North Mountain Elk Ranch, Wild Elk Ranch, ElkWorld2000, or any other name Robert E Ramsay from Elma NY operates his elk ranch in Morris,Pa. under...it is a scam advertised on EBay and GunBroker.
I bought a couple of his "promo" hunts as gifts for some clients. They are high fenced elk preserve shoots, I knew this before purchasing them. My clients are handicapped an I wished to give them an outing for an early Christmas present. Long story short...he has been running this scam for a couple years and I had to have the NY police knock on his door to get my money back ( No good deed goes unpunished ). I have spoken with several others whom bought hunts from him some as high as $15K waiting on refunds at this time.

I am sure I missed something. You purchased what you knew was a high fence elk preserve shoot and now you want your money back. Did this man not deliver any hunt at all? Again, no slam intended, just confused.

Details please? Why exactly is it a scam?

Yes you did miss something..I bought them as gifts for two of my patients,both chair bound...I provide dental services to the handicapped. Hence they needed a "hunt" that could be done from a wheelchair.
The fence issue is not what I'm suggesting was a scam rather Ramsay could nor be reached for directions to his lodge even as the date of the outting was less than two weeks away. He gave every excuse under the sun, " I'm working in Mexico or China, my guides are not available, etc. etc." Then offered to move the dates ahead another month stating, " I'll have everything worked out by then". you guessed it as that date neared he wouldn't return calls..China, sick, computer crashed,etc. then stopped communication completely. I began doing internet searches on Ramsay ( I admit I should have done this prior to the purchase ) getting the true story that he had hunters that as far back as 2013 had been waiting for him to refund hunt money, an each sang the same sad story of his excuses.
Contacted my CC company and filed fraud claims with them but in the interim I went to my local police with copies of all his emails an they contacted NY State Police in regard to Ramsay. Finding that Robert E Ramsay had 5 addresses ( he lives in Elma, NY) as well as he had several people trying to find him for refunds.
I have gotten my money back from him and the check has cleared his bank. Ebay will not take a listing from him but Gunbroker still does even though I took the time to contact them about his scam. Ramsay now calls the ranch "Wild Elk Ranch and does business with an email account of elkworld2000. Doc

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
North Mountain Elk Ranch, Wild Elk Ranch, ElkWorld2000, or any other name Robert E Ramsay from Elma NY operates his elk ranch in Morris,Pa. under...it is a scam advertised on EBay and GunBroker.
I bought a couple of his "promo" hunts as gifts for some clients. They are high fenced elk preserve shoots, I knew this before purchasing them. My clients are handicapped an I wished to give them an outing for an early Christmas present. Long story short...he has been running this scam for a couple years and I had to have the NY police knock on his door to get my money back ( No good deed goes unpunished ). I have spoken with several others whom bought hunts from him some as high as $15K waiting on refunds at this time.

Although there appears to be a minor difference, sounds as if "Silver Salmon," who posted these messages in the Gun Broker forums beginning 12/11/2015, is you, huh?


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Whom else has gotten scammed by this guy on a 2015 elk hunt? I was leery from the start and should've known better but I bought a couple trips for my boys from Robert "Bob" Ramsay at his Morris, Pa North Mountain Elk Ranch as Christmas presents last fall. Come time for the hunt this fall an Ramsay has nothing but excuses offered to give a hunt in 2016 or refund money...well guess what I haven't seen a check yet to date, just more lame excuses.
He advertises right here on GB and Ebay as well, BEWARE!! BE VERY AWARE!!

_________________

Whether or not it is fenced isn't the question,it is 100% fenced. I bought the trips for my two boys one of which is handicapped and chair bound, they often hunt together and Thomas is as proud of the game he gets as I am of what I get on free range hunts.

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The money is but one issue with Mr. Robert E Ramsay and North Mountain Wild Elk Ranch,his cancelling left the receivers of the gift purchased for them without arrangements for a hunt this fall.
If he was any type of businessman he would've promptly refunded the payments and offered to book a hunt in 2016 for payment upon satisfaction then given an even better hunt for the same money.
EB won't accept auctions from him anymore and GB would be wise to do the same.
My lawyer and the police were already put into action.

___________________-
I wish I could've been a fly on the wall when the Deputy Marshal knocked on Ramsay's door at his residence yesterday! Suddenly he sends an email saying "my check is in the mail"..... may not be an original line from him but now he knows I play hardball...


___________________
Well the NY State Police tracked Ramsay to Elma NY and knocked on his door...today a week later I have my full refund in my hand. As to say I have his check an if that bounces he's got real problems.
Hopefully this thread will show up if someone here at GB does a search on North Mountain BEFORE they send him any money..he also has a web site named Wild Elk

Yes that was/is me. My boys were whom I purchased for...one is my chair bound son the other a client, other son was going along to lend amiable body and support. Doc

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 2th doc:
Yes you did miss something..

He only missed it because you failed to articulate the details!

Thanks for the information about the scam. It's something we'll be sure to avoid.

Sorry to hear of your problem.

Zeke

It appears this outfit has been in business for quite a few years (see link below). Surprising that so few complaints have been posted anywhere on the Internet.

message thread from 2007

Also found this, which began about a year or so ago but had some recent comments including from you as "Terry Murphy," I assume.


YouTube entry

Binder & I he put the video up and I posted comments. Didn't bother to look which one you linked to but he has one under North Mountain and another under Wild Elk.
This is not about me, I merely wish to not see Ramsay continue running his scam. Spoiled something nice I was trying to do for my son and his friend as well as a lot of other guys. I phoned a fellow sportsman last evening from northern Arkansas whom had no idea how to begin the recovery process. I saw his post on one of those videos on Youtube Daivd. Doc

C & P from youtube.....doesn't exactly sound like a ringing endorsement of this obvious shitshow of an operation. I believe this may deserve the status that blair worldwide has achieved here.

Chris Davis 2 weeks ago
We purchased our hunt in June 2014. After paying for the hunt in full, we never received our dates for the fall hunt. After a number of emails and calls to Bob Ramsey, were informed in writing that his computer had failed and we had fallen through the cracks. Informed Ramsey that we were willing to hunt any time except a two week period in January in which we would be out of the country. Naturally, he scheduled us during that two week period saying he misunderstood our written request. It could not have been clearer. Nevertheless, we agreed to hunt on Jan 29th. On Jan 20th, Ramsey notified us his guides had quit and he had to reschedule our hunt. He offered us a prime hunt during the rut and other discounts for our trouble and asked for alternative dates. Finally, in March after a number of emails he confirmed our hunt for Oct 29th. Two additional hunters signed on and paid their fees. On Oct 26th received an urgent message that his guides were again unavailable and he had to reschedule. He claimed to be in Mexico and could do nothing on such short notice. After a very heated email we were rescheduled for Dec 10th of this year. On Oct 30th I received an email stating we were locked in, "you are all set for Dec 10th, Best Regards, Bob." When we arrived at the ranch on Dec 10th, no one was there. We immediately called Ramsey who informed us the hunt had been canceled. His guides were again unavailable and this time he was in China. He claimed to have sent me an email (which I never received nor did any of the other hunters) and there was nothing he could do. He emailed me the next day and offered refunds if we sent our addresses. They were sent and we have received nothing, not even a response. We trusted this guy and got burned. This can all be documented as I have copied all the emails. He is still selling on Gun Broker, I copied that auction also.

I'm amazed the police acted on "copies of his emails".

Do police normally act on a complaint like this? I'm floored that they would knock on his door because you told them he wasn't returning your money and/or giving you the runaround. The guy sounds like a shady businessman but wouldn't he have been within his rights to tell the cops to take a hike?

Any attorneys here care to comment?

Norton, it's called an investigation. The police receive a complaint, including statements and supporting evidence like emails, then they investigate. Knocking on the door and speaking to a person (subject of the investigation) is very simple and can often resolve things quickly and without fuss. Police do not need anything more than reasonable suspicion to investigate for a possible crime. The threshold for reasonable suspicion is lower than that which must be met for probable cause. No warrant is required to knock on a door and make an inquiry. If the man doesn't want to speak to the police he doesn't have to.

Fair enough Grenadier...provided your first sentence wasn't some condescending wisecrack. I'm more than happy to hear that a dispute with financial implications can be resolved without lawyers.

No wisecrack, Norton.

If the police determine it is only a civil dispute and no laws have been broken then lawyers may well become involved by one or both parties.

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
Binder & I he put the video up and I posted comments. Didn't bother to look which one you linked to but he has one under North Mountain and another under Wild Elk.

Yeah, I saw both of Binder's that were uploaded a year ago. Appears the lodge was under construction whenever he went there. It also appears the guy still has an auction listed on Gun Broker.

Someone needs to notify the PA AG if this operation is taking people's money and not supplying the services being sold.

Norton first I went to a magistrate he advised me that he could not legally give advice so I called my lawyer. He suggested contacting my cc companyand also the local police. If I had no luck with either to call him back . The lo all pd looked at the emails and took it from there.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
No wisecrack, Norton.

If the police determine it is only a civil dispute and no laws have been broken then lawyers may well become involved by one or both parties.

Roger that. I recently filed in small claims against a patient for around $4k....she paid in full within days of receiving notice. Can't tell you how much I didn't want to call my attorney.


2th doc.....sounds like you have a good attorney.

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
North Mountain Elk Ranch, Wild Elk Ranch, ElkWorld2000, or any other name Robert E Ramsay from Elma NY operates his elk ranch in Morris,Pa. under...it is a scam advertised on EBay and GunBroker.
I bought a couple of his "promo" hunts as gifts for some clients. They are high fenced elk preserve shoots, I knew this before purchasing them. My clients are handicapped an I wished to give them an outing for an early Christmas present. Long story short...he has been running this scam for a couple years and I had to have the NY police knock on his door to get my money back ( No good deed goes unpunished ). I have spoken with several others whom bought hunts from him some as high as $15K waiting on refunds at this time.

PM sent

and returned

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:
C & P from youtube.....doesn't exactly sound like a ringing endorsement of this obvious shitshow of an operation. I believe this may deserve the status that blair worldwide has achieved here.

Chris Davis 2 weeks ago
We purchased our hunt in June 2014. After paying for the hunt in full, we never received our dates for the fall hunt. After a number of emails and calls to Bob Ramsey, were informed in writing that his computer had failed and we had fallen through the cracks. Informed Ramsey that we were willing to hunt any time except a two week period in January in which we would be out of the country. Naturally, he scheduled us during that two week period saying he misunderstood our written request. It could not have been clearer. Nevertheless, we agreed to hunt on Jan 29th. On Jan 20th, Ramsey notified us his guides had quit and he had to reschedule our hunt. He offered us a prime hunt during the rut and other discounts for our trouble and asked for alternative dates. Finally, in March after a number of emails he confirmed our hunt for Oct 29th. Two additional hunters signed on and paid their fees. On Oct 26th received an urgent message that his guides were again unavailable and he had to reschedule. He claimed to be in Mexico and could do nothing on such short notice. After a very heated email we were rescheduled for Dec 10th of this year. On Oct 30th I received an email stating we were locked in, "you are all set for Dec 10th, Best Regards, Bob." When we arrived at the ranch on Dec 10th, no one was there. We immediately called Ramsey who informed us the hunt had been canceled. His guides were again unavailable and this time he was in China. He claimed to have sent me an email (which I never received nor did any of the other hunters) and there was nothing he could do. He emailed me the next day and offered refunds if we sent our addresses. They were sent and we have received nothing, not even a response. We trusted this guy and got burned. This can all be documented as I have copied all the emails. He is still selling on Gun Broker, I copied that auction also.

Norton:

That scumbag Heathington did come to mind when I first read this.