My take on Hot Cores "termite food" etc. is that he hunts in SC low country where its humid and perhaps his gun storage has not had some condensation control.

Others may hunt in an area where it rains a lot and they may stay in a tent for instance and it then it would be very hard to take care of wood or blue.

The majority of hunters might return home at night and have the facilities to care for their guns.

I have got by just fine with wood and blue but now I have bought a few SS and composite now that they are available. I like both.

If, you want to really see what works in the most demanding conditions in North America, come and live in the remote wilderness areas of BC (or Alaska) and use your rifle, every day, for months on end, as a working tool you must depend on. BC has the highest rainfall per annum in North America and I have frequently lived in log cabins, pre-fab plywood shacks and tents for several weeks to months at a time. I was charged with the responsibilty to protect forestry crews from the very real danger of bear attack and came to prefer my P-64 Mod. 70s in .338 and .375 for this work....in over 40 years of using these rifles, I have never had a problem of any type with one, although the finish has been worn from some that I used.

Why is it that the posters from the most settled and thus least demanding environments have so many concerns with potential problems that those of us who actually live, hunt and work in the most demanding areas find non-existent?

In mid-July, a partner and I leave for the Yukon and north-west B.C. and we will be using blue steel rifles as protection guns when backpacking in this country. Why would we do this, given our more than 60 years combined experience in mountains (he has hunted all over the world) if better options existed? We can both afford the finest gear made and yet, we choose to use rifles that are supposedly going to turn to rust and blow up???? What jealousy driven bullshit!!!!

Maybe if those who sneer at Darcy Echol's rifles actually hunted in real wilderness, instead of ambushing semi-tame deer from steel cages, their opinions might have some merit. As it is, the pathetic sniping at those who have actually worked hard in life to be able to afford their rifle(s) of choice simply is a neurotic, sniveling whine of the sort one associates with adolescents, junkies and libbers.

Kute, the reasons are as transparent as can be, as you and I have both long since figured out.

It's funny, but there have long been some very expensive double rifles, shotguns and assorted "let's pretend", safe-queen type bolt-guns displayed and discussed on these boards, and without one negative comment about price. But discuss a high-end bolt gun that'll see serious and extensive use under real-world hunting conditions ("benchrest" be dipped), and some guys just can't handle it. Weird..........

AD

I was looking at an auction for a pre 64 M70 Supergrade in 458 Win. The story on the rifle was that it had taken the big five many times over but still had 90% blue.

The pictures showed another story with the bluing almost all gone from many surfaces. The matte on the receiver was gone as well.

Now those rifles are about as good as it gets and someone might want it for the story alone.

I passed on it as I was looking for a better finish. If that rifle had been made from SS the finish might have been better but it was ready as is for another go at the big five.

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
...I also know guys who hunt with "termite food" stocks and who have taken more game in more places with those same rifles than you'll ever see in your life, and that's a fact............

Interesting you would know how much Game I'll "ever see in my life". I'll "guess" you got it from some manner similar to the way your close and personal buddy kute looked at a "beer can" on the ground with nobody around anywhere, and knew the guy that drank it had shot at an Elk, wounded it and failed to recover the Elk.

Must admit, that is a great skill on your part.

And I'm sure IMPRESSED!

A couple of weeks ago, I stood in a tiny, century old log cabin close to the Kananaskis Pass between B.C. and Alberta, just a few miles from the main camp of the late Bob Fontana. The last time I was in that cabin was June 1967, on my 21st birthday; it was a sentimental journey to where I began working in the wilderness at age 18.

I remembered guys like Jock, little Eddie, Bill and especially Jimmy C., the Elk Valley patrolman for the BCFS. Jimmy was in his 50s then, born and raised in Fernie, B.C. and a hunter, guide, fabulous camp cook and VERY capable bushman all of his life, he is gone now as they all are, to Valhalla. Jimmy shot one rifle all of his life, an 1895 Win. in .30-06 and it had been his dad's rifle since he returned from the horror that was Flanders; this rifle had about zero bluing and the wood was worn, but, the bore was perfect.

I do not know exactly how much big game Jimmy shot, but, he was one of the poachers during the "dirty thirties" who kept the por people of that area in meat. He also shot many Grizzlies while working in the bush and his total of animals would probably amaze most of the people on this board. This was in a time and place where trophies that would cause most guys to go ga ga were routinely left in the bush and families shot several cow Elk per season.

The point here is that this old, blue and wood rifle did the job while Jimmy did his, that's the point and the only one that counts. I bought a new Browning Safari Grade that spring to use in the bush and packed it for three solid months while alone in the mountains without a speck of rust. I used a pullthrough and a bit of whitegas from my single Coleman lantern to keep it clean and it was minty when I sold it a couple years later to go to college....foolish youth. Oh yeah, it was an '.06 as Jimmy did not really believe that a kid should buy a .338 or .375....he was right about that, too.

Hot Core, I posted precise details about that incident, including the fact that two other members of the BCFS were involved and that our investigation was continued by the Fish and Wildlife Branch and charges were subsequently laid and successfully prosecuted. Yet, you continue to libel me and other men whom you do not know, simply because you are a pathetic wannabe-neverwas who is jealous of real men.

Nobody here cares whether you are impressed, your spiteful, infantile posts clearly show what kind of a punk you are. Since you NEVER detail your own hunting/wilderness experience and have instigated a number of unpleasant exchanges with others, claiming to be an engineer, etc., may I suggest that you go back to your boyfriend and leave we real hunters/shooters alone.

Now, again, how many Grizzlies have you enountered at less than 50 yds. and what were the details? What does your best Elk score and have you completed your Grand Slam? Surely you have hunted Alaska, probably solo as a master outdoorsman like you wouldn't need a guide and have hunted B.C. as well.....when, where and with whom? Allen and I always detail our actual experiences, so, be a big boy, stop peeing on the toilet seat and tell us all about your hunts!

quote:

Originally posted by kutenay:
Hot Core, I posted precise details about that incident, including the fact that two other members of the BCFS were involved and that our investigation was continued by the Fish and Wildlife Branch and charges were subsequently laid and successfully prosecuted. Yet, you continue to libel me and other men whom you do not know, simply because you are a pathetic wannabe-neverwas who is jealous of real men.

Nobody here cares whether you are impressed, your spiteful, infantile posts clearly show what kind of a punk you are. Since you NEVER detail your own hunting/wilderness experience and have instigated a number of unpleasant exchanges with others, claiming to be an engineer, etc., may I suggest that you go back to your boyfriend and leave we real hunters/shooters alone.

Now, again, how many Grizzlies have you enountered at less than 50 yds. and what were the details? What does your best Elk score and have you completed your Grand Slam? Surely you have hunted Alaska, probably solo as a master outdoorsman like you wouldn't need a guide and have hunted B.C. as well.....when, where and with whom? Allen and I always detail our actual experiences, so, be a big boy, stop peeing on the toilet seat and tell us all about your hunts!

Hard to pick whether you or your close and personal buddy ad is the biggest blowhard braggart. I'll just think of it as a tie.

Hot Core, I just can't help but notice that everytime you have been given the chance on various threads to produce some insights from your own actual hunting experience, you furnish nothing but insults, transparent insecure rantings, and those silly illustrated symbols that you employ to distract and masque the subject at hand. So you're right, I DON'T know what you're actual hunting experience is, and you make sure of that by deliberately furnishing plenty of thinly veiled distractions to keep us in the dark on that subject.

WHY???

AD

Hot Core, You are invited to go hunting with me, this coming autumn here in B.C. and I will take you within 50 yds. or less, of at least one Grizzly Bear. I am not a guide, but, I have been asked to be by two or three B.C. G/Os; so, here is your chance to prove yourself and show me up.

I will provide all the gear for a firstclass backpack hunt, except your clothing, sleeping bag and personal toiletries; you can shoot upland birds and small game and carry a gun w/o problem.

I will lend you ANY of my guns to use, including my Merkel drilling, Dakota or Browning BSS-Sidelock 20 bore. I can take you into some of the most remote wilderness and finest game country anywhere on Earth and for FREE, as I cannot accept payment.

You simply have to get to Vancouver, B.C. airport and I will pick you up. So, will you come and take the opportunity to show all here that you are what you try to make others think you are, or, will you evade this opportunity and continue to attempt to insult others......put up or shut up.

HOLY COW KUT! what would it take for me to get that offer?!!

I'll buy lunch!

Doc

can I ride with you it you drive up there?

Vancouver would be a looong drive. Sorry, I'll be flying. I'm ANXIOUSLY awaiting Kutenay's reply. I can get to Vancouver from Cincinnati for about $750. The gas at better than $2.29 is just not worth the drive.

I better tell the wife I have yet another trip planned. I'll fly you out too but you have to clean and butcher all the game. How's that sound?

Are you close to the Rapid City airport?

Jesus Kute, I'll crawl to your place, just tell me when to arrive!

Hey, not so fast Dan, I replied first.

Guys, this is an open challenge to someone who has repeatedly insulted me and deceased, former colleagues of mine and as much as called me a liar on this forum. So, I want to see him in action and this would be one very tough trip with lots of climbing, bivy sack camping and heavy packs.

I am not a guide and cannot guide non-residents to actually hunt here; I can only accompany friends who may hunt upland birds, but, not any big game such as Sheep. So, this is not quite the possible bonanza that it may seem; it is an honest challenge to someone whose behaviour here makes me doubt his bonafides....so, let's see.

BTW, you do not need to hire a guide to hunt upland game here and the process for getting permission to do so and bring a gun here is very simple. Some serious bush knowledge before going solo into the bush in B.C. is a good idea, though.

Doc, if you are, as I assume, a licenced physician in Georgia, the ability to hunt here as a resident is easily within your reach. Contact the BCMA regarding "locum" positions, etc,, especially in northern B.C. You need to be a legal resident here for six months per year, no citizenship requirement is involved as far as I know and you can get a B.C. Hunter Number....then you are good to go, as long as you "reside" here for six months per year.

If, you owned a small cabin on a lot here and came for regular visits and were an accredited physician, there would be no problem with hunting. Doctors in northern B.C. are in extremely short supply and someone from Georgia would be welcomed as a temporary, I am sure, so, check it out.

Wow, I didn't know that. But I'm in Ohio, not Georgia.

I know your offer was a challenge to Hot Core, but I didn't know he upset you to that degree.

I apologize for twisting the thread. But the thought was still fun.

How does real estate sell up there? Do you have to buy crown land?

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
Hot Core, I just can't help but notice that everytime you have been given the chance on various threads to produce some insights from your own actual hunting experience, you furnish nothing but insults,

Actually that is false. I've posted my experience for both you and kute on two other occasions. Why you either did not bother to read it then, or remember it today is clear to me.

It is easy enough to follow a person’s posts over time and see if they actually know what they are talking about. And no doubt that creates a unique problem for you.

quote:

...So you're right, I DON'T know what you're actual hunting experience is, ...WHY???

See above.
---

I do understand your frustration.

No doubt at all with your extensive knowledge of firearms and hunting that it would take thousands of men many lifetimes to glean even a small portion of the great all-knowing insight and wisdom you have. Anyone else’s experience is simply insignificant and meaningless in comparison.

Perhaps it would be more appropriate for people to just post a question to a thread and everyone else just await “your†answer, so we can sit back in awe and wonderment at how completely you can provide the only possible, totally correct answer for every hunting and firearm situation world wide.

And perhaps the people that run the Boards could incorporate a Button where the rest of us totally un-knowing and in-experienced folks could just hit “AGREE†and it would record how much we appreciate your sharing that unmatchable, vast wisdom with us.

You are without a doubt a “Living Legendâ€(in your own mind).

quote:

Originally posted by kutenay:
Hot Core, You are invited to go hunting with me, this coming autumn here in B.C. and I will take you within 50 yds. or less, of at least one Grizzly Bear. I am not a guide, but, I have been asked to be by two or three B.C. G/Os; so, here is your chance to prove yourself and show me up.

I will provide all the gear for a firstclass backpack hunt, except your clothing, sleeping bag and personal toiletries; you can shoot upland birds and small game and carry a gun w/o problem.

I will lend you ANY of my guns to use, including my Merkel drilling, Dakota or Browning BSS-Sidelock 20 bore. I can take you into some of the most remote wilderness and finest game country anywhere on Earth and for FREE, as I cannot accept payment.

You simply have to get to Vancouver, B.C. airport and I will pick you up. So, will you come and take the opportunity to show all here that you are what you try to make others think you are, or, will you evade this opportunity and continue to attempt to insult others......put up or shut up.

I most certainly would like to meet you face-to-face. Can't do it right now due to a health problem with a family member.

But I sure would enjoy getting to meet up with you at some point in the future so you can teach me how to become a "Beercan Seer".

No doubt at all with your extensive knowledge of firearms and hunting that it would take thousands of men many lifetimes to glean even a small portion of the great all-knowing insight and wisdom you have. Anyone else’s experience(besides ad) is simply insignificant and meaningless in comparison.

You are without a doubt another “Living Legendâ€.

Well, I did not ever see HC's post concerning his hunting experience, however, this computer was down for three months last year and so I may have missed his posts. I am willing to give HC the benefit of the doubt and will accept his word that he posted as he said he did; his reasons for refusing to do so again are his own and I can only wonder why he has difficulty with this situation.

As to knowledge/opinions, maybe AD (whom I do not know, have never met or spoken to) and I should defer to HC as he is evidently so knowledgable that he could, last year, inform me that he had far more game to his credit than I do, this without knowing me and what I may have done....fuggin' miraculous powers our buddy HC has, IMHO.

HC, do come and meet me face to face, I think that this would give you the surprise of your life, I am not at all what you seem to think I am. But, you and I both know that you will never do this and, I think that we all know why. In short, you have, once again, slagged
AD and I and refused an honest challenge, so, .....................

Doc, if you are seriously interested in the situation concerning "locums", land and so forth, just PM me and I will give you what advice I can as I do not want to continue distorting the original thread. I may be able to assist you, if you want to do this, and will do my best.

Kute, no need to explain, I was joking too. Wouldn't mind meeting you someday though, got a nice little double I'd like to blood in a proper way.

quote:

Actually that is false. I've posted my experience for both you and kute on two other occasions. Why you either did not bother to read it then, or remember it today is clear to me.

It was memorable I can tell.

Chuck

HC, I guess my memory is slipping, I don't recall you talking about any hunting experience.

AD

Allen, do you have any pictures you can post of your elk or mulies?

I know you guys have taken a lot more western game than I have and I've always enjoyed nice western game pics.

Doc, if I can get my daughter (home for summer from college) to help me with her scanner, I'll post a few.........

AD

Great.

quote:

Originally posted by kutenay:
...HC, do come and meet me face to face, I think that this would give you the surprise of your life, I am not at all what you seem to think I am. But, you and I both know that you will never do this and, I think that we all know why. In short, you have, once again, slagged
AD and I and refused an honest challenge, so, .........

Ah yes, LL kute, your reading comprehension is still at fault. I just explained "why" I can't take you up on your offer, and you are incapable of understanding what I posted.

When the situation changes, and it eventually will, I'll keep your invite at the top of my list.
---

Hey Chuck, If there was anyway possible I could let you be going through what my family member is, I'd do it in a second.

Hot Core, my sincere condolences on the illness of your family member, nobody here wishes misfortune on you or yours, I certainly do not.

You might take a moment to reflect on some of your posts concerning people whom you do not know and why these people find your comments both absurd and offensive. An example is your frequent defamatory remarks about former colleagues of mine such as Jock White, who was with me on the day we found the Elk, shot by drunken, "long range" expert hunters. He and I were close friends, he was one of the very, very few Canadian wounded who survived the "HitlerJugend", especially the 26th Panzer Grenadiers under Standartenfuhrer Helmut Mohnke, the killer of so many wounded Canucks, brits and Yanks, godam his Nazi soul to hell. Jock died very young due to the lack of one lung, torn out by an 88 burst in Normandy; he was 19 when he watched, from under a friend's corpse, the Schutstaffeln machine gun his wounded fellow soldiers of the Canadian Scottish. He was a fine man, a good friend and though dead these thirty years, I still remember him with affection and respect.

My point here is that we all suffer, but, we do not all vilify others whom we do not know and have no reason to disparage; I understand that you are under severe emotional strain and that can make any man testy. So, since the person closest to me in this harsh world, my brother died when we were in our early thirties just as he was completing his PhD., I can empathise with you and I wish you peace and God's mercy.

Also, this isn't Chuck's fault, or mine or AD's or yours, it's what we all come to and, again, I hope it works out well.

quote:

Originally posted by kutenay:
Hot Core, my sincere condolences on the illness of your family member, nobody here wishes misfortune on you or yours, I certainly do not.

You might take a moment to reflect on some of your posts concerning people whom you do not know and why these people find your comments both absurd and offensive. An example is your frequent defamatory remarks about former colleagues of mine such as Jock White, who was with me on the day we found the Elk, shot by drunken, "long range" expert hunters. He and I were close friends, he was one of the very, very few Canadian wounded who survived the "HitlerJugend", especially the 26th Panzer Grenadiers under Standartenfuhrer Helmut Mohnke, the killer of so many wounded Canucks, brits and Yanks, godam his Nazi soul to hell. Jock died very young due to the lack of one lung, torn out by an 88 burst in Normandy; he was 19 when he watched, from under a friend's corpse, the Schutstaffeln machine gun his wounded fellow soldiers of the Canadian Scottish. He was a fine man, a good friend and though dead these thirty years, I still remember him with affection and respect.

My point here is that we all suffer, but, we do not all vilify others whom we do not know and have no reason to disparage; I understand that you are under severe emotional strain and that can make any man testy. So, since the person closest to me in this harsh world, my brother died when we were in our early thirties just as he was completing his PhD., I can empathise with you and I wish you peace and God's mercy.

Also, this isn't Chuck's fault, or mine or AD's or yours, it's what we all come to and, again, I hope it works out well.

Hey Kutenay, Thank you for the kind words. I do appreciate them.

I sincerely mean this next statement: I really do not remember saying anything at all negative about any of your colleagues. Anything I post is normally intended for a specific person, and I admit that I don't know anything at all about the people you have worked with. If I've said something inappropriate concerning "them" then it was certainly out of place and should not have been done.
---

If you can see fit to take the other guys that posted Hunting, and would relate those stories with some flicks, I would look forward to hearing them. Especially if they carry a S&S M700.

I wish you the best of Hunting and lots of clean 1-shot kills, and I do not mean that lightly.

Hot Core, no one wishes you ill, and I certainly wish you only the best in health, life, and in all your pursuits.........

AD

I would like to take this moment to compliment all of the members in the hunting and firearms forums on what has been an great improvement in the way we discuss things.

Hot Core, I'm here to discuss firearms and hunting, and second whole heartedly what Allen has said.

Chuck

BrooksRange
It sounds like you pretty well descibed a Sako stainlees Synthetic. You can prolly get one for $1000.-

I've been gone for this holiday weekend and missed more fireworks here than I saw yesterday.

I want to say that I never took offense at anything Hot Core wrote in his posts in our exchange. I was tongue in cheek about the "stainless and plastic abominations" Hot Core prefers and clearly he was being equally tongue in cheek about the "rusty steel and termite food" that I prefer. Just good natured ribbing going both ways.

A guy should use the rifle, or shotgun, as the case may be, that he has confidence in and which he believes is the best for the task and which give him the most pleasure to carry.

As I wrote in an earlier post directed to Hot Core, but which applies to us all, "The best part is that neither of us is stuck using the other's idea of the "ideal" rifle!" Hot Core agreed with this restatement of the obvious, as we all should.

JPK

Edited to add that I also took no offense to Hot Core's comment that I might hunt more and see more deer with a "weatherized" rifle which was based on his mistaken belief that I don't hunt in the rain with a blue and walnut rifle.