Guy's lets see if one or more of you fine upstanding gentelman can help me out here.

This is the small problem I have. I loaded some accubond 150 gr spitzer bullets for

a close friend of mine this year . He shoots a 300 Win Mag . These bullets were loaded

I would say middle of the road for what they can be loaded for. Lets see they were

loaded with 73.5 grs of IMR 4831 using Winchester Brass and WLR primers .Ths load

shot very well from his gun. He did not like th recoil of the 180 gr or the 165 gr

bullets , that is why he wanted the 150 gr bullets. My question to my acorn headed

freind was why did he get a 300 Win Mag , wait a minute that is another story.

Anyway this is what went on. He shot 2 deer this season both does in the 130 pound

range . He got one and thinks he got the second one but could not fine any sign of a

hit. The one he did get left no sign of a hit and no blood . It also had a very small

exit hole. This is my best guess , the deer here run most of the time in 175 pound

range for bucks and on a average of about 110-130 for does. I believe this is just

to much of a bullet for these deer . To me they are for bigger animals such as Elk

or such and you just don't get what this bullet can give you on the deer he is shoting.

Or maybe it is the way he is asking me to load them. Anyway this was his pick on

bullets and load. So what do all of you think ?

What I think is: I won't allow anyone who hunts with me to use an Accubond or a ballistic tip. They are accurate BUT pass thru on flesh and explode on bone. (And yes, I have used them on big deer, elk and antelope--all kills, all messy)

I CAN'T EVEN BEGIN TO EXPRESS HOW MUCH I DISLIKE THESE BULLETS. GRRR!

For deer sized game, I think the current version of Nosler Ballistic Tips, in weights appropriate for case size and velocity, are the best deer bullet available.

Earlier BT's were, but I that has been corrected.

Load some .30 cal., 150 gr. BT's for your buddy, at about 2900 fps. The deer won't know the difference between 2900 and 3200 fps.

And they WON'T blow up on a shoulder at that velocity.

I for one have had great luck with factory loaded 140's out of my .270, I'll keep shootin them.

Load a Hornady interloct bullet at minimum charge and call it a day.

The Accubonds are terrific bullets but a little stout for game under 150 pounds unless you're shooting through some bone.The Ballistic Tips are among my favorite medium game bullets and have never let me down over the years, but I do use them as the manufacturer recommends.

Another top choice would be the Nosler 150 grain Solid Base, available only from Nosler and now on sale for either 6.95 or 7.95 per box.

You just do not need a bonded core bullet to kill deer. The premium bullet hype many of the bullet manufactuers have been selling in the magazines is just BS. Remington Core-Lokts have probably cleanly killed more deer through the years than all others combined. Heavier game, I say fine. Go with the Accubonds, TSX, etc, but for whitetail deer they are not a good choice.

30378
Dont lump TSXs in as "not a good choice" they kill whitetails like they have been struck by lightning.

7 Mag
Your buddy is afraid of his rifle and probably missed doe #2 because he was thinking of the on coming recoil. A gernade on the end would not have made a difference. Tell him to get a 308 and shoot the same bullet with a middle of the road charge, you will be doing him a favor.

Perry

Accubonds are junk.

My post from another site. I also have a friends thats killed a few elk with 140s out of his 7mag at rather long range. These bullets IMO perform nearly identical to Partions but shoot better for me in my rifles.

I dont' think I'll ever shoot another Partition again, the Accubonds seem to perform nearly identical to them, and now that they make them in 6.5 and 35 cal... I'm set in every caliber I own.

2004- large bodied mule deer buck, shot with 280 Rem, 140gr Accubond at about 2950fps, range 80 yards through ribs, found under skin on off side, minimal meat dammage. Buck went 5 yards and fell over dead.



2004- yearling cow elk, shot with 280 Rem, 160gr Accubond at about 2800fps, range 340 yards, pulverized spine, not recovered, minimal meat damage. Dead on the spot.



2005- Blue Wildebeest bull, shot with 280 Rem, 160gr Accubond, Range 125yards, quartering away, entered last rib, broke off side shoulder, recovered under hide. Bull ran aproximatly 50 yards. Minimal damage.



2005- Imapala, shot with 280 Rem, 160Accubond, Range 90 yards, quartering toward, enered at point of shoulder exited flank, ram ran toward me and died at approximately 25 yards.



2005- Warthog, shot with 280 Rem, 160Accubond, Range 90 yards, quartering toward, enered at point of shoulder exited flank, ran 10 yards and expired.



2005- Bushbuck, shot with 280 Rem, 160 Accubond, Range, 75 yards, laying down quartering away, high rib shot, DOA, not reovered.



2005- Bull elk, shot with 7mmRM, 160 Accubond, 3050FPS, range 90 yards, Shot 3 times, First shot through ribs, second shot, quartering away, broke off side shoulder, bull turned and ran right at me, shot again in the chest. Dropped him. Final bullet shot was recovered in a sirloin steak.



2006- cow elk, shot with 338-06AI, 200gr Accubond, 2800fps, range 150 yards, quartering away, entered last rib, broke spine and found lodged under hide on point of shoulder, no meat damage, bang flop.



2006- whitetail deer, shot with 7mm RM, 160 Accubond, range 330 yards, shot through the front shoulder/neck area, broke spine quarter size exit hole. DOA.



2006- deer, shot with 338-06AI, 200gr Accubond, range 75 yards, shot high in the ribs, not recovered, minimal meat damage.

On a 130 pound deer the 300 winmag might be a bit much, especially if shot at fairly close range. The Accubond bullet is a top notch preformer.

quote:

Originally posted by 7 MAG:
. He got one and thinks he got the second one but could not fine any sign of a

hit. ?

Yep, thats the bullets fault alright...

Isnt it amazing the way we allow the superkiller ultravelocity whizbang bullets and such to complicate our lives..

Does anyone else remember when 2500 fs and a lead core bullet all but garanteed a flop from a deer, or am I getting old?

My answer to your friend is;

You don't really need a Ab for deer but they are awesome performers in the 30-06 and 300WM.

I bet I've loaded around 400 of the .308 150 grain Nosler ABs for hunters in the last couple of years.

They have performed very good on piles of whitetails, several big mulies, a pile of hogs, coyotes, bobcats, etc...

Typical little hole in and good sized exit. It didn't matter if bone was hit or not, they had text book performance on every animal shot with them except one. On that one the hunter flubbed the shot and went right through the middle of the guts. We followed blood for about 50 yards where it stopped and after hours of searching we never found the animal. I would have expected those results w/ nearly all bullets based on the shot placement.

Most of those loads were in the 3200fps range for the WM. The fewthat were used in 06 were around 2900.

I think shot placement was most likely the culprit.

If you think they were alittle too tough but, don't want as much expansion as the NBT, try the SBs.

Good Luck

Reloader

quote:

they had text book performance on every animal shot with them except one. On that one the hunter flubbed the shot and went right through the middle of the guts. We followed blood for about 50 yards where it stopped and after hours of searching we never found the animal.

If you didn't recover the deer, how do you know the shot went right through the middle of the guts? My experience is that gut shots, though certainly not what you strive for, are usually quickly fatal (anybody old enough to remember the killing of Lee Harvey Oswald?). After all, it is difficult to shoot an animal in the guts and not hit one or more of the aorta, liver, kidney, spleen, or large blood vessels associated with the digestive tract. Hitting any of these with anything other than an FMJ is fatal within a few minutes or less. Animals hit and lost are typically more often a result of muscle (flesh) wounds.

That issue aside, I agree that while a bonded or "premium" bullet is unnecessary and sometimes may not be as efficient on deer as plain old cup and core bullets, the Accubond is unlikely the factor at fault here.

quote:

If you didn't recover the deer, how do you know the shot went right through the middle of the guts? My experience is that gut shots, though certainly not what you strive for, are usually quickly fatal (anybody old enough to remember the killing of Lee Harvey Oswald?). After all, it is difficult to shoot an animal in the guts and not hit one or more of the aorta, liver, kidney, spleen, or large blood vessels associated with the digestive tract. Hitting any of these with anything other than an FMJ is fatal within a few minutes or less. Animals hit and lost are typically more often a result of muscle (flesh) wounds.

That issue aside, I agree that while a bonded or "premium" bullet is unnecessary and sometimes may not be as efficient on deer as plain old cup and core bullets, the Accubond is unlikely the factor at fault here.

He pulled it behind the ribs and knew he hit too far back. No, I can't tell you if he hit 3" behind the ribs or 4" behind. It doesn't really matter, it was a gut shot plain and simple.

Your experience does vary quite a bit from the 100s of kills I've been part of in that every animal with the exception of just a few that were hit through the gut(Read behind the ribs) went a loooonnnnngggg ways before expiring and didn't bleed hardly any due to the soft tissue blocking the hole.

For example, I flubbed the shot on a nice nine point several years ago. It was a quick shot. He was walking quickly across an opening and I shot him with a rather slow bullet (2300 MV) and didn't correct enough for lead at 155 yards. The bullet struck him behind the liver but was intended for the lungs. I searched for that buck for hours and when I found him 4 hours later he was still alive and required a finishing shot. It was poor placement on my part for sure but, If you kill enough of them, you'll get bad placement every once in a while.

Another example I thought was sort of interesting was when I went by the Taxidermist last year to drop off a couple of my bucks he was capping out a nice 8pt a fella had just brought in. He said the buck had a hole right through the middle of his guts behind the liver where someone had shot him prior too. The taxidermist said there were maggots on the holes and it was quite nasty looking. It's a wonder that buck survived that wound and he probably would have died anyway.

I don't even want to get started on some of the gut shots my hunting buddies have made over the years with their bows. Man, you're really talking about a long tracking job at times with little if any blood.

Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by Ivan:
Accubonds are junk.

My post from another site. I also have a friends thats killed a few elk with 140s out of his 7mag at rather long range. These bullets IMO perform nearly identical to Partions but shoot better for me in my rifles.

I dont' think I'll ever shoot another Partition again, the Accubonds seem to perform nearly identical to them, and now that they make them in 6.5 and 35 cal... I'm set in every caliber I own.

2004- large bodied mule deer buck, shot with 280 Rem, 140gr Accubond at about 2950fps, range 80 yards through ribs, found under skin on off side, minimal meat dammage. Buck went 5 yards and fell over dead.



2004- yearling cow elk, shot with 280 Rem, 160gr Accubond at about 2800fps, range 340 yards, pulverized spine, not recovered, minimal meat damage. Dead on the spot.



2005- Blue Wildebeest bull, shot with 280 Rem, 160gr Accubond, Range 125yards, quartering away, entered last rib, broke off side shoulder, recovered under hide. Bull ran aproximatly 50 yards. Minimal damage.



2005- Imapala, shot with 280 Rem, 160Accubond, Range 90 yards, quartering toward, enered at point of shoulder exited flank, ram ran toward me and died at approximately 25 yards.



2005- Warthog, shot with 280 Rem, 160Accubond, Range 90 yards, quartering toward, enered at point of shoulder exited flank, ran 10 yards and expired.



2005- Bushbuck, shot with 280 Rem, 160 Accubond, Range, 75 yards, laying down quartering away, high rib shot, DOA, not reovered.



2005- Bull elk, shot with 7mmRM, 160 Accubond, 3050FPS, range 90 yards, Shot 3 times, First shot through ribs, second shot, quartering away, broke off side shoulder, bull turned and ran right at me, shot again in the chest. Dropped him. Final bullet shot was recovered in a sirloin steak.



2006- cow elk, shot with 338-06AI, 200gr Accubond, 2800fps, range 150 yards, quartering away, entered last rib, broke spine and found lodged under hide on point of shoulder, no meat damage, bang flop.



2006- whitetail deer, shot with 7mm RM, 160 Accubond, range 330 yards, shot through the front shoulder/neck area, broke spine quarter size exit hole. DOA.



2006- deer, shot with 338-06AI, 200gr Accubond, range 75 yards, shot high in the ribs, not recovered, minimal meat damage.

They say a picture says a thousand words, well there are ten pictures here so I guess that is 10,000 words does anymore need to be said?

Yep, no doubt about it, Accubonds are definitely junk

Here are some more dead animals that prove it. Thing that is crazy is that bullet performance was picture perfect in every case...I even hit some bone on some of these animals






Oh, and they shoot like crap too!!



For informational purposes - I speak from the .300 Win Mag crowd using the 180 grain and 200 grain versions of the Accubond.

I think the accubonds are great...............they give the ability to smash through some big bones and also shoot great in my rifle that I am using them in.

I use the 180gr in my 300win and it shoots accuratly and kills quickly on deer, goats and elk. I am luck it and the TSX shoot to the same POI and I can interchange them. I WILL NOT use a Ballistic tip on anything bigger than a PD though!!

I also like the accubonds. I shoot a Win model 70 300wsm. I used the 150 gr and 58.5grs imr4064. Two doe's and one 8 point buck later..Dead deer with min. meat damage.

I used 160 gr Accubonds in my 7mmRSAUM for mule deer in Wyoming this year.
They did not perform anything like Partitions. I had 2 bullets explode and shred, yes shred meat from the shoulder.
I have taken two mule deer in the past two years with the same rifle using 160 gr Partitions with the excellent results I have come to expect from them.
The Accubonds are the most accurate bullets I have ever used, and no one is more disappointed than I am in the terrible performance.
Accubonds = Ballistic tip. Not Partition!

Well guys I thank you for all of your input. 300 Winnie the bullets shot very well

from my buddys rifle ,that was never a issue . They shot as well as yours did the

only thing was my bud shot them not you or I. I also would like to say that I am

no rifleman but I do shoot well. So I do know for a fact they shot very well.

Please don't be upset by this statement , I am not in anyway saying that I shoot

better than you or anyone except my buddy and a blind man can out shoot him. So

going on what each of you have said this is what I will do for him. Frist I will

change bullets for him just to ease his mind . Each of you know this is not the

answer to the problem , but he don't. So I am going to play around with his mind

and agree with him it had to be the problem. Then work up another load for him.

But here is the problem with that knowing him he would then think he now has the

magic bullet and can't miss.So that leaves me the job of teaching him how to shoot.

Which is not a bad thing I just have to get him in the mind set that just because

he now has a new bullet that does'nt mean bang flop every time. He needs to think

about what he is doing take his time and put the bullet where it counts so he does

get more bang flops. He is a little older than me so teaching him anything is going

to be hard for me, but he is my best bud so what every it takes I will do for him.

By the way thank all of you for letting me run off at the mouth I can't do it much

at home you know wife and all. And if anything I know will every help one

of you please ask, I do like to talk as you can tell it takes me two hours to say

what can be said in two minutes. Thanks again.

Gents, have any of you used the 180 grs AccuBond in a .300 Wby?? I see several of you who seem to be happy at .300 Win (Short) Mag speeds. Will the bullet over expand @ 200 fps more (or so)??

Reason I ask: I'm trying to load for a friend's .300 Wby. 180 grs Nosler Partitions did not produce the accuracy I'd been hoping for. My next (available) options are 180 grs TSX and 180 grs AccuBond. I'm pretty sure the TSX will work well, but I'd like to have an alternative just in case. I'm unsure of what the 180 grs AccuBond will do at Wby velocities??

- mike

If it were me I'd intro him to a 25/06 and or 7/08, 270 and or such. It might be for helping him out a bit...

I would also take your 300 toting friend to shooting school, you know the one where no bench lives. It may help to show him without you having to tell him where some of his areas of opportunities lie.

300 winnie-great pic of you and the kid and the cow, well done on taking the lad along.

Mark D

Mark,

Thanks for the compliment. I wish I would have had my other two in the picture...they were there, but did not go down to the elk with me and my other son.

mho,

What kind of velocities are you looking to get out of the .300 Weatherby? Factory specs are around 3,250 fps...I am at an average of 3,184 with superb performance. If that is not enough, I have a brother in law that drives the 180 Accubond out of his 300 RUM at 3350-3400 fps. He shot a bull elk at 70 yards...no problemo.

Sorry, but this sounds like i's all in your buddy's head. Changing bullets won't help poor shot placement. The NAB is a good bullet when matched to the vel./range & game, like most other bullets. Just get him to practice more & he wont' "think" he hit his deer, he'll know or not know.

quote:

Originally posted by 300winnie:
mho,

What kind of velocities are you looking to get out of the .300 Weatherby? Factory specs are around 3,250 fps...I am at an average of 3,184 with superb performance. If that is not enough, I have a brother in law that drives the 180 Accubond out of his 300 RUM at 3350-3400 fps. He shot a bull elk at 70 yards...no problemo.

Thanks mate! 3200 is in the ballpark of what I had hoped for. 3300-3400 muzzle with impact at 70 yds is a pretty tough test.
- mike

b]

quote:

PLAINVIEW - "I won't allow anyone who hunts with me to use an Accubond or a ballistic tip."

[/b]


Plainview, I'm kinda wondering how you accomplish that????

Do you just tell some "bonded bullet" using hunter to get out of the mountains/woods and to get the hell outta the hunting country! Go home! You're not allowed in my area!" ??

Just wondering.

L.W.

308WIN
150 gr accubond
24" @ 2850fps
4 shots
4 dead deer
4 different ranges
4 bullets unrecovered
4 nice size exit wounds
4 great blood trails
4 reasons (or more) i will use them again next year

quote:

Load some .30 cal., 150 gr. BT's for your buddy, at about 2900 fps.

But tell him that it is a super secret recipe that clocks 3500, with no recoil.

Then take him to the range, set him up to shoot, but YOU load the rifle out of his sight.

Let him fire two rounds. The third time, cock the rifle, but hand it to him with an empty chamber.

When he pulls the trigger, he will know why he can't shoot.

A lot of shooter don't realize that the Accubonds are designed like this

Quoting from NRA's American Rifleman from their May, 2004 issue:

"While other bulletmakers tout 90 percent weight retention from their bonded bullets, Nosler took a different approach. Its goal is deeper penetration, even at the sacrifice of weight retention. The problem with bonded bullets that are designed for high weight retention is that they quickly form a large frontal area that impedes penetration. Nosler designed its bullet to have about 60 to 70 percent weight retention. That obviously means that it will lose some weight. That's because it's designed to shed some of the expanded bullet material to keep the frontal area of the Accubond bullet a little smaller than some other bonded bullets. Accubond is designed for early expansion, but rather than tear completely apart as a Ballistic Tip often will, the Accubond's petals are designed to fold back tighter against the bullet shank. This makes a slightly smaller diameter mushroom to allow deeper penetration."

So, if you are shooting a 150 gr Accubond out of a 300 win mag (a deplorable practice IMO) the bullet shed all it's front and left that small exit. You probably had a muzzle velocity of 3300 fps or so and IMO that is way too fast with a low sectional density bullet to expect any kind of performance at all!

I shoot a 200 gr Accubond out of a 30-06 at 2700 fps and I'm here to tell you that the exit holes are dramatic!

That 150 gr AB was not too much bullet for deer it was too little and moving way too fast!

Note in the following chart how penetration depth goes down with increase velocity



You should shoot a suitable bullet and give it time to work!

I find it interesting on the above graph that the Btip has the most gradual decrease overall. I've used every bullet in that graph and the only one, for me, that always passed through was the Btip. Each of the others have been recovered when shooting a deer in the south with equal bullet wt. and same caliber.

It's real SIMPLE, leanwolfF, I said "who hunts with ME".

I don't give a crap what YOU or YOUR hunting buddies do or WHERE you do it.

If you'll take time to read the original post by 7MAG, he wanted to know what others thought. I made it pretty plain what I think, you made it pretty plain you're incapable of linear thought.

Let's try again: If THEY are in my hunting party then THEY aren't using Accubonds or THEY won't be in MY hunting party. I'm real tired of seeing deer/elk/antelope that look they they were fragged by a hand grenade. You like that kind of results, then knock yourself out. I eat what I kill--not just kill to hang it on the wall--and meat condition is #1 with me.

I loath Accubonds. You don't. Blow up whatever the hell you want to but it's not happening WITH me.

Get it NOW ?????

PLAINVIEW - "It's real SIMPLE, leanwolfF, I said "who hunts with ME".

I don't give a crap what YOU or YOUR hunting buddies do or WHERE you do it.

If you'll take time to read the original post by 7MAG, he wanted to know what others thought. I made it pretty plain what I think, you made it pretty plain you're incapable of linear thought.

Let's try again: If THEY are in my hunting party then THEY aren't using Accubonds or THEY won't be in MY hunting party. I'm real tired of seeing deer/elk/antelope that look they they were fragged by a hand grenade. You like that kind of results, then knock yourself out. I eat what I kill--not just kill to hang it on the wall--and meat condition is #1 with me.

I loath Accubonds. You don't. Blow up whatever the hell you want to but it's not happening WITH me.

Get it NOW ?????"

________________________________________________________________________________________________



Get what, Plainview??

The fact that you've firmly established you are nothing more than a childlike, egotistical, wannabee tinpot tyranical blowhard?

"I run MY hunting party with an iron fist. Whatever I say is THE LAW!!!!!"

So you won't allow anyone in YOUR hunting party to hunt with bonded bullets, huh?

Order each one in YOUR hunting party to submit their cartridges for YOUR inspection and approval or disapproval, huh??

No one has any say about their ammo in YOUR hunting party except YOU, their Lord & Master, huh?? Kick them out of camp if their bullets don't meet YOUR strict requirements, huh??

What else do you demand of YOUR hunting party?? Caliber of firearms? Brand and model of sleeping bags? Knife blade style and length? Type of boots and socks and shorts they wear. Inspect each and every one before allowing them to enter into YOUR Sacred and Royal hunting party?? BossMan of the Boonies, are you, Plainview??

If you're capable of any comprehension whatsoever of the written words in my previous post, you might notice I neither approved or disapproved of "bonded bullets," no matter that you moronically stated ... "... fragged by a hand grenade. You like that kind of results, then knock yourself out."

Actually, I've never used Accubonds or Interbonds. I've managed to do quite well over many, many years hunting all over the West using Nosler Partitions, Interlocks, and yes, even Rem. CoreLokts. Plus several others.

Your response is so idiotically juvenile as to be the blatherings of a fifth grade "special needs" child.

If you even had a real brain, you'd take it out and let the kiddies on the school yard play volley ball with it.

If this is just too difficult for you to fathom, ask one of your fifth grade special needs schoolmates to read it and explain it to you.

Is that "linear" enough for you, Plainview??

L.W.

Dang, leanwolf, guess this means you aren't gonna hunt with me. Well, heck. I was looking forward to more of your thoughtful insights. Shucks. Durn. I was hoping I'd really get to know how you insightfully articulated your emotions when someone dared to (gasp) disagree with you.

Real shame. Would have been fun.

But hey, you still can as long as you don't bring any Accubonds! (Rules, you know--got lots of 'em here in the 5th grade--you'll see when you get here in a few more years)

By the way chum, I went to school with a number of special needs students--some who are still my friends. Flame me all you want but no need to disparage those less fortunate than you. That's a sorry attitude.

In Zim this year I shot a 7mmRem with 160gr Accubonds. I killed Leopard, Zebra, Wildebeest, Impala's, Bushpig, a shitload of Dassies, and 2 Baboons, one at 355yards. I love them!

quote:

PLAINVIEW -I was hoping I'd really get to know how you insightfully articulated your emotions when someone dared to (gasp) disagree with you.

Disagree with me? Well, chum, you need to go back and read my original post, then read your response to my questions. You began the flames, not I. I merely responded to you in kind.

Doubt we'll ever manage to hunt together, even though I don't use Accubonds or Interbonds. As I said, Nosler Partitions and Hornady Interlocks do me just fine.

Used to hunt Colorado quite often when I lived in Los Angeles, but living in Idaho for the past nine years... well, there's pretty good elk, deer, Black bear, antelope, and moose hunting here (what the damned wolves haven't eaten, that is), so I hang around these Idaho mountains for hunting.

You take care now.

L.W.

Clem,
I killed as bunch of game this year in Zimbabwe with my 7mmRem 160gr Accubond's...I recovered only 2 bullets, one from a Zebra and the other from a Blue Wildebeest, and both looked exactly like the bullet in your picture. I love them, and they shoot 3/4" groups in my rifle.

I used 160 gr. Accu in my 7mm RM this year for Elk. I hit the 6X6 bull 3 times (2 in the lungs and one in the heart) and got full penetration each time at 150 yds.They worked for me.

I read alot of wild ranting and raving here, blaming an expanding bullet for doing what it is made to do.

I've been hunting North American big game for a little over 40 years now, taking well over 100 big game animals varying in size from Pronghorn Antelope to Moose and Buffalo. I've hunted in Colorado, Wyoming, Alaska, Canada twice, and Africa twice. I've taken 21 animals in Africa varying in size from Duiker to Buffalo. I'm proud to say that most of the animals i've harvested were one shot kills. But every shot was different.

I have successfully hunted with archery, muzzleloaders, and handguns, but I primarily hunt with a rifle. Except for my first deer and elk, all of my hunting has and is done with handloads. I have handloaded and successfully hunted with bullets from Speer, Sierra, Winchester, Remington, Hornady, Nosler, and Barnes.

My primary rifle for deer, pronghorn, and sheep is a .257 Ackley pushing a 115-120 grain bullet at 2950-3000 fps. It hasn't mattered what brand of a spitzer soft point or hollow point bullet I used in this rifle. A shot behind the shoulder has resulted in a complete pass-through and a dead animal within 40 yds of where he was standing.

My primary elk and moose rifle has been my .30 Gibbs pushing a 180 gr Nosler Partition out at 2995 fps. Hit just behind the shoulder usually results in the rear half of the Partition bullet stopping just under the skin in the off side. Elk that had a bone hit with this bullet had large shredded meat wound channels and a bloodshot area 1-1 1/2 feet in diameter.

The rifle I used for one of my Canadian hunts and for most Plains game that I harvested in Africa was a 7mm Rem Mag using Nosler 140 gr Ballistic Tips and 160 gr Accubonds, at 3100 and 3000 fps. I agree that the 140 gr BT's were on the light side, but they shot more accurately than Partitions, and they made one shot kills on Kudu, Gemsbuck, Blue Wildebeest, Impala, and Bushbuck. I am currently using the 160 gr Accubonds in this rifle. They shoot under 1 MOA and have accounted for one shot kills on two Caribou, a Common Duiker, a Mtn Reedbuck, a Blesbok, a Black Wildebeest, and a Red Hartebeest. I am returning to South Africa this coming September for some Plains Game species that I haven't hunted yet, and the rifle I will take will be my 7mm Rem Mag with 160 gr Accubond handloads.

I guess the point of all this rambling is that from my hunting experience, I have found that just about any modern expanding hunting bullet put in the heart/lung area of a game animal will result in a quick kill. Any bullet traveling at 2700 plus fps that I have shot an animal with, that hit muscle or bone has resulted in massive muscle (i.e. meat) damage.

I will be the first to agree that some bullets perform better than others, and that each bullet is designed for a different purpose. But for every animal that I have seen shot and not immediately killed, I would blame the shooting before I would blame the bullet.

I took a cow elk in New Mexico in 2006 with a 160 gr accubond from a 7mm rem mag. She travelled about 50 yds. Forward rib shot, no shoulder damage, point of impact right where I called the shot. Obviously no spine contact so no major bone impact. I used the gutless method and did not open the chest cavity, but was struck by the relatively small exit hole. Larger than the entrance hole, but not by a lot.

Seems like the bullet did what it was supposed to. I am planning a bull elk hunt in Idaho this year and am considering trophy bonded or partition. Baed on my experience and this thread,may stick with the accubond.