Do you trust the Fish and Game of your State for there educated tatics and behavior?
I do not for several reasons that I won't get into now.Don't get me wrong..There are some good ones out there..Just because you have a Degree does not make you the God of the forest.Not many pay any attention to the people like from Alaska that still live off the land and have seen in real terms the way things really are.

Jayco

Many state G&F departments are fettered by politics and state government. Moreover, these guys are few in number and not well paid. A great deal of pouching and other game violations go totally undetected.

No, I do not. Not Oregon's DF&W.

Everytime you get one of the ODF&W guys at a meeting, you hear the same old stuff about what a great job they're doing, and yet there are far fewer elk and mule deer, and far fewer opportunities to hunt them than there were when I was starting out over thirty years ago.

If the ODF&W cowboys managed investment portfolios, they'd be fired -- every mother's son of 'em -- after about the third stanza of "what a great job we're doing". They'd be tellin' their story walkin' as far as I'm concerned........

AD

Allen-Check this out and you probaly already new.Just a very short part of it...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

July 11, 2005

No agreement on wolf plan

By Niki Sullivan
The Associated Press

SALEM - Wolves will come to Oregon, like it or not. But a state law spelling out what ranchers can do to protect their livestock from wolves - an endangered species - will probably have to wait at least two years
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Welcome to the real world....

Jayco

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
No, I do not. Not Oregon's DF&W.

Everytime you get one of the ODF&W guys at a meeting, you hear the same old stuff about what a great job they're doing, and yet there are far fewer elk and mule deer, and far fewer opportunities to hunt them than there were when I was starting out over thirty years ago.

If the ODF&W cowboys managed investment portfolios, they'd be fired -- every mother's son of 'em -- after about the third stanza of "what a great job we're doing". They'd be tellin' their story walkin' as far as I'm concerned........

AD

Allen, not to mention the "draw point" scandal and the selling of hunts by some of the staff a couple of years ago...

Niiiiice...

quote:

Originally posted by jaycocreek:
Allen-Check this out and you probaly already new.Just a very short part of it...
------------

July 11, 2005

No agreement on wolf plan

By Niki Sullivan
The Associated Press

SALEM - Wolves will come to Oregon, like it or not. But a state law spelling out what ranchers can do to protect their livestock from wolves - an endangered species - will probably have to wait at least two years
------------------------------

Welcome to the real world....

Jayco

The 3-S rule applies here.

Unfortunately, no. They try to get the right things done but they constantly get overuled by feel good, bunny hugging liberals in the state legislature and by propositions pushed by pinko voters in the Bay area and Los Angelhells.

The only one I see doing any good is Arizona, Utah, Colorado and Texas. Arizona and Utah are building water projects, limiting liscenses to improve trophy quality, and working with private land owners to ensure quality managment. Texas is all about privatly managed but not owned native game.

I will say one thing about Arizona. They cater to bow hunters. In many cases a bowhunter can buy a tag while a rifle hunter must apply.

Alaska is full of non-hunting animal rights fags, Wyoming and Montana are only concerned with non-residents dollars not managing wildlife, and California is a shit storm waiting to lose all of her vast wildlife due to mismanagement and poaching by recent Mongolian and Vietnamese immigrants.

quote:

Originally posted by jaycocreek:
Just because you have a Degree does not make you the God of the forest.
Jayco

I don't think many game wardens have degrees. Biologists, yes, but not wardens.

Here's my beef. I know of a guy who is a disabled deputy sheriff. He told me that he and his buddies would drive around all night looking for big deer. They'd radio to each other no matter where they were if one was located, and it may just "get shot."

Of course, if there was a domicile nearby and the homeowner called the cops, they were "already on the scene."

If anyone happened to drive by, then of course the sheriffs were already onscene for the "illedgal" shooting and they were taking care of it.

I've never heard of it happening, but I wouldn't put it past a warden to do the same thing. I heard someone say years ago that "many of your cops would be criminals if they weren't cops. They think they're above the law." The latter I've certainly experienced first hand.

No.

Yes, I do trust them in Texas. I may not agree with everything but overall they are great. They are more than willing to work with private landowners. We have it pretty darn good.

Not alot especially on the wolf issue.
and they do cater to the yuppies and bunny huggers.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jaycocreek:
Just because you have a Degree does not make you the God of the forest.
Jayco

"I don't think many game wardens have degrees. Biologists, yes, but not wardens."


Every game warden in Wyoming has a degree in some sort of wildlife related field.

mrhawg,

It depends on the state. In Alaska every trooper is a fish cop and vice versa. In most states excluding Wyoming it isn't a requirement.

In Wyoming they have to have a degree.

I would have to disagree with you Doc...all those would want to become a warden in Wyoming must have a bachelor's degree before even filling out a job application. Those who are too lazy to get a degree, or don't have the smarts to become a warden usually become "cops" in this state. Those dumber yet work in the jail. Funny you mention the example with deputies being dishonest...one warden told me his biggest problems are with teachers, preachers, and cops! Honestly, I can't think of too many serious hunters/anglers who didn't think about becoming a game warden at one time or another.

All the wardens I know around these parts are some of the most dedicated folks I know, working their butts off for little money, putting up with massive amounts of bureaucracy and have to put up with incredibly stupid people on a daily basis. I'm sure that there are a few bad apples out there, but in my experience they have all been very professional...at least in Wyoming anyhow.

MG

As far as I'm concerned, they're almost entirely a bunch of gutless, petty, micromanaging bureaucrats who think it's their job to make things as difficult and discouraging as possible for hunters. I think the great poacher Claude Dallas said it best.

Come on Guys, be real and be fair! Without G&F departments there would be no game and/or the only hunting would be for rich land owners - like it is in Europe. We need to get behind our G&F departments, and help them fight off the tree huggers, who are dominating many governments. The tree-huggers are the ones who want to take our guns away so only criminals have guns. If our G&F departments are struggling to get things right, it's because the government won't let them. Remember the government controls the MONEY.

I can't speak for any states other than Wyoming, and to some extent Colorado, but from what I've seen, the people in the state agencies do indeed care most for wildlife and for sportsmen; in that order. I think they do their best for the wildlife and people even though good intentions sometimes are diluted by tree huggers and legislators with their own self interests and agendas.

I have to agree with M16.

I don't have any trouble with the game wardens in my area. One of the local game wardens has been over to my father's house a couple times for supper and discuss duck hunting. He makes a mean Mexican cornbread and is a neat guy to visit with.

As long as our gear was properly squared-away, we've never had any trouble with the game wardens in our area; other than being talked to death after they do that yearly stop-and-check.

So, yes.

Tex

I think IDFG does a great job, they do not make policy...lawmakers do, they are merely the ones who are left holding the bag when either side is unhappy, in many respects its a thankless job, no matter what is happening-- non-game, big game, predators or endangered species--somebody is upset and critical of what they do.

Obviously they care about wildlife because who in their right mind would take the lower pay and extreme criticism often dished their way?

IV

No,fish&game here in New Zealand are worthless they banned lead this season and then 2 weeks into the season they culled 3000 Canada geese from helicopters using lead shot.Have you guys in the states seen a change in bird numbers after lead was banned can you still use lead to shoot birds over land?

I mentioned on another thread that I thought the F&W in Kansas had done a pretty good job overall, I stand by that... I have met a couple of the oppossum cops that I didn't cotton too much... but I can name examples of that in lots of industries.

Mike

All too often they are "environmentalists".In addition they spend there time behind a desk and have no clue what the real world is like.All snakes are protected in NY. While in some areas the rattlesnake is extinct or very rare in other places they are not .But to the DEC they're an endangered species everywhere !

I believe that the wardens here in Montana also have to have a degree. Everybody wants to be a warden, I think it's just a way to 'cull' the herd. Vandel hit it on the nose though, these guys don't make the laws they just uphold them. Long hard hours out in the middle of nowhere for little money, I think they do a pretty good job.

No!


Ours are a bunch of Barney Fifes (SP?) w/ "Lil' Man Syndrom" and they think they know everything as well. Some of them are ok but, the sorry ones make them all look bad.

One of our leading Deer Management Bioligists thinks he knows everything about deer management and will not listen to anyone's opinions Yet, he has very little real hunting experience . If he knows everything about Deer management, why are 90%+ of our bucks that are killed only 1.5 years old???

Our tax dollars hard at work .

Good Luck!

Reloader

Trust is a funny word. I know quite a few guys in the department (used to work with them before they went over to the "Dark Side").

What I see on the bureaucrat side is good willing people, on the average, that are just punch-drunk from being hit by the bunny-huggers and the politicians. Everytime ANYTHING happens, it's Fish and Game's fault. So, they specialize in making sure NOTHING happens.

As far as the fish-cops, hey, what do you want for $15/hr? You may want Sherlock Holmes, but if you pay for Clouseau, guess what you end up with? Most of them take themselves a little to seriously, but then again, there's far too much going on for them NOT to be suspicious of everyone. JMO, Dutch.

oh yeah just about as far as I can throw a bull by its tail

quote:

Originally posted by MrHawg:
Every game warden in Wyoming has a degree in some sort of wildlife related field.

Well, this is true but it didn't use to be the norm. WY wardens have degrees (4 year) in wildlife management usually, and hopefully the trend is that all states do this now, but I'm not sure if it has always been a requirement in all states.

I base this on a discussion years ago with a junior warden in Alabama who was hired on and trained just like a police officer. He never indicated having to have a 2 or 4 year degree.

So, if I'm wrong and all states require a degree, GREAT. They should.

Another yea vote for Texas except one thing. If you mean the field people like our Game Wardens they a real great bunch of people. There may be a few exceptions but I have not run into one.

If you mean the regulatory branch that reviews permit applications for construction or other projects then its often the ususal assortment of 25 years old college grad treehugger-anti-development pricks and prickettes who think that "no" is the only safe answer they can give.

First, it's a govt. agency so probably don't need to go much farther there. Like any "good" GA, there are some good people working there that care about their jobs & do them well. Then there are the plutocrats that are in every GA, then there are a small number of guys that are just crooked. You see it in every PD, FD, DMV, etc. Probably a nec. evil, otherwise there would be some ass that would be shooting deer @ night, elk on someones private land etc.

I suppose it depends on what you mean. Do I trust that those brown-nosing, governor-appointed game commissioners are doing what's in the best interest of game rather than their "good ol' boy" buddies? Not on your life! Do I trust that most of the folks in the field stuck implementing the GC's whacky decisions have game's and hunter's best interests at heart? Yep, sure do. Most of the grunts in the NMG&F are pretty decent folks, it's their bosses and the bass-ackward system here that make the whole department worthless...

Not in NM..they are influenced by the ranchers and run things to the advantage of the ranchers, not the hunters.

No, not in Georgia. I (and all the other hunters I have talked to) think their estimation of the state deer herd is way off. They think it is higher that it really is. And they are thinking of raising the limit from 12 to 15 deer per season (only 2 bucks). Honestly, who needs 13 does in the freezer?

This is just the beginning. They are constantly changing the regulations and putting more and more restrictions on hunters. I think the problem is the higher ups, not the ones in the field.

No.

NO, I've seen in court where a warden admitted to sitting just beyond a incorrectly (by fish & Game) markied fishing water, and then giving tickets out to anyone who beleived in how the water was posted. Unfortunatly the courts think that lawenforcement can/does do no wrong and let them get awawy with this garbage.
But then who really has the time and monies to fight the injustice in court.
They take a couple hundred dollar fine to get it over with as opposed to spending thousands to get justice.
Most I've heard of who stand up get off, but few have the money.
If the fish cops had to pay the leagle fees instead of blindly spending State monies on prosecution then we'ed see some real work being done not just hassel those for minor infraction, most of which occure because States requlations have become so complicated.

No but they are better than nothing

quote:

No but they are better than nothing

We all know that human behavior must be monitored. Thus the best goverment has a system of checks and balances. So it follows that a particular department of any orgaization should be monitored.

Here in the state of CT the average person does not even know that hunting is legal or allowed. That average person also thinks that all guns are registered.

Our game wardens are now enviornmental police with more power than a state cop. You had better have your ducks in a row when meeting one of them.

On the positive side the F&G seems to by trying to buy up some land for hunting. There is very little land left here and houses are being built at a rapid rate on every piece of land everywhere. We have no national forests here so there is just about no place to go.

Without the game laws we would have little game left. Overall it's working and like all rights it needs to be protected by vigilence.

I have to say that I don't trust the propaganda machine that spews forth mis-information from Broadway Street in Denver. HOWEVER...Every Division Wildlife Manager (warden) in CO that I have met has been concerned with the wildlife, management thereof, and has listened with interest. I have worked with some of their people during an aircraft accident investigation, and they were all compassionate, competent, hard working people.

NO! Not many of the good ol boys from the old school are left. Way to many are coming from the greener side of wildlife management! And quite a crossection of personalities and life choices to boot!

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
The only one I see doing any good is Arizona, Utah, Colorado and Texas. Arizona and Utah are building water projects, limiting liscenses to improve trophy quality, and working with private land owners to ensure quality managment. .

Most of these sort of positive things that have occured in Utah in the past decade are due to SFW (Sportsmen for fish and wildlife). The way they have accomplished it is by legal recourse, and $$$$$$$.. The problem is as mentioned above, the damn politicians steal sportsmens dollars from the DWR leaving them a mammoth job with no means of accomplishing it.

If the funds that we sporsmen generate for the govt. were actually applied to wildlife managment instead of being embezled and squandered then we as sportsmen would be setting pretty well.