Hi, first I am a newly registered member, but have been lurking in the shadows for some time.I have about 15 yrs. of big game hunting experience including trips in Canada, USA and South Africa.

I hunt with factory rifles: a rem. Model 7 in 308 and a Win Model 70 in 300 win mag. I like both but I am now wanting more...

More as in:
Better trigger
Smoother feeding
Greater Accuracy
Better reliability
All-Weather functionality etc....

I've completed a search and many top rifle makes pop up:

Jarrett
Rifles Inc.
NULA
Echols
Miller
Penrod etc..

Question 1.

What is the difference between a $3,500.00 rifle and a $9,500.00 rifle in terms of reliability, functioning, accuracy etc. ?

Having an engineering and business background, is the incremental improvement in overall performance worth the $6,000.00 difference in price? I am at a loss of how to build a business case for a top price rifle when it appears as though a 3K rifle would be 10 times better than what I have already.

In other words, aside from emotional reasons (nothing wrong with those), what increase in performance do you get going from a factory rifle to a 3.5K custom then going to a 9.5K custom?

I value all comments but especially those from high end custom owners or people who have that experience.

Mike

if you're looking for a definative answer you won't get one. It's like why do you drive a BMW when a VW would get you there just as well. In terms of function buying a regular rifle & having it gone over a bit is all you really need. Now what to really want?? a lot of money is spent on fine looking wood, engraving etc., but the end result of that is all beauty in the eye of the beholder. I have for instance a matched set of special order dakota safari rifles, will they physically work any better than a ruger, winchester etc. probably not, but when sitting around a camp I'd much rather look at the beautiful wood, the workmanship etc. than I would to stare at a piece of stainless and black plastic.

There is a difference in that some of the rifles you mentioned will have many more manhours in them, often on work not obvious to the eye.

If you're in business then you get "market value". Sometimes its completely disconnected from functional value. Just like furniture, electronics or any other commodity.

quote:

what increase in performance do you get going from a factory rifle to a 3.5K custom then going to a 9.5K custom?

Honestly, I don't think any. You certainly get an increase in trigger, feeding, acccuracy, and so on when you go from an OTS rifle to a semi- or full custom gun that costs a couple of grand more. From there on up, though, it is mostly the look of the furniture. Once you've got the moa accuracy and the crisp trigger follwed up by flawless feeding, there's little more than can be done to the rifle to make it a better tool. There's a lot that can be done, though, to make it a better looking tool.

From the purely business standpoint, take the extra $5K and go hunting.

Don't leave out the WFF Hein.

http://www.rifleactions.com/

Some build their own guns, other rework a commercially available gun. You will have to choose which is more appealing to you.

Aaron

butchbloc is right.it costs at least 100% more to get the last 10%,if you dont care,dont spend the money.if you do care&appreciate the differencethen you have fallen into the abyss with the rest of us.welcome,if you are a neophyte,go to some good gun shows&look at a lot of pre64M70or mausers by good custom smiths:biesen milliron fisheretc.once you have seen a REAL gun you wont go back&youll always need another one.the disease is OCD. if you cant tell the difference or dont care,dont start.your off the shelf gun will be just fine& you wont be condemmed to a life of trying to find the REALLY NICE gun,.BEST,kim

Just to confuse the situation a bit more, I would check out Hill Country Rifles as well.You can get everything from a semi-custom on up. I have had one custom and one semi-custom built by them.

Good Luck!!

Bob

HCR's Link

If accuracy is all you need, you can get it for much less, by building a semi-custom with a better barrel, trigger, and some good bedding work. This rifle will function as well as a custom rifle.

On the otherhand a good custom rifle is more like a work of art. If you appreciate the look and feel of a truly custom rifle it may be worth your money. The little details make all the difference and are considerably more expensive.

I've got the disease and need a really fine and fine looking rifle. I hunt with my factory rifles when its raining and then only if its really raining, otherwise I hunt with my custom rifles. If I get caught in the rain I don't sweat it though either.(got the same bug with shotguns too!)

I'm a lefty and finding a good second hand rifle has always been a problem. I ussually find a used rifle just like I've been looking for just after taking delivery of a custom rifle I had built because I couldn't find what I was looking for used.

My advise for what its worth is to look really hard at the second hand market. If you're a righty chances are good you can find a really nice rifle for a whole lot less than it would cost you to commission it and have it built. With the computer today its pretty easy to find some really nice, great condition, secondhand rifles; often, if your a righty, just about what you would have built.

This route will save some very big bucks and if nothing else might be a less expensive way to see if you find the custom rifles as appealing as some of us.

If you go the full new custom route and end up with more than a couple you're going to look into your gun cabinet and see the equivelent of a Jaguar or Mercedes or the down payment on your vacation home. Not a bad idea if your wife already drives the Jag down to your weekend getaway, but otherwise...surely don't let her into your gun cabinet!

JPK

A lot of guys willing to spend $3K to $5K end up with Sig Blasers. They are very accurate and have a takedown feature. Personally I do not like them, but they fill a niche.

I would like a gun built De'Vries & Waghorn for high end custom hunting rifle.

quote:

Better trigger
Smoother feeding
Greater Accuracy
Better reliability
All-Weather functionality etc....

IMO, if this was all that was important, there'd be no need for a custom rifle. You could by a BrownRugeRemingChester from the local dealer and have a reliable and accurate big game rifle. All the things you ask for are available over the counter, with a bit of aftermarket work (at most) to bring things up to code.

Again IMO, we spend ridiculous amounts of money on custom rifles not because they are necessary, but because most of us spend a great deal of time creating the "perfect" rifle in our heads. The custom is the fruition of that dream, whether it be a super accurate goat rifle, a British style heavy, or maybe just a light 7X57 with a gorgeous piece of wood and all the right bits in all the right places.

In other words, custom rifles are almost entirely about "emotion" and that's just fine. But build a "business" case for a custom rifle? Lord preserve us!

quote:

More as in:
Better trigger
Smoother feeding
Greater Accuracy
Better reliability
All-Weather functionality etc....

As 500 Grains already pointed out you have just described the Blaser R93.

It's time to make a list of the features which are non-negotiable for your "custom rifle." If you plan to hunt it hard, and are looking for a synthetic tack driver in a laser like cartridge, go for the factory offerings and some gunsmthing work! If you want it to be too pretty to hold without white gloves, and feel like it has 10,000 man-hours in it's assembly... fit and finish flawless (till the first outting) go custom in a big way. As previousily mentioned; function is very different then appearance. Appearance costs more, but function is worth more to me. Either way you are toast as to the disease. WELCOME to the CLUB.

Great rifles are an accumulation of little details that, taken as a whole, mean the difference between good and great. Dollar formulas simply don't mean anything when it come to determining value. I always decide on what features are important, and how much effort the riflemaker puts into the product to ensure quality, reliability, and performance. I order rifles on that basis alone. There's always somebody out there that'll build something cheaper, but you have to ask yourself if cheaper is just as good. Most of the time, it isn't, and most of the time, you get what you pay for.

I order total-package rifles, those that balance perfectly, are well-stocked, shoot well, feed perfectly, maintain a consistent point-of-impact, have the most durable scopemounts possible, and employ steel parts throughout and no potmetal. "Benchrest-accuracy" in and of itself simply isn't enough, nor is cosmetics.

Some riflemakers don't know how to produce anything but a tight cluster of holes on paper off the bench, and past that point they're lost. Others are more concerned with cutesy cosmetic details and send out $10,000 safe queens to trusting customers that they haven't even tested at the range. I avoid the later like the plague. Total-package rifles sometimes cost the most and sometimes they don't, but always give you the most return on your investment.............

AD

I own several custom rifles from several riflesmiths. One guy you should seriously consider is Greg Richards in Hobbs, NM.

IMO, you will not find a better riflemaker that meets your criteria, and he is not the most expensive.

The 270 he built me grouped half inch clusters from bullet 1. This includes the barrel break in.

It is THE most accurate custom rifle I own and I have never shot any group with it that spread greater than 3/4". It is simply amazing.

It wears a Broughton-Richards barrel, Rem 700 action, factory trigger is a crisp 2 pounds. It is fitted with a Jim Borden Rimrock stock. It is one of my lightest rifles, and will be heading to Colorado this October once again.

Jim Borden is also a retired engineer. You should consider his rifles as well. In fact, he makes his own actions now and I will be ordering one this fall.

I have never paid more than $6000 for a rifle. And I personally cannot justify doing so. And from what I can take from your post, you probably will not notice a difference either for the specs you named.

HS Precision builds a nice functioning rifle too. They guarantee 1/2" groups before it leaves the factory.

Selecting a rifle and riflesmith is very subjective and it certainly depends on what you want from the rifle. I will never pay more than $3000 for a rifle again.

My $2500 dollar rifle groups better than the $6000 one and I've done a lot of work on the latter. (But it is still a tackdriver too. )

Hey BrooksRange, Welcome Aboard! You have selected one of the most discussed topics on this Board and should get a lot of good and totally different answers.

quote:

Originally posted by BrooksRange:
...I hunt with factory rifles: a rem. Model 7 in 308 and a Win Model 70 in 300 win mag. I like both but I am now wanting more...

It will be difficult to find two better calibers to build your custom rifle around. Fortunately there are plenty.

quote:

More as in:
Better trigger
Smoother feeding
Greater Accuracy
Better reliability
All-Weather functionality etc....

You do not have to spend a lot to achieve those goals. Some you can do yourself if you desire.

quote:

I've completed a search and many top rifle makes pop up:

Jarrett
Rifles Inc.
NULA
Echols
Miller
Penrod etc..

And Dave Tooley and John Lewis if accuracy and reliability are high on your list.

quote:

What is the difference between a $3,500.00 rifle and a $9,500.00 rifle in terms of reliability, functioning, accuracy etc. ?

1. $6000 does not buy more "reliability, functioning, accuracy etc.", if you go with the proper GunSmith to start with.
2. Some people seem to enjoy having functional works of art, and there the additional dollars achieve what they want.
3. You can also enter the Blowhard Braggart level of firearm related boredom if that interests you. Arguing over nothing, but being able to say you spent $xx,xxx.xx on a firearm. This ALWAYS makes such a lasting impression and speaks volumes about a persons character.

quote:

Having an engineering and business background, is the incremental improvement in overall performance worth the $6,000.00 difference in price? I am at a loss of how to build a business case for a top price rifle when it appears as though a 3K rifle would be 10 times better than what I have already.

No. only if you are interested in the Art or the Blowhard Bragging.

quote:

In other words, aside from emotional reasons (nothing wrong with those), what increase in performance do you get going from a factory rifle to a 3.5K custom then going to a 9.5K custom?

Quite often less "field" performance. Most of the big dollar firearms are made with Blue(easy rusting) steel and Wood(constantly changing Termite Food). They can be museum quality or any level you choose.

But, they sure don't provide the same level of confidence, reliability and consistant non-shifting accuracy afield that Stainless and Synthetic provide. And as difficult as it may be for you to believe, some folks will actually try to argue about that.

You can certainly reach your criteria for far less than your budget but, If you want to spend more money for a bigger name, go ahead.

You can buy a factory rifle for the action, and then have a quality Gun Smith build you an exceptional rifle. W/ a new Quality bbl, Quality After-Market trigger, Quality After-Market Stock, and Quality Optics, you'd be meeting your criteria and then some. Have the action blue printed and trued to perfection. All of that can be done for less than $3000 and would result in one fine top of the line hunting rifle.

Good Luck!

Reloader

Well

Take a look at Ed Brown 702

Cheers
/JOHAN

I would either build a custom for a lot less money or take a look at Kimber or Sako or even HS Precision. I never have under stood why people want to spend all this money on these fancy rifle manufactors when a custom rig is a lot better from the start and most factory rigs either shoot just as good or better. If you truly want a the best rifle you can get. I would get either a BAT or Nesika action and a top quality barrel and stock. You can get either action for around $1200.00 a good barrel like Broughton or Krieger for around $300 bucks a good stock for about $400 and a trigger for about $200 plus to have it smithed would cost around $300. Now we are around the $2400 dollar mark and you have a custom rig that cost less then most you metioned and will shoot better. But it is your choice and your money. If you want a couple names for some smiths or need some help with barrels and other stuff just send me a PM or email.

If you have the bucks there is nothing wrong with spending money on guns. However I would save enough to have a back up in each catagory.

All of your requirements can be done with factory rifles by sorting thru them and correcting any deficiency. If you don't have the inclination to do it yourself then send it out local to be done.

With most of the SS rifles your into $600 or so for the gun and then need a new stock so that's another $600 or so to have it done.

For a back up "duplicate" I can suggest Kimbers 84M Montana series. The one I am hunting with was perfect out of the box. If someone adjusted this rifle it would not be better.

In summary I don't think that you have enough rifles. Buy some more that you like and get the ones that need help to a smith and use the others as is.

Hot Core,

I'm one who will argue about the merit of an ugly bead blasted stainless and plastic abomination some call a rifle. At least for hunting use.

I do think its easier and cheaper to get one of these abominations to shoot well, any journeyman smith ought to be able to do it.

On the otherhand its not too tough to get a blue and walnut rifle to shoot well either. A really nice rifle is beyond the journeyman smith in that it starts to be functional art. The art without the function is useless but then to me the function without the art is useless too.

Also blue steel isn't easy to get to rust, useing modern non corrosive ammo. you really need to ignore or abuse a rifle to have a problem. Wood in the brush sounds like it belongs there but plastic scraping against anything sounds really out of place and IMO scares game, which is no big deal unless you like to or need to hunt close. Plastic stocks get damn cold in your hands too, wood doesn't seem to.

What it comes down to is personal taste. I have never been in the predicament but I think I might stay home rather than hunt with a plastic abomination, factory custom or otherwise. I don't mind hunting with a good looking blue and walnut factory rifle but I sure do love to hunt with some of my functional art.

I will admit to going to a stainless and wood laminate TC Omega black powder rifle due to maintenance issues.

JPK

quote:

What it comes down to is personal taste. I have never been in the predicament but I think I might stay home rather than hunt with a plastic abomination, factory custom or otherwise. I don't mind hunting with a good looking blue and walnut factory rifle but I sure do love to hunt with some of my functional art.

You are in it for the wrong reasons!

You should definitely consider badminton or croquet .

Reloader

Reloader,

I don't hunt merely for the kill. I hunt for the whole package. Parts of the package might include comeraderie, challenge, the satisfaction of putting together a plan, working it and having it payoff, working with my dog for waterfowl hunts....other. For me it hopefully also includes using a really nice rifle, or sometimes shotgun, that is more than a mere tool.

Hell sometimes I wish we could have catch and release hunting!

JPK

quote:

Hell sometimes I wish we could have catch and release hunting!

JPK,

They already invented it. I was watching the Outdoor Channel a while back and this guy was hunting Rino and Giraffe w/ his Bow. Only he was using tranquilizer tips! Yep, He shot one of each of the huge animals, took photos w/ them laying there, and then they got up and stumbled off. He then had a Taxidermist recreate his throphy.

"Catch and Release"

Reloader

Reloader,

I've read of the traquilizer hunts using a dart gun but this is the first I've heard of doing it with a bow.

Pretty neat idea for those black rhino.

What I really want to do is figure out my state's Hunters for the Hungry program. Now I typically shoot a couple or three deer and I've got enough for the freezer. I don't know about where you hunt but we have no shortage of deer around here in Md and Va where I typically hunt. I think the limit in Md for all seasons with all weapons is 21 and you can buy extra tags if your inclined. Similar in Va.

JPK

I'm pretty much the same, about 2-or three and my freezers full w/ more than my wife and I can handle. Our limit is 6 per season here in La. and I usually get a few more from neighboring areas. After I get 2-3 in the freezer, I give the rest to relatives and people from the church. I usually field dress, quarter, drop them at the processing plant, pick them up and deliver them to whom ever and just have them reimburse me the processing fees. Most folks don't want to go to the trouble but, I enjoy every minute of it. I have heard of the Wild Game for the Hungry but, I'm not sure of any locations here at home.

Have a Good One

Reloader

Fine gentlemen you guys are indeed.

Thank you.

I do not want a wood stock.

In fact, I am looking for an All-Weather Stainless Steel, Kevlar-fiberglass-composite type stocked model 70. Weight around 7.5-8.5 pounds bare- in 300 Win.Mag., H&H or Wea. or Jarett chamber.

So, please answer based on the SS and plastic stock and pricing between $3.5K (most top makers) to $9.5K (Echols, miller, et al...) is the $6000 more going to contribute that much incremental value?

Take that $6000 and go kill a very nice Mexican desert mule deer.

In all honesty, that question cannot be answered by anyone except you and then based on actual hands-on experience with various rifles. At present, the SS-Syn. rifle market is full of goodies and rifles by Borden, Bansner, Brown Precision, McMillan, Hein, Leeper and various others will probably fill your needs and make you happy.

Then, you come to Jarrett, whose rifles are not my choice and Miller who is also not my choice, but, both of these guys are justifiably famous. Darcy Echol's does not use stainless in his rifles as far as I know, but, Phil Shoemaker, an Alaskan guide reports no problems with them in his use over a full season and he would probably know what he is talking about.

I have both SS and blued rifles and have never had rust problems, but, I look after my gear and treat it as the tools of a professional, which it used to be. You can spend the money on an Echols rifle and I think that the value is definitely there, if I were younger, I would buy one without question; or, you can choose something of lesser expense. I would certainly listen to the advice offered by Allen Day as he has the hands-on experience with rifles, hunting and even dangerous game that certain other posters lack, as the unsubstantiated, ego-inflated drivel demonstrates.

Good luck on your choice, in today's gun world, there are lots of intriguing ones.

quote:

Originally posted by BrooksRange:

So, please ... is the $6000 more going to contribute that much incremental value?

ABSOLUTELY NOT. I HAD A REM BDL 700 ACTION. I SENT IT TO GREG RICHARDS, I PAID HIM $1900 TO BLUE PRINT, TRIGGER, NEW BROUGHTON BARREL INSTALL, RIMROCK STOCK, BEAD BLAST, FLOAT BARREL, ETC.

I have shot this rifle at 500 yards from a portable bench and grouped within 6 inches. Now, I did let the barrel cool about 4-5 min between shots but that rifle can shoot better. I just am not the shooter for the task.

There is no question in my mind, I'd take that extra $6000 and use it for a trophy hunt or 2 separate hunts. I'd say, use your money wisely. Buy a fantastic rifle and go hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Hot Core,

I'm one who will argue ...

I will admit to going to a stainless and wood laminate TC Omega black powder rifle due to maintenance issues. ...

Hey JPK, I must have missed the "arguing" part. Looks like a well thought-out and well worded defense of your preferences.

Though I don't agree with all you posted, I'm glad you are happy with what you have. Heck, I even "agree" that you got the TC Omega half right.

quote:

Originally posted by BrooksRange:
...In fact, I am looking for an All-Weather Stainless Steel, Kevlar-fiberglass-composite type stocked model 70. Weight around 7.5-8.5 pounds bare- in 300 Win.Mag., H&H or Wea. or Jarett chamber....

quote:

More as in:
Better trigger
Smoother feeding
Greater Accuracy
Better reliability
All-Weather functionality etc....

Hey BrooksRange, Considering you are interested in basing this new rifle on another M70, I now understand your "concern" about wanting a: "Better trigger, Smoother feeding, Greater Accuracy, Better reliability, All-Weather functionality, etc...."

Yes, it will cost an arm and a leg to get a M70 to that level, especially the Accuracy portion, but surely not $9000. Unless you just want to spend that much.

But, I'm with the guys that say you should absolutely get what you want. It will make you feel good and stimulate the economy a whole lot more than just getting an already Accurate Stainless & Synthetic M700 that comes direct from the factory with an excellent Trigger, smoother feeding, outstanding reliability and all-weather functionality, etc.

Best of luck to you.

Hot Core,

As you can read I can't warm up to the fiberglass or kevlar stocks! Not a big fan of stainless either (except I really like my Omega).

I will also admit that I laugh at myself on occassion when its cold out and I'm wearing enough layers to pass for a hobo or street person living on a steam grate, would be refused service at any respectable McDonalds, and holding a gorgeously stocked, finely made rifle!

Best part is neither of us is stuck with the other's idea of the "ideal" rifle!

Brooks Range,

I'll say it again: don't overlook the second hand market, used custom rifles, even from well respected makers, go for a fraction of their new price; and with a little looking you can find a really nice rifle at pretty nice price.

Hope you find or build your ideal rifle.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
...Best part is neither of us is stuck with the other's idea of the "ideal" rifle!...

Hey JPK, By golly, we are in agreement AGAIN!

Meant to ask you the last time and got side-tracked about:

quote:

...the merit of an ugly bead blasted stainless and plastic abomination some call a rifle. At least for hunting use.

Tell me how your rifles "pretty" them to death.

Always interested in learning something new!

Hot Core,

My pretty rifles "pretty them to death" when I'm beat and plunck my butt down and lean back against a handy tree overlooking an area I think deer may cross or come out to feed, or when I'm sitting in a tree stand for what seems the umpteenth hour fairly convinced there are no more deer in the whole damn county and I take my pretty rifle and study the worksmanship, astounded by the flawless inletting, fascinated by the figure of the walnut...when otherwise I might be back in the truck heading home...and I look up and...OH!, there he is!

Works equally well for a fine shotgun in a duck blind or goose pit too!

I'll concede that the synthetic stocked rifle is the more stable, but I've never had much of a problem with shifting POI with wood stocks. In fact my first centerfire rifle, a 30-06 700 BDL, bought when lefties had the choice of the BDL or the Wheatherby (either of which, in my opinion makes any SS/Syn rifle look beautiful in comparison), has never shifted POI in over twenty years. I bought a huge amount of Federal 165 Sierra GameKing ammo of the same lot when I bought that rifle since it liked it. I only ran out earlier this spring. For some time the rifle has been a closet queen but every so often I check zero anyway and it always shot the same 1 1/4" three shot groups in the same place.

This is the only rifle I have considered for a synthetic stock and a ceramic metal coating for the really crappy days. Considered rebarreling to 338-06 too but the 20 some year consistecy of the rifle keeps me from that.

Also I do wince when I give one of my pretty rifles or shotguns a good whack or ding, but that comes with using them.

JPK

PS: Has your SS/Syn rifle "uglied to death" any game?

BrooksRange,
Content ment does not always come from trying to save money.We have to remember that high end rifle masters like Jerry fisher and Martini/Hagn,get pleasure out of doing a great job,and there are people who appreciate that work and willingly pay for it.Make your way to the ACGG Reno sometime and feel one of these guns. In fact for the amount of work thats done,I think sometimes they may be underpayed.
Buy a car sit in the std seat for 12hrs,then install a Recaro or Sparco performance seat and drive for 12hrs,feel the difference in reduced fatigue. take it one step further,get a custom molded to your body shape kevlar/carbon seat and feel things improve again,driving actually becomes something to look forward to. Same applies to rifles and yes it comes at a price, what doesnt in this world? Life is full of sacrifices.
Warren Buffet USAs richest stock brocker($51 Billion)drives second hand cars and lives in the same house be bought in 1958.He gets pleasure out of making money,not impressing the neighbours.Even he makes sacrifices,no one is exempt.
A person must do what makes him happy,I dont know how you put a price on that.

"You only live once,then are dead forever.We all can live with mistakes,but the greatest sin of all is to die with regrets or be left wondering."

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Hot Core,

My pretty rifles "pretty them to death" when I'm beat and plunck my butt down and lean back against a handy tree overlooking an area I think deer may cross or come out to feed, or when I'm sitting in a tree stand for what seems the umpteenth hour fairly convinced there are no more deer in the whole damn county and I take my pretty rifle and study the worksmanship, astounded by the flawless inletting, fascinated by the figure of the walnut...when otherwise I might be back in the truck heading home...and I look up and...OH!, there he is!

Works equally well for a fine shotgun in a duck blind or goose pit too!

So they allow you to "daydream" about how well they are made and how well you like their looks. Which in turn allows you to remain still for longer periods. That is the very best explaination I've heard to the question yet. Most of the folks with Rusting Blue and Termite Food tend to get flustered when you ask them.

quote:

I'll concede that the synthetic stocked rifle is the more stable, but I've never had much of a problem with shifting POI with wood stocks. In fact my first centerfire rifle, a 30-06 700 BDL, bought when lefties had the choice of the BDL or the Wheatherby (either of which, in my opinion makes any SS/Syn rifle look beautiful in comparison), has never shifted POI in over twenty years. I bought a huge amount of Federal 165 Sierra GameKing ammo of the same lot when I bought that rifle since it liked it. I only ran out earlier this spring. For some time the rifle has been a closet queen but every so often I check zero anyway and it always shot the same 1 1/4" three shot groups in the same place.

This is the only rifle I have considered for a synthetic stock and a ceramic metal coating for the really crappy days. Considered rebarreling to 338-06 too but the 20 some year consistecy of the rifle keeps me from that.

Sounds like an excellent plan to get the 30-06 weatherized. And a switch to a 338-06 would make a fine rifle too.

Either option in a weatherized condition might have you actually hunting a bit more - when the Deer are out walking aound. I hunt a lot in a light drizzle or immediately following a rain when the woods continues to drip for an hour or so. That also cranks the Humidity into the 95% range so I'm generally sweating then too. In those conditions the S&S just serve "my" needs better. I had to carry B&W for many years and now that I don't "have to", it sure let's me enjoy the hunt more.

quote:

Also I do wince when I give one of my pretty rifles or shotguns a good whack or ding, but that comes with using them.

I had a Kimber 22LR back when they began making them, the first time. Beautiful deep Blue that it looked like you could reach into. The Walnut had a red cast with lots of figure and the sear released at about 2# without any creep or drag. Shot right well too. But, I couldn't enjoy it for the same reasons. Had to lay it on a blanket at the Range. Couldn't take it in the woods because a drop of water might get between the barrel and stock. Eventually traded it off for two new rifles.

quote:

PS: Has your SS/Syn rifle "uglied to death" any game?

Not that I'm aware of. Unlike you, they tend to let me remain focused on the hunt, cause I'm fairly unconcerned about an errant drop of water or sweat hitting the S&S. Even a bump is no big deal and I have been known to do that.

By the way, if you happen to bend over to lay a flashlight on the ground "quietly" near a steel tower stand, and if you goofed up by slinging the rifle barrel up, when the Stainless makes a "quick contact"(aka Whamming) with the tower, the tower will ring. Then you can re-adjust the S&S rifle barrel down as it should have been, pick up the flashlight and go find another Stand hopefully before sunrise. Pitiful!!!

quote:

By the way, if you happen to bend over to lay a flashlight on the ground

I prefer a felt sheathed walking stick to a flashlight myself...tap tap tap. BTW, dont' do that in Key West, Fl without checking your six.

Well, this is an interesting thread, some good points made along the way. I think the best advice was the part about making the decision yourself. If you do something that might loosely be considered custom then do what YOU want, not what you think others would approve of. There are guns in my locker I paid too much for, some I stole. My favorites are priceless and since that is my subjective opinion I am right in the face of all other conjecture or opinion.

While fully cognizant of the merits or demerits of wood/stainless/CM/synthetic I also judge the differences to be of small funtional significance in the field. I do own two synthetic stocked rifles, one with stainless, a low end production gun used primarily for days when I HAVE to go afield and the weather sucks. Such guns are tools, nothing more or less to me, and easily disposed of on whim when needing cash for the latest love of my eye in the rack of some gun store. Does beauty shoot better? Of course not. Neither does ugly. Does it carry better? Shoulder quicker? That is for YOUR judgement, not mine. It is easy to find excellent accuracy on a budget, tougher to possess elegance that way. I'm past the Ugly Phase of hunting by personal choice, all of you being grown up(a wild assed assumption ) are fully capable of making your own choices. The 'smiths out there capable of making excellent killing sticks are numerous, those elevated(IMO) to the more esthetically pleasing aspects not so common, if the benchmark is excellence. That is why their guns cost more. A final observation on the subject: When I run across a firearm with synthetic stockings that handles with the finess and agility of a couple of my ancient wood and blue pieces I shall kiss the makers ass, in public, at noon, on the steps of the City Hall. That point I believe is the fine difference between technicians who build guns, and artists who create symphonies. One of my standards for comparison is a hammer gun, over 100 years old that weighs 4#6, and has two barrels, side by side, 28" long.

Good hunting to all.

I prefer sythetic-stock custom rifles to wood for all hunting purposes, but Hot Core, I also used wood for many years with few problems, and I also know guys who hunt with "termite food" stocks and who have taken more game in more places with those same rifles than you'll ever see in your life, and that's a fact............

AD