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Over the time I have been a member of AR, I have observed what seems to be a divisionary attitude concerning the acceptance some folks have in regards to other members status as a hunter, based upon where/what they have hunted. Even the rocks don't last forever. | ||
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Wow, Could fun be had with this topic. Perhaps you’ve hear the old joke about the cowboy and the lesbian. Seems this ol’ cowpoke was getting up in years and had come into town on a Friday afternoon somewhat early. He’d stopped at the local watering hole and was sitting at the bar nursing a beer. Next thing he notes looking at the mirror over the bar in front of him is this woman. He figures she’s in her late twenties. She is definitely out of place. She has on skin tight spandex, and a crop top and four inch heels. All is black. She sits down on the stool next to the cowboy, smiles and tells the bartender she wants a tequila shot and a beer. After she orders she looks at the ol’ cowboy and asks. Are you a cowboy. Well the old fellow looks at her, smiles, as he is used to city folk passing through asking this same question. He tells her, ma’am, I get up in the morning, have toast and coffee, saddle my horse and climb on. I ride most all day checking the fences, looking for stray cows. I round em’ up, I brand em’, I look for them when they are lost. I break bronc when it’s necessary. Been doing that for near on 45 year. Well, sez the woman. I’m a lesbian. I get up in the morning thinking about women. I spend my day thinking about women. I think about women till I go to bed. She shoots her shot, downs her beer, then gets up and leaves. A few minutes later another person sits down next to the cowboy, and proceeds to ask, “Are you a cowboy. The old fellow looks at the newcomer and says. You know, all my life I thought I was a cowboy. I just found out I was a lesbian. Would a person who goes to Africa or some exotic clime once ever few years and uses the services of a professional guide/hunter to put him on game be considered a hunter. What about a person here in the states that books a hunt for a big game animal with a guide and goes once or twice a year, stays in a lodge with attending staff and is guaranteed a kill. Is he considered a hunter. What about a person that shoots constantly, avails himself of quality equipment, hones his skills for the purpose of developing confidence and ability. That person may never or rarely leave his state of residence, and even though he may be a city dweller has ordered his life so as to be able to be afield in the pursuit of indigenous game sixty days a year plus. He may never take a trophy, but he hunts because it is literally called out of him by his maker. In consideration of the preceding anecdote, I’d say, whether one is a hunter is a state of mind. If much of your life is spent in the contemplation of hunting and then putting your thoughts into action, you are a hunter. If you only give it a random thought from time to time, not so much. JMHO Best GWB PS: from Wikipedia---- Hunting is the practice of pursuing any living thing, usually wildlife or feral animals, by humans for food, recreation, or trade. | |||
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Excellent post GWB! | |||
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How's about how many decades you've been at this on a regular basis. I didn't see that one. What the "book" is, is about the last thing I'd care about. Oh, now I see. None of the above. | |||
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Great response Geedubya, Many Thanks for your comments. Not just on this site, but on all the various hunting and fishing related sites I have been looking at or participating on since I got started, there seems to be individuals, that try and measure other hunters, or should I say other individuals that consider themselves hunters, in a strange manner to say the least. The questions on the poll are just a few basic aspects that I have seen brought into play on the various sites. While it may not be accurate or intentional, there does seem, in my opinion at least a prejudice toward individuals that have never hunted in Africa. However that is only one of the various aspects. Personal choice of equipment used/cost of equipment used/record book animals versus representative specimens/free range versus high fence/guided-outfitted hunts versus D-I-Y/methods used. Some of it may be just friendly rivalry but some of it seems, again in my opinion, to be more of a " I am a hunter and you are not because of ________________________". Such things as using a compound bow or a crossbow versus a traditional re-curve or long bow, using minimal calibers versus using larger than actually needed calibers, it is possible I am confusing possible discrimination with elitism. How we, as individuals view ourselves in regards to whether we are Hunters or not, in my opinion is one thing. How other Hunters view and re-act/respond to each other, how they define each other as to whether they consider other individuals as actually being a Hunter or not is something that I feel needs to be addressed. Again, Thanks for the comments Geedubya.  Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Holy shit Batman.All these years I thought I was a Hunter!!! | |||
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Very, very well said Geedubya! As the poll sits at this moment(24 vote for "None of the above" and 0 votes for the first three choices) it is clear that very few of us believe that any one factor makes someone a real hunter". On the other hand, we are fooling ourselves if we claim that those "accomplishments" don't color our view of other hunters. Why else would we see so much name dropping(ie. "On my second 21 day safari in Tanzania....." or "21 of the 25 elk I have killed were 300 or better....")? When someone has a long list of accomplishments we tend to value their opinion over the opinion of someone with less experience. More experience/accomplishments make a person an authority, but it doesn't make them more of a "real hunter". Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Experience is the key but how much is a matter of opinion. Once a hunter gets to a certain point he should be able to be effective no matter what game he is hunting. If one can spot and stock or still hunt up game no matter the type he should be able do do it with others. But then if the hunters only experience is haveing other guide and show him what to shoot then he is more a shooter then hunter. Or sitting watching a feeder he is a shooter. IMHO the guide is the actual hunter the person paying him is just along to shoot the game the guide found. I said it before once the game if found then its all shooting from there. | |||
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A better question is "what makes a great hunting PARTNER?" My deer hunting pal has never hunted outside of the country and for him going to South Carolina to hunt deer and turkeys is a big deal. But every year I venture north to spend a week at the deer shack with him. We still talk about the day his dad shot the big one... | |||
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Yep. And yes, great post GW! JUST A TYPICAL WHITE GUY BITTERLY CLINGING TO GUNS AND RELIGION Definition of HOPLOPHOBIA "I'm the guy that originally wrote the 'assault weapons' ban." --- Former Vice President Joe Biden | |||
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Sorry, never claimed to be the sharpest knife in the drawer. I don't know however, which is worse, discrimination or elitism, or is there really a difference between the two? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I'm not much of a hunter by most peoples standards I poured every hour and dollar I could for most of my adult life raising two boys. I have sold 45 to 50+ hours of my life every week for the past 25 years as a tool and die maker/machinist/welder and plan on continuing to do so for quite some time longer. What money and time that is left over after family maters is put towards shooting, hunting, and fishing I can say with no embarrassment whatsoever that Im not much of a hunter I love to shoot, hunt, and fish but they are hobbies that I plan and hope to do till death do us part. I dont collect guns or deer scores as a measure of my life....I am however trying my damndest to collect memories of good times before I take a dirt nap ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Great statement Ted! No, you are a true hunter. Your two sons are blessed to have a father like you. I lived the same, but with four sons.  Life is nothing more than a collection of memories. And the outdoors has provided volumns!
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Have no way of knowing for sure Ted, but from my experience, I would be willing to bet that the majority of American hunters operate pretty closely under similar conditions as the ones you described above. That was a good response, Thank You. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I like this one. Another way of putting it is, the quality of the companionship, or, who all you've really enjoyed the most hunting with. And that's a HUGE factor, excepting for those what like to hunt by themselves. Which I never cared for much. Kind of lonely like that. At any rate, I see "none of the above" is still doing pretty good. | |||
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I made mention of timing in another thread and in going back and reading some of the foregoing posts on this thread I am once again reminded of that same thought as expressed by a wise man in the past… 3 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: 2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace. 9 What profit hath he that worketh in that wherein he laboureth? 10 I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it. 11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end. 12 I know that there is no good in them, but for a man to rejoice, and to do good in his life. 13 And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God. 14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. I count myself as being blessed. I was fortunate enough that even though I worked up to 16 hours a day, many times six days a week (I was self employed and I didn’t have to pay me) for years, I was still able to experience the joys of sharing the outdoors ,hunting and fishing with my kids.  They say the acorn don’t fall far from the tree. My oldest started dogging my tracks when he was six. I’d get up early at our farm and take off for the creek to hunt wood ducks and squirrels. He’d be right there with me. Like his dad, hunting is literally called out of him. He is 30 now. He is also self-employed, and like most 30 year olds with a young family, money is tight. I have let him take one of my bucks each year for the last upteen years. I can take two bucks at this lease. I’ve let him take my bucks the last two years. I guess I’m at the time of my life where it’s acceptable to experience his joy and excitement.  2011  2012 And to add to an old mans’ pleasure, my grandson, Glenn IV.  From all indications, he’s already got the bug.   Finally, on hunting buddies. Once again I have been blessed as I have been able to hunt with a group of good guys each season for the last 13 years.  And I have had a particular friend that I’ve had the pleasure of calling “my hunting buddy for quite a spell. We’re as different as, well, Mutt and Jeff.  Here we are after a tough day of stalking monster hill country 11 pointers. (I’m the short fat bald guy). In the past I have heard at least one of our wives say we spend more time together hunting than we do talking with them. They ask from time to time what we talk about. What they don’t know is that good buds know each other so well, they don’t have to talk (incessantly anyway). Hunting is Life is good. Thanks for allowing me to reminisce. Best GWB | |||
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I had to choose "none of the above". Like many others, I have been blessed with being able to enjoy hunting in many places and for many types of animals. But that did not make me a hunter. Hunting lots of locations does not make you a hunter. Shooting lots of different species of game does not make you a hunter. Putting lots of animals into some type of record book does not make you a hunter. Being a hunter, rather than simply being a killer of game, is a mindset. I am a hunter. My father and grandfather taught me a huge respect for the power and beauty of nature. To respect the natural way and the cycle of life. To understand how everything has a place and a niche that it fills and how they link together. I always wanted to be a part of that. So, I find myself most alive when I watch a marsh come alive on a frosty morning. When I see a bull elk slipping through dark timber. When the geese flock up and fly south, filling the sky with their calls. When I see the coyote chasing mice in the snow or watch an osprey dive for a fish. This is when I am alive. Into the field I will go. Sometimes alone. Sometimes with others. I may go in search of a deer or maybe a rabbit. Maybe I'm not looking for anything but just entering the natural realm. Maybe I will be successful and fulfill my role as predator and maybe I won't. It doesn't matter because the cycle will continue. And I will take joy in watching a child's eyes open to the majesty of nature. Or when a non-hunter opens their mind and understands why I take joy in being wet, cold and tired. Then I know, I have done my part in the cycle, for the cycle of life is eternal. It has no beginning and it has no end. It simply is what it is. I am a hunter simply for the sake of being a hunter and for no other reason. I care little if my reasons for being a hunter are the same as your reasons for being a hunter. To each his own. | |||
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None of the above. In my opinion, someone who can do a backpack DIY elk hunt in the high country (or moose in Alaska) and comes back successful most years (even if he/she is only meat hunting) or still hunts whitetails or black bear in the Adirondacks is as much a hunter as anyone who has collected lots of species. Though I would guess that if money was no object, many of the above hunters would be spending time in exotic locales chasing trophies as well. I admire and envy every one of them except when I'm out hunting myself. Best Regards Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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I usually don't get involved with this sort of disucssion, especially when "hunter" vs. "shooter" argument is brought up. But here's my take on it. Some people tend to look at hunting as if were some sort of sport, game or competition. It is not. Sports and games are played according to a rigid set of rules. Parameters such as the configuration of the playing field and the size and shape of the ball are well defined. If you hit a golf ball with a hockey stick you aren't playing football, at least according to the rule book. There are many laws that spell out what you can't do while hunting but there is no 'rule book' as such to define how hunting is to be done. A rule book isn't necessary because there are only 2 basic ways to hunt: go look for the animal or wait somewhere and let the animal come to you. Shooter VS. Hunter If you don't hunt effectively, you won't get the chance to be a shooter. If you don't plan on shooting, you're not really hunting. Who is or isn't a "hunter." Is person required to expend a certain amount of effort in order to 'qualify' as a hunter? What about someone who was the victim of a terrible accident or debilitating medical condition. After months of intesive physical therapy and much effort they are barely able to sit in a wheelchair overlooking a bait pile and shoot a doe or spike buck. Just about anyone would consider that person a 'hunter.' What if a fit and healty 22 year old ex-Army Ranger did the same thing in the same way? Is he still a hunter even if he was able to put much more effort than he did? I went on my first hunt in October 1970 and didn't kill anything until November 1979. My Dad (rest his soul) did not encourage my interest in hunting in any way. He tried to dampen my enthuasism with lurid descriptions about how gross gutting an animal is. Getting out at all to hunt was a great challange to this city boy but I stuck with it. During that entirely-bloodless decade I kept asking myself the qustion: "Am I a real hunter or not." In reterospect that was a very stupid question. I took it up entirely on my own, with zero encouragement, and stuck with it despite many challenges. How could I not be considered a 'real' hunter? During my travels I've met lots of guys who grew up on farms and ranches. Great hunting opportunities could be found right outside the back door and chances are they got their first gun before their first bicycle. Is it fair for somebody who grew up in such a circumstance to look down on a 'city boy' who shot his first deer (a 6 month old fawn) at age 24? Is it fair for me to look down on the ranch kid because he had his opportunity to hunt handed to him? No and no. We're both hunters and share a common interest despite our different backgrounds. That said, there is an old saying about "There are those who hunt and those who are hunters." I suppose the difference is in ones' own mind. I've gone fishing, and caught fish, but I don't consdier myself a fisherman. No longer Bigasanelk | |||
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It has to be imaginary as this site is not real world and all.  | |||
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I hunt because I must. I will hunt until I can't. Bill Quimby | |||
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Why does it matter what anyone else thinks? I hunt because it pleases me. AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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The best hunter I have known mostly hunted turkeys. He was a big man and moved through the oak woods like a ghost. He never hunted anywhere but in Virginia and mostly in one county. He told me how to get my first deer. He guided Pentagon brass and astronuats turkey hunting. I miss him. R.I.P. O.C.Crabtree | |||
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There're a lot of hunting partners I miss. Man, the stories they could tell and I could tell about them. I think about them at times...and some of the stuff we did. Without them I would never have gotten as much out of hunting, so I have to rate the "companionship" factor as MOST important. ..even today my wife asks "what are you chuckling about", and I say, "oh, just something that (add the name of one of your long gone favorite pals) did or said on that hunting trip in the 1980s, and I know you've heard that story before but it really was funny"... | |||
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The fact is, each of us alive today owes his existence to the hunters in his family. The other unassailable fact is we are all hunters. The difference is some heed the call in their breast while others do not and some, sadly, have been raised to believe no such call harkens to them. | |||
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Because if we are going to convince Non-Hunters, not the Anti's, that hunting is a Human Tradition worth saving, we have to as a group put away some of the pernicious rhetoric about who is or who isn't a Hunter. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I would say that anyone who must ask others to tell him whether or not he should consider himself to be a hunter, is probably not a hunter. Myself ... I've never had any doubts. At all! | |||
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I think if you go into the field with a weapon and your intent is to shoot something your a hunter. Some just accomplish that in different ways and some folks have more experience or experiences than others. I think I was just as much a hunter when I was trying to jump shoot ducks across the road from where I grew up at 12 years old as I was when I used to get dropped off in the wilderness to hunt moose and bear in AK or when I shot my second lion in Zambia this last year. There is no one size fits all and if anybody thinks that the way they do it makes them a "real" hunter as opposed to someone else who does it differently they are the elitist whether they only hunt for meat or have won some SCI pinnacle award. We are all hunters. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Anyone who hunts in their own way can call themselves a hunter.It doesent matter if they sit in a blind over corn to shoot feral pigs or climb the Caucacus mountains in search of Dagastan Tur or hunt leopard or lion in Zimbabwe.That is up to them.The poll doesent have a choice for those who work their asses off to be able to hunt around the world.If you havent made enough money to do so thats ok but dont create polls to make traveling hunters look bad.You skewed it in the direction of the poor hunter to make yourself look smart. | |||
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Yes Sir, I really skewed things. 77 votes, 1 voted for the number of locations hunted and 1 voted for the number of "book" trophies killed. 75 people including myself picked none of the above. Yes, I guess in some individuals imaginary little world that makes them look bad. In looking at the responses however, the majority don't judge who is or isn't a hunter. Too bad more people can't accept that type concept. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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You should have titled this thread "poor folks who dont work hard enough to hunt anything besides pigs".Lazy Horse Lazy Horse Lazy Horse. Im really sorry you are so poor and cant afford to hunt anything out of your county.Better retirement planning might have helped.Keep "hunting"and "guiding"for those barnyard pigs and call it hunting. | |||
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Huntincats, Lord luv ya , I certainly resemble that remark! LOL             Let's see, go to Alaska, Africa or stay home and shoot hogs till September, then do a 10 day ride with my buds up the east coast and then to Nova Scotia? Then come back, buy more guns, and shoot more hogs the rest of the year.  Ridin' hogs comes pretty close to bein' as much fun as shooting them. oh yeah, I prefer the term 'po folks. Best GWB | |||
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Didn't know we was 'po folk till later on but when I was a kid We lived in a house SOOO small we had to go outside to exchange glances! | |||
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R, have you heard the one about pa, ma, Willie and sister Sue. They was po' folks from Smackover Arkansas. So po’ they almost never had anything but greens and taters. One night Pa came upon a deer that had been hit by a truck. He grabbed it, brought it home and skint’ it out. Ma fixed it for dinner. They all sit down at the table to eat. Pa is beaming,. So is Ma. Willie, being young and having never seen meat before, asks what it is. Pa says to Willie, its what your Ma sometimes calls me. Willie looks confused as he forks a spoonful into his mouth. Sister Sue yells at brother Wille saying. Spit it out Willie, it’s asshole. For as long as I remember I've told folks my folks were so poor when I was born that they couldn't afford a name for me, just initials. Best GWB | |||
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Too true | |||
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huntingcats, what seems to be the problem? You seem to never miss an opportunity to go after crazyhorse. Here's a piece of advice. If you don't care for the man, his posts, his thought process, his name, the way he dresses, his hobbies, whatever, stay away from him. Simply ignore him. You're going to get an ulcer at this rate. Also, I hunt hogs year round. It's a way to stay much sharper with regards to field craft and marksmanship in the off-season. More so than the guy who dusts his deer rifle off the night before opening day. huntingcats, have you ever hunted wild hogs? They are a boatload smarter than whitetail, and their nose is much harder to fool. Don't disparage hunting feral pigs, unless you have done it and find it truly distasteful. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Thanks for that Whitworth. I voted "none of the above". I grew up pretty much like Bigasanelk. My dad didn't hunt, but I could occaisionally go hunting for squirrels with some of my uncles. We lived in the city and really were poor for most of my childhood. Not that I knew it until later in life. When I grew up, I wanted to hunt but never had the time or opportunity. Then I married my wife. She is a girl from west Texas. She grew up more around hunting and shooting and trapping (mainly trapping armadillos). I had a high stress job when we got married, 12 hours a day, 6-7 days a week. For our first anniversary, she bought me a new Model 1100. Her words were, "you have enough stress in your life, now go shoot something. You will feel better." And so it began. I asked everyone who would listen about where to go and what to hunt. I finally got a job working for a rancher that also owned a dog food plant. He has 1800 acres that he now considers I have leased. But I have to work for it. I fix fences, work in the stock yard when I am up there, etc. I am grateful for every minute. I have fortunate enough to buy some land of my own in Missouri as well. When I hunt, I mainly still go to get away, be aroung good friends and pit myself against the wildlife as much as possible. I started going with pistols and muzzleloaders to make it more challenging. I have been elk hunting as well as deer and hog hunting. I still do not make a great amount of money, so I save for the year to go hog hunting every year or two with a bunch of guys I met on the internet. Sometimes I can't go every year due to owning our own business, but that is a great time for me. I would almost rather hunt hogs than deer. Since the kids are out of college, I may get to go more. Heck, in my ramblings I may even see Crazyhorse.  Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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I hear ya JR, we were so poor growing up my parents cut the pocket out of my blue jeans just so I'd have something to play with | |||
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****Now that is funny and I don't care who you are, LOL! | |||
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