The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Shooting Stix, Bi-pod, or DaypackGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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On long range shooting what is your tool of choice? What do you use on shots say over 200? I am old school and don't like to carry the extra piece of equipment (stix) so for me it's a daypack. ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | ||
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I believe in using any kind of rest when it is available. Of course, utilizing a rest means that you are shooting at a non-moving animal. In such cases I can almost always find a tree limb/trunk, fence post, dirt mound, or some similar natural feature to serve as a rest. Any of these are superior, in my opinion, to the "shooting sticks" made fashionable by TV hunting shows. What a piece of baggage to carry around while you hunt! However impractical I find "shooting sticks" I find those juvenile bipods appended to the front of an otherwise servicable rifle a pure abomination. What pieces of junk! Not only are the cumbersome to wag around, they are guaranteed to alter the zero of any rifle to which they are attached. What a joke. I find that they are utilized almost exclusively by hunters in their "formative" years, which means most of them will probably get over it if they continue hunting. I think they mostly have a paramilitary appeal to youngsters. Bottom line: Take, or make, a rest whenever you can. Almost anything will improve your shooting as compared to shooting offhand. And almost any natural object is superior to the store-bought Rube Goldberg contraptions designed to separate the gullible from their money. | |||
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As an experienced shooter I feel comfortable improvising a rest and can do so quickly in most situations, but for my kids nothing beats a tripod/shooting sticks. You can make a nice set with fiberglass poles and an inner tube like you can get at any place that sells tack and hardware for about $30.00 Any rest is better than no rest every time. | |||
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Truthfully, most of my long range shooting is at coyotes around our ranches, so typically the hood of my truck is my rest. As far as hunting conditions go, I have a walking stick thing from Cabelas that adjusts to most heights to use as a shooting stick. My favortie position is sitting using it. Of course if there happens to be a tree limb or a rock to lay my pack on, those natural rests are pretty hard to beat IMHO. | |||
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I agree and disagree with Stonecreek. I like to use naturally available 'rests' when I can, like the side of a tree etc., and for some hunting applications that's all I plan on using. I do however use Harris bi-pods and the lightweight Stoney point 'cross sticks' often, and they are damn good IME. I definitely don't have a change of impact issue with either, and in fact practice with and without the Harris bi-pods often. The Harris bi-pod I have is high enough that I can shoot sitting with it, and I can do so damn accurately. If I can get prone, I will, and if my bi-pods are on my rifle (retracted) they sit on my pack nicely, and give the same point of impact off of my pack as my rifle does without them being on the gun. I consider my bi-pods anything but an abomination--no disrespect Stonecreek! I guess it's like lot's of things with riflemen, and ice-cream, "That's why they make chocolate AND vanilla"  | |||
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I like shooting (prone) from bipods, but I HATE carrying them around. So most of my prone shooting is from a pack. - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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Bi-pod. They are there! Hanging uglily on the end of your rifle. You don't have to carry them. You don't have to take them off before you can use them. There's not a chance of leaving them in the truck or back at camp. Perhaps they are ugly, perhaps they aren't kewl, but they are very handily there. Try adjusting a day pack to shoot over knee high or higher sage or grass. And the idea of packing around a pair of shooting sticks, unless you have a bearer to do it, is too silly to consider. They just don't seem to always put those tree limbs, dirt mounds, fence post, etc where you need 'em. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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After three abdominal surgeries, I don't shoot prone, ever. I usually shoot from a sitting or kneeling position. For me, I find my knees better than a bipod that I have to lug around, but for my daughter, she loves the B-Square one that I put on her rifle. She uses it sitting and has made some very good shots from it. I guess it just depends on what you get used to. I used to shoot from the hood of my truck, but now I have no paint there. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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i'll take a tree or rock any day rather than cart around bipods etc. besides that there are few things that move around less than a rock | |||
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Amen. Carrying anything besides the rifle, and a napsack, is out of bounds for me. | |||
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What he said PLUS sometimes, sitting with your back against a tree for hours waiting for that trophy buck you caught on the game cam for example, bi-pods are just the ticket. I don't have a change of impact issue either, maybe free float the barrel?? Unless you can find a large rock to roll in front of you, etc. Using a daypack is a good idea IF you can find something to rest it on. Also not always possible.
I have a pair of shock-corded shooting sticks that I carry in my daypack/backpack ALWAYS. They are only about 12" long when folded and weigh almost nothing. Only had to use them once in over ten years of hunting, but when you need them, you need them. You can't always find a suitable stump, rock, etc. JUST A TYPICAL WHITE GUY BITTERLY CLINGING TO GUNS AND RELIGION Definition of HOPLOPHOBIA "I'm the guy that originally wrote the 'assault weapons' ban." --- Former Vice President Joe Biden | |||
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I'm pretty confident on shots out to 300-350 on sticks, but prefer prone on a pack for shots to my limit of 400-450 depending on conditions. With any rest, you should know before you squeeze if you should shoot or not. Bipods are just too bulky for anything but practice IMO. I really don't mind carrying a set of SP sticks. I usually have them in my pack and take them out when things get serious. Reloader | |||
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Personally like a bi-pod. I hunt areas where you are looking from a hilltop to openings in scrub oaks on the next hill or draw. sometimes I am planning on a shot in an opening that may be over 300 yards out and a good bipod is the only way I am confident I can make a clean kill past 300 yards. | |||
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Whatever method you choose to use, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!! If any of these methods changes your point of impact, you need to free float your barrel! | |||
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For all my mountain hunting I use whatever rest is available, rock, tree, limb, prone, backpack, or sling and sitting. On Antelope hunts I have started using a bipod, however I sometimes still shoot over my pack never using the bipod, sometimes sitting with the bipod. For mountain hunts I see no need to add the weight of the "pod" to my rifle and the opportunity for "made" rests abound in broken rough country. The most important thing I keep stressing to my son is become an expert at using whatever rest is available in every situation, practice so much that it becomes "automatic". | |||
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Stonecreek: I love bipods. I am pretty damn sure I have shot a ton more stuff than you have. But go ahead and rant. In truth, I prefer a shooting sling. I am comfortable with a sling out to 500 yards, and would shoot sitting with sling at 600 if I didn't have a bipod. When I hunt, I carry the bipod in my backpack. If I have time, I put it on. Oh, and by the way, I have not found it to change my zero. I even zero with them. I have a special technique that allows me to shoot as well as a benchrest with it. | |||
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Hey Ted, I'm with AZ on using a Sling. I use what we called the Hasty Sling set-up in the CORPS. It allows you to use almost any sling made to steady every possible shooting position. I've shot from kneeling, sitting, prone, tree stands, tree sides and such stuff for so long that it just becomes second nature. But, it has been a long time since I've attempted a 600yd shot - not enough practice at that distance. I do look at all the neat shooting stick Thingys and bi-pod Thingys, but have yet to panic into buying any of them. Did try lashing a couple of pieces of PVC together to make a set of so called Shooting Sticks, basically a walking stick/Snake Smasher that could be used to shoot from. But they "flexed" a bit and were worthless for actually shooting. Another problem with the PVC Sticks was that I had to carry them. That is what has kept me from actually buying anything else similar to them. Not because of the weight, but because it is something else to have to keep up with. Normally when I'm afield I have a Revolver and a Rifle, plus some kind of Tool or Tools(chain saw, limb trimmer, fence equipment, etc., so I just don't need, nor want an additional Thingy. Doesn't mean that I think Shooting Sticks/Bi-pods are bad Thingys. I can see why people who go out with the sole purpose of Hunting, would view them as an asset. But for me, I'll just stick with a good old Synthetic Sling. Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills. | |||
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I have also used my tripod for a rest when shooting at something from where I had been glassing. I have a quick-adapt rifle rest attachment that fits on the head in place of my 15X binocs. Here's another option that worked well for me in Africa when no other rest was availble. I also have the standing version, which is a couple inches longer when in the pouch. Both my .264 and and .300 have adapters on them These two pages are from my "How To Hunt Coues Deer" book.   Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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Here is a link to a story I wrote for Rifle Shooter. This is the absolute best field position. Use it and you can shoot sub MOA from a sitting position. It is bench rest steady. http://www.rifleshootermag.com...rs_benchrest_200809/ | |||
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daypack or shooting stix. Bipods are a pain when it comes to different shooting positions and uneven terrain. "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
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Tony, I notice you use the term "sling" for what is really a carrying strap. Van Zwoll and I would disagree big time with you on the use of the "old military sling." You can't shoot nearly as well with a strap as you can a sling. And I never carry my rifle slung anyway. | |||
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No, it's still a sling regardless. Why? Because I sling the rifle over my shoulder to carry it. The strap and rifle together comprise the loop. If you wish to play with semantics, call it a carrying sling vs. a shooting sling. sling 1 (slng) n. 1. a. A weapon consisting of a looped strap in which a stone is whirled and then let fly. b. A slingshot. 2. A looped rope, strap, or chain for supporting, cradling, or hoisting something, especially: a. A strap of a shoe that fits over the heel. b. A strap used to carry a rifle over the shoulder. c. Nautical A rope or chain that attaches to the mast and supports a yard. d. A band suspended from the neck to support an injured arm or hand. 3. The act of hurling a missile. tr.v. slung (slng), sling·ing, slings 1. To hurl with or as if with a sling. 2. To place or carry in a sling. 3. To move by means of a sling; raise or lower in a sling: sling cargo into a hold. 4. To hang loosely or freely; let swing. That said, I have even used the carrying sling as a shooting sling at times. I just use it differently than you do by sticking my left arm through the loop formed with the rifle, taking one wrap and then grasping the fore end of the rifle. It's quick and also pretty steady. When I shot metallic silhouettes competitively from a standing position, this is how I did it. This might also be what Hot Core refers to as the "hasty sling." For the most part, though, I'd rather just use an effective rest sans sling. Also, as it states on the book page above, I used the military type for about 15 years and sometimes used the loop method if I had the time to get all strapped in. As for carrying a rifle with a sling, to each his own, I guess. I wouldn't be without one. It's a hands-free solution when walking, briefly stopping to glass and then moving on. It eliminates the need to put the gun down or trying to balance it and glass at the same time. Likewise, it makes for easier treking in rough terrain when one might need both hands to grab on to something. Lastly and most importantly, it is the SAFEST carry method when walking with others. I know for sure that another person will never be above me. P.S. I'll take it up with Wayne the next time I see him.  I've known him since he first started writing.Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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HC must be older than I thought. You make a hasty sling by taking the bottom clip of your sling or carry strap or whatever loose and giving it a half turn to the left and reclipping it so the sling takes a half twist from the bottom to the top clip. When you are ready to use it, you slide your arm between the sling and the rifle at the trigger guard and twine your arm around the sling as you grab the forearm. The sling lays flat against your arm and gives you a steadying support as you bring your left hand back toward you and your left elbow down into a vee. With practice, it can be done in a split second, and the additional support will surprise you. I wisht I could post pictures. Also, this doesn't interfer with carrying the rifle slung over your shoulder. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Exactly. I manage to do it satisfactorily without altering the way the sling is clipped on the rifle. Here's a Video that shows it. Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer" | |||
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Tony, you are the man! Thanks for the share, that's how I do it, discovered quite by accident, I didn't have a hunting mentor of any type except for bowhunting--so I figured it out the hard--or uh...uninformed way. We're lucky to have you here on AR, good intel, as often with you! | |||
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I spend a lot of time glassing when hunting in New Mexico, and since I started hunting with the Stoneycreek Polecat, I don't leave without it. I usually have one leg fully extended to use as a monopod to support my binoculars, and it doubles as a light walking stick. I can set it up for sitting, kneeling or standing shots but it is too long for prone shooting, which I don't ever do while hunting anyway. John Farner If you haven't, please join the NRA! | |||
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about 3.5 ft shooting sticks made of bamboo double as walking stick are perfect Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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In my part of the country, I use a bi-pod for deer, antelope, coyote, and prairie dog shooting. It works well for me and is always available when I need it. All my rifles are sighted in using a bi-pod. | |||
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I don't believe that they're all mutually exclusive. I've only got a bipod on one rifle, a .257 Weatherby Accumark, and I like it very much. It's the model that extends out to 25", and in high grass, it let's me shoot more accurately than I can from the classic, unassisted shooting positions. I leave it on when firing of bags at the range, and can see no loss of accuracy and no change in impact at 200 yards, which is the longest range available to me. Having said that, there are times and terrain when the bipod isn't appropriate. Sneaking up the backside of a rise, shielded by a thin screen of grass from animals in the hollow below you, it may not be advisable to fold down the bipod, sneak it over the crest of the rise and put it into position for a shot. At that point, a daypack or maybe just shooting from a classic low-profile prone position will better keep you concealed and let you make your shot. A bipod's not a panacea, just a tool to be used in the right time and place. One thing I am convinced of is that a bipod beats sticks. It's already attached to the rifle, so is one less thing that needs to be carried, and its firm attachment allows the (right-handed) shooter to put his left had somewhere other than the junction of sticks and rifle, which may permit the adoption of a more stable position. | |||
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Hey toomanytools, Spot on! I love the Stoneypoint bipods. Great for hunting. The seated model is a must for calling coyotes. The bench model is great for prone shots in the field. They are light. The prone model fits in your side cargo pants pocket nicely. The seated model telescopes and fits on top of my fanny pack to be secured by some straps. The Harris model 9-13" with notched legs and swivel feature with pod lock is a must for the Precision Rifle competitions I go to. Believe me, nobody shoots without one, only utilizing their packs! We all carry "sticks" too! There are commonly shots that must be taken over brush or trees. The sticks are necessary! I use the Stoneypoint sitting bipod model for this too. I leave my Harris on the forend and have modified the Stoneypoint Rapid Pivot to accept a "v" yolk to rest the forend in. It pulls off and on the with the same hardware (male) that normally goes on your forend. | |||
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Daypack for me. | |||
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I went to their website. Kramer Designs Snipe Pod Pretty cool idea and it looks to be very lightweight and stable. Never saw these before now. Thanks, ---Mike | |||
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Flippy, looks pretty cool, a little pricey, but cool.... | |||
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 DAMN!!!!I must be older than I thought!!!I was taught to use the 1' military sling in the prone,sitting,standing braced,standing offhand,and kneeling.I don't know stix,,or backpack.My Remington 30S in '06 has always been shot this way out to the limits of the cart.s limit both on targets and any game animal I have turned it on. a good horse,a churchill sized Maduro,a true rifle,and 50 year old brandy.................. | |||
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I have used all the above. I had a harris bipod on my old 300wsm and it did ok, used it.....1 time on game IIRC. Didn't change my point of impact, its no different then resting a rifle on any other object. If your POI is changing with a bipod, its going to change on a pack, a rock, hood of a truck so on and so forth. I have also used these nifty sticks which work out perfect for my favorite shooting position, sitting. Plus they are juuuust long enough that they make a good walking stick/cane. It can come in handy on the steep snowy slopes I hunt normally. Also have used just my knee in a sitting position. For me, its the most comfortable and has proven most accurate. I can adjust to whatever angle/height I want and be solid. That was my beef with the harris. Great for shooting relatively flat terrain, but angles and sage/rocks/dirt mounds can make getting into position hard. Never learned how to sling shoot, so I have no opinion on that. Frankly and honestly, I'm crap from off hand lol I can admit that and have only had to make a finishing snap shot off hand. It was so close in the thick stuff I had PLENTY of error room lol plus the animal was already imobile, just not dead so I didn't have to worry about it moving much If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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It all depends on the circumstances on the shot I have used most any and all rests available I try to be as flexible as I can for the game being hunted and take what I think I need | |||
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Me too. The surface under the stock is consistent that way, and you can shoot from prone, free-recoil. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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These are the ones I have now: Underwood Sticks/Crooked Horn Pouch Underwood makes the sticks, Crooked Horn makes the pouch. As it says, it weighs 5 oz. in the pouch. I did not know there was a third leg option until tonight when I searched them out. They are well built, and very sturdy. Gun Accessories.com/Underwood shooting sticks This is a different link. It has the third leg option. JUST A TYPICAL WHITE GUY BITTERLY CLINGING TO GUNS AND RELIGION Definition of HOPLOPHOBIA "I'm the guy that originally wrote the 'assault weapons' ban." --- Former Vice President Joe Biden | |||
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+1 white eagle, but I couldn't resist the change. I've always tried to use my sling (Like Tony explained) in conjunction with any rest -- tripod, bipod, limb, rock, pack, etc. You can't be too steady when you make your shot. NRA Endowment Life Member | |||
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I use shooting stix when in open country . . . usually they're in my pack, and I get them out when I sit . . . when I am still-hunting and glassing canyon country, I usually have them out and use them as a walking aide. Of course, a nice tree trunk is a better rest, but sometime all you've got a is a bushy cedar! | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Shooting Stix, Bi-pod, or Daypack
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