This thread is a double whammy. By mentioning Col. Boddington's name on any subject, the result is lots of opinions. Now, inadvertantly pitting the 30-06 against the 7mm mag, now we really have a debate!

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Good Hunting & Hunt Safe,
David

I agree with what a lot of people have said... The 30-06 vs. XXXX is just a pissing contest...

A lot of it is a personal choice not so dissimilar to politics...

I personally own a Remington Model 700 Sendero SF in 7mm Rem Mag topped with a Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10x50mm scope. I am not a full-time hunter that travels the world. I hunt (Michigan - my birth home) on family -owned farm land, South Carolina and Colorado..

For medium sized game, I use 150gr Swift Scirocco Rem. ammo and get awesome results.. An extremely flat factory load on deer (thin-skinned game) and great ballistics coefficient... The Nosler Ballistic Tip is a close second... 160 grain works well too. Anything larger on thin-skined game like white-tail just really seem to be overkill to me.

For bigger game, I have had great success with the Nosler Partition (160 grain) and the 175 grain Trophy-bonded Bear Claw.. Both of them Federal Premium loads...

I am not a reloader - yet. But my buddies are starting to make a believer out of me.
My two cents..

500 if you even want to ensure you make it to the bottom of the heap, and stay there, then dont ever promote yourself. Personaly I find him mostly a humble writer.

People have some funny ideas about gunwriters. The reality is they get 1/2, of 1/2 ,of about 1/2 of what you think they do. They get a shockingly small amount of money for their articles, and most have to keep some kind of real job just to keep their kids off of Alpo. Like being in the Reserves!

I know cause ive known some and I did a small amount myself. Boddington is , in my mind, much better then Askins and O'Connor. Both of whom were walking Bill-Boards, grabbed all they could, and made no apologies to anyone about. Askins would have probably punched anyone who said anything to him, or shot him.

As another famous old gunwriter said, "Exuse me for makeing a living".

This isnt some Klinton or Dyke Attorney General were talking about here. This is one of us! A General in our Marine Corp, and somebody who is helping our sport everyday. You can tell a lot of guys on these boards arent veterans ; They never learned how to show respect!

And thats the way this thread started 500grns, and maybe would have gone on if Atkinson and I wouldnt have chimed in. We had him on the 25 Hour Campfire until all those guys ran him off with their BS! I guess they missed "common courtesy class".

There are plenty of gun-grabbing Liberals, and yuppies, commies, and assorted leftist scum for us to badmouth here, or insult. And I can lace a post with insults,contempt, and vulgarity with the best of them ; In fact, I think Saeed is going to give me an award for it.

But lets keep it for our enemies , and brother, WE gunners do have them. And they dont have names like Boddington!

Thats all Im saying......take care.....10

I don't always agree with Boddington's conclusions, but there is a difference between disagreeing with and disliking someone.

Gen. Craig has loads of safari and other hunt experience under his belt, and communicates that experience reasonably well in print.

Why so many folks foam at the mouth over him I don't understand. I have not detected the "if you don't agree with me you don't know squat" syndrome that has affected some other writers.

Just my 2 sheckels' worth.....

BigIron

Forgot to talk about Boddington:

1) a few months back he wrote an article about the "ultimate North American big-game battery". I had read Boddington's stuff prior to that and thought "this guy is trying to overcompensate for a lack of something else manly". After that article, however, I started to change my view of him. He selected 3 cartridges, .270 Win, .300 WBY, and .338 Win Mag to do all his North American work. I couldn't agree more. It was a great article full of practical knowledge and advice. Not just the typical gun review BS.

2) The way I see it, people dislike Boddington because sometimes his writing is condescending. For example, he tells you never to hunt rabbits with anything smaller than a bazooka, but turns around and hunts cape buffalo with a daisy red ryder and says "don't try this at home---I'm a professional with lots of experience under my belt". People don't want to hear that. Everybody knows that a properly-placed shot from their .270 win will do the duty on an Elk, despite what Boddington preaches. Don't bash a man's cartridge, and don't mess with his salad.

Boddington is well known for jumping on the bandwagon of any company with a new product.He will back a product one week then forget all about it next month because another company has something new.This is the main reason many people do not respect him.

I like to read the Craig Boddington's articles. If he writes about new products thats okay. I was surprised that the 8MM remington mag became a favorite of his and that he seemed unhappy that it did not become more popular.

Wapi-T

What the hell are you talking about? I read most of Boddington's books and articles and I have never seen him preaching the use of overly large cartridges for smaller game. When has he ever wrote about using small cartridges on buffalo? When has he ever said anything to the effect of "Don't try this at home, I'm a professional with lots of expierence under my belt."?

It sounds as though you are repeating something you heard someone else say.

Jason

In my opinion:

There is nothing wrong with the .270, or the 7 Mag, or the .280, or the .30-06, or the .375 H&H...

There's nothing wrong with Boddington either.

-- Mats

J Brown-

Don't get belligerent with me, son. Put those guns away and read the articles more carefully. The legal minimum for Cape Buffalo in these countries is .375, and Boddington is constantly shooting them with .338 Win Mags or .338 Ultra mags, and then ranting about how regular people should not try this because only his holiness knows better.

Then he turns around and preaches a ridiculous .30 caliber minimum for "regular" big game that can easily and safely be taken with much smaller calibers. I know what the hell I'm talking about, but it's apparent you haven't taken the time to think about the ramifications of Boddington's hypocricy. Start off with a decent approach next time, and maybe we'll get off to a nicer start.

Wapi-T

I'd like to know where you've been reading about Boddington "constantly" using a 338win Mag and a 338 Ultra Mag on buffalo. I've found one piece about him using a 338 Ultra, but never a 338win. This isn't "constantly" to me.

Regards
JMeier

I too would like to see ALL THESE ARTICLES that Wapi-T is talking about!

Guys

Wapi-T would be happy to tell us where he read these articles but used them to roll up the stuff he is smoking and he can't rember the name of the magazine.

Boddington is no less flawed than anyone else. The least you can do is stick to blasting him for things he has actually written.

I see your feeling were hurt because I called bullshit on you. Thats too bad.

I would have been "decent" if you were not as full of shit as a christmas goose.

Thanks, you guys are sweethearts.

Call Mr. Boddington and ask him how many of cape buffalo he has taken with his "fast .33's". I have not kept a careful catalog of all of Mr. Boddington's adventures. I have other things to do.

I have, however, read many of his articles where he tells the reader that because of the sectional densities of the .338 caliber bullets, they penetrate better and perform better than the .375's. Because of his superior understanding, Mr. Boddington allows himself to sneer at the regulations and use calibers smaller than the legal limits while hunting in Africa.

So exactly when did you call BS, J Brown? Boddington violates the regulations in Africa by using calibers that are smaller than the legal limits and then tells everybody here to leave their sub-.308 caliber rifles home for normal big game hunting. That is a fact. It is a point of hypocricy. If you are too obtuse to see it, that's not my problem.

I'm not trying to start or continue a pissing match here, but wasn't the fast 33 guy Ross Seyfried? Who also said the recoil of a 378 Wby wasn't bad? (paraphrasing). Maybe he just has the wrong writer (bad pun, I know, sorry). - Dan

Boddington also uses the term "fast 33's" often.

Now that I've had about an hour to browse through magazines from the past 2 years, here's what I found RE Boddington's caliber conundrum:

1) Rifle Shooter, Nov/Dec 2001: "The .338 Winchester Magnum, although one of the very best elk cartridges, is a bit on the slow side with the heavier bullets best-suited for elk...(and) the light .33 caliber bullets aren't the best choices for elk."

2) Rifle Shooter, July/Aug 2001: "(I) flattened this buffalo with a single 250-grain Swift A-frame from a .338 RUM, but that is pushing the limit and, without perfect shot placement and equally perfect bullet performance, this could have caused trouble."

3) Peterson's Hunting, June 2001: "(For Alaskan Brown Bear), I think the .33s are a sensible minimum...A large Alaskan brown bear can weigh the same as an average Cape buffalo, so the argument could be made that any rifle suitable for Alaskan brown bear is also suitable for African buffalo. In theory, a .338 Win Mag...loaded with good bullets would be okay."

4) Rifle Shooter, April 2001: "With a good 250 Grain bullet I wouldn't hesitate to take on Cape buffalo with any .33, from the .338 Win Mag upward."

5) Rifle Shooter, April 2001 (very next article): "Among other game, I have already used (the .338 RUM) to take Cape buffalo, so I know what it will do. I don't necessarily recommend it for such use for two reasons. First, .33 lies below the legal minimum for buffalo in many African countries. Second, bullet diameter is too small to reliably stop a charge. Even so, there are very few things that cannot be done with a good .33-caliber bullet pushed fast."

So let me get this straight: A .338 Win Mag shooting 200 grain bullets is a questionable selection for elk hunting? I call BS!

But the real point here is this: J Brown, eat my shorts. There are four quotations in about nine months' time from Boddington on his unhesitating illegal use of .338 caliber cartridges on Cape buffalo, with at least two disclaimers to the "don't try this at home" effect. Yeah, I would say that Boddington is CONSTANTLY plugging the .338's for Cape Buffalo duty. Any more questions?

Y'all probably don't own .338's. I do, and so I have taken careful and critical note of the things that have been said.

[This message has been edited by Wapi-T (edited 02-13-2002).]

I still don't see any information about Mr. Boddington "constantly" using 338's for Cape Buffalo.

Gotta move this thread back up top. Still waiting to hear what my detractors have to say for themselves. I think I heard one of them say that I was "as full of shit as a christmas goose", infer that I was under the influence of illicit drugs, and accuse me of parroting something somebody else said about Boddington without having any evidence or documentation of my own.

Where'd you guys go?

The man plugs the use of .338 caliber cartridges on Cape Buffalo at least FIVE TIMES in less than nine months and you don't see my point? Give me a break. How many buffalo he has killed with his .338 in the same time frame, I can't tell you. That was never the point. The point is that he uses it, he advocates it ALL THE TIME (non-stop), even though it is smaller than the legal minimum, and then he tells everyone they'd better be hunting deer and elk with a .30 caliber minimum (which is ludicrous). That really irritates me.

Now all of this said, I did indicate in my first boddington post that I have actually come around to liking much of what he says. Never having hunted Cape buffalo myself, I have to defer to Boddington's vast experience. Whether or not you all find fault with Boddington's cartridge laws, I do. And that's all I was saying.

[This message has been edited by Wapi-T (edited 02-13-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Wapi-T (edited 02-13-2002).]

Wapi-T
My reading of your Boddington quotes tells me that here is a writer given an assignment to write about 338's and African game. He has done so in a way that his editor will pay for while not exactly recommending 338's for African game. This does seem to be the way the gun writer game is played these days. We all have to realize that total freedom to speak our mind when someone else is paying the bill happens here on Saeed's dime and not in many other places, certainly not in magazines driven by advertising dollars. The various gun magazines are written to sell advertising and make the publisher money, if any wisdom seeps through it can only be a lucky accident or a writer skillful enough to parse it in ways the editor cannot object to. We can piss and moan about what is written but until someone funds a magazine that doesn't rely on advertisers dollars the writers will have to write what they are told to write. Fortunately we have this little bit of cyberspace to come to for serious information.

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If Elmer didn't say it, it probably ain't true.

Maybe I shouldn't speak up on this topic as I don't give a rat's ass about who is or isn't someone elses favorite writer, nor have i ever shot a .338. But the quote was

"First, .33 lies below the legal minimum for
buffalo in many African countries."
He does not say all African countries and goes on say it may not be best because it won't always stop a charge.
I feel better knowing my 30-06 will stop a charge from a deer and is adequate for the moose and elk it has klled

Wapi-T

I see my refrence to drugs got your hackles up, I thought it might.

Now you have an idea how CB would feel about your post accusing him of illegal activity. As Murf pointed out the 338 is not illegal for buffalo in all African countries.

I find the CB haters seem to read things into his articles that simply are not there. These haters call him arrogant and conceited. I read the same articles and find him to be modest and at times down right humble.

I thought you might be repeating someone else's thoughts because of your quote about not trying this at home because "I am a professional with lots of experience". I have read where others have used a similar quote, and I know he has never said this.

Jason

Typical Boddington article.

1. Company XYZ gave me a new ultra velocity push feed something mag and it is great.

2. Company ABC gave me a very fine Japanese made scope that is the clearest thing I have every seen.

3. Company DEF gave me some factory ammo and with the ammo gun and scope I was able to shoot fantastic 1.75-2 inch groups.

4. I went on a guided hunt on a ranch. We walked around for a while and I shot a nice _____ animal. Outfitter ZZZ is excellent and he cooks a good steak.

I very much respect his Military service.

BUT,"500grains" nailed his writings in the periodicals.

He is without peer,for riding the fence.................

I generally enjoy Boddington's articles but I lost a great deal of respect for him when he wrote an article one time about how great Simmons scopes were. The only one I've ever owned was a piece of crap.

Wapi-T, I read the excerpts you posted and don't find much wrong with what he wrote in that regard. As has been noted, he never said he used the .33's in countries that don't allow them. I also don't find him to be "preachy" by simply stating his personal preferences.

LETS LIGHTEN UP GUYS!
I think its a very good thing that this conversation didnot happen face to face. If it had, It might be soft talkin'-slow walkin' time. I spent some time in Alaska and one of the men working for me is a pretty good example of all of us. This individual had never hunted before coming to the territory of Alaska, but with hunting being so prevalent there he gave it a try. One weekend he borrowed a Winchester M-94, bought A BOX of ammo and went caribou hunting. He had never fired the rifle and didn't sight it in. On Monday he couldn't wait to tell us about the Boone & Crockett bull he'd taken at 250 yards with the .30-30.
I know he took the bull, I saw it. Other than that, who knows. I doubt that a visit from God could have convinced him that the .30-30 and the iron sighted M-94 wasn't the best caribou rig in the world. After all, he had the proof. I'm sure each and everyone of us has done exactly the same thing. I KNOW I have. I've been an amateur ballistain for about forty years. I've played with many different cartridges, makes and actions and at this point I'm sure of only one thing, the more I learn the less I know. Someone made mention that there were no bad cartridges, they're just used wrong. I'll go along with that. If anyone knows of a rifle, cartridge and bullet that is properly placed that kills deader than dead, please let me know what it is. I'd like to try it. Good luck all.

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BigBob

Why does this thread keep appearing?

I will take to task the original remark: "...my PERSONAL minimum for elk" [emphasis added].

Where do you find a general statement about what is appropriate? Where do you observe an arrogant assertion about the inferior capabilities of others? It is a plain observation. It MIGHT imply either of the above, but it is equally probable (in fact much more likely) that it simply means that Mr. Boddington knows his own limitations and that is where he draws the line on elk.

The same can be said about 200 grain bullets in .338 caliber. Boddington said they were not the "best choice" and, as a .340 Wby user, I don't find any argument with that statement even though it is clearly an opinion. 225 grains is better. 210 grains is better. Any arguments with that?

I won't even comment on the rest of the ranting, but what I don't fathom is why a man can be damned for being a fence rider on the one hand and then doubly damned when he gives a definite opinion. To my way of thinking that shows its not a question of what he's saying at all. Its something altogether different.

Love him or despise him as you please but at least be consistent and honest. Some people make you mad just to look at them. I think Boddington does that to some people. I don't know who's fault it is and I leave it to your judgment whether evil is in the eye or the thing beheld. Just don't invent some convoluted and absurd justification for why you think he's a jerk. Better still, get over it. The world is teeming with people that nobody would deny was a grade A bastard, but life is short folks.

A man gains favor in my eyes,by making a stance. A stance is personal opinion and that is subjective,I can readily accept that.

My troubles lie in saying nothing(or worse) in regards to equipment,that is a known POS..............