I normally tip 10% on successful hunts, Often more. However, I recently tipped 5% when after a week of elk hunting I chose to take into consideration two things. I had no shot at all after 5 days hunting for elk. The second reason was a guide left me on a mountain in snowstorm to go look for another clients elk he thought he wounded (he hadn't hit the elk). I had to hike out several miles in cold, snow and dark and make my own way back to camp. I caught a ride with a local hunter who dropped me off at our camp. I'm in my 60's so I was not enjoying this experience. The guide was very pissed at the tip and I rather felt maybe I was too harsh or critical and should have tipped the normal 10% regardless. A penny for your guys thoughts.

quote:

Originally posted by strapman:
I normally tip 10% on successful hunts, Often more. However, I recently tipped 5% when after a week of elk hunting I chose to take into consideration two things. I had no shot at all after 5 days hunting for elk. The second reason was a guide left me on a mountain in snowstorm to go look for another clients elk he thought he wounded (he hadn't hit the elk). I had to hike out several miles in cold, snow and dark and make my own way back to camp. I caught a ride with a local hunter who dropped me off at our camp. I'm in my 60's so I was not enjoying this experience. The guide was very pissed at the tip and I rather felt maybe I was too harsh or critical and should have tipped the normal 10% regardless. A penny for your guys thoughts.

Considering the fact your "guide" left you on the mountain several miles from camp in the snow and dark, the 5% was overly generous. He was damned lucky to get any sort of tip.

Right on TY!!

My thoughts exactly.

George

Replied to this but hasn't shown up so maybe way laid. Friend of mine in Namibia said a tip, at all, is for EXCEPTIONAL service. Getting you a book animal, etc. not for run of the mill, doing what's necessary only. He should be glad he got one at all.

shoot, hit the wrong key and deleted my answer. Friend of mine in Namibia, head of the Namibia guides association said "a tip is for EXCEPTIONAL service" getting you a book quality animal. NOT for just getting the job done. He should be happy he got one at all. With me, he most likely wouldn't have.

Strapman:

Considering your experience, you were very generous.

5% was above and beyond. Should have got zip AND you should have mentioned him here.

A year ago I was on an elk hunt. It was a road hunt. Saw zero elk but 30+ vehicles and 100 other hunters in six days. Guide got zero. I did see a lot of roads in northern Idaho, however.

You would not have left a waitress a tip for no food and if you had to clean your own table. You were more than generous. Too much so.

Cal

When trucking OTR in the '70's.
One of the other drivers would push the dirty dishes off on the floor if they hadn't come to clean things up within 5 minutes.

George

Was this a two on one deal and you demanded to drag the guide away from the other client? If so, that is a different matter.

Otherwise, I would have tipped $0 and demanded a refund. You, as a guide, never leave a client. What if you twisted an ankle, had a stroke, got confused and hiked off trail, encountered a cougar, etc? The guide is there for your safety as well as trying to get you a shot at a critter.

I do not often use a guide but have around 10 times out West over the past 30 years which covers about 75 big game hunts. I tip based on effort by the guide. I have always filled the tag on guided hunts but my expectation was I might not as some were tough hunts which is why I sought out a guide.

I hear horror stories of guides that show up drunk or violate laws. I have never heard of one that left a client miles from camp and had they hike out alone. I would report that to whatever group monitors guides in that state.

You got ripped off and were way too generous with the tip.

A guide is not a personal servant or babysitter but the guide's job is to provide access to the game you are seeking, see to it that you are safely taken in and out of the hunting area and assist with the followup and care of the game should you score a shot.

Lots of things can happen that might mean going home empty handed but any guide worth the job description should be able to put you into an area where the game is available within reasonable shooting distance. Why else would you hire one? The rest is up to you. I once went on a cow elk hunt in Utah and there was absolutely no sign of any elk on the property - not a track, droppings, anything. The "guide" obviously didn't do any pre-season scouting but took my money anyway. I was ripped off and told the "guide" what I thought and wrote negative reviews on several websites. No, I didn't tip.

Even worse, in your case, is the lack of concern for your safety. No one should be expected to make their way through unfamiliar country. A client might be an experienced outdoorsman or a total greenhorn, the guide doesn't know ahead of time and should not make assumptions. I have been lucky with this because I have physical limitation and all of the guides I've worked with have gone out of their way to help me be safe and successful. You might not get full attention if it's a 2 on 1 hunt but you should never be left completely on your own.

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas "Ty" Beaham:

quote:

Originally posted by strapman:
I normally tip 10% on successful hunts, Often more. However, I recently tipped 5% when after a week of elk hunting I chose to take into consideration two things. I had no shot at all after 5 days hunting for elk. The second reason was a guide left me on a mountain in snowstorm to go look for another clients elk he thought he wounded (he hadn't hit the elk). I had to hike out several miles in cold, snow and dark and make my own way back to camp. I caught a ride with a local hunter who dropped me off at our camp. I'm in my 60's so I was not enjoying this experience. The guide was very pissed at the tip and I rather felt maybe I was too harsh or critical and should have tipped the normal 10% regardless. A penny for your guys thoughts.

Considering the fact your "guide" left you on the mountain several miles from camp in the snow and dark, the 5% was overly generous. He was damned lucky to get any sort of tip.

Agreed. No shot and a wlak in the snow in a place I could get lost. Not what I paid for, he should be very thankful for 5%

I had a hunt similar to this one this year, the guide took off on me (he had a head start based on how we were hunting) and just made a run for the vehicle without waiting for me. I knew I could find my way back, but probably wasted some time because I didn't know the area as well as he did. I was a bit miffed, but nothing to get too bent out of shape over. I just didn't understand why he took off without me for the vehicle because it's not like he could leave without me (I hoped!). I'm a pretty fit 31-year old so I don't feel like I was holding him back or being a lazy client, either. The only difference was I killed my target animal before the end of the hunt, so I tipped very closely to the 10%, but not quite, and I usually tip much more than that. I will admit though, him leaving me behind was why I didn't go above and beyond in the tipping, as usual.

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:
When trucking OTR in the '70's.
One of the other drivers would push the dirty dishes off on the floor if they hadn't come to clean things up within 5 minutes.

George

Truckers are the 22 wheeler version of the Hell's Angels - short fuse and hard fists.

I have been left by myself out west on big game hunts because of my experience and agreement with the guide for legitimate reasons. I have never been left/forgot and had to do what you did to get to camp.
Bottom Line: I wouldn't have given him anything but a thorough and complete dressing down for his action!!
I also agree that we would like to know who this so-called guide is he sounds like a clown!

I often hunt on my own, though I've also done many guided hunts. I don't tip based on taking an animal or not, but rather on how the hunt went and the amount of effort put forth on my behalf, by my guide, the cook, etc. If this guide had busted his ass to help you then my view would be that he'd earned an appropriate tip. However, from your brief explanation, it sounds as if he gave you a substandard effort.

With regard to leaving you alone, was there any conversation about you finding your way back to camp on your own? Did you tell him you had concerns about him leaving you? Did he even ask? I've been in situations where my guide and I were separated and we each proceeded to a meeting point (camp, truck, horses) on our own. But, I've also had a few times where I indicated that we should stay together for safety reasons and I've never had a problem with the guide following my suggestion/direction. My point here is that we've almost always discussed this in advance.

Based on what you said in your original comments, I think 5% was the most I'd have tipped and I may have tipped nothing. If he didn't like it, I'd have explained why it was low and if he objected further, I'd have taken it back entirely.

This might deviate a little bit but I want to say something about tipping. I think a tip is earned and should not be expected, if one is given at all. If you book a hunt in or out of the country and look at the outfitters website they tend to work in a section on tipping which is to their benefit. I have seen some outrageous suggestions. When you book, the cost of a PH or guide is already in what you pay and you have funded the whole expense for you. So if the outfitter
can program the clients to tip or imply that it is almost mandatory it takes the pressure and takes some pressure off of them to pay upfront. You'll make it up in tips. How about if the hunt is 10 days and you tag out in 5 that guide gets paid for 10. So he worked for 5 but got paid for 10. My point is this, with the cost of hunts today and the overall cost on a fundamental level have paid in full for the hunt whether you tipped or not. We are not talking 20% for a nice $100.00 dinner.

Expressing displeasure about the tip says all one needs to know about the guide.

As a guide, I do the exact same job, every time for every client and if they choose to tip or not, that is their business and has no bearing on how I do my job.

Tipping needs to remain the clients choice.

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:


With regard to leaving you alone, was there any conversation about you finding your way back to camp on your own? Did you tell him you had concerns about him leaving you? Did he even ask?

.

I'd like to know that as well. I may have asked the outfitter for a full refund or to expect litigation. Substandard effort is one thing, leaving someone whom you are paying to guide you in a perilous situation is criminal IMO.

Everyone expects a tip. Not everyone deserves a tip.

Sad case of affairs with Tipping that we Americans have been blamed for in the global hunting world. Not sure if we are ultimately to blame or it is something else.

It would be interesting to know what conversation took place before the guide left (abandoned) you.
Also, was the hunt one on one with the guide?

quote:

Sad case of affairs with Tipping that we Americans have been blamed for in the global hunting world. Not sure if we are ultimately to blame or it is something else.

From what I have seen/read/experienced, Americans are responsible for a large portion of the problem.

America as a whole is a tipping society. Many of us learned that if we were free with our money, we could get better service when out on the town.

That attitude carried over into other aspects of life, such as hunting and fishing trips with guides/outfitters.

When I was doing my Guided Javelina hunt service in the Trans-Pecos of west Texas, in my information IU stated that the listed price did not include gratuities.

Whether I should have put that in the information about the hunt or not is debatable.

I have found out over the years that I have been guiding hunters, any "Tips" I get are appreciated, but my biggest tip is doing my best to get my clients into a position where they can make a clean kill and leave camp satisfied with the job I did for them.

A Utah elk outfitter states in his literature a "tip of 15 to 30% is expected" at the end of the hunt.

My Zim PHs always manage to slip in the topic of tipping early in the hunt. Spoken or not, tipping is expected.

Cheers, gentlemen.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
A Utah elk outfitter states in his literature a "tip of 15 to 30% is expected" at the end of the hunt.

My Zim PHs always manage to slip in the topic of tipping early in the hunt. Spoken or not, tipping is expected.

Cheers, gentlemen.
Cal

Whoever that Utah outfitter is, I'd never hunt with him if he EXPECTS a 15-30% tip. That's ridiculous. Hunters willing to pay that deserve to be shafted. Nothing bothers me more about this is the expectation of a huge tip, which also tells me it's probably taken for granted when given and unappreciated when a normal tip of around 10% is given.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Expressing displeasure about the tip says all one needs to know about the guide.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
A Utah elk outfitter states in his literature a "tip of 15 to 30% is expected" at the end of the hunt.

My Zim PHs always manage to slip in the topic of tipping early in the hunt. Spoken or not, tipping is expected.

Cheers, gentlemen.
Cal

Whoever that Utah outfitter is, I'd never hunt with him if he EXPECTS a 15-30% tip. That's ridiculous. Hunters willing to pay that deserve to be shafted. Nothing bothers me more about this is the expectation of a huge tip, which also tells me it's probably taken for granted when given and unappreciated when a normal tip of around 10% is given.

I would quite happily tip that outfitter his 15-30% but it would be on the end of my boot as far up his ass I could drive it.

And I agree with you DLS, "Hunters willing to pay that deserve to be shafted".

Guided hunts that include land owner tags in Utah are among the most expensive deer, elk and antelope hunts in North America. A tip of 15-30% on top of that is grand theft.

I have seen elk hunts on private land in Utah that included tags for $10,000-14,000. That is in the top 10% of all rocky mountain elk hunts.

30% would be $3000-4200 in tips. I don't make that in 10 days, and I am not going to pay a guide that in tips.

Guide, cook, and wrangler would probably split $400-600, something like 50%, 25%, 25%. I'd talk to the outfitter before the hunt and tell him that is what I can afford. If not I'd find another guy.

The implication is that a guide will only work hard if he expects a huge tip. That mention of 15-30% is insulting at best. That said, this is where guided hunts have gone and if they can get it they're going to ask for it.

Just like Roger Goodell asking for $49.5 million PLUS lifetime private jet use and healthcare for his family (the latter can be construed as an insult to every citizen of the USA IMO).

After what you said happened, you must be a very generous and forgiving man.

I spend dollars, not percentages. Someone somewhere along the line stealthily got these percentages going and have been perpetuated. I remember a few years ago a highly respected outfitter I hunted with in WY mentioned in his brochure 3-5%. I wonder if when giving tips to these guys if you required a SS# and sent them a 1099, if it might give them pause? I just came of a LE Elk hunt in Utah and the guide, which was excellent. The beginning of the hunt showed me a Vortex spotting scope about 1400.00 that the previous client gave him as a tip. It was one of those 16,000.00 hunts. Was he working me? I don't know for sure but he sure as hell didn't get anything close to that from me!
So a $5,000.00 hunt is really $5,500.00 plus or a $6,000.00 hunt is $6,600.00 plus and so on not counting all the other allied costs?

I have given this more thought and from my perspective, no hunter wants to get into a confrontation with a guide. I did not enjoy hearing a guide give me a lot of crap over what he thought was a substandard tip. In the future, it is all or nothing. They either qualify for full tip (10%) or they get nothing at all. I will leave camp with them wondering if and when they are getting a tip. I alsoI am not going to run a performance evaluation for a guide or guides assistant. These people are not my friends. I am not their friend. They will be with me just the duration of the hunt which is 5-10 days and then we each go our own separate way. I'm done with knuckleheads and their lack of professionalism. I have never had a guide in Africa leave me to my devices and until it happened to me for about the third time, I hadn't been too upset. However, the snowstorm drove home my being upset with this guy.

Sadly, there are scumbags out there that stiff great wait staffs all the time so I'm certain it happens afield. I wish there were a better way because I'm uncomfortable with the whole exchange. I have no problem giving the money just hate the "expectation of a great tip when I do what I'm being paid to do already" thing. Unfortunately, the other side of that is if the guide is already paid and there's no "carrot on a stick" he may not care whether you see any game whatsoever. Still some good folk out there and forums like this help us find them.

Hence the need to NAME bad outfitters.

quote:

Hence the need to NAME bad outfitters.

Yep; I don't know why people come on websites with bad stories about an outfitter, but won't name them. Either put the name out to help others avoid problems like they ran into or don't post at all IMHO!

A tip is a "gift", not a requirement..Its based on a service performed...I make that clear to all my hunting companies..

This tipping thing in recent years has got way out of hand. It used to bo 5-10 percent now in restaurants I'm seeing 25 percent as the recommended tip. If you give me good service I tip well if not go pound sand

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:
Sadly, there are scumbags out there that stiff great wait staffs all the time so I'm certain it happens afield. I wish there were a better way because I'm uncomfortable with the whole exchange. I have no problem giving the money just hate the "expectation of a great tip when I do what I'm being paid to do already" thing. Unfortunately, the other side of that is if the guide is already paid and there's no "carrot on a stick" he may not care whether you see any game whatsoever. Still some good folk out there and forums like this help us find them.

Hence the need to NAME bad outfitters.

A tip is a gift!

Horseshit.

We stiff wait staff regularly, we have 3 young children and rarely get treated respectfully. Our kids do their best to not make a mess and we try to keep the table clean. I have even asked for a mop to help clean up spills.

Every waiter thinks that I owe them something because they are stuck in a job they don't like.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:
Sadly, there are scumbags out there that stiff great wait staffs all the time so I'm certain it happens afield. I wish there were a better way because I'm uncomfortable with the whole exchange. I have no problem giving the money just hate the "expectation of a great tip when I do what I'm being paid to do already" thing. Unfortunately, the other side of that is if the guide is already paid and there's no "carrot on a stick" he may not care whether you see any game whatsoever. Still some good folk out there and forums like this help us find them.

Hence the need to NAME bad outfitters.

A tip is a gift!

Horseshit.

We stiff wait staff regularly, we have 3 young children and rarely get treated respectfully. Our kids do their best to not make a mess and we try to keep the table clean. I have even asked for a mop to help clean up spills.

Every waiter thinks that I owe them something because they are stuck in a job they don't like.

Why would you tip wait staff that treats you poorly? I'm missing your point.

If you're not being treated with respect, you need to find another resturant.
My wife and I took our granddaughter to eat in a rather nice resturant. Before we got there granddaughter said she wanted a Happy Meal. being doting grands, we stopped and got her a happy meal. And took it with us into the nice place. The wait staff could not have been nicer. They brought her a plate and offered to provide her condiments. They admired the little toy that came with the meal. My wife and I enjoyed a nice meal while our granddaughter got to eat the crap she's being raised on.

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:
Sadly, there are scumbags out there that stiff great wait staffs all the time so I'm certain it happens afield. I wish there were a better way because I'm uncomfortable with the whole exchange. I have no problem giving the money just hate the "expectation of a great tip when I do what I'm being paid to do already" thing. Unfortunately, the other side of that is if the guide is already paid and there's no "carrot on a stick" he may not care whether you see any game whatsoever. Still some good folk out there and forums like this help us find them.

Hence the need to NAME bad outfitters.

A tip is a gift!

Horseshit.

We stiff wait staff regularly, we have 3 young children and rarely get treated respectfully. Our kids do their best to not make a mess and we try to keep the table clean. I have even asked for a mop to help clean up spills.

Every waiter thinks that I owe them something because they are stuck in a job they don't like.

Why would you tip wait staff that treats you poorly? I'm missing your point.

We didn't tip.

We generally get the feelings that things are going south when we walk in and find someplace else to eat.

When a hunt I am doing is over and the client is getting ready to depart, they hand me whatever tip they feel like giving, I do not even look at it.

I put in my pocket, shake hands with them and Thank them for choosing to hunt with me.

I never know how much they have given me until after they have left camp.

I do the exact same level of work for every client and do not think about whether or not there will be a tip at the end of the hunt.

I guide because I love to hunt, but no longer get a rush out of killing game myself, with the exception of ducks.