Well I had my first Bullet "blow-up" ever yesterday evening on a 7pt.

When you hear Blow up you probably think he was using varmint bullets or a real soft bullet like an sst... Not the case. This Blow-up occurred w/ a 150 grain .308 partition gold fired from a 06 at 2990 fps MV @ 12'.

The buck came in behind me chasing does and I didn't know what size he was but I knew he was probably going to bust me because he was directly down wind so as soon as I got a hole in the brush to the vitals I took the first shot. He was quatering towards me and that bullet entered behind the shoulder and exited in front of the ham(Yep, got the guts ). Well upon firing the first shot he ran like I didn't touch him so I chambered another round and fired a second shot as he entered a lane about 80 yards from me.

The second round hit him sqaure in the shoulder, exploded the top of the shoulder on entry, and exited right out the top of the shouler in the same area on the same side. Never made it into his cavity. There wasn't even any blood in the wound, just hair and bone. I don't believe it would have killed him but, he'd probably have died from infection.

The funny thing about it is that I've been using NBTs for years and you would know when I decide to give partions another run this sort of thing happens . Never had a blow-up like this w/ any bullet even after killing piles of them w/ NBTs.

Here's a pic of the entrance wound:



I'm just glad I got into him on the first round.

The rut is just now starting here, the next few weeks should be interesting.

Good Luck

Reloader

A lot of guessing with no proof of an actual "blow-up" in your post or pic's...

quote:

A lot of guessing with no proof of an actual "blow-up" in your post or pic's...

Not sure I understand your comment. Are you seeing the same picture I'm posting??

There is a hole larger than a grown man's fist that is just a surface crater. That hole is the entrance and exit wound all in the same area.

It didn't even make it to the ribs and didn't penetrate any vital tissue.

The blood shot wound just behind the shoulder is from the killing shot.

Don't know what you define to be a blow-up. I've never had one after more kills than I care to count and this is as close to a Blow-up that I can imagine.


Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by Reloader:

quote:

A lot of guessing with no proof of an actual "blow-up" in your post or pic's...

Not sure I understand your comment. Are you seeing the same picture I'm posting??

There is a hole larger than a grown man's fist that is just a surface crater. That hole is the entrance and exit wound all in the same area.

It didn't even make it to the ribs and didn't penetrate any vital tissue.

The blood shot wound just behind the shoulder is from the killing shot.

Don't know what you define to be a blow-up. I've never had one after more kills than I care to count and this is as close to a Blow-up that I can imagine.


Reloader

Personally, I see a big blurry picture. Could be the bullet "glanced" off a bone and exited. Your account isn't very clear nor is the picture... how could you or anyone draw definite conclusions based on what you've presented?

Picture looks fine to me. it is a picture of the whole deer hanging just after I pulled the hide down a bit. I should have placed a coke can or something in the hole to give a scale reference. The wound was approx 5-6" long, 3" tall, it stops on the meat behind the blade short of entering through the rib cage.

Brad, You must be a die hard partition lover , Ruffled your feathers a bit huh


Call it what you want.

Who said anything about drawing conclusions????

Does this mean Partitions are bad? No one said that.

The FACT is the Bullet impacted square on the shoulder of a small bodied whitetail and literally exploded the shoulder and didn't penetrate enough to cause a fatal wound.

The bullet failed plain and simple.

Reloader

Weird things happen when bullets hit bone...

A bullet designed to plow through pure bone wouldn't do very well if you shot through pure guts, would it?

The bullet has to be able to perform in both examples, and therefore you get odd things happening sometimes when the bullet encounters one or the other exclusively, especially at angle.

I wouldn't call it a failure, but you might.

Seems like everyone on the 'net these days is trying to document a 'bullet failure'....maybe it was simply bullet placement failure.

Been slinging partitions at game over 30 years. They are known to penetrate. They are also known to be fairly soft on the front end and will fragment on contact with heavy bone.

Thanks for sharing.

I am not convinced that the bullet blew up either.

Where is the bullet?

Did you find any fragments at all?

I would expect that if the bullet did fragment that there would be a LOT of jacket pieces.

Are you sure you did not just graze this deer?

Better luck on the rest of your hunts.

I had a similar occurence many years ago with a 140/6.5mm Partition on a whitetail's shoulder. Upon the shot, I could see a big hunk of red where the bullet removed part of the shoulder and left a gaping wound, but did not penetrate to the vitals. It was a shot at a rather shallow angle, as I suspect yours was. The bullet did not "fail" per se, it simply hit bone at a somewhat shallow angle and deflected back outward, as might any bullet of any construction.

Bullets of any construction can and do deflect on occasion. This is not a poor reflection on the bullet, but rather a fact of life that projectiles at high speed behave unusually upon striking a solid object some percentage of the time.

BTW: There's probably no better bullet for deer than the mid-weight Ballistic Tips. They combine rapid expansion (producing the necessary tissue trauma) with greater than anticipated penetration (due to the solid base design). Remember, these are deer, not buffalo. They're one of the smallest "big game" animals and don't require much "toughness" in a bullet. I had a friend bring his wife to hunt on my place with the same 70 grain NBTs she uses for prairie dogs in her .243. The smallish buck she shot through the thorax fell immediately and was unable to rise. The retained weight of the bullet could not be ascertained since it exited the far side ribcage ("far" being a relative term in a broadside deer), but I'll bet it wasn't more than about 30 grains or so of jacket base and a little smear of lead. That, however, is irrelevant: The buck's vitals were jelly from entrance to exit and it fell where it stood. Now, I would have recommended that she use a 90 or 95 grain BTip instead, but as the incident illustrates, deer aren't all that hard to kill.

David,

I agree. I will admit i expected alittle more out of the NPTG on a impact to a whitetail shoulder.

On the bullet placement note, When a deer's moving and you are shooting freehand from 25' up a pine out of a Summit Bushmaster w/ no prop, you do the best you can .

That first shot did all I could have asked for, it destroyed the lungs, diaphram, liver, and still exited. I don't try to intentionally shoot game in the shoulders when I can help it but, it happens to the best of us in the heat of the moment at times.

I wish every shot was from a bench rest on a feeding broadside deer in a wide open field . To bad we can't get the wild whitetails to go along w/ that plan...

Yes, Stonecreek I agree the NBTs do work splendid for whitetails. I've killed piles of them w/ the .284 150s w/ great results.


Have a Good One

Reloader

This post is not meant to flame Partitions at all. I happen to think a Nosler Partition is "The Bullet" for alot of game animals. Clearly not needed for little whitetail sized game but darn fine bullets.

This post is merely a weird occurrence that I thought I'd share w/ you fellas and should be used as a good reminder that no bullets are 100% every time. This could have happened w/ any bullet. Strange things do happen every now and then.

Ya'll have a wonderful weekend and good luck. I'm headed back to the woods in a few hours to try for ole' mossy.

Reloader

Good luck.....

Wow ... the only time we've seen anything like this with this caliber and bullet weight has been when we think the bullet hit something on the way to the target causing destabilization.

They do make a terrible mess then. Much worse than a normal impact. Kinda like this one.

quote:

Wow ... the only time we've seen anything like this with this caliber and bullet weight has been when we think the bullet hit something on the way to the target causing destabilization.

Nothing touched but the deer during flight. It was a clear lane on that shot. It was one of the larger entrance wounds I've seen.

Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
Wow ... the only time we've seen anything like this with this caliber and bullet weight has been when we think the bullet hit something on the way to the target causing destabilization.

They do make a terrible mess then. Much worse than a normal impact. Kinda like this one.

could be that too

Looks like it hit something on the way there...

Your absolutely positive there is no way...anything could have been in the way?

The picture is quite blurry. You need to adjust the camera settings or get a better one. Though, the hole does look big from what I can make out of the image. I'd keep using those Partitions.

Without seeing the angle of the shot exactly; my best guess is that the Nosler PT performed exactly as designed. the Entrance wound and the exit wound are a few inches apart on the same side of the body. the PT was going very fast and "blew" it's front portion as designed but since there was not much tissue to provide dissapation of the energy and bullet, it blew out a big hunk of shoulder. Through that hole sailed the rear portion of the partition merrily on it's way. Had this bullet landed back on the spine a ways and exited at the bottom of the chest, I think you would have seen what you expected to see from the Nosler PT, a decent entrance wound, jelly in the chest, decent exit wound. Just a guess based on what you show and say.

Sounds more like the bullet hit something on the way there.

Clear shot doesn't take but a little twig to cause it to tumble or start to expand.

Easy to miss seeing one when shooting at game.

Picture looks fine to me! I also believe from your desciption and the picture that the bullet did indeed blow up. Could have been something in the way though for whatever reason, shoot enough game and sooner or later it will happen.

Not to start anything but the picture that shows up on my monitor is quite blurry.

I think that from time to time, bullets of any kind can do funny things when they hit the shoulder plate. While I've never had a problem like this with a partition, I've had Ballistic tips hit the shoulder plate and deflect out the front of the chest. Glad you were able to get the deer.

I'm trying to get an idea about the two entrance/exit wounds of the shots - does this look close? (1in and 1out is the first shot, 2in-2out the second).

Hey guy hang with me here, but it sounds like both bullets went in and both bullets exited.

Is that about correct?

I guess I can't quite figure why you're saying it blew up?

Thx

Mark D

Reloder,

Personally I think we can encounter an anomaly with any bullet and I consider NP's among the very best and most dependable. Because I've shot the 338 WM quite a bit I've had a lot of experience with the 210 NP. In most cases with animals of caribou size or smaller you get a through hand through from about any angle. Although on Kodiak Is. I spined a big Sitka backtail and rather than the bullet exiting it turned 90 degrees down and 30 degrees right and ended up in the brisket. Weird behavior particularly on a 150 pound animal. I still love NP's and recommend them. I just think any bullet can on rare occasion exibit abnomal and erratic behavior.

Mark

I've only killed 2 animals with partitions.
One a whitetail doe at about 150 yds with 338win mag 210gr dropped like you pulled the earth out from under it. Bullet performed perfectly.
The other 8 point whitetail 290 yds with 300RUM 180gr ran probably 10 yards, insides were destroyed, dont know how it ever moved.
Although these were only whitetail deer the partitions appeared to do what they were designed to do. The front open quickly and the rear keep on going.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Reloader:

quote:
A lot of guessing with no proof of an actual "blow-up" in your post or pic's...



Not sure I understand your comment. Are you seeing the same picture I'm posting??

There is a hole larger than a grown man's fist that is just a surface crater. That hole is the entrance and exit wound all in the same area.

It didn't even make it to the ribs and didn't penetrate any vital tissue.

The blood shot wound just behind the shoulder is from the killing shot.

Don't know what you define to be a blow-up. I've never had one after more kills than I care to count and this is as close to a Blow-up that I can imagine.


Reloader


Personally, I see a big blurry picture. Could be the bullet "glanced" off a bone and exited. Your account isn't very clear nor is the picture... how could you or anyone draw definite conclusions based on what you've presented?

Reloader
Don't let these jerks that argue semantics get you down. blow up may not have benn the most accurate discription of you bullets preformance, but anyone who knows bullets and hunting understood what ypu said. The bullet did not preform as expected. ie. expansion and straight line penatration.

I have hunted and killed gane with NP and the NBT. Neither of which I use at this time. I have seen both fail to preform as inspected, and eve if they do ok neither can be expected to reach the Vitals from any angle. If I have a Monster whitetail standing facing away at 200yd I'm going to shoot him and the only bullet I trust for this job is a Barnws TSX.
I belive in shooting the bullet that will do the job in the worst case.

DR B

quote:

Reloader
Don't let these jerks that argue semantics get you down. blow up may not have benn the most accurate discription of you bullets preformance, but anyone who knows bullets and hunting understood what ypu said. The bullet did not preform as expected. ie. expansion and straight line penatration.

I have hunted and killed gane with NP and the NBT. Neither of which I use at this time. I have seen both fail to preform as inspected, and eve if they do ok neither can be expected to reach the Vitals from any angle. If I have a Monster whitetail standing facing away at 200yd I'm going to shoot him and the only bullet I trust for this job is a Barnws TSX.
I belive in shooting the bullet that will do the job in the worst case.

DR B

Another Dale Carnegie graduate I see...

Shocking as it may be, Reloader's post is full of assumption's and is unclear. I was attempting to get more information to understand why he's referring to a "blow-up" (which means to me: "Catastrophic Failure")... so far he hasn't shed any more light.

But, unlike "Doctor" B, I favor the scientific method in evaluating bullets... he must be some great dog surgeon though!

Well 150 gr .308 bullets are a little on the stubby side and tend to do some strange things from time to time when you hit meat and bone. My guess you hit the ball joint, High Vel and something very hard. You hunt long enough and shoot enough game and you will see some strange things. I been shooting Nosler Partitions in my hunting since 1968, and I can tell you shot for shot they are about as good as it gets. And the ones you buy today are way better than the ones they made in 1968. My Uncle use to shoot nothing but a 150 gr bullet out of his 308 and it did some strange things from time to time. He went to a 165 or 180 gr bullet and the problem when away. I think the .308 150 gr bullet has a tendency to tumble more than others and that maybe the reason for the weird hits.

Hey Reloader, I'll post my favorite bradley quote of all time.

quote:

Originally posted by bradley:
C'Mon now Xxxx, don't go muddying-up this thread with facts...

It can be traced back to this M70 thread where bradley tried to convince people he knew something about the M70 Triggers.

As you can clearly see, having no knowledge at all on a rifle/hunting related subject, or not having witnessed something(as in the situation with your Bullet), has never stopped bradley from letting everyone realize what he actually doesn't know.
---

Strange experience from a Partition for sure. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Thanks for sharing that. I hunt almost exclusively w/ NPs in several calibers. I have only had great results. Just goes to show that anything can & will happen when hunting. Your impact vel. was almost muzzle vel. Me, I would switch to a slightly heavier bullet or slow my MV down a bit. The NP is a great bullet but it's till asking alot for one to stay together @ 2950fps. For such point blank shooting, 2500fps is more than enough.

Reloader: I read your post and I am not dissuaded one iota from continuing the use of Nosler Partitions!
I have used them for 45 years now and highly recommend them to any Hunter for use on Big and Medium Size Game.
If its your intention to deride Nosler Partitions you are gonna have to somehow over-ride my extensive use of them on Mt. Goats, Elk, Bear, Mule Deer, Antelope, Whitetails and the like!
And, you are gonna have to not "bring home the bacon" like you did with your Louisianna Whitetail!
You made the decision to "try" an iffy shot and you needed one follow-up!
WHERE is Nosler to blame???
I have used and seen used for many decades now, all manner and size of Nosler Partitions - and with ANY kind of a heart/lung shot with these superb bullets the Game Animal has been brought to bag!
I could care less if they "blow up" and make tiny schrapnel holes in the creature!
That can, AND will, happen with any bullet! Often these "schrapnel" wounds are caused by splintering bone!
If a Game Animal is "quartering at you" and you shoot him "behind the shoulder" that is exactly what is gonna happen every time! The bullet will travel towards and often into the gut cavity!
You sound surprised!
Did you expect the bullet to enter behind the shoulder as the animal was "quartering toward you" then somehow that Nosler bullet was supposed to do a "U" turn and enter the heart/lung area - for a one shot kill???
I wouldn't expect that to happen and I would CERTAINLY not blame the bullet for doing EXACTLY what the norm would be!
Again I am dumbfounded and befuddled as to your attempt at criticism here in this instance.
Perhaps criticism is due but certainly NOT of the Nosler Partition bullets!
My suggestion is for you to keep using these fine bullets and make an effort to "wait" for a better shot. Especially if you are gonna try to sluff off blame onto the Nosler for not being able to do a "U" turn (mid Game Animal body!) and go strike some vitals for a one shot kill!
If you DO find a bullet that can make "U" turns and make up for the poor decision making of its human users - be sure to let me know what bullet that is!
Long live the wonderful, amazing, accurate, dependable and lethal Nosler Partition line!
Yeah I am a "die hard" Nosler Partion (and Ballistic Tip!) fan and the only thing about your posting that ruffled any feathers on me was your poor decision making, poor shot placement and your ridiculous expectation for the Nosler to do a "U" turn AFTER striking the game animal!
Think about what you are doing and saying, man!
Nosler Partitions are the tough duty choice of legions of knowledgeable Hunters and your observations won't have a snowballs chance in hell of changing any minds.
Long live the Nosler Company!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

Originally posted by VarmintGuy:

...If you DO find a bullet that can make "U" turns and make up for the poor decision making of its human users - be sure to let me know what bullet that is!

Oswald Dallas63', in through the base rear of neck,out the front,jumped up,did a Uey, re-entered and exited rear of skull.Dont know where you would get some these days,not common on the shelf back then either.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
...Oswald Dallas63', in through the base rear of neck,out the front,jumped up,did a Uey, re-entered and exited rear of skull.Dont know where you would get some these days,not common on the shelf back then either.

Hey Woodjack, Those would be nice for using when we have other Deer(Elk, etc.) beyond the one you are shooting. I'd sure like to hear about the Design Envelope of those Bullets if anyone knows about it - maybe bradley!

Hi Folks

Since a bullet can bounce off mud/water if the angle is shallow enogh @ 7 degrees then the bullet possible entered, expanded and exited after deflecting off the shoulder.
These things happen if you take offhand shots at running game who are 80 yds away. That whole shoulder area is a very dynamic target
As they say the more you shoot at things the more strange things will happen. The bullet was fine but the deer blew up.

Mark

Some folks just can't understand things and you have to tell them over and over and over....

1) This is not a post to put down any bullet

2) The bullet that failed entered and exited in the same area. It hit the thick part of the bone at the base of the blade and literally exploded the shoulder and turned right back out of the animal causing nothing but a surface wound. The wound behind the huge gapping hole was the killing shot that jellied the lungs, diaphram, and liver.

3)The shot was down a clear shooting lane so it did not hit anything along the way but, if you do insist that it hit something then just maybe a bird flew up and ran into the bullet during flight

VG, stay off the coffee man, your post doesn't make much since.

This post was purely an informative one to let you guys know that no bullet is 100% every time and after enough kills you are gonna see some pretty iffy performance from time to time.

Next time I'll just leave the camera in the truck and just let the guys at camp see the results.

Will I discontinue the use of NPTs, Heck No, I advise folks to use them all of the time as well as load them for friends and still feel they are great bullets when a tough bullet is needed.

Good Luck to you fellas, The rut is in full swing here so we are starting to see a few bucks. I can only imagine the cold front coming through this weekend is going to make things real exciting.

Reloader

quote:

Hi Folks

Since a bullet can bounce off mud/water if the angle is shallow enogh @ 7 degrees then the bullet possible entered, expanded and exited after deflecting off the shoulder.
These things happen if you take offhand shots at running game who are 80 yds away. That whole shoulder area is a very dynamic target
As they say the more you shoot at things the more strange things will happen. The bullet was fine but the deer blew up.

Mark

I certainly agree Mark, when you shoot enough things, strange things happen.

There are so many different variables to the equation. I think you are right, I should have said deer blow-up Seems you mention partition in any bullet failure discussion a few feathers get ruffled.

Have a Good One

Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Now, I would have recommended that she use a 90 or 95 grain BTip instead, but as the incident illustrates, deer aren't all that hard to kill.

My hunting buddy used a .223 with a 55gr soft point this year. Killed his doe with one shot to the head (yes, that load had the neccessary energy to be legal in Nebraska). Didn't want to use it, but was all he had on hand.

quote:

The bullet that failed... literally exploded

See, that's the part I hang up on... you don't KNOW any of that happened as you did't recover the bullet... you SURMISE all the above. Your problem is more than likely bullet placement. Were you shooting down from above in a treestand? Bullets will deflect off bone given a poor angle.

I like and have used all sorts of bullets from Speer Hotcores and Nosler Ballistic Tips to Partition's and Triple Shoks. I refrain from making dogmatic assertions about any of them based on one experience or the anectdotal evidense of one experience without actually recovering the bullet.

EXAMPLES from the last two years...

Here's a 180 Partition I dug out of a bull elk last week. Since it lost 39% of its weight and was recovered in a dead animal I guess, by your investigative standards, it blew up and failed:





Here's a 168 Barnes TSX I found in a bull elk last year. Since it retained 100% of its weight it suceeded, right?

Brad,

I see no point in your post.

Why don't you just view the facts and DEAL WITH IT.

I've killed 100s of game animals so I could really care less of your ridiculous disagreement w/ me on this.

The Bullet BLEW-UP the deers shoulder and DID NOT PENETRATE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND! It's not rocket science.

This is an informative post not a post for you to defend you favorite bullet. I never said Nosler Partitions were not good bullets but, This one Failed plain and simple. All bullets can and will fail its just a matter of statistics.

Geeze, some folks just refuse to hear facts even when it's beneath their nose. I bet if I didn't have the picture you'd probably say I was lying. Why don't you just accept the fact that this bullet failed.


If it will make you feel better, you can just imagine that our little ole' hills deer have steel plates in their shoulders. If you come down this way, be sure you bring at least a 50BMG w/ FMJs

Ya'll have a Good One

Reloader