What as an individual, is the real definitive concept of hunting?

Even though I was born and raised in Texas, and even though I have nothing against anyone referring to how we do things down here, most of what we do, does not fall into what I consider to be hunting.

To me as an individual I view hunting as a situation where I may or may not be successful in killing something. I do not delude myself that what I am doing is "Fair Chase". Something about being able to deliver death from several hundred yards away, does not seem to be very fair.

In my own little world, strolling thru a several hundred or thousand acre pasture looking for a javelina and then putting a stalk on one is a hunt. Walking up to a group of javelina feeding at a corn line that I had placed in the pasture, while interesting and for folks that have never done it fairly exciting, is in all actuality not a hunt.

In my definition, the more the hunter stacks in his/her favor to increase their odds of success, the less of an actual hunting experience it becomes.

So what in your estimation constitutes hunting and why. Where does the experience change,. if it does from being a hunt to being just a kill.

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In my definition, the more the hunter stacks in his/her favor to increase their odds of success, the less of an actual hunting experience it becomes.

CHC, while I agree with you in principle, fair chase for whom? Until 6 years ago when some rocks rolled under my right leg causing me to ruin my right knee I would have gone along with your stroll and try and spot game. I did that way for many years. Today it's not so simple. Walking any great distnce soon becomes painfull and arthritis in my right hip doesn't help one damn bit. No flame intended but I think "fair chase" should be geared to what a person is physically capable of doing. I fit 20 yar old should maybe held to a different standard than to a 74 year old man with bad knee and hip who still loves to hunt whatever it takes.
I know a fellow who was injured in such a way that he can no longer walk. He hunts from the back of a pick up truck on private property with reletives. Sometimes they play him on a stand and try to drive game to him, depending on where on the ranch they're hunting. No one shoot a deer until he has his on the ground. What's unfair bout that.
Like I said, I agree with you in principle but with reservations.
Pul B.

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What as an individual, is the real definitive concept of hunting?

Maybe the easiest way to define hunting is to spell out what it isn't..

Hunting is NOT a game, sport or competition. As a hunter, I have nothing to lose (unless I do something really stupid) and the individual creature that I seek has nothing to gain. We both have our respective skills but they are quite disparate. There have been times when the animal has no chance to survive at all and at other time I had no chance to succeed. The outcome was in doubt until the very moment that the shot hit its mark. I'm happy if the animal leaps up and falls dead in a heap and I'm also happy if it leaps up and runs away unharmed.

It is that element of uncertainty that defines hunting for me.

There are many forms of hunting, spot and stalk, sitting in a prime spot waiting for the sun to come up, still hunting, hunting over bait, from a blind, etc.

To me the essence of hunting is still hunting throught the black timber after and elk or bear that I have spotted, but often is one or several steps ahead of me. Occassionaly, I get them, more often than not, I don't... Nothing in hunting gets my senses keener, makes me quieter, or puts a kind of serene excitement through me than that.

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CHC, while I agree with you in principle, fair chase for whom?

That is what I am trying to get everyone to determine. I am not a trophy hunter per se, because for me, the "Trophy" is did I achieve my goal of killing something.

I am not picky. The only animals I have had measured were for the purpose of giving Lora an idea what an individual set of antlers might sell for on my passing.

Everyone does not view hunting from the same aaspect, so I am curious as to how each of us does view hunting.

For myself, going out and setting in a blind watching a timed feeder go off, is not hunting.

Yes, I make $$ from folks doing that very thing, and I have no problem, with them calling it hunting.

If I am doing it for myself, it is murder, plain and simple. Boone & Crockett does NOT have a measurement system for does, at least I do not think they do.

Paul B, don't know how old you are but I am fixing to turn 62 and I had a complete knee replacement on my left leg in 2006.

The point is, it has nothing to do with what the "Peanut Gallery" thinks, it has to do with what YOU consider hunting.

If you are enjoying what you are doing and have no problem with it, then that is hunting, to you. Should I or anyone else tell you that you are wrong???

Not NO, but Hell No.

This is what I am trying to find out. What or why do folks define hunting under a certain set of criteria, and how can that criteria apply to everyone.

I hunt for moral mushrooms.When I find them I pick them.I hunt for deer.When I find one I kill it any legal way possible. Fair chase is some bullshit term someone made up to make them self feel good about killing something.I hunt to kill and kill to eat and eat what I kill.We raise our own chickens ,goats ,pigs kill them and eat them.No difference ,except I know who processed the meat and how it was fed.No Walt Disney fantasies in our house.

Hunting is sitting in a box blind with a heater over a timed feeder and ambushing deer when they come to eat. If you want to hunt hard, skip the heater. I hunt hard.

To me, hunting is a lot like gardening...only bloodier.

Very interesting thread.

For me, I think the concept of hunting changes with time, experience and maturity.

When I was a lot younger and starting out with big game hunting, I shot any deer that stumbled across my path. I didn't really know what I was doing and I had no one to mentor me. I would drive around and shoot what I could find or pull into a farm field and wait it out. When I was younger, this was hunting.

As I got older and learned more about the craft through reading, talking with others and just plain old boots on the ground experience, I spent less time in the truck and a lot more time stalking my quarry. I got to the point where hunting was not just about killing something, but enjoying the walk in the woods, or watching the sun rise or set over a field or glen. It was about being out in nature and enjoying the beauty. But it was still about bringing something home. But now I was getting pickier. I now learned to be patient and not to shoot the first buck that strolled out in front of my gun. I was still hunting for meat and trophies be-damned.

I am now in the middle of my years and with my wife as my hunting partner, (how many of you folks can say you get to sleep with your hunting partner LOL), and now that we own land, hunting has taken yet a new meaning. I have come to learn that Mother Nature is cruel to all its children and it is kinder to fall to a well placed shot. Hunting for me is now, year round. With or without a rifle. Walking the trails of our property, I am always looking for sign; for ears and tails flicking in just behind a leaf or tree. Sneaking up into the pea field to see if I can spy a dow and fawn/s enjoying a free meal. And when the leaves come off the trees and the cold weather and snow once again return, I am again down the trails and sitting in homemade ground blinds waiting for the old monarchs to pass silently bye while I wait. I have now come to realize that soon these old antlered fellows will be at the mercy of mother nature and I believe I am doing them a kindness. Perhaps the meat won't be as tender but, with the years, I have also learned how to better prepare my table fair. And if by chance the old monarchs are better at this game this year, then so be it. I will have seen all the new young up and comers prancing in the forest and fields chasing all the four legged ladies and for me, that is good enough. I am at an age where I now understand that trophie hunting is about trying to out-fox the ones with all the wisdom and experience of playing hide and seek.

One final note. When I was younger, my proudest moment was shooting two deer in a farmer’s field from 360 metres with my 375HH, with two bullets.
Now that I am older, my crowning achievement has been to shoot, from a homemade ground blind of spruce bows, a nice old buck from less than 30 feet with my double rifle, and the buck completely unaware of the situation.

Kind regards,

Carpediem

Some really good answers. To me spot and stalk for anything is what I consider real hunting. I have the equipment and the ability to make 300 yard shots, but, if I can turn that 300 yard shot into a 300 foot shot or a 30 yard shot by using the wind/terrain and cover, that is my idea of hunting heaven.

Setting out a spread of decoys on cold and cloudy day and listening to the whistle of the wings as the birds work their way in while it is still too dark to shoot is another form of nirvanma too me.

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For me, I think the concept of hunting changes with time, experience and maturity.

This is a very good and descriptive statement that iss about as real as it gets. Whether thru aging, health issues, moving to a new area or state, job/economic status change, marital or other family related change in a person's life and I am sure there are others, but things or events happen to all of us in our lives that cause us to re-evaluate how we think or feel about such activities like hunting or fishing.

With the majority of us I believe ageing and health play the most signifigant roles in how we think about hunting and our level of participation in it.

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Hunting is NOT a game, sport or competition.

This sentiment is one I firmly believe in, up to the point, that I believe hunting today is under some of the attacks that we are experiencing because of its being referred to as a sport/game and all the emphasis that is placed on what a set of antlers score. Under normal circumstances in a game/competition/sport the participants are usually on some level of equal footing and one of them or one team does not die.

Hunting is now and always has been the definitive aspect of human evolution that allowed us to become the dominant species on the planet. Admittedly we no longer have to hunt to survive, but I don't buy into the concept that it should be treated as a "sport". That is just my opinion on it, I just think more harm than good has been done by trying to pass hunting off as a "Competitive Sport".

Enough of my rant. It is interesting to find out how other hunters from other parts of the country/world consider what is or is not hunting to them or what form of hunting they enjoy the most.

Thanks for your participation.

OK - how about with a wooden flint tipped spear, wearing only a loincloth, riding a wild mustang, followed by a beautiful woman swinging through the trees, while holding a chimpanzee, in pursuit of a jackalope

Hunting for me is a year long preperation...

From eating right, running and lifting to keep my 42 year old body in shape and working to it's best.

To applying for tags 6 months in advance in another state or paying a property owner 400 miles away in my own state for a deer lease every year one year in advance.

Hanging stands , load development for the rifles I plan on using and the work that goes into shooting your bow to be a very good shot.

I hunt 99% alone....I do enjoy just getting out but to me I can kill as many doe as I care to buy a $7 tag for and my freezers are full year round so that good buck is what I'm working all year for.

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Originally posted by
So what in your estimation constitutes hunting and why. Where does the experience change,. if it does from being a hunt to being just a kill.

I consider my hunting skills kind of limited, most of the time I do best by finding where to look for game, and arranging things so I am hidden there with a sandwich and a water bag at the appropriate time. It's also an opportunity for a week-long road trip, a few Utah peaches along the way, and a few evenings yakking around a campfire. Things change; the area we usually hunt isn't what it was 20 years ago, and we've adapted, sometimes reluctantly.

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This sentiment is one I firmly believe in, up to the point, that I believe hunting today is under some of the attacks that we are experiencing because of its being referred to as a sport/game and all the emphasis that is placed on what a set of antlers score. Under normal circumstances in a game/competition/sport the participants are usually on some level of equal footing and one of them or one team does not die.

EXACTLY! If I understand it correctly, the Boone and Crockett Club was originally supposed to honor the animal because it was an exceptional specimen of the species. This concept has been bastardized because some people with wealth consider it an important part of their ego trip. I've heard tales of people paying enormous sums for record book heads that have yet to be entered in the "book".
How many deer, elk and other game animals have been poached for their heads and bought by some dude with the cash, who then claims it as having be shot in "fair chase"? I see no problem with entering the animal but not the hunter's name. Too mnay have abused this system to allow it to go on.
BTW CHC, you asked, I'm 74. I would not only have to do the knee surgery but replace my right hip as well. Not looking forward to doing all that anytime soon.
Paul B.

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OK - how about with a wooden flint tipped spear, wearing only a loincloth, riding a wild mustang, followed by a beautiful woman swinging through the trees, while holding a chimpanzee, in pursuit of a jackalope

If that is your thing go for it. Only problem I see is that normal jackalope habitat is damn short on trees and chimpanzees.

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I see no problem with entering the animal but not the hunter's name.

Paul, if I remember correctly there was talk back in the mid to late 70's early 80's by some of the B&C PTB's during that time period, to do just that, recognise the animal but not list the name of the hunter.

It did not happen however, and I am not sure that was a good move.

Looking at things from a more realistic POV however, I wonder what shape hunting would be in today if the "Sport" element had not been introduced?

As much as I believe there have been negative effects with the introduction of the sport/competetiveness aspect into the hunting field, I believe it also created some interest and attracted some folks to hunting. My main concern is what happens to all those folks and all that interest once the trophies can no longer bested with something bigger.

As to the possibility of surgeries it hurts and it lays you up for a spell, but in my case, of course it was just my knee, the hip was not involved, but it was the best thing that I ever did. Hope it all works for the best for you.

Hunting is NOT a game or a sport it's a way of life passed down for generations, fair chase is what you make of it as the older you get the harder it gets.

A bad knee here along with a total shoulder replacement had me buying a quad and driving more and shooting farther, but I try to never let my mind over load my ass as them hills have now turned into mountins.

I would like to see B&C no longer put names score and area shot only, if they did that I might enter a couple of mule deer and a lope.

RESPECT THE GAME IT'S NOT KILL AT ALL COST.

It seems all of you have forgotten that, at one time, hunting was for the priviliged, the wealthy, the royalty. If a peasant wereto be caught poaching, it was usually a death sentance. for those that could hunt it was considered sport. Somthing to fill the time, to stem the boredom. I just watched a short clip on you tube about duck hunting in Britian and the shots being taken were not at the ducks closest to the muzzle but at the extreme reach of the gun,"so as to give the birds a sporting chance".

We in Noth America call it hunting because the first settlers needed to hunt to survive. In the old country it was a sporting activity for the idle rich. And as was pointed out, the wealthy are once again turning hunting, here in North America into a sport.

Regards,

Carpediem4570

Most everyone grows up hunting the way their family, friends & neighbors hunt & every area has a different tradition. Some parts of the country people drive the deer to friends who are waiting in the thick stuff, others use dogs to run the deer out so they can get a decent shot.
Some have to use a blind & feeders because they might be hunting a very small (or large) parcel thats private & the owner doesn't want the game run off by having hunters walk around stalking game. In my neck of the woods (Idaho) we usually glass for game & then make a stalk, we seldom ever "drive" game or use blinds, its all a different way of hunting in different parts of the US.
If its legal in your state, whats the beef? If you don't like someone else's way of hunting don't go there. When I was first stationed in Texas back in the 60's I told everyone...... I'll never hunt from a blind, I like spot & stalk, well, if you're going to hunt Texas you do it their way or you don't hunt, period!
Tell one of them Texans it ain't sporting to use a blind & feeders but be sure to have your guard up so you can block the punch.

Dick

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Originally posted by Bigasanelk:

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What as an individual, is the real definitive concept of hunting?

Maybe the easiest way to define hunting is to spell out what it isn't..

Hunting is NOT a game, sport or competition. As a hunter, I have nothing to lose (unless I do something really stupid) and the individual creature that I seek has nothing to gain. We both have our respective skills but they are quite disparate. There have been times when the animal has no chance to survive at all and at other time I had no chance to succeed. The outcome was in doubt until the very moment that the shot hit its mark. I'm happy if the animal leaps up and falls dead in a heap and I'm also happy if it leaps up and runs away unharmed.

It is that element of uncertainty that defines hunting for me.

Very good.

I have hunted 4 high fence properties, 2 in Maine and 2 in Namibia.

1 in Maine was a "chip shot" 40 acres, couldn't get away from it soon enough.

The second 1 one was as tough as hunting in Maine gets.

In Namibia one was in the Kalahari and it was probably a 1000 acres, but it was Kansas flat and the animals were fairly tame. Not much different than the 40 acres in Maine.

The 2nd in Namibia was over 10,000 acres and it was as wild as anywhere in the world.

Hunting antelope where we do it it at Home in Wyoming is of fairly high certainty, hunting mature mule deer where we do it takes luck, skill and tons of determination. Far more than any place I have ever hunted before.

I have spent a lot of time in Europe sitting in a high seat, it isn't a very appealing method of hunting to me. Though it works, and I know it is a popular method to take wildlife in Central Europe and the Eastern half of the United States.

I grew up hunting horseback in the wilderness areas for elk, to me this is what hunting is all about, I was suprised to learn growing up that what I experienced is a true rareity.

To me hunting denotes a ideal that you may or may not come home with game.

To me hunting hogs with NVGs for pig control, arial gunning of hogs, coyotes and wolves and trapping are not hunting they are predator/pig management.

I don't think archery is superior to rifle hunting, or muzzle loader hunting, or handgun hunting or hunting with spears.

There will be times like elk during the rut where an archer as an incredable advantage not usually given to rifle hunters. Montana has done studies showing that they had to limit archery elk hunts because the archers were shooting more bulls than the rifle hunters were.


I think states like New Mexico and Arizona that treat rifle hunters like bastard children are wrong.

As for archery only areas on public land this is also bullshit. If it is inside the city limits I don't have a problem with that, but in a rural area it is BS.

We really need to come together as hunters, are rights are not only being eroded by the nonhunting public but by eachother.

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Originally posted by Hunt-ducks:
Hunting is NOT a game or a sport it's a way of life passed down for generations, fair chase is what you make of it as the older you get the harder it gets.

A bad knee here along with a total shoulder replacement had me buying a quad and driving more and shooting farther, but I try to never let my mind over load my ass as them hills have now turned into mountins.

I would like to see B&C no longer put names score and area shot only, if they did that I might enter a couple of mule deer and a lope.

RESPECT THE GAME IT'S NOT KILL AT ALL COST.

I agree not a sport, not a game!

And I too would like to see SCI, GSCO, P&Y and B&C remove the names from the book.

They will never do it, as their own arrogance will keep it from happening.

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Tell one of them Texans it ain't sporting to use a blind & feeders but be sure to have your guard up so you can block the punch.

Here is a myth and I mean a BIG myth/misunderstanding/mis-use of terms that I am, going to debunk right here, right now.

Texans DO NOT defend what we consider hunting here in the state as a "Sport" or as "Sporting", end of story. It is the way things evolved in our state, and they evolved thaty way simply due to a lack of Public Land. Don't care who you are or where you hunt, if you are hunting on Private Land, the landowner will dictate the way you will hunt or you won't hunt there, again, end of story.

The reason so many texans, and there are a shit load of them go out of state or to Canada/Alaska/Africa etc. etc. etc. is so they can enjoy a more classic hunting experience.

We do however defend what we do here as a form of hunting, and it is a form of hunting, same as using dogs to hunt anything, same as an archer setting in a tri-pod watching a trail, same as setting up over a waterhole or natural food plot or calling in an elk/moose/ducks or a turkey gobbler, same as setting up and watching the migration corridors outside the Yellowstone for elk or in Quebec/Labrador for caribou, and the list goes on.

Each of those are a form of hunting to someone. Instead of attacking folks over what they consider hunting or what any of us as an individual should be considered actual hunting. It is too easy for folks to say what they do not think hunting is, how about trying to verbalize what they believe or what constitutes real hunting in their estimation of things.

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
vv.

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We do however defend what we do here as a form of hunting, and it is a form of hunting, same as using dogs to hunt anything, same as an archer setting in a tri-pod watching a trail, same as setting up over a waterhole or natural food plot or calling in an elk/moose/ducks or a turkey gobbler, same as setting up and watching the migration corridors outside the Yellowstone for elk or in Quebec/Labrador for caribou, and the list goes on.

Each of those are a form of hunting to someone. Instead of attacking folks over what they consider hunting or what any of us as an individual should be considered actual hunting. It is too easy for folks to say what they do not think hunting is, how about trying to verbalize what they believe or what constitutes real hunting in their estimation of things.

Going to give you a big AMEN to this brother!!!

I believe that many hunters have a deep rooted feeling of guilt, which they deal with by inventing "hunting ethics". That allows them to continue to believe that killing is wrong, except within a set of narrow parameters that basically describe exactly how they do it. Its a sure bet anyone they view as a competitor will be marked as unethical. Even if they hunt exactly the same way it becomes unethical if they are in "your" spot.

Degree of difficulty is often given as a method of gaugeing how worthy the pursuit is; but it usually is a way to inflate the hunter, or attempt to get some points for doing things they way they wanted to in the first place. If it was just about makeing things harder then hunting barefoot in areas of little or no game would be elite sports. Somehow the desire to make things harder ends short of that.

Hunting prime and exotic locations adds to the experience, unless you can't do it yourself at which point the practitioners are "pampered rich guys that need to be lead around by the hand".

Being a good shot is considered high ethics by our hero, as long as you are hunting somewhere else. If you happen to be in a totally different league than him then it becomes unethical as it in his view it gives an unfair advantage. (and he can't do it)

I grew up watching my Uncles and Grandfather get ready for deer season each fall. I would watch as they fired their rifles in preperation for opening day. I couldn't wait until I was 12 years old and could join them. Deer season was a big event in our family. To me there is no greater challenge in hunting than to stalk a mature buck in his zone with no scent blocking clothes and just the terrain for cover, The only way you win is if the buck is after a hot doe and is distracted. I am still able to do this but when I can't I'll hunt from a blind or
whatever,

Hawkeye

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Originally posted by OLBIKER:
I hunt for moral mushrooms.When I find them I pick them.I hunt for deer.When I find one I kill it any legal way possible. Fair chase is some bullshit term someone made up to make them self feel good about killing something.I hunt to kill and kill to eat and eat what I kill.We raise our own chickens ,goats ,pigs kill them and eat them.No difference ,except I know who processed the meat and how it was fed.No Walt Disney fantasies in our house.

I delighted in your comment about hunting morels, and luxuriated in my memories of living just N of you in the UP, where mushrooming was pure heaven ....for morels, and so many other varieties.

CHC
While most here agree that hunting is the common thread that puts meat on the table, including me, some "hunters" I have run into don't eat what they shoot. Several of the guides here in CO end up with more elk, deer and bear meat than they can use in a year because of the horn hunters. Hunting out of box or ground blinds in TX is purt near a necessity in some areas because of the mesquite thickets where we can use a chainsaw to go through and the deer just disappear. I grew up in a pretty much non hunting family. My dad "hunted" only occaisionally and probably shot less shells at the range than he did at whatever unfortunate animal he was chasing. If we had venison, it was because I made the shot. I did not, in reality, have a mentor because he didn't have any knowledge of "hunting". When I was 40, I could hold my own here with the Mt Goats, now that I am 58 and after several surgeries, I don't believe that the Mt goats would even give me a second look. A tree stand or ground blind near a water hole is a good place for me to take my bow or rifle out for the day, read a book, take a nap, get away from the stress(I meant JOY) of owning my own business. Armed Hiking? The object hasn't changed, putting food on the table, but the necessity of killing something has eased. I still enjoy the hunt as much as the next guy/gal but don't need the meat to survive. It isn't the record books that interest me, I was always happy to take a spike deer or doe. The mounts I have in my office are my African stuff and various North American animals I have taken that were personal goals of mine, A 6 x 6 bull elk, an old past his prime buck muley that is only a 4 x 3 (2 years earlier, he was a 6 x 5), a 400 lb bow killed black bear (at 11 yards) that took 5 of us to get out of the woods. My taxidermist tells me that this bear would go into the top third of P & Y if I would have it scored but that isn't important to me. A decent speed goat from CO. There were bigger around but this one suited me. And so on.
For me, it is the sheer experience of being, living, getting out and doing something that is dear to me. I hope I never get tired of looking forward to the next hunting season, the joy of feeding myself and my wife, the awe of being in the outdoors. Whether I kill some "poor defenseless creature" or not isn't the measure of sucess for me on a hunt, it's just being able to do so.

The quarry MUST be able to get away without man-made obstacles.

I won't hunt a whitetail in a 25,000 acre high-fence in TX and I won't shoot a giant mule deer against a high-fence protecting a freeway in Utah.

I know some will argue my thoughts, but I really don't care. I have spent way too much time hunting in wild places and have no desire to shoot animals which do not have the means to escape-- if they want to escape or not. To me hunting is not a competition. It is how I want it to be.

And it is NOT about the kill-- not for me anyway. It is about the chance to kill. Hunting Bull Elephant in Wyoming is not hunting, but hunting bull elk on a 15% success rate unit is.

I enjoy RavenR's posts because he shows what I also enjoy-- frost on the land, sunrises, tracks, other critters, boots, horses, the lay of the land. So much more to it than the kill.

This is a good thread that causes one to reflect. The wife and I hunt so we can enjoy the outdoors together, share the emotional and bonding experience of the kill and later the enjoyment of preparing the kill and reliving the memories. Definition for us: If we are in the outdoors with loaded firearms and the legal right to kill animals, we are hunting.

Hunting is like anything else. You get out of it what you are willing to put into it. Everyone has different opinions, standards and needs in order to enrich their life.

I am not going to condemn anyone's legal method of meeting their definition of hunting anymore than I would condemn someone's religion or political beliefs. I will just make a decision not to participate if I don't agree. At the end of the day you have to be able to live with yourself.

If'n it ain't already been said -

..free food..

With all the work I put into it year after year

It's a labor of love

Free food? It's the most expensive meat in the freezer!

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Free food? It's the most expensive meat in the freezer!

That is as accurate as it gets.

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Originally posted by Shack:
If'n it ain't already been said -

..free food..

What part of it is free?

The $400 rifle and scope combination you bought at Walmart? (much worse for 99% of the folks here).

The $50 tag and hunting license (if not much worse)

The $50-150 tank of gas to drive to the hunting area

The $50-650 processing fees for doing your deer, elk, moose, bison whatever

The $350-15000 worth of clothes, equipment, knives, binoculars and so on.

MOA is spot-on. Free Food??

Just for fun I kept a record for the expenses of my cow Elk hunt this January. All costs are included except for equipment and vehicle wear and tear / maintenance.

It added up to $2617.77 and I brought back 182 lbs of boneless meat. Net cost of meat: $14.38 per lb. (Does not include the cost of having some of that meat made into sausage.) And that's for a low-end, low budget, albeit fully guided, hunt.

But I shouldn't complain. I have friends who spend a lot more than that on their recreational activities (golf, boating, racing) and they don't bring home any meat at all.

Sweet, allow me to continue the hi-jack.

Perspective!

My last cow elk cost me $165 for 148# of boneless, processed meat (burger, roasts, steaks, some sausage) Permit- Free. Bullet $2. Gas $33. Processor $130.

My last bull elk was $45 permit, $90 fuel, $6 bullets (shoot 'em 'til they fall over), and $20 cut/wrap myself.

On the flip-side, my last whitetail cost me-- $490 permit. $524 fuel. $10 process. 80lbs or so of boneless meat.

--Can't use guns and optics in the equation. Those still hold a value. Unless a guy is like some of us want to be-- buy a gun for every hunt just to have a reason to buy a gun. I also eat when I am not hunting so I don't figure in food.

The hunt as an "ideal world" I like to think of as me against nature, with it NOT coming down to "purchasing" your wild game by paying so much for it that it ruins the whole thing.

Modern hunting leases, guide fees and certain club dues have destroyed my interest in the kinds of hunting that depend on how much cash you have.

I know of one "exclusive" "historic" Arkansas duck place that, last I heard, rented for $100K per season. And they actually got that. It used to be hunting by invitation, but when that much cash was touted around, the hunting based on friendships died. And those were the BEST kinds of hunting.

And even if I could write the check I woudn't. What kind of "hunt" could you call that??

Same with some high fenced "trophy" food plot deer I know of. Sure you can get a big deer, but in my world all you've done is "purchase" a large rack. I congratulate 'um for finding a way to make $$$, but count me out.

So what do I do? Hunt on land that I own or that doesn't cost anything to hunt because it's by invitation. Hunt with guns I was going to buy anyway as collector pieces, or with hand me downs that didn't cost anything. Skin and butcher my own or with the help of others, or if we use a butcher divide the cost up. That doesn't run much. And sometimes make it a camp hunt and stay out in the woods, so the driving costs are minimized. Or more likely, invite someone else to hunt with the deal being I provide a good place and they provide the transportation and gas. And I don't pay yearly license fees. I got a lifetime license many, many yrs ago. And don't even need that now becuz of age.

And I'm plenty satisfied with deer that are good table fare, but who cares if mountable (I don't mount whole heads anyway, so no big loss there).

So yeah, "free food" is a worthy concept. And something to strive for, along with just being "out there".

I know why I hunt. I like the preditor instinct that comes out when I get in the field. as far as how I hunt. I've enjoyed every type I've done. Tracking deer in snow is my favorite but I've enjoyed hunting with dogs, Spot and stock,Hell even sitting in a blind in Texas with a one armed crazyman. LOL. I would hunt chipmucks with a .458 win if that the only thing I could do. i could careless if its high fence, low fence or whatever. I hunt because It who i am and as long as I can I'm going to keep experiancing as much of it and as many different ways as I can. The only hunt thats been bad is the one I didn't go on. Hunting is very regional and MY way may not be yours. I collect experience. Got to go, a chipmuck is coming to the bird feeder. Summer stinks

There is a very good article in either this issue or the last issue of Petersen's HUNTING. The author hunts behind a high fence. Cutting the chase, he concludes hunting behind a fence is more like a shopping trip than a hunt; even the owner of place said that. While he couldn't see the fence, the outcome was really never in doubt.

A nice rule: "If the outcome really isn't in doubt, then it really isn't hunting."

I believe that hunting, fair chase, and ethics are a rather subjective topic. We all have our opinions and they often overlap but rarely mirror each other. Where I'm from there are huge tracts of public land and even larger pieces of true wilderness. High fences and fair chase are items left to read in magazines or see on tv. I wish I could hunt abroad-hunt like I was taught-and not buy time and antler on a ranch or similar parcel. The Divine has not led me to the out-of-state friends I wish to make and trade hunting area secrets...yet. Great subject. It is always a pleasure to hear how things happen in other places.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
There is a very good article in either this issue or the last issue of Petersen's HUNTING. The author hunts behind a high fence. Cutting the chase, he concludes hunting behind a fence is more like a shopping trip than a hunt; even the owner of place said that. While he couldn't see the fence, the outcome was really never in doubt.

A nice rule: "If the outcome really isn't in doubt, then it really isn't hunting."

I thought that article was horse shit, this guy went on a free hunt shot a nice deer and bitched about it.

What a loser, and more importantly what a good way to shit on the industry.

I was really dissapointed that Peterson's publishing printed that article.

Pronghorn antelope are the same way in Wyoming, but it is still hunting, and there is no fence.

Fuck him!