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what do you guys think?

Question:
is this the truth,or a veiled attempt to outlaw lead bullets?

Choices:
yes ,it's true
maybe
probably not
no way
its a conspiracy

 

it looks like its in the lungs to me.I usually dont eat those,myself.

I that were true then I would have surely died by now and I'm almost 74 years old and have been eating deer, elk, and all kinds of African animals all my life..

It amazes me how gullible the American public is, including our nations leaders with such crap as "global warming", lead contamination, and no drilling in that big nasty sink hole swamp (Anwar) in Alaska, that they call prime country and display beautiful mountains!! NOT! What a legacy we are leaving for our youth, a legacy of lies.

You know, why don't they do a study lead level in people who eat game? Could cross correlate for hunting methods, butchering, bullet types, etc...

I got a feeling why. Because they'd not find any discernible difference in lead levels and their end run to ban bullets and hunting would evaporate.

-Steve

quote:

I that were true then I would have surely died by now and I'm almost 74 years old and have been eating deer, elk, and all kinds of African animals all my life..

An elevated lead level does not necessarily kill an individual. Sometimes it merely affects one's brain and causes such person to exaggerate, fudge on numbers and make ludicrous claims. -TONY

Who cares?

quote:

Originally posted by Outdoor Writer:

An elevated lead level does not necessarily kill an individual. Sometimes it merely affects one's brain and causes such person to exaggerate, fudge on numbers and make ludicrous claims. -TONY

quote:

Originally posted by Outdoor Writer:

quote:

I that were true then I would have surely died by now and I'm almost 74 years old and have been eating deer, elk, and all kinds of African animals all my life..

An elevated lead level does not necessarily kill an individual. Sometimes it merely affects one's brain and causes such person to exaggerate, fudge on numbers and make ludicrous claims. -TONY

Let me see, Tony, how does your comment about "fudge numbers and make ludicrous claims" relate to Ray??? Hmm, I'll have to think about that one for a while....

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by Outdoor Writer:
An elevated lead level does not necessarily kill an individual. Sometimes it merely affects one's brain and causes such person to exaggerate, fudge on numbers and make ludicrous claims. -TONY

I think this applies to many on the political forum .

Ken....

This explains why I can't seem to lose weight!

Alan

A big part of this is American's subscription to the "light bullet at high velocity" theory. Frangible varmit-type bullets have no place hunting big game but are used by many. The spectacular kills on deer sized animals fuels their beleif. An article in Magnum magazine several years ago examined this same issue although they were more concerned with meat damage than lead fragments. It showed clearly that the "heavy bullet at moderate velocity" theory is a real winner in less meat damage with just as reliable effectiveness. One can only assume the lessened meat damage demonstrated there in, would also equate to fewer fragments (which cause much of said damage). In short, this is not a bullet problem it is a philosophy problem and we as a group (Americans) largely subscribe to a philosophy that promotes the resultant problem and hence threatens our best tool, the lead bullet!

These are the links to the actual study done by the MN DNR. BTW, the regular rifle bullets were all 150 gr. and fired out of a .308. They also tested shotgun slugs and muzzleloader bullets.

Written Chart

Multimedia Presentation

There may be a small modicume of truth to it. I mean many of us that where raised eating wild game and upland birds. Water foul be fore steel sshoot for that matter. Have almost suradly ingested lead. But no one I know is any worse for the practice of eating wild game killed with lead projectils.
In fact I would say that eating wild game with a very slight amount of lead in it is probably still alot healthier than eating hormone filled domestic meats and birds.
JMHO
MM

quote:

Originally posted by oupa:
In short, this is not a bullet problem it is a philosophy problem and we as a group (Americans) largely subscribe to a philosophy that promotes the resultant problem and hence threatens our best tool, the lead bullet!

Best answer yet. Old timers shot a deer through the heart with lead bullets and trailed it to where it died. No lead contamination and would eat right up to the hole. Now we have lost our tracking skills unless it's splotches of blood and have to have the bang/flop, in fact take great pride in it as evidence of our hunting prowess. We justify the departure from reason with terms like "quick humane kills" and "respect for the animal" when in fact wasting meat due to massive tissue destruction accomplishes neither of these.

The bullets I mainly use (Sierra Gamekings) are moderate in their expansion, some would say excessive. I may rethink. We always look at weight retention. Where are the non-retained bullet parts going?

I don't believe ingested lead harms humans, or any other animal for that matter but there are unreasonable people in the world who will use lead contamination to advance their agendas (banning hunting/fishng/shooting/etc.).

Choose your poison.

Alan

quote:

Originally posted by Alan R. McDaniel, Jr.:

I don't believe ingested lead harms humans, or any other animal for that matter but there are unreasonable people in the world who will use lead contamination to advance their agendas (banning hunting/fishng/shooting/etc.).

Choose your poison.

Alan

You're being facetious about ingesting lead not being harmful to humans or critters, right? -TONY

quote:

You're being facetious about ingesting lead not being harmful to humans or critters, right? -TONY

Maybe not. In theory, solid lead may pass through the digestive system quickly enough that possibly, no serious damage, if any is done. I've hunted deer for 59 years now and eaten a lot of venison not only shot by me but others as well. severteen of the deer were shot with cast lead bullets that were hard enough to fragment (shatter) if bone were hit. To add insult to injury, I do a serious amount a bullet casting all year round and have done so since I was 16 years old. Once all this fit, fuss and bother about lead starting coming to the surface, I started having my lead levels in my blood checked once a year. When you take in all those years of casting and shooting those bullets plus all the venison consumed since I was 11 years old, my lead levels check out at below what is considered normal. O just turned 70, and liek Ray, I guess we must have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. Either that's the case or all this lead is bad BS is nothing more than the antis trying to get in the back door. I choose to believe it's the latter
Now amI going to eat a bullet literally to prove my point? Hell no, but there is a lot more to this controversy than meets the eye, and I strongly suspect the dice are loaded, no pun intended.
Paul B.

Paul,

Not sure why everyone tries to relate high lead levels with only death. There are many other lesser but serious consequences.

I had a very long reply written explaining it all when our electricity burped for two secs. and rebooted my computer. I'll rerwite it tomorrow.

In the meantime, read this article I wrote several months ago for the National Shooting Sports Foundation's RANGE REPORT magazine.

Note how the baby's lead level went up.

GET THE LEAD OUT

Copyright by Tony Mandile

When the adage “get the lead out†became popular during the 1930s, it was a way to tell someone to hurry or get moving. More recently, the saying took on a literal translation when potentially dangerous lead levels showed up at an indoor shooting range in Delta Junction, Alaska.

The smallbore range, operated by the 125-member Delta Sportsman's Association (DSA), serves as the venue for the high school’s rifle team and the Delta Deadeyes – a shooting club for youngsters below high-school age.

DSA president and rifle team coach Mike Bender said they accidentally discovered the lead problem when a routine test in the spring of 2007 showed elevated levels of lead in a 1-year-old child’s blood.

Although well below the danger standard set by Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) for the work place, the infant’s higher-than-normal lead level became a concern. Finding the cause took some detective work, however.

“It just so happens that the child’s dad was a volunteer worker at our range and often cleaned the floor after a shooting session. After eliminating many possibilities, they concluded the lead problem was related to the child’s habit of chewing his dad’s shoes,†Bender said.

Subsequent blood tests for the father and a teenage son who shoots on the high school team also revealed above-average lead contamination in their systems. That prompted further testing of all those involved in activities at the DSA range. Nearly everyone, including Bender’s teenage son Ryan, showed elevated lead levels.

“Right then we knew we had a problem that needed immediate attention if we wanted to continue operating the range,†Bender said.

With all the recent recalls of consumer products, especially toys with lead paint on them, the dangers of lead poisoning has garnered plenty of media attention, thus making the public more aware of the possible health problems that include anemia, nervous system dysfunction, kidney problems, hypertension and infertility. For youngsters, even low lead levels can cause neurological damage leading to learning disabilities and short attention spans.

The lead bullets and primer compounds used at an improperly managed indoor range provides the potential for someone to either inhale lead from the air or to ingest it accidentally after handling firearms and other lead-covered items and then eating, smoking or drinking before washing one’s hands. And that lead will eventually work its way into a person’s blood stream.

The National Association of Shooting Ranges (NASR) has been at the forefront of tackling the lead contamination issue for a long time. In 1991, NASR, OSHA and the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) established an alliance to promote safe and healthful working conditions for workers in target shooting facilities.

NASR executive director Rick Patterson feels the lead danger presented by an indoor range is real but is easily prevented using proper management techniques as outlined in the NASR booklet, Airborne Lead Management & OSHA Compliance for Indoor Shooting Ranges.

“We have worked with OSHA not only to develop proper management practices but to also educate range operators,†Patterson said. “We encourage all ranges to examine their practices and address the key issues of proper ventilation and maintenance methods to avoid elevated lead levels. Our publication outlines all this and is available to any range for the asking.â€

The DSA took quick action, finding several items that likely contributed to the high lead levels.

“The first thing we did was install a retractable target system so shooters no longer had to walk downrange to change their targets. We also stopped the kids from sweeping the floor, which was a major cause of the lead dust getting into the air. They probably inhaled plenty of it, too. But even though adults took over the sweeping duty, our main goal was to eliminate it altogether. So my wife wrote up a grant request to the Friends of the NRA. They gave us $4,600, and we immediately looked at solving the floor-sweeping situation,†Bender said.

To that end, the club purchased a sophisticated Micromaticâ„¢ 14E Scrubber from a firm in Minneapolis, Minn. The $2,200, walk-behind machine puts down a metal-cutting cleaning solution, scrubs the floor with a rotary brush and immediately sucks up the dirt-laden liquid.

"I first used one of the scrubbing machines at the University of Alaska’s range in Fairbanks. So I already knew it would be a good solution for us. It picks up everything as it goes along, and by the time the operator puts his feet down behind the scrubber, the floor is almost dry,†Bender said.

An environmental assessment at the range in Oct. 2007 confirmed the scrubber was doing its job.

“When they checked the air quality, the parts per million of lead to air was well below the federal guidelines for a residential house. That’s significant, considering the circumstances and amount of lead used at an indoor shooting range compared to a home,†Bender said.

Another improvement took the form of personal hygiene habits and the products used. Everyone who uses the range must wash their hands before leaving with UniqueTek’s D-Lead® Hand Soap. As the name implies, the special cleaning agent actually provides for the safe and complete removal of lead and other heavy metals.

Bender’s club also has several improvements either in progress or planned for the future.

The Delta Junction city council awarded a $40,000 grant to DSA for upgrades to the rifle range’s ventilation system. So far, part of that grant has gone to installing two industrial exhaust fans downrange near the targets to help remove dust-laden air during shooting sessions.

“In addition to better insulation, we installed a heater that brings fresh air to the uprange side, and this summer we’re putting in an industrial size heat-recovery ventilator so we don’t have to throw so much money out into Alaska’s cold,†Bender said.

The DSA members think their effort is well worth it. Although the high-school rifle team consists of only nine teens, three of them -- Ryan Dunham Bender, Amanda Fisher and Hun Tak --competed at the Junior Olympics in Colorado Springs in April.

As Bender put it, “That’s a pretty good representation from a town with a population of only 800.â€

Lead dust and Smoke/fumes from smelting and paint are the culprits for lead poisoning. I suppose (I'm not going to pretend to know, only speculate) that the particle size has a great deal to do with a body's ability to absorb the lead into tissue.

Since the digestive tract does not break down the lead (molecularly) pieces the size of shot or bullet fragments will simply pass through the system.

I know lead poisoning is real and the effects, while sometimes fatal, are unfortunately not always. I know one fellow, in fact I bought about 300# of linotype from him, that probably had lead poisoning from years of exposure on a 24/7/365 basis. He deteriorated for a couple of years and did die.

The occasional ingestion of a minimal amount of lead is not going to cause a problem IMO.

Alan

quote:

Posted 10 October 2008 09:30 Hide Post
Lead dust and Smoke/fumes from smelting and paint are the culprits for lead poisoning. I suppose (I'm not going to pretend to know, only speculate) that the particle size has a great deal to do with a body's ability to absorb the lead into tissue.

Since the digestive tract does not break down the lead (molecularly) pieces the size of shot or bullet fragments will simply pass through the system.

I know lead poisoning is real and the effects, while sometimes fatal, are unfortunately not always. I know one fellow, in fact I bought about 300# of linotype from him, that probably had lead poisoning from years of exposure on a 24/7/365 basis. He deteriorated for a couple of years and did die.

The occasional ingestion of a minimal amount of lead is not going to cause a problem IMO.

Jesus Mary and Joseph on a piggy powered pogo stick!

Of all the stupid ass comments! Lead is toxic. Lead is always toxic. You can absorb it through your skin. You can absorb it in your gut. Size only correlates to increasing surface area so that you absorb more. If you eat lead, you will absorb lead, and it will begin to cause neurological damage no matter how little. Of course lead does not break down it is an element, it cannot break down. It combines with chlorine and sulphur with remarkable ease and is very readily absorbed by you body in the form of lead chloride or lead sulphate.

Get it! Lead inside your body does only harm. It is not a nutrient. It is a poison. You will absorb lead if you eat lead. Period done deal.

Gosh Miles. You're not the first person to think I've said or done something Stupid but you're the first one today from Minnesota. I thought I qualified my statement pretty well as not being that of an expert but of speculation and opinion. I also gave an example of someone I have known who DIED, probably with the help of lead poisoning. I wasn't advocating stirring a spoonful of lead into your morning coffee but only referring to the incidental, accidental ingestion of lead from game killed with lead shot/bullets. I understand that Lead is an element but absorption rates are are different for different sized particles.

I'll expect that you'll want to apologize for your misconception of what I said and if not I'll just take your comments for what they seem to be; the ranting of a rude, arrogant, blasphemous asshole.

Have a nice day pard.

Alan

Are there any studies which show humans actually suffering adversely from lead ingestion from eating wild game? All of my life I've been eating quail, squirrels, rabbits, and deer taken with lead based bullets. But for years there are thousands upon thousands in the same situation. There ought to be something to prove that harm is actually being caused to humans. As for me, I'm going to keep right on eating the game I take with lead based bullets.

Eating of animals raised today, such as beef, chicken, lamb, pork, etc. are much more poisonous to our human systems than wild game shot with lead, due to all the chemicals introduced to the animals thru the feeding systems. Check the feed at the mills if you are not a believer.

quote:

Since the digestive tract does not break down the lead (molecularly) pieces the size of shot or bullet fragments will simply pass through the system.

Do you understand that the words in that sentence are flat out wrong and that lead going through your digestive tract will poison you? Or has the lead you've been eating taken it's toll on your brain?

quote:

Eating of animals raised today, such as beef, chicken, lamb, pork, etc. are much more poisonous to our human systems than wild game shot with lead, due to all the chemicals introduced to the animals thru the feeding systems. Check the feed at the mills if you are not a believer.

While you may get trace levels of antibiotics and you may very well wind up sensitized to those antibiotics, you are not being "poisoned" by animals you eat. There will be trace levels of many elements in your meat. There always has been. It's necessary to the life of the animal. The trace elements in your meat are at very much lower levels and the equivocation of those levels with that posed by the consumption of lead particles is many orders of magnitude wrong.

Is it an issue, yes. Is it a major issue, NO. Lead, like any other metal will, in a normal person, pass through the urine in time. Once the level of lead is elevated, it can be lowered again through many methods. Proper diet is the first. There are other methods as well, should you need to remove the lead faster, like from the liver.

My doctor related it to me like drinking or smoking pot. Once you get away from it, your blood levels will go back to normal with time. You get into trouble whith long term exposure and heavy doses. An occaisional drink will not have a negative effect, but over doing it will. There comes a point where the body will not release it any further.

NONE of this comes from hunting or eating game animals that have been shot with lead bullets, unless you chew on it every day like the baby in Tony's atricle did. I bet his lead levels went back to normal, didn't they Tony? Mine did after loading and shooting thousands of rounds of lead 9mm in IPSC competition and taking a break.

Miles, the amount of lead that will be absorbed from one or two or ten lead shot for the short time it is in a persons digestive tract will (here comes qualification) be minimal IMO.

Obviously, every effort should be made by hunters and fishermen and shooters to reduce the amount of lead they ingest in their food. I believe they do this because they don't want to eat lead, and a lead pellet will break a tooth. Not as fast as a steel pellet will but it could be broken none-the-less.

I Believe (qualifying statement again) that the danger of lead poisoning by the average hunter handling and ingesting lead is minimal. I believe (qualifying statement again) that you may (another qualifying statement) have another agenda here in this lead discussion and until you prove me wrong I'll continue to believe you are a pompous, rude, arrogant, blasphemous asshole.

Pompous, rude, arrogant, blasphemous assholes take more of a toll on my brain than lead ever did or will.

Try not to take it personal.

Alan

A pompous rude and arrogant asshole I may well be.

My agenda is simple: Correct ignorant fools dispensing patently dangerous opinions.

I would do the same thing were you to post a load recipe as unequivocally dangerous as your opinion about lead ingestion.

You want to eat lead go forth and do so with gusto and abandon. Tell people you don't believe it will hurt them and you gotta expect someone to stand up and say you're wrong to protect them from your ignorance or you're even more foolish than it takes to eat the lead.

I have not taken this personally. Debating such a simple matter with you gives me no pleasure. The facts are what I presented. You put lead in your digestive tract and you will very quickly convert some of it into lead chloride and lead hydrochloride and it will poison you. The only question is the degree.

You are ignorant because you do not understand the basic chemistry of how this works. You are a fool for believing that you can ingest lead with any degree of impunity.

as i have seen so often in the past, atkinson hit the nail on the head. thanks ray!

Well Miles, I do understand Chemistry but I'm not sure you understand the English language. I do think you are taking it personally because quiet obviously there are others who have espoused the same opinion as myself and yet they are not being called Stupid, Ignorant and a Fool by you. I am none of those BTW, at least not beyond the time and effort I have spent trying to educate you in civil conversation. You have chosen only me upon whom to heap your personal objections to my OPINION.

I'm not advocating that anyone eat lead but will say again, "I Believe that the danger of lead poisoning by the average hunter handling and ingesting lead is minimal" and furthermore with that in mind, "I don't believe ingested lead harms humans, or any other animal for that matter but there are unreasonable people in the world who will use lead contamination to advance their agendas (banning hunting/fishng/shooting/etc.)".

So there you have it, my OPINION, and it won't be stifled by a

"Pompous, rude, arrogant, blasphemous asshole"

Not today, tomorrow or ever.

Alan

quote:

A pompous rude and arrogant asshole I may well be.

I agree, you sure are.
I started working with lead when I was 16 years old. I'm 70 now, and back then, there was not all the BULLSHIT about the hazards of lead. I cast my bullets under what today would be considered terrible conditions. At age 18, I was working for a local bullet casting operation part time along with my regular job. I worked at that job for 4 years in a small 10x10 foot unventilated room along with a couple of other co-workers, ecah of us working with two 20 pound pots apiece. Even after I left that job, I continued to cast bullets under deplorable condition according to today's way of thinking. A few years back I decided to start having my blood lead levels checked annually. One would think that after 54 years of working with lead, probably 50 of those years under poor unventilated conditions, and befor 1975 when I quit smoking, smoking while casting, eating and drinking that I would be so full of lead that if I went swimming I'd sink like a rock. Well the fact of the matter is the lead levels are not only below what is considered normal, but lower than the newer current standard now considered normal. I've probably ingested some minor amounts of lead from game that I've shot as well and I still think that it passes through doing very little damage in the short time it's in my body.
So, do I believe lead is toxic? Of course I do, but I also think that under normal circumstances, the problem has been blown way the hell and gone out of proportion by certain individuals with a definite agenda.
In the time that I've been getting tested for lead, I have ben more cautious when working with it, but I damn well will not give up using lead to make my bullets, nor will I accept or believe the bullshit put out by people with certain goals to disarm me or any other shooter. Outlaw lead bullets and the cost of shooting those overpriced little pieces of copper will probably place at least 70 to 80 percent of people who now shoot to non-shooting status because they cannot afford the tariff.
When you think about it, the incidence among shooter that have a lead poisoning problem is probably quite low with I'd venture to guess that those with a serious problem got it from shooting in unventilated shooting ranges, a problem which is being addressed these days.
If you're really worried about lead in your system, drink a lot of orange juice. I've drunk that stuff literally by the gallon since I was a kid, and OJ is supposed to be one of the things prescribed to help eliminate lead and it's effects from one's system.
Paul B.

My BIL has permanent nerve damage from running a radiator repair shop and it did not take all that many years. The lead in the solder damn near killed him. He shakes so bad not he couldn't hit a barn with a shotgun from the inside, much less use a rifle for anything.

miles58---you said it and most of us agree. you are definately not one who is not senical.

Whew. I leave for a while and the thread turns into a match.

So...rather than write anything to straighten out the many misconsceptions, I'll just find something more useful to do -- maybe eat some wheel weights.

P.S. -- BTW, a blood test shows only the level of lead in the blood at THAT POINT in time; it does nothing to show the lead that has already been absorbed by the bones, tissue and the various organs --INCLUDING THE BRAIN. And several studies have already linked the latter as a possible trigger for memory loss, seniilty and Alzheimer's Disease. And HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE -- the generic name for hypertension --is a proven & definite result of lead absorption over a person's life.

Moral: just because a blood test shows low levels now, it doesn't mean the damage has not already beeen done. It just might not show symptoms until later in life.

Enjoy the food fight.

Well, I guess I'm damn glad that 90+ percent of all game meat I've ever eaten was taken with a bow!!

I have donated most of my game meat from western trips.

I see this pile of as no different than when algore and clinton had their "Health Scare of the Week" going. Back then any of the following would definitely KILL you:
1. Milk
2. Eggs
3. Meat
4. Movie house Popcorn
5. And on and on......

The democrats are just making fools of themselves as usual.
-----

Speaking of the totally worthless democrats, how was the Stock Market going before pelosi and the democrats got voted into Power??? If your answer is Record Highs - you are correct.

Who ramed the wolves down our throats? If you said the democrats - clinton and babbott - you are Right Again!

More and deeper headed our way.

I'm real sorry about your Brother-in-law and I say that with all sincerity. I agree there is such thing as lead poisoning and I can see why you might be very vehement in your views towards it. As I pointed out in one of my posts, I've seen it too and it's no laughing matter. The man I knew ran a paper all his life and used linotype every day of his working life. As a typesetter his exposure to lead was far beyond the exposure the average hunter experiences either in hunting activities or in getting bits of lead in his food.

I won't repeat what I've already said but my mind hasn't changed. (Is hardheadedness a symptom?)

Maybe this will provide some chill to you all.

Enjoy.

Battle Hymn

That should go in the political thread, but then the libies would have a fit!
Thanks Tony!

There is no more doubt that lead can be very harmful than that tobacco can be as well. However this certianty does not mean an ocassional cigar or chew is going to kill you. I'm no expert either but the example of a baby with elevated levels from chewing on his dad's shoe contaminated with lead DUST is a far cry from a 30cal. bullet in a chop!!! Point is lead CAN BE harmful. The debate however is whether that found in consumed meat is harmful enough to warrant action. As most who see the MN. DNR x-rays notice, the bulk of the particles seem to be in the organs not the cuts normally consumed by people who know what they're eating. Knowing a (very) little about such things I maintain the lead found in donated meat is probably related more to the greed of the processors who are paid by the animal and expected to produce a certain amount of burger per animal. They get a little careless about bloodshot meat since it's going in the grinder anyway, not to mention the people who will ultimately eat it aren't paying the bill or likely to know what they're eating or anything about meat quality. In fact many of those eating venison burger chili at the soup kitchen are probably getting their best meal even with the lead!
Lead poisoning is typicaly a cumulative proposition and as such is more serious in young people with whom it will last longer - I'm told. But we must not loose sight of the FACT that this whole mess is the result of someone with a specific agenda sounding the alarm. A guy from a group who seek the banning of lead bullets because they THINK it poses a threat to raptors scavenging big game.

The amount of ignorance being propagated in this thread is staggering. Most of this revolves around the concept of "I've done this or that for x number of years and I seem to be okay." These types of arguments are usually completely discredited in any serious discussion. So far, the only people who have presented any evidence is the MN DNR.

Retained lead is found in shot game.---> Game is ingested.----> Lead is ingested----> Lead is soluble in the acidic environment of the stomach.----> Lead ions will be absorbed increasing lead levels ------>Lead is known to be toxic.

The real question is "Does ingesting shot game result in elevated lead levels or in adverse effects in human?" There is no evidence that I have found in literature searches to answer this question.

There is no known safe threshold for lead and I would just soon not have any detectable lead in me or my family. Symptoms of lead toxicity can be difficult to recognize and non-specific. In children, the effects are not necessarily overt, but could simply be a decreased intelligence than what the child may have otherwise retained. Good studies delineating these effects in humans can not be adequately done for ethical reasons. We know relatively little about "minor" lead poisoning because it is likely a largely sub-clinical problem. That doesn't mean it isn't harmful in slight or unrecognized ways. The bottom line is that lead is a heavy metal which are nearly uniformly toxic.

Everyone has the right to eat as much lead as they want, and I don't think the gov should be able to restrict using lead bullets. If I ran a food bank, I would now not accept game for a variety of reasons and for my own family, I will use mainly Barnes. Will I throw away meat shot with lead bullets? Hell no. Just use your head and be careful.

Wes