quote:

Originally posted by jstevens:
This BS about this truck and that wears me out. I've been in the car business since 1984, have managed a dealership since 1990. I t doesn't matter what kind of warranty a Toyota has, you won't need it, absolutely BS statement. I started out selling Toyotas and Hondas, most had 12-2-0 techs and they were churning out 60 hours of labor a week and were sure as hell not doing oil changes. They all break, they all need warranty. Lets not be silly here, just because we like something. Desert Ram said something about Ford and solid front axles, Ford hasn't had one since the F350 of 1997 I believe. As for drivetrain, you will have more problems with a Dodge auto transmission than any other model. The simple fact is that most of the later model trucks are good for over 200000 miles, whether Dodge, Ford, Chev or toyota. I have for a hunting truck a very clean 1994 full- size Blazer- with 180000 miles. My son just got back from a ski trip to Co. with it in Dec., I wouldn't be afraid to take it anywhere. Pick whatever you like they are all pretty good, but don't tell me a Toyota doesn't need a warranty, that is a foolish statement. If they didn't need a warranty to compete and take care of repairs, they sure as hell wouldn't offer one.

I think that is the most truth from a car dealer I have ever heard!!

I have owned Chevys Fords and now Dodges. The perfect truck for me would be a Chevy with a Cummins motor. I do like the Cummins and will drive Dodges until they put them in something else. However you said you didn't tow so I guess it is a toss up. If I were you I would get what was the most comfortable to sit in and drive.

Wow! Hit a nerve? Chill..... I've had several Toyotas in various configurations and haven't needed the warranty on any of them yet. I have had to take the Fords, Oldsmobiles, Chevrolets, Dodges and Hondas that I have owned in for warranty and otherwise repairs.

But the Toyotas? No, not me, Just been lucky I guess and I do all my own minor repair. You speak from personal experience and I guess you know everthang they is to know about the car bidness. I speak from personal experience too, so there it is. I'm real sorry if that irks you , that's your problem, not mine.

Of course I would expect a warranty on anything I buy but, in my experience, I haven't needed it on my Toyotas. Bah!

Oh, and I said, "It doesn't really matter what kind of warranty Toyota has, you probably won't need to use it."

Perfectly qualified statement. Never said Toyota doesn't need a warranty. It's foolish to misquote.

I think I understand though. I used to sell crappy cars too.

Alan

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Daily_Auto_Ne...ota.S173.A12413.html

I'm sure the owners of these Tundras are happy they have warranties.

Funny coincidence. I bought a 2008 Silverdo 2500HD 4x4 diesel yesterday and will pick it up today or tomorrow. I have owned a toyota, a couple of Fords, and a couple of Dodges; I never had a Chevy because I didn't care for the way they looked. I really like the new model, and did a bunch of internet research on the 2008 vehicle rankings. I intended to look at Ford, Dodge, and Chevy, but after my research and the test drive, I decided to go ahead and give the Chevy a try.

Toyota is Recalling and fixing a perceived problem unrelated to any warranty as a part of their own quality control efforts. I know a little about that Toyota plant and I know that they take great pride in turning out a quality product.

Alan

If your not hunting anything larger than deer or black bear, look at the Toyota Tacoma.

1. $23,000 Crewcab 4x4, loaded offroad package
2. Built in Fremont California
3. You can take it places most of the other "big"trucks could only dream of going.
4. Toyota reliability.

Not needing a warranty?

I've heard that about a couple of makes and let me point out in a singhe sentance the fallacy of it.

Behind the dealer showroom of ANY make vehicle you WILL find a service department and the guys inside will not be sitting at a table playing solitare.

AD

I enjoyed the candor of the dealership manager/owner,I was a mechanic for 38 years,11 years at Chevrolet,9 years at Ford and Toyota dealerships and just 5 years at a Dodge and Nissan dealership,all break.The newer vehicles are more trustworthy than the older ones and I feel are close to the quality of Toyota and Nissan if not the same.I like the all wheel drive of the Chevrolets,all 4 wheels pull going straight,in a turn the front inside shaft binds and sends a collar off center and allows the inside to free wheel to turn,other than that all 4 wheels pull.Standard drive systems involve an open hypoid differential which means 1 in the front and 1 wheel in the rear pull,hit black ice and you spin,with a positive traction rear differential you keep going straight if the front wheels stay intact.Thats why I like Chevy,I drive a Ford and have had good success with Fords but I put a positive traction carrier in the rear from the start.Just an opinion.Drop-Shot

Allen

There is not a car company in the world foreign or domestic or any combination thereof that starts a recall campaign BEFORE numerous common complaints have been received by the customers and dealers techs. I have no doubt that the factory workers take pride in their work, most do, despite what the public may think. The Toyota Tundra has been plagued by recalls. A recall is terrible press for a vehicle, and they are not initiated to solve any 'perceived' problem. I not only manage the sales end of a dealership, but have first and foremost always been a 'car' man, which has always given me a unique perspective because I understand the theory and mechanics of a car. I ran a comp eliminator type drag car for 15 years, normally freshened at least 3 engines a year, built my own transmissions, both manual and racing powerglides, rear ends, carburetors to pan. Allen is right, the techs are not playing solitaire on the computer ten hours a day at a Toyota, Honda, Ford, or GM dealership.

LHook

You'll like the Duramax, they are a stout engine. I have a customer who bought a used 2001 to use as a pulling truck, ran three stacked chips and nitrous oxide on the stock Duramax bottom end and Allison trans. He won enough they outlawed NOS the second year. It took him three years to hurt the trans, pulling every weekend. This truck put out so much power, he took it to the local 1/8 mile drag strip, the 4x4 ext cab went 7.90 at 89 mph, fast enough the track owner required a roll cage in the truck before he would let him run it again.

Driver aged <25 Asian cars
25-55 American cars
55+ European

I wonder how accurate this would be?

The bread and butter of any dealership is it's Service Department. The glamour is in the sales and the Service Dept. feeds the bulldog. I am far from being a "car man", I just drive em, and fix what I can. I fix less on the Toyotas. I don't particularly like the new Tundras. They are not what I think Toyotas are supposed to be. I toured the plant once for a day, had a great time and found "The Toyota Way" to be something akin to what "Good old American Value and Quality" used to be. It's not something they made up, it's something they learned form us.

They seem to be selling a few of them despite the recalls.

Alan

I am sure Toyota needs a warrenty but I have been driving Toyota trucks since 1982 and I have yet to use one of them. I have owned Ford, Dodge and Chevie trucks. And one GMC Jimmy DLX 4x4 that my wife drove. IMO, I'd drive a wheel barrow before I'd drive another GMC product.
That may sound like a lot of Toyota trucks but I am only on my 4th one. A 2005 with 55,000miles.

My 1999 F-250 gets 16.5 mpg which is .5mpg better than I got with my similar Toyota half ton 4x4...and as far as reliablity...my Ford is by far the best truck I have ever had.
I would buy another based on this...but with only 120,000
miles it will be awhile and I may just put in a fresh engine
at 200,000 or so...thereby extending the useful life further.

Well, my own personal statistics are as follows:

2002 Toyota Tundra: 105K miles, took to dealer for a TSB on front brakes. During work, dealer had to remove tie rod ends, and subsequently tried to charge me for the new ones as that was "just the way it is." I told them to pucker up and plant a sweet one on my left ass cheek. I paid nothing.

2005 F150: on 4 occasions, truck attempted to shift into 4x4 on its own while I was driving. Dealer could not duplicate problem, so Ford would not fix it. Occurred at 3K miles, 10K miles, 11K miles, and 13K miles. Very episodic. Another dealer said they knew exactly what the problem was and fixed it. Problem never occurred again. Also, on 2 occasions, while driving, radio and heater shut off on their own. Finally, during cold months, belt made loud noise when truck drove uphill. Belt was replaced winter of 05 and again in 06. Sold truck last August.

1979 Power Wagon: too many problems. if I typed them all, I'd get carpal tunnel syndrome.

1986 F150: same as power wagon.

1990 Nissan Pathfinder: at 100K miles, had to replace slave cylinder for brakes. Otherwise, not one issue ever, until I did something uneducated and stupid by running it to 120K miles on dino oil, then was persuaded to put Mobil 1 full synthetic in it of same weight. I didn't even get home and the motor cavitated while driving (guess that synthetic cleaned any sludge deposits), and motor never ran the same. Donated it to goodwill.

One way you can tell what an "authority" thinks of the different makes of trucks is to ask what the extended warranty will cost you from a non-make company, like warrantydirect.com. The cheaper the coverage, the more reliable the rig, according to their research. That said, extended warranties were less expensive on Toyota trucks vs all others.

hey doc - loved the "carpal tunnel" comment. i'm still laughing!
thanks

Toyota seems to have great motors, but the frames sure go to hell up here. Nobody bothers with a toyota for a farm truck, hauling equipment, snowplowing ect. The thin walled box frame section traps and holds salt and they rot quick. Run your snowplow into a good frozen bank trying to push back a snowpile, or have a load of hay slam foreward down a hill and the frames breaks. There;s a welder in town that's got real good at reworking and bracing toyota frames for the hobby horse farms though. Got pretty good at patching the rear diff that rust through and leak too, otherwise it's replace the whole rearend as it's a one piece unit.
Never seen a perfect truck yet for our use here.

I recently hunted in Wyoming. The pickup the guide used was a Toyota Tacoma. He said he expected it to last 8 years. I can hardly imagine it considering the hills, ruts and speeds he operated it in. The amazing thing was that he never had to put it in 4 wheel drive.

The vehicle I rode out in was also a Toyota (the SUV version of the Tacoma pickup) pulling a BIG trailer. It had plenty of power and was quite comfortable.

I had the opportunity to speak with an engineer who used to work at Ford. He said the practice of Japanese automakers was to build quality. He said the practice of Ford was to take out quality if the life of a particular part was considered too long. As an example, he said an aftermarket alternator for a Ford vehicle could be expected to last longer than the factory version.

Seeing as hauling and towing are not really a thought, it would be beneficial to be looking at a "compact" pickup... Unfortunately those that are available are all pretty good trucks... Do some research (I noticed you checked on third party extended warranties) and then go test drive them... One thing is always possible is that you might find a lemon in anyone of them... It simply happens...

But a smaller truck sounds like it will fit the bill for you... I read here somewhere in the thread about the "posi" rearends... Trust me, when it comes to a 4x4 they are always the way to go... Good luck in your search...

Ken....

quote:

I would buy another based on this...but with only 120,000
miles it will be awhile and I may just put in a fresh engine
at 200,000 or so...thereby extending the useful life further.

I know a contractor that has 4 F250's all with over 300k on the dials and all with there original motors in em. You've got away to go yet.

Despite the commercials, I would probably choose something else, probably a F-F-F-Fo-er-d, if I had any heavy hauling to do on a regular basis. When I did do that I had a 1-ton Dually Chevrolet with a 454 and a 4:11 rear end. It got 8 MPG empty or pulling a 32' gooseneck with 25000#. I did use the warranty on it regularly. I decided a while back though that I was not going to pull anything heavier than my boat or anything further than the lake so my T100 does just fine for that.

Alan

Alan

Wrong again! It is a hell of a service department if it covers 45-50% of the dealership's fixed costs. Most of the fixed costs are in the service dept. With the costs of equipment, warranty write-offs, bad debts charged off, it is a lucky dealership if the service department shows a profit after its share of the rent, salaries, paying techs, etc. Without sales and finance departments, they would not exist, if you took away the work on the dealership's own used cars, about 50% of the business typically, it would be an even more dismal picture. I am in the sales end, and trust me without new and used sales and finance, the service department's paychecks would bounce!

Wow! You say one thing and the people I worked for said another. Gosh, I don't know who to believe anymore. I sure am glad I'm not in Car sales any more too! I never did like it all that much, in fact, I hated every day that I went to work there. The only thing it really taught me was how to buy a car. I'm also glad I don't have to buy a car from you cause you must be making a killing off of the suckers that come into your dealership.

Alan

quote:

It doesn't really matter what kind of warranty Toyota has, you probably won't need to use it.

I have a son that buys used Tacomas, he can't afford a new one. He has had three that hit 200,000 miles. One he sold at 235,000 and the teenager that bought it is still driving it.
All had the 22R 4 cylinder. Most expensive repair, new starter. They just amaze me but like I said, in a head on with an antelope, you lose! I had a 2003 and hit a button buck muley at night, $7500 damage, and I had to walk to get help.

Alan

These are not my figures, they are benchmarks for the industry, and their validity is not even debatable. As for making a killing on cars, another benchmark is that the entire dealership is to have a net profit of 3% of the total sales for the dealership. In other words, 12 million in sales should net you $360000. This is a benchmark, which is what you would like to see a dealership do, probably over half are not doing even this. Is this what you would consider making a killing? There is no business more misunderstood than mine. I have made a living from repeat customers, ran the same dealership for 15 years and have salesmen who have been with me for 14 of the 15 years. You would be very comfortable buying a car in my place. After all, how many places could you shop for a car with African antelope on the walls, and plenty of hunting pics to look at? I wasn't trying to attack you personally, I just like to clear up some misconceptions about the business when I can. Whoever you worked for in the business must have had a different outlook than I do if you hated to come to work. It certainly isn't for everyone. I have people who stop by and talk guns, whatever once a week for five years, take up a lot of time, but won't even consider shopping elsewhere since they have become personal friends.

Here's something different:

Ford is family; my oldest son works for Ford and the ONLY pick up truck I would consider is a Ford. In my mind, Ford is the only maker of good pick up trucks. My youngest son has a new F-150 4x4 that is a high class vehicle. If I were to buy a pick up, it would be the exact same truck my youngest son has.
However, I'm not a pickem up truck guy. I have two Toyota 4-Runners that have never, ever, caused me one problem.

Don

Edit to add:
If I were going Diesel, it would be a Cummins. We used Cummins Diesels in my line of work for years and were happy with them. Had a chance to tour the Cummins plant and came away with a good feeling about them, along with the service they provided out company.

quote:

Originally posted by DMB:
Ford is family; my oldest son works for Ford and the ONLY pick up truck I would consider is a Ford. In my mind, Ford is the only maker of good pick up trucks. My youngest son has a new F-150 4x4 that is a high class vehicle. If I were to buy a pick up, it would be the exact same truck my youngest son has.

There's no doubt that the Ford truck hass the best frame, i.e., strongest. There are many things about the F series trucks that are attractive. But, I have several patients, some still active employees, some retired, and not one of them said they'd buy another ford based on reliability. The Batavia plant here in Ohio builds trannys. I have 3 patients that work on the line. There are just too many stories to repeat but they all recommend I look elsewhere.

The gentleman I bought my '02 Tundra from has a son that is an engineer at Ford. As I know it, Ford's concern is quantity, not quality, and cost containment. The engineers have said time and time again that Ford has the capability of producing the very best truck available, even better than Toyota, but the CEOs won't let it happen because of expense. This was not related to me first hand. It is heresay. But is not unreasonable.

By the way, this is exactly what my F150 looked like:

And this is what my next truck will look like: I like the side mirrors and rims better on the top pic.

Doc, the International is too cool, is that a concept??

My next truck will be a Toyota too. I haven't decided what it will be yet but it will be a Toyota. I'm kinda thinking though, that anything that burns gasoline 10 years from now is going to have to burn very little of it, so I'm probably going smaller rather than bigger. All my boys are nearly grown and I find myself going alone more and more. I used to have to have plenty of seats and plenty of cargo. I'll still want 4x4 just because. My T100 has 133,000 on it now and I've got a 95' T100 that I rob parts from. It has 185,000 of the roughest miles any truck would ever want to have put on it. It belonged to #1 son and it got a workout. #2 son asked me the other day if I was concerned about the safety of the parts I was taking off of the "Green" truck. I told him that I was sure there was nothing on that truck that was "About" to break. He nodded and understood what I meant. He has ridden with #1 son before.

Im going to drive that little blue T100 until it becomes cost prohibitive to do so or until it can no longer pull itself or my boat along.

jstevens, I just know what I know man. Most of that has been learned the hard way. When each of my boys asked me what I thought they should be when they grew up, I immediately said, "An Orthodontist". They looked at me funny and asked why. I told them that their orthodontist appointments were made months in advance because the orthodontist was mostly out of town. As near as I could tell the orthodontist walked around and told a harem of assistants which wires to tighten and what color rubber bands to put on kids teeth. And there were pictures of the orthodontist engaged in all sorts of hunting and fishing activities all over his walls. I figured the guy must be doing quite well and I was sure paying him an elk hunt or two to get their damn teeth straight.

I bought my last new car in 1988 and barring winning the lottery it will have been my last. There's too much mark up in new vehicles. I guess I'm "Wrong Again" but oh well I wasn't getting rich buying new cars.

I hated car sales because of the cutthroat, backstabbing attitudes of my fellow salesmen and the obvious disdain that most people had in their eyes when I walked toward them on the lot even though they did not know me.

Today when I go onto a car lot the first thing I tell the salesman is that I know he has to make a living and the best way to make a buck off of me is to answer MY questions, not ask ME questions. The guy at the Toyota dealership already knows what I want. I've bought three vehicles from him in 7 years. He doesn't waste my time or his. He sees me coming, gives me the keys I want and if it's right I buy, if it's not he knows that when it is I will buy. He knows the worst thing he can do is try to SELL me something I don't want. When it comes to price, we don't haggle. He knows what it's worth and I know what it's worth. He knows I don't ask the price unless I'm serious so he gives me THE price he can give. I pay or I walk. It's a wonderful relationship, he makes a living and I don't wonder if he really loves me at the end of it.

In my next life I'M going to be an orthodontist.

Alan

Oh BTW I have an F150 Supercrew, 4x4 Lariat also. I love the way it drives on the highway but it shakes me like a pit bull shaking a rag doll on the ranch roads. #1 son drives a Jeep Wrangler and his wife has a Rav4. #2 son drives an F150 and #3 son has a 1983 Olds Delta 88 Brougham with 33,000 miles on it(he thinks it's great and it is!)

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
Doc, the International is too cool, is that a concept??

Don't think so. Check this out.

Read this.

And read this....it's only about a $90K vehicle.

And

almost forgot

#1 wife drives a Sequoia.

Alan

Doc,
I'd have zero qualms about buying a Toyota truck. Based on my experience with the 4-Runners, you'll be served well with one of Toyota's trucks.
Some time age, there was a thread on an Alaska Hunting forum about pick up trucks. The bottom line was the guys up there favor Toyota trucks over all others.

Don

Here is the Toyota diesel concept rig:

Toyota has got to do something with that hidious front end design. One of the main reasons I was turned away from them, maybe a huge winch bumper would help a tiny bit.

I've been around toyotas all my life, they break just like the rest of them. We all have our favorites, I have favorites due to the overall appearance of the vehicle, it's comforts, and the "useful" options. It's a fact that anything mechanical will break at some point in time. One can say toyota is the best, I can tell you of several that were broken down frequently, one can say ford is best, I can tell you of many that stay in the shop, etc etc etc. Buy what looks the best in your eyes, what has the most conforts, and the options that suit your needs.

Good Luck

Reloader

I like the looks of most all of them. I prefer the appearance of the Dodge and GMC the most, with the F150 and Tundra in close second.

But, there is also the concept that a truck is nothing more than a tool. I think I'm a blend of both appearance and function.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
Here is the Toyota diesel concept rig:

That has got to be the most butt ugly truck I have seen in recent history... More power to Toyota for doing a diesel but they NEED to do something about the looks...

Ken....

quote:

Originally posted by Heat:
That has got to be the most butt ugly truck I have seen in recent history... More power to Toyota for doing a diesel but they NEED to do something about the looks...

Ken....

Awwww, c'mon...probably just the wrong color huh?

I guess that's why there's chocolate and vanilla, I think it looks good! Maybe some running boards (I'm only 5' 11") but one mans junk and all that.....

Doc, read the dope on the International. I like it. Will have to see one of those in person.

Too Much!!

Maybe this is better?