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The whole precision rifle bubble collapses. In the aggregate the firearms industry that is hunting focused is in secular decline. Mike | |||
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Mike: Not sure I would go that far. Gunwerks sold rifles for twice what you could get a great smith to build. You want a precision rifle? Find a rifle builder who focuses on precision rifles and either competes in the discipline you are shooting or is a hunter (if building a hunting rifle). Gunwerks rifles were overpriced and they spent a ton on marketing (own magazine, hunting shows, etc). I won't miss their hunting shows touting 1000 yard shot out of the box (implying no practice necessary), but sad to see them apparently fail. | |||
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If Focus Management Group takes over, the rifle company "might" survive. I hope they do. While they started off as a reasonably priced precision rifle, they quickly spiraled off the deep end. After seeing how many hunts these guys go on every year around the globe, it is not shocking to see that they are in the financial hole they find themselves. I believe they got a little too caught up in their nority and having fun and lost focus on running a profitable business. There is really no reason that the company could not be profitable. Maybe with some adult supervision that can get back on track. There is room in the market for a moderate volume precision rifle manufacturer. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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As Opus1 said, this is not uncommon in business. NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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Remember a few years back when Wells Fargo got caught opening all of those accounts in their client's names without the clients permission or even knowing about it? It's funny to think they're suing someone who in their opinion hasn't followed the letter of the law. Those top bank execs should be in prison right now and Wells Fargo the ones going out of business. Apparently Gunwerks isn't too big to fail, and Wells Fargo was... | |||
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Sounds like the creative destruction part of the economic cycle that happens in capitalism. Zim 2006 Zim 2007 Namibia 2013 Brown Bear Togiak Nat'l Refuge Sep 2010 Argentina 2019 RSA 2023 Tanzania 2024 SCI Life Member USMC | |||
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As chicken shit as wells fargo has been for many years I hope they get stung hard with this deal. Sorry about Gunwerks going down though. George "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
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It does not take much to make an accurate rifle. All one has to have is quality components, and work to close tolerances. Practically every single rifle we have built, from 17 to 460 Weatherby, have shot 1/4" groups using our own Walterhog bullets. But, we only use the best components, and our reamers are made to our own specs. | |||
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Impressive maybe you can build me a left handed 375-404  Mike | |||
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I don’t give two shits for any contemporary made guns. Especially rifles without front sights even on them. When did this heinous trend begin? Plastic stocks are hideous. Stainless is brainless. When you make guns simply for utility you turn off buyers of beauty. And those are the collectors, buying more guns than they’ll ever have need for. Regardless, I wish any supporter of hunting the best of luck. | |||
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It's easy to hate WF, banks are always easy targets, but when a company quits paying payroll and other state taxes it hides a bigger problem in the company. When you are hosting a TV show and hunting all over the world, building a brand new facility and according to one article I read, moving deposits out of WF to other banks so they lose the ability to monitor those funds, you have a gross mismanagement problem and are trying to hide the same. Dishonest in my opinion. Like others here, I hate to see any small business go out of business but you have to wonder if these guys knew the Titanic was sinking and jumped into the lifeboat with the silverware! Any CEO and CFO would have cut expenses to stop the bleeding to try and save the company... one thing is for sure though, the state government will be in line for the money they are owed first, then the bank and then the suppliers. So in an already difficult economy, others are going to be hurt. Sad. On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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Bingo. | |||
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Yep. See my posts under Long Range Shooting discussing the very same issue.  | |||
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I wouldn’t know the first thing about Gunwerks but I work with a lot of banks and I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that WF is the most disloyal that I have dealt with. | |||
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Interesting developments... if the reporter did get it wrong what a disservice to a company's reputation. I guess time will tell... On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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May have been a counterclaim coming. Maybe that, in part, formed the basis for a settlement. However, there might be a lawsuit coming against the reporter and media for claims of defamation, among others. | |||
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Fascinating! Amazing how the world has been programmed to support lawyers! A company borrows money and does not pay it back. They get sued. Lawyers on both sides make money, both the lender and the customer lose money. A reporter reports this. Him and his newspaper get sued. He looses money, lawyers win again! This actually means the break down of normal law and order. There isn’t any anymore. All you have now is a legal system, where everyone is screwed except the lawyers! | |||
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Very true class action suits are the worst. The only ones that get anything worth while are the lawyers | |||
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You are correct. However, remember that what the reporter was quoting was from the lawsuit. All of the supposedly false information started with a phrase like " according to the lawsuit." My guess is that is more to this than meets the eye. | |||
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Yup. I get mailings weekly about some class action lawsuit settlement. The lawyers got millions and I get a coupon for something worth $12. | |||
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I just watched a video by Gunwerks that came out yesterday. Link below I have no dog in the fight, I don't own any of their products. They are not in financial distress, they have an immaculate record of paying their taxes, suppliers and employees. They were banking locally in Wyo with Wells Fargo and had a great relationship, Wells Fargo shut down the commercial loans division in Wyo then consolidated it in Colorado. The "new" management changed the terms on their loans without any negotiating and as Gunwerks was negotiating with them about this they continued making payments per the terms of the deal they had then Wells Fargo filed suit and as usual in order to bolster their claim they "alledged" that they were not paying taxes, suppliers and employees. All unrelated to the Wells Fargo case and unfounded. In my opinion a defamation suit is in order. Gunwerks said that within 5 days of the suit they wrote a check and paid off Wells Fargo. I'm wondering if the increasing firearms business "hate" in Colorado had any influence on this situation. https://youtu.be/7iK7rEOyrZU above is the link. | |||
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I have no idea and certainly don't have any of their guns. The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is saying that WF unilaterally changed the terms of the loan. Think about that for a minute. Makes zero sense. | |||
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Things I don't understand: 1. Gunwerks must have a personal banker; I do, and if I have any issues, that is the person I deal with. 2. I have seen the filing (it is available on another website) and I don't understand why WFC would go to the trouble of filing if this was a simple misunderstanding. If it was, it was badly handled. | |||
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Did you watch the video I linked? it explains it very well. Sounds like the bank mis handled it after they moved the loan to their Colorado headquarters when Gunwerks was accustomed to dealing with their Wyo bankers. | |||
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Hope everyone gets what they have coming. My money is on Davidson. | |||
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I don't have any bias in this either but WF changing operations to CO sounds to me like the personal touch was lost. By that fact, maybe there was a personal relationship that allowed terms or leniency that couldn't be done regionally. There are always three sides to a story, my side, your side and the truth. We are in the process of flushing out the weak/zombie companies that have been propped up by easy credit for far too long. This could be one of them. Zim 2006 Zim 2007 Namibia 2013 Brown Bear Togiak Nat'l Refuge Sep 2010 Argentina 2019 RSA 2023 Tanzania 2024 SCI Life Member USMC | |||
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I don't like his fixation on long range shots (one famous video shows him shooting a sheep in the ass at 880 yards - not impressive), but you have to admire a guy that turned his passion into a business. | |||
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After watching the video, I have more questions. I tend to agree with you. 1- Unilateral changes to loans agreements sound like total BS to me. Let me put this another way, if one had a loan at 4% interest, the bank cannot unilaterally change it to say 5%. That certainly won't fly. 2- I don't buy the timing either. I think he indicated a 5 day window. WF does suck. Even for them, this would be a stretch. | |||
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Just watched it. I am no attorney, but he needed to make this. I also noted he sort of admitted he was a bit cocky in dealing with WFC (my words, not his) and if he could have done things differently, he would have. | |||
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Larry: I can see if the bank suddenly changed the way they value actions as raw material vs inventory. There is no doubt actions are not raw materials. | |||
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Yes I gathered that too, I have to admit as a business owner I am pretty "cocky" about some things too and I know myself pretty well and when someone tells me "how its gonna be" I am likely to get my hackles up and fight, they will have to go over me or around me sorry it is my nature but it is also the very stubbornness that has made me moderately successful at what I do. I don't deal with big banks, all my banking is with a small local credit union because of the big bank attitude and policy. | |||
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I find this interesting. During the riots in Spokane the bus-ed in Antifa group targeted the Wells Fargo bank in down town. A group of armed citizens arrived and protected that portion of town. The protesters got back on their buses and left !! | |||
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