I finally got around to the current issue of Field & Stream. Had a great story titled "The Caribou People" but what really caught my attention was a sidebar in a story on deer hunting.

Pat Willis, owner of Buck Country Outfitters, is quoted as saying he is through working with the outdoor industry (outdoor communicators). "There are too many arrogant crybabies who demand special treatment."

He continues on to say he has given away free hunts in exchange for publicity only to have his guest leave after a day or two when the action was slow, leaving him with an unsold hunt and no exposure.

He even claims one hunter (outdoor communicator) said he would ruin him as guide if he didn't kill a big buck.

It would be wonderful if outdoor writer communicators would tell us in each video or story how much they or their sponsors paid for the hunt, or if they indeed got it for free.

Pretty sad state of affairs...

Just going by what you have said, I would steer clear of Pat Willis.

I have seen some "outfitters corner" sidebars that had the same tone. Maybe it is the same guy?

Anyway, it sure seems a lot of outfitters are blowhards.....

While not all outfitters/guides are blowhards, some are. Conversely, while not all Outdoor Writers/Communicators are cry babies, some are.

I have been approached by a few, that want a hunt either free or at a really reduced price, and they always want to use their "set" group of people, most of whom will also be hunting for free or at the reduced price.

Did one hunt that way about 3 maybe 4 years ago, no article was ever written. Maybe the writer has not had a call for an article about hunting javelina that ain't his fault, but it has made me less than open about trying to accommodate such people in the future.

Maybe the outfitter is exaggerating, maybe not, I have not read the article, but to blanket shoot guides/outfitters as blowhards while acting like the Outdoor Communicators/Writes are all first class citizens is not real accurate either.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
but to blanket shoot guides/outfitters as blowhards........ is not real accurate either.

Never said "all"

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
Anyway, it sure seems a lot of outfitters are blowhards.....

I respect a lot of booking agents/outfitters/guides and PHs, but it just seems that there a always a few loud-mouthed, blow-hard outfitters who can't wait to whine about their clients.

quote:

I respect a lot of booking agents/outfitters/guides and PHs, but it just seems that there a always a few loud-mouthed, blow-hard outfitters who can't wait to whine about their clients.

No arguement there, but how many hunters, especially the media types are ready to crusify outfitters/guides that don't bend over sideways kissing their asses on hunts.

Guides and Outfitters are not guiltless in this scenario, but how many celebrity wanna-bes are out there trying to make a name for themselves, that use their status(?) to do bargain basement hunts, that will never see the light of day in print or on the television.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
He continues on to say he has given away free hunts in exchange for publicity only to have his guest leave after a day or two when the action was slow, leaving him with an unsold hunt and no exposure. ...

He should write that off as an Education Expense.

We had the Gun Rag Hacks come Hunt with us too. Some were as nice a people as you would ever want to meet and some were told to leave and not to come back or even bother calling. Just like the rest of the population, some good and some worthless.

We NEVER gave a reduced Rate nor a Free Hunt to any of them. And it was "requested" that our operations were not mentioned by name. We had enough Hunters by word-of-mouth without needing nor wanting any more.

Outfitters, Rag Hacks and everyone else should do whatever they want though. We operated the way "we" wanted to.

I don't know Pat Willis and certainly am not going to hunt with his outfit, but it certainly sounds like he has a legitimate gripe to me. I don't see anything wrong with what he said at all.

I don't know many people who like getting jerked around or losing money because of prima donnas, maybe some do but I kind of admire the ones who say it outloud.

This isn't new. It dates back to the hunting/fishing mags and outdoor editors with the local newspapers.
I won't tar ALL of them with the same brush but MOST of the ones I've met were pretty egotistical, self centered people. One of their favorite tricks was to write about how their guide was a real dumby and THEY had to tell him where to go and how to catch fish/game. That is the ones that admitted to having a guide. Most of them preferred to write as if they had suddenly dropped down on the lake and without any help preceeded to fill a boat with lunkers. One of the outdoors writers, when I lived in Memphis, would call up a boat camp, get a fishing report, and then write up a long column as if he'd spent the day on the lake. (the day was actually spend in a motel with a lady of easy virtue and a bottle of whiskey)

The solution is simple; Name names and publish a list of good guys and bad guys.

I think another answer would be good.

Any hunting show or article should be compelled to list what they actually paid, any payment in kind payments that were involved, and any business arrangements that the author and his family have with the hunt provider.

At one time AAW had said that the government was going to require this as part of the IRS/truth in advertising laws, but it seems that has not come to pass. Too bad, as that would stop a lot of this BS.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I think another answer would be good.

Any hunting show or article should be compelled to list what they actually paid, any payment in kind payments that were involved, and any business arrangements that the author and his family have with the hunt provider.

At one time AAW had said that the government was going to require this as part of the IRS/truth in advertising laws, but it seems that has not come to pass. Too bad, as that would stop a lot of this BS.

Actually CR, this is the law. Unfortunately, it seems to be widely ignored. I have spoken of this rule many times on AR, and we all know many writers and video hosts are members. It is interesting, but not surprising, that none have commented on this rule.

For those who are interested, here is a link:

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/10/endortest.shtm

And here is a paragraph from this rule:

Celebrity endorsers also are addressed in the revised Guides. While the 1980 Guides did not explicitly state that endorsers as well as advertisers could be liable under the FTC Act for statements they make in an endorsement, the revised Guides reflect Commission case law and clearly state that both advertisers and endorsers may be liable for false or unsubstantiated claims made in an endorsement – or for failure to disclose material connections between the advertiser and endorsers. The revised Guides also make it clear that celebrities have a duty to disclose their relationships with advertisers when making endorsements outside the context of traditional ads, such as on talk shows or in social media.

Looks pretty clear to me: if you are endorsing a product outside of a traditional ad, you must state your relationship with the company you are endorsing.

I think the "industry" is a lot of what is wrong with hunting today.

I actually agree with Hot Core, if you are running a good operation, you do not need the writers, especially the ego laden prima donna's.

I'll chime in with my firsthand experience. We are what I would consider a small outfitting business on the family ranch. When I say family it is exactly that. My mom does the cooking as well as guiding and the other guides are my dad and my brothers and I. The clients stay right in the house with us. Anyway we have been technically taking paying clients for around 20 years but decided to step it up to help supplement the ranch income. The first big push we did was mom went to the Harrisburg Pennsylvania sports show. We got several clients from that and fortunately most of them became repeat clients and actually friends and just like family. Truthfully most of them kept coming back until they were actually too old to keep hunting. One kickback was they wanted to keep the place to themselves and wouldn't tell very many other people of where they were going. The next decision was how to recruit more clients but we didn't have a lot to spend on advertising. That's when I noticed that these hunting shows were plugging outfitter names on their show was so I thought we might try that and fortunately it worked. Yes we did give the hunts away free in exchange for advertising. We did this for a couple years and once again have a new wave of repeat clients that keep coming back. Sure we have a couple openings every year but at the same time with the small outfit we have we don't want hunters every day of the season. Everything didn't always go perfect with these exchanges but differently made a positive impact for our business.

I belong to a Hound Club.We run Coons,Bears ,Cats.Had a midwestern writer ask us to tag along on a hunt.He did not have a kill or chase license and we had to deny him.He said he was going to bad mouth our club.We told him go a head .We had the written signed letter he wrote to request this.What a POS!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
I don't know Pat Willis and certainly am not going to hunt with his outfit, but it certainly sounds like he has a legitimate gripe to me. I don't see anything wrong with what he said at all.

I don't know many people who like getting jerked around or losing money because of prima donnas, maybe some do but I kind of admire the ones who say it outloud.

Frankly If I were a guide and some outdoor writer came to me not only for a reduced price (or free) hunt in exchange for exposure and then went on to threaten me with being ruined as a guide if he didn't kill a big buck?

I own both a shovel and a .45 and while I'm not particularly afraid of using either one
at minimum the SOB would be on the receiving end of the beating of his life ON-THE-SPOT

And after delivering that beating I'd certainly consider the 45 and the shovel for when I was done (or too bored to continue)

As I have a dimmer view of extortionists than just about any other kind of person except Congressmen, child molestors, Senators, rapists or Leftist Journalists, etc...

So I see nothing at all wrong about the comments made by that guide.

AD

Too bad that "impatience & selfishness" aren't limited to the non-hunting/shooting/outdoors people!

friar

As long as you pamper those in the writing industry, they will have higher and higher expectations for you to fulfill...and eventually it turns to arrogance. We are there now.