Out here in Washington state, it seems that the department is run by people who are well-under qualified and the biologists, by personal experience, are people are the biggest nut eating, left winged, "Awareness" pushers you've ever seen and it seems that they have no idea how the game operate in this state. And out of all the enforcement guys I've met, I've liked 2 and luckily on of those is in charge and the other is from S. Africa.

I trust them!

To Be Dickheads

To Be Tree Huggers

To Be out for getting their next promotion at the public's expense.....

To screw up game management, because being a good democRAT is more important than game management...

I Don't Trust them for anything positive.....

seafire

The Kalifornia DFG sucks bigtime!

A buddy and myself were hunting caribou and moose above the Arctic Circle. We were hunting from a drop camp along the Seliwek River. This was expensive, and we were hoping for a wilderness experience with peace and quit.

BUT, the friggin Alaskan fish cops were flying over ever day, circling low and landing to inspect every dead animal. They weren’t happy unless you took every last shred of meat from the carcass. The Alaskan G&F ruined the trip, because I got so angry with these a**holes buzzing us everyday. It felt like LAX. It became so frustrating, we quit hunting moose and prayed for this hell to end.

I’ll never waste money like that again in Alaska. Everywhere you went somebody wanted to get PAID big bucks for doing very little. Moreover, shooting the caribou was so easy, it was like shooting cattle in a pin - they were so stupid – even using a bow & arrow would be only marginally challenging.

I spent 32 years as a conservation officer, Regional Biologist, Regional Wildlife Manager and Wildlife Research Biologist in a western state. I have been retired from that agency for 5 years so I can speak with the knowledge of an insider.

It has always amazed and saddened me that so many hunters have such negative opinions of our state wildlife agency and the work they do. The vast majority of hunters really want to see more wildlife and better hunting oppurtunities. Unfortunately there is no common agreement among hunters how that should be done. Bow hunters and rifle hunters argue over who should get the most hunting days and the greater share of the harvestable surplus. Hunters want a deer in the bag every year but want trophy quality animals. These two desires are usually mutually exclusive because to satisfy all hunters to get a buck the herds have to be harvested at a level that severly restricts the number of old deer (trophy bucks) in the population. When harvest is restricted and elk populations grow the local ranchers complain that the elk are eating them out of house and home and complain to the politicians. The politicians control the purse strings and insist that elk populations be reduced. When the elk populations are reduced to control depredations then the hunters compalin to the politicians that the there aren't enough elk. The politicians then get after the sgency to increase the elk numbers. I have found that no matter what decision we would make on a season structure we would pee-O at least half the number of hunters and ranchers. Everyone has there own idea on how the game should be managed.

I have also found that state wildlife agencies are made up of some of the most dedicated government employees to be found anywhere. They treat there jobs not as jobs but as their vocation. Most could make much more money in private business but don't. That is not to say that they are perfect. They have the same faults as the rest of us because they are human beings. Some are hard headed, opinionated and sometimes short tempered. But to a man all I have known have had the good of the wildlife resources foremost in their minds.

Next time your mad at the state DNR visit with one and listen carefuly why the game is being managed the way it is. If you approach the conversation with an open mind, you may walk away with a better understanding of why things are done as they are.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
They weren’t happy unless you took every last shred of meat from the carcass.

That is what is expected. To do less is wanton waste. If you don't salvage the meat, don't hunt in Alaska.

I did my homework and figured an overall cost of $4000.00, including a significant amount for unexpected expenses. The trip ended up costing $7000.00 - once you added in all the price gouging. Once the locals had you on site in Alaska, you were at their mercy. They knew it and took advantage of it. I got fleeced, and it won’t happen again!

In summary, if you’re planning a hunting trip to Alaska, be certain to find a place where the fish cops are not going to 1) harass you by buzzing you and your camp everyday, 2) check your licenses daily and do necropsies on all your game carcasses, 3) prevent you from taking your meat home because of exorbitant freight charges by Alaska Airlines, and 4) price gouge at every opportunity – for example, “Oh, we just raised our rates and your 50# over weight, that’ll be an additional $300.00 air faire.†You have no choice but to pay – through the nose. Then all your hard work and money goes to FEEDING ESKIMO DOGS. I couldn't afford to ship the meat home, and I had to donate it the the local native Americans, who told me they were going to feed it to their dogs.

I post this experience, because hunters from the Lower 48 need to know what happens in Alaska. Not to worry, I'm not planning to go back – who need this sh*t.

Besides, for $7000.00 I can buy two fabulous wilderness hunts in the lower 48 – and, I get to KEEP my game meat.

Good post 465H&H. I know several game wardens and all are some of the most dedicated, overworked, underpaid, unappreciated, professionals I know. You're right, they treat their professions not as jobs, but as lifestyles.

MG

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
I post this experience, because hunters from the Lower 48 need to know what happens in Alaska.

What happens in Alaska is that you are expected to salvage all edible meat from the animal you kill, and take it home with you. If you have a problem with that, stay home.

quote:

Not to worry, I'm not planning to go back – who need this sh*t

We're not worried...no one here will miss you.

quote:

Besides, for $7000.00 I can buy two fabulous wilderness hunts in the lower 48 – and, I get to KEEP my game meat.

No one took your meat away from you. You failed to adequately plan for bringing your meat home, and you dumped it off with someone else.

It is not cheap to hunt in Alaska, especially for non-residents who aren't familiar with the ins-and-outs of planning hunt logistics here. In all though, Alaskans welcome sportsmen from everywhere else, especially those who share our respect for the land and the animals we hunt.

There is no way, however, that an unguided caribou hunt cost you $7k unless you foolishly blundered into the whole situation with ZERO preparation. A fool and his money...(fool)...

Dear Mr. "Wilderness-type" DavidAk, everytime you post ("open your mouth"), you just prove my point by exposing your BAD ATTITUDE - an attitude that is obviously well-developed in some Alaskans.

Unfortunately, when I went to Alaska I ran into a group of your type, and that's hard to plan for. Why? Because where I come from, people look out for one another and don't take advantage of newbies. Yes, I admit I was naive, but I never dreamed I'd be buzzed daily by fish cops, long before I even saw a wild critter. There's no need for that sh*t, nor to get price gouged, just because I was a long way from home and vulnerable.

By posting (sharing) my experience here, other potential nonresident hunters will know to avoid people like you and be certain they hunt areas with nice people with decent attitudes. Yes, I'm glad you're in Alaska - please stay there with your like-minded buddies. (Hey, go pat a griz on the head, maybe you'll get a big kiss - LOL.)

No need to blame Alaska or it's residents for your own stupidity.

Wanton waste of game meat is something we take seriously...don't expect anyone to embrace your type up here.

It's a shame your meat was fed to the dogs. If you had planned better, that wouldn't have been necessary.

Of course, everyone is to blame for that...except you.

If you wanna talk shit about the state I live in, expect to get called on it.

Diverting the conversation from your mistruths to my 'attitude' was probably your best move.

Do I trust them? Ah Hell no.
In TX a degree is required in either wildlife biology or criminal justice but seldom have I seen a degree make up for lack intellegence.

Most of the field wardens in TN are pretty decent folks. But the higher ups have shit for brains. Coyotes are starting to be a big problem here, I killed four from the same deer stand this last season. Decided to get after them hard on my place. State regs say you can not use a centerfire under .243 during any deer season. I talked to the West Regional Manager about maybe getting this law changed, as bow season runs a long time here, (I have a Encore .223 that is a one holer, that is illegal to use) his response was to put out hot dogs laced with poison. Honest to God this is what the jerk said. On the other hand, the local warden came out and helped get me started in learning how to hunt them, on his own time. Like any other service that totes weapons, some are badge heavy assholes, but most are decent.

In Texas we have a unique situation due to most of the land being privately owned. You can ask for assistance from the local biologist to make harvest and habitat improvement recommendations. They have always been more than helpful to me. You do not have to follow these recommendations if you don't want to. We are very fortunate to have such assistance.

We also have a lot of psudo biologist. To get their assistance you only need to go to the local beer joint. There you can find out just how goddam dumb that biologist with a degree and sometimes 20 or 30 years of experince is. These drunken rednecks know how to manage game. They manage it by shooting off public roads, often at night, trespassing on private property, and various other methods. The same psudo biologist will also have stories to tell about the S.O.B. game warden who doesn't understand their mangagement philosophy.

I would not book a hunt with any outfitter in Texas that does not have a good working relationship with a public or private biologist. The public biologist cannot give out negative information about an outfitter so if you talk to one you will need to "read between the lines."

M16!



465H&H

They're not perfect, but I think Arizona's G&F Dept. does a pretty good job. And I think most people here have a decent opinion of the average game warden.

M16 - that's a heck of an essay - nicely put.

Wardens do not, biologists make. Most have no understanding of the details of population dynamics and hence are pretty much irrelevant to management decisions. That said, some are good, some are bad but that's true of any group of individuals. Biologists, however, they are not, nor are they supposed to be.

Brent

It is interesting that the majority of the posts from Texas (with one exception) trust and like our game wardens.

I have a huge amount of respect for our wardens. I believe they deserve a raise, they deserve more time off, and we need to double the amount that we currently have. Lets raise the hunting license cost by $10-$15 and give these guys a hand.

I have met some Texas game wardens that were absolute Grade A - A. Holes. But I will not judge the lot by the actions of a few.

I have become good friends with the Warden in my county. He would write me a ticket as if we had never met if I ever stepped over the line. I would expect him to, that is his job and there is no room for "warnings" when it comes to protecting the public resourse of Wildlife.

God bless the Texas Game wardens.

465H&H-

Well said, friend.

It is so easy to sit back and lob bombs at the game Depts. without knowing half of the inputs that necessarily go into the decisions that they need to make every day. Both the biologists and wardens are severly underpaid and competition for those jobs (in MT at least) is extremely fierce. You get dedicated, skilled, and zealous people in those positions most of the time. A Masters degree is entry level for a MT biologist job- 8 years of college with field work minimum (most have prior work experience) for which you can expect to make around 35k per year. Wildlife populations are doing exceptionally well here in the West, all things considered. Those guys deserve your thanks and thoughtful suggestions.

The politicians at the top of the Depts. can force difficult conditions on on Dept staff but that is not the biologists or warden's fault. Finally, everyone can come up with an example of bad behavior on the part of an agency employee and then condemn the whole outfit. Shame on those that do this. That's the strategy the antis have been using against hunting and trapping community for years, highlight slob behaviour and then use it to paint all sportsmen with the same brush. We need to be above that.

MT wardens.

Let's see the guy down in Broadus helped me load my wife's giant mule deer buck into the back of my pick-up, but not until after he took pictures of her and the buck for the FWP women in hunting program. Over the years he has been helpful, professional and generally a credit to Montana in every way. So, I might ad has every warden I've met or delt with over the years both as a private party and as an outfitter.

The biologists I have met in the field are great, you cant' get them to shut up about fish, game whatever. I know the fishery biologist for the Yellowstone and he is a real professional, big time hunter and gun nut too.

Further up the food chain, well, when polital considerations are involved stuff starts to get strange and people can turn into real jerks.

Problems? You bet, the problems often start with the hunters and anglers not knowing what they want and various turf wars, fly fishing vs. bait, bow vs. rifle.

The worst crap comes from the legislature and the courts where you have competeing interests with ranchers (with leases to outfitters) vs. ranchers (without leases), eco-extremeists vs. just about everyone, resort delevopers vs. outdoor recreationists, the list seems endless.

The wardens and biologists are only at the end of what many times turns out to be a sewer pipe. They have to deal with the public and unfortunately get heat for "just doing their job".

If you don't like game and fish policies, contact the legislature, join SCI or TU, get involved. Bitching about the warden is not going to solve any problem you think you might have.

"We have met the enemy," Pogo said, "and he is us."

HM: BRAVO!

IV

Here in AK, the biologists (both State and Fed, because we have dual management of Fish and Game) tend to be pretty good folk, both in their biological/ecological areas of expertise and as human beings. Unlike where The magyar hails from, the wardens are State Troopers, and like most cops, are certain that you are guilty of something until you can prove your innocence. Where the wicket quickly gets sticky is in the political realm. The State, understandably enough, would like to get back to full State management authority and the Feds want to see Title VIII of ANILCA competently implemented. When the political squabbles win out, both the wildlife and the hunter loses.

I think we could use more wardens and fewer biologists! I think there are still less than 50 wardens for the entire state of Wy. 10th largest state and not many wardens. Violators and violations can run rampant.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HunterMontana:
MT wardens.

Let's see the guy down in Broadus helped me load my wife's giant mule deer buck into the back of my pick-up, but not until after he took pictures of her and the buck for the FWP women in hunting program. Over the years he has been helpful, professional and generally a credit to Montana in every way. So, I might ad has every warden I've met or delt with over the years both as a private party and as an outfitter.

The biologists I have met in the field are great, you cant' get them to shut up about fish, game whatever. I know the fishery biologist for the Yellowstone and he is a real professional, big time hunter and gun nut too.

QUOTE]

What he said... Last fall, I met the new warden for the area north of Gillette up near the Montana state line. He was young and new to the area, but really seemed to have his shit together, and was just a cool guy. My wife thought he was cute, and he had a cool dog. We spent quite a bit of time BSing about hunting and guns and especially handguns. He was packing a very cool 1911 pistol and enjoyed talking about it, which tells me he's a gun nut like me. He seemed to really love his job. The poor guy looked tired, and admitted that during the month of October sleep, family time, and R&R do not exist. He, and other field level people have every ounce of my respect, and I look forward to visiting with them in the field.

Colorado is a joke!

I have no problems with the wardens, it is the DOW as a whole that sucks!

We have a shortage of mulies yet they still issue doe tags.

They lie to the whole country and tell them how overpopulated the elk herds are just as a marketing gimick to lure in out of state hunters.

They would not back the trappers and let trapping get banned in 1996. Coincidentally (yeah right) this was around the time they decided to transplant lynx to the state.

They increased the deer season from like 12 days to 26 days and blamed the drastic dive in deer numbers on drought!

They support Ranching for Wildlife which allows private landowners lax seasons (so they can cash in on outfitting) in return for letting some sucker hunt the worst part of the ranch.

The list goes on and on...

M16-
Well said...and I agree wholeheartedly.

Much has changed in TX the last couple of decades when it comes to knowledge of proper management practices -- and what really works. The TPWD and wardens seem to have an excellent grasp on all pertinent aspects and are willing to share their knowledge and experiences.

As good as we have it, though, it hasn't always been that way.