have a price break for residents, but not National parks.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Taylorforce--Guess it would be best to agree to disagree. My bringing up the vet portion could be left out totally. It was to point out that I actually had more to do with the security of Colorado than a Colorado resident-non vet. Certainly no claim to being superior over the non vet, nor holding any ill will against them for being a non vet. Again I'm speaking of a US Citizen hunting on Federal land, not Colorado land. Fine, Colorado owns the animal. Should they not be paying Federal grazing fees for feeding THEIR animals? Which would raise Colorado taxes and then they would scream for Texans to come harvest some of the Colorado owned game that is on Federal land.
BTW, I think you should take advantage of places that give vets special privileges--Lowes, Home Depot and others offer discounts. If you have a disability rating, that offers some benefits. These things are offered and of course can't be demanded.

You had more to do with CO security than a non-vet Coloradan? Well I'm pretty sure that there were non-vet Coloradans paying you for that security that you provided. There was a contract you signed with the people of the United States, it clearly laid out what you'd get for your service. I don't know why any resident benefit you'd receive as an active duty service member serving in Colorado should continue after the completion of your contract.

As far as grazing fees, I feel that is paid in the form of taxes the Federal Government gets. Just like you got paid from those tax paying citizens who provided for your military pay. So why should being a Veteran get you anything more than the people who paid you while serving in the military.

I'm proud of my service, and I will not belittle it by feeling I deserve more than what was promised to me. I agreed to the terms of the contract when I signed it, and I will serve to the best of my ability until its end. So yes I agree that we will probably never see eye to eye on this.

Taylorforce--Did you miss the part that I said I'm speaking of a US Citizen (Vet/or non vet) hunting there? The part that the vet portion could be left out totally.
If a persons taxes they pay is satisfying their military service obligation, why was Elvis drafted?
The Federal is getting grazing fees from other taxes paid? I pay income tax, so I can feel I should not pay Federal taxes on gasoline, cigarettes, alcohol (call them grazing).

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

Texas isn't all that different than some other states.

Texas is a LOT different than other states.

Non-Resident hunting license in Texas cost $315.00, and a Non-Resident has the exact same bag limit as Texas Residents, 4 to 5 whitetails, 4 turkeys, 1 Mule deer and 2 javelina.

Show me ANY other state where a Non-Resident can do that.

Not meaning to dispute you Mr. Atkinson, but that is why Non-Residents lease hunting properties here in Texas.

Without looking at the regulations I believe you can do that in Pennsylvania. Non-resident hunting license in cheap compared to other states. ! antlered. Draw for antlerless. Spring and fall turkey. You also have about the same chance to draw a converted Elk tag as a resident does (there is a point system [points accumulate
to add additional chances to draw]).

There is No Draw in Texas, that is one of the differences. A Non-Resident can walk into any place that sells license, lay down a valid ID and $315.00, and get a license that allows that person to kill the animals I listed, and that includes does.

Again, please prove that a Non-Resident can do that in Any Other State.

A Non-Resident, depending on what county/counties they are hunting, can Legally kill 4 or 5 does, No Draw, if they choose, or two or three bucks and two does in addition to 4 turkeys, 2 javelina, and a Pronghorn, nO draw.

It all depends on the hunter and how much they want to spend, you can even shoot a Desert Bighorn, if you have the $$$$$ to pay the landowner.

That is the bad part for many folks, having to pay the Landowners fees.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
There is No Draw in Texas, that is one of the differences. A Non-Resident can walk into any place that sells license, lay down a valid ID and $315.00, and get a license that allows that person to kill the animals I listed, and that includes does.

Again, please prove that a Non-Resident can do that in Any Other State.

A Non-Resident, depending on what county/counties they are hunting, can Legally kill 4 or 5 does, No Draw, if they choose, or two or three bucks and two does in addition to 4 turkeys, 2 javelina, and a Pronghorn, nO draw.

It all depends on the hunter and how much they want to spend, you can even shoot a Desert Bighorn, if you have the $$$$$ to pay the landowner.

That is the bad part for many folks, having to pay the Landowners fees.

You can do that in Ohio and a lot cheaper. A non resident license is $125.00 and a deer tag is #24.00.

Rad

quote:

You can do that in Ohio and a lot cheaper. A non resident license is $125.00 and a deer tag is #24.00.

How many deer can a Non-Resident shoot in a season?

Not saying that there aren't good deals around the country if hunters are willing to look around.

I simply believe that Texas gives Non-Residents a better deal. It is quite possible in relation to size, Ohio may have a larger percentage of Public Land than Texas.

HerrMesser, I have to agree with Randall on this one. I am looking at my Texas tag and the Ohio regulations. I see no Mule Deer tag in Ohio, I have two for Texas, I have already taken an Antelope this year. Don't see that tag in Ohio either. I believe they consider Elk a deer, but I could be wrong about that one. I have 4 turkey tags. I MIGHT be able to get 4 in Ohio if I got tags in different areas. That still leaves me with 5 MORE White Tail tags. The most in Ohio is 4 total. All for my $310

Sorry, but not even close. IF you have somewhere to hunt in Texas, it appears to be one of the best deals anywhere. The big IF is having somewhere to hunt. I will admit that I am spoiled by the million acres of State land and another million plus of private walk-in land that Kansas has.