Flippy, I don't get it... First I was "Doubtless" to you, then you recommend I change my moniker to "DOUBTFULL". Why do you feel like you need resort to name calling? It is a rather adolescent trait, I have to say...

I simply pointed out the wishy-washy posting you did. You defend Sierras, but then only use them for varmints and "SOME" of your '06 loads, then state that you use NPs and TSXs in your '06.
Which way is it? If you have that kind of faith in Sierras, why spend the extra money on "premium" projectiles? Are you by some chance afraid of a failure? Sounds like it...

Please don't change your moniker. I think "Flippy" fits you quite well!

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
Flippy, I don't get it... First I was "Doubtless" to you, then you recommend I change my moniker to "DOUBTFULL". Why do you feel like you need resort to name calling? It is a rather adolescent trait, I have to say...

I simply pointed out the wishy-washy posting you did. You defend Sierras, but then only use them for varmints and "SOME" of your '06 loads, then state that you use NPs and TSXs in your '06.
Which way is it? If you have that kind of faith in Sierras, why spend the extra money on "premium" projectiles? Are you by some chance afraid of a failure? Sounds like it...

Please don't change your moniker. I think "Flippy" fits you quite well!

Actually "doubtless" was a typo. I thought that was your moniker.
Doubtfull was not a typo it was a suggestion based on your posts. Sorry you feel the way you do about the "adolescent" name calling, everybody is entitled to their opinion, even you.

And just to help you out and clarify my position, I will repost my response.

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:
I use Sierra’s for coyotes, varmints and deer sized game, depending on the cartridge I am loading, .223, 30-30, 300SAV, and some 30-’06 loads. For my 270, 30-’06 and .338 I use NP’s and TSX’s.

Maybe I should have stated I use TSX’s and NP’s for deer-sized game and above when varmint-like accuracy is NOT needed. Around here, shots at game are seldom over 150 yards anyway. If I go over east, that changes things a bit , and shots can stretch to 250+

I use Sierra’s in cartridges that DO NOT push them past their design parameters, for animals of reasonable size for the bullet weight and when a shot that is 4†off could miss, e.g. sage rats, rock chucks, etc.

I can not continue to explain my position to somebody who does not have the courtesy to read the posts…

Wildbore,

Maybe your right! Ive not tried the Sierra HP GK's. Maybe I wont.

Or may be YOU are right! After all, since 70-80% of the opinions are unfavorable to Sierra bullets, I am thinking to choose another brand.....

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:
I use Sierra’s for coyotes, varmints and deer sized game, depending on the cartridge I am loading, .223, 30-30, 300SAV, and some 30-’06 loads. For my 270, 30-’06 and .338 I use NP’s and TSX’s.

Maybe I should have stated I use TSX’s and NP’s for deer-sized game and above when varmint-like accuracy is NOT needed. Around here, shots at game are seldom over 150 yards anyway. If I go over east, that changes things a bit , and shots can stretch to 250+

I use Sierra’s in cartridges that DO NOT push them past their design parameters, for animals of reasonable size for the bullet weight and when a shot that is 4†off could miss, e.g. sage rats, rock chucks, etc.

So: is a 150# whitetail (or blacktail, since you live in Oregon) worth a 150-grain Sierra, since you are so concerned about "reasonable size for the bullet weight"?

And "continue" to explain your position? Why, S#%&!!! You haven't adequately explained it the first time! I quit... There is nothing so frustrating as doublespeak. And you have mastered it...

I've been a fan of Sierra bullets for nearly three decades now. IMO they are very accurate bullets and pretty decent hunting bullets at moderate velocities. I shot several elk using their 200gr Gamekings from a .300 mag at 3048 fps with the bullets failing to exit on every shot under roughly 300 yards. Yes, the elk were dead, but I sure wouldn't want to use that bullet if were a difficult angle or had to break any significant bone. They ruin a lot of meat too. I now use only bonded or partition type bullets from my magnums. I do still load the Sierras for my daughters 7-08 and they have worked well on 4 elk and 3 deer the past four years.

Originally posted by Flippy:
I use Sierra’s for coyotes, varmints and deer sized game, depending on the cartridge I am loading, .223, 30-30, 300SAV, and some 30-’06 loads.
For my 270, 30-’06 and .338 I use NP’s and TSX’s.

Well at least you have enough sense not to use tinfoil Sierra bullets on real game. As to your smart ass comment on spell check, no I don't use it, as grammatical competence is not a prerequisite to post here (and even the most illiterate here can see that my mistake was the proximity of the "f" to the "d" on the keyboard, so your obvious attempt to embarrass was pretty transparent and I might add sophomoric)

And as far as that goes, you need to revisit your grammatical competence. Your use of the apostrophe to signify the plural is wrong as in Sierra's, TSXs, NP's etc. It should be Sierras, TSXs,and NPs respectively. The apostrophe signifies the possesive case and not the plural. Have a nice day, "Flippy." jorge

I've used the Sierra 165 gr. HPBT on over a dozen big game animals, and in my opinion it's, as Jorge stated a "tin foil", paper-punchers projectile, and not a hunting bullet. It wasn't designed to serve as hunting bullet, and it's NOT a hunting bullet. It's good for running up scores in target competition, and it's good for maybe varmints in open, unsettled country, but it's a lousy, unpredicatable, volatile big game bullet, and I'll never hunt with it again. There's no good reason to, and plenty of reasons NOT to.

I've had them perform perfectly on some animals, get inside, expand, exit, and put the animal down on the ground quickly without fuss.

I've also had them penetrate just a few inches and not expand at all, requiring a second shot.

I've also had them get inside and blow up violently and ruin capes.

There's no predicting how they'll work under a given set of conditions. Maybe on smallish whitetails fired under controlled conditions, but not for general hunting.

And especially not when you can get most good rifles to shoot quality big game bullets such as the Nosler Partition with sub-MOA groups.

If I had the choice of a load featuring Sierra 165 HPBT bullets and 1/2" groups or a load featuring 165 gr. Nosler Partitions and 1" groups for ANY sort of big game hunting, I'd take the 1" Nosler load and run..............

AD

Allen, you don't say whether you are talking about the Gameking or Matchking, they are very different. We have been discussing the Gameking which IS designed for big game.

Allen
I would like a little clarification on which bullet you are talking about. When you say a "tin foil paper punching bullet are you refering to the 168 gr HPBT Matchking?
If so I agree, having shot a turkey, coyote and 2 pigs with this bullet.
However I think the bullet the thread was refering to is the 165 HPBT Gameking. Which is a different bullet entirely. I have taken several dizen animals with this bullet in a 308 with excellent results. Sierra says the 165 HPBT Gameking is even more stoutly constructed than their 165 SPZ.
Like you for game larger than deer sized I like a premium bullet.

Wildboar,

I dont think you have to change your bullet of choice due to what happened failures happen to every bullet. If you really feel inclined too then that is your decision alone. I know that I am one of the minority on this subject but I feel that this bullet is totally adequate for the game you pursue.

Aloha!!

What a crew1 I have used the 85 grain HPBT from my 6mm Remington on a bunch of deer and several antelope. A quick killer for sure but I don't get an exit hole all the time. Some of you guys are wound a bit too tight over exit holes. I actually prefer this bullet to any I have tried in 6mm including the nosler partition.

I don't think that all Gamekings are created equal. Certain calibers of the Gameking bullet are thicker constructed either due to intended game and/or magnum velocities. Even w/in the same caliber, certain weights are built w/ either thicker construction or thinner construction depending on Sierra's intended use for that bullet.

The conclusion I've made on the specific Gameking in this discussion is that it is too lightly constructed for my needs on medium to heavy whitetail deer when shot in the 2600-2700fps or faster at the distances I normally shoot. Sierra engineered this bullet to perform its best at mv of 2600-3200fps at distances of 150-500yards. It is a long range hunting bullet that is stretched too thin when it strikes bone or it's used on the bigger deer at close range.

The 180 and 200 Gamekings are slightly better constructed, but the 150,180 and 220 Pro-Hunters are better suited in .30 caliber if Sierra is used.

Gary

N E 450 No. 2, yes I'm talking about the Matchkings.

Actually, I've had 130 gr. Game Kings work beautifully on mule deer as well as blow up on mule deer, so I'm not real enthusiastic about those either. After the last blow-up, I went to 130 gr. Nosler Partitions and later, 140 gr. Hornady's and have never looked back........

AD

FWIW, the failures in the 7.65 Arg. Mauser I related several posts back happened with 150-grain Pro Hunters....

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:
I use Sierra’s for coyotes, varmints and deer sized game, depending on the cartridge I am loading, .223, 30-30, 300SAV, and some 30-’06 loads. For my 270, 30-’06 and .338 I use NP’s and TSX’s.

Maybe I should have stated I use TSX’s and NP’s for deer-sized game and above when varmint-like accuracy is NOT needed. Around here, shots at game are seldom over 150 yards anyway. If I go over east, that changes things a bit , and shots can stretch to 250+

I use Sierra’s in cartridges that DO NOT push them past their design parameters, for animals of reasonable size for the bullet weight and when a shot that is 4†off could miss, e.g. sage rats, rock chucks, etc.

So: is a 150# whitetail (or blacktail, since you live in Oregon) worth a 150-grain Sierra, since you are so concerned about "reasonable size for the bullet weight"?

And "continue" to explain your position? Why, S#%&!!! You haven't adequately explained it the first time! I quit... There is nothing so frustrating as doublespeak. And you have mastered it...

As I said, and as other people have stated,
I HAVE NEVER LOST AN ANIMAL BECAUSE OF BULLET FAILURE, SIERRA OR OTHERWISE.

PERIOD.

Is that clear enough for you?

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Originally posted by Flippy:
I use Sierra’s for coyotes, varmints and deer sized game, depending on the cartridge I am loading, .223, 30-30, 300SAV, and some 30-’06 loads.
For my 270, 30-’06 and .338 I use NP’s and TSX’s.

Well at least you have enough sense not to use tinfoil Sierra bullets on real game. As to your smart ass comment on spell check, no I don't use it, as grammatical competence is not a prerequisite to post here (and even the most illiterate here can see that my mistake was the proximity of the "f" to the "d" on the keyboard, so your obvious attempt to embarrass was pretty transparent and I might add sophomoric)

And as far as that goes, you need to revisit your grammatical competence. Your use of the apostrophe to signify the plural is wrong as in Sierra's, TSXs, NP's etc.
It should be Sierras, TSXs,and NPs respectively. The apostrophe signifies the possesive case and not the plural. Have a nice day, "Flippy." jorge

When trying to correct someone, you should be careful not to make mistakes, besides jorge, I took enough English to know singular/plural possessive.

Sierras is correct in some cases, so is Sierra’s. Depending on if you are talking about Sierra’s bullets or many different Sierra bullets, “Sierras.â€

TSX’s, NP’s is how most people post. When responding to your posts from now on, I will TRY to remember to accommodate you, so you don’t get confused or pissed off…

I’m glad that you jorge are the authority on good sense. I have used many Sierra bullets on big game, (see post YOU quoted) and have NEVER lost an animal from a bullet failure.
Maybe I’m a better shot? Maybe I get closer?
According to you it was LUCK. I know better…

As for “sophomoric†I believe YOU started the “name calling.†Right?

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
"flippy's" being flippant…jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
…there's room in this world for the foolharfy also. jorge

Getting on a really great reloading forum; FREE.
Getting some “trophy hunter†all tweaked out about something you said; FREE.
Having him try to “slam you†about your opinion and then misspelling foolhardy; PRICELESS!

quote:

As for “sophomoric†I believe YOU started the “name calling.†Right?

Anyone who has taken as much English as you claim to have taken should be able to recognize that the word "sophomoric" is an adjective, not a noun...
And no, Flippy. You started the name calling. Read back a few posts...

Flippy: If your knowledge of bullets is as in-depth as your grammar, well, I think the post above mine about covers it. Further, you STILL don't have a clue as in your statement:"Sierras is correct in some cases, so is Sierra’s. Depending on if you are talking about Sierra’s bullets or many different Sierra bullets, “Sierras.â€. EXACTLY. The apostrophe is used to signify the possesive case and not the plural. And just becasue you say it is "accepted practice" to use the apostrophe to demonstrate the plural is no more correct than the "accepted practice" in some circles to substitute the word "ax" for "ask."

Come back to us when you freshen up on your jr. high school english and your expertise on bullet technology. If you're going to engage in a battle of wits, you'd best come better armed next time. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Flippy: If your knowledge of bullets is as in-depth as your grammar, well, I think the post above mine about covers it. Further, you STILL don't have a clue as in your statement:"Sierras is correct in some cases, so is Sierra’s. Depending on if you are talking about Sierra’s bullets or many different Sierra bullets, “Sierras.â€. EXACTLY. The apostrophe is used to signify the possesive case and not the plural.

Come back to us when you freshen up on your jr. high school english and your expertise on bullet technology. If you're going to engage in a battle of wits, you'd best come better armed next time. jorge

Yet more sophomoric insults.

Now YOU ARE AN EXPERT?

I love it when people stoop to insults, it only bolsters their credibility and opinion!
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

What no retort to Doubles' post? Guess that one struck nerve. Funny how the truth works, just because you ignore it, it doesn't go away, just like Sierra bullets and their erratic performance on game. How's that for getting back on topic. Let's leave "flippy" alone lest he continue to wow us with his rapier-like wit. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
What no retort to Doubles' post? Guess that one struck nerve. Funny how the truth works, just because you ignore it, it doesn't go away, just like Sierra bullets and their erratic performance on game. How's that for getting back on topic. Let's leave "flippy" alone lest he continue to wow us with his rapier-like wit. jorge

No jorge, like Doubless stated HE QUIT.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
…And "continue" to explain your position? Why, S#%&!!!
You haven't adequately explained it the first time!
I quit...
There is nothing so frustrating as doublespeak. And you have mastered it...

Wrong, there is nothing so frustrating as a man who goes back on his word…

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
I quit...

Hmmmmm?

The .300 Win Mag isn't the best Deer caliber around..I know,Thats what I use but I also hunt Elk on the same hunt.I have had terrible luck with Elk bullets out of the .300 on Deer....They die butttt.....

Jayco

If it were possible to do a search on this forum for the most pedantic members with troll-like defects, the use of poor grammar, one finds the EXCESSIVE use of the "quote" function to be a common thread, and of course a total lack of comprehension of the facts at hand. jorge

Actually, jorge, the quote function is considered "proper etiquette" when using previously posted comments. It keeps people from having to scroll back and forth.

Sorry.

Jaycocreek, and to others who may be interested, Jorge, Flippy, etc.,



I have a bullet question for all of you guys.

My brother, my friend, Les, and I are all going to WY for antelope. We plan on hunting a specific piece of property where the rancher is allowing us to use muzzleloaders (I found a honey hole), but unit 32 is huge, so we'll obviously be taking our rifles as well. Les shoots a 300 WinMag, using Remington Safari 200 grain A-frames which shoot very well in his rifle. I certainly wouldn't encourage him to use another load but I've seen a few whitetail bucks he's taken with the same round at less than 200 yards and the deer simply run a very long way. Sure, they die and we recover them, but in some of the areas we'll be, we do not want to be traveling down into to recover an antelope. Obviously I think the A-frame is an outstanding bullet but I also think it is too good of a bullet for the antelope.

My brother and I are taking 270's with the new 110 TSX.

What do any of you think I should do, if anything? Personally I don't think we have a lot of time to work up another load for him but my gut tells me that he should be shooting a softer bullet.

What do you do in a situation like this? He's very confident with the load. Should we just leave it alone?

If all goes as planned, it will be a mute point. We'll go to the muzzleloader only region and tag out opening day.

Doc
I have killed quite a few antelope with a 308, 7mm mag and a 300 WBY mag. I agree the 200 gr Swift is not the optimal bullet.
A lot of antelope are shot in the 300 to 350 yard range. I used 165 gr Ballistic tips in my 300 and they worked fine. It takes a big antelope to weigh 100 lbs. In my 300m win mag Remington factory 180 Ballistic Tips shoot within 1 MOA of the factory 200 grain Swift a Frames. If he has time to go to the range a more "fragile" bullet would be better, but as long as the Swift hits in the vital area he will bag his speed goat.
I and several members of my extended family really liked antelope meat.
My wife and I would shoot one buck each, she would shoot one doe and I always shot 2 does.
When we got home the "kin folk" would be waiting on the porch for their share of the meat.

Well, Les certainly has time to try something else, but he's stubborn.

Thank you for the reply.

Doc: My thoughts closely echo those of 450s, the 200gr Swift is way too much bullet for those tiny antelope as are the TSXs unless impact velocity is say, higher than 2800 fps. As you know antelope are rather frail and light boned so I would split the difference and either go with Hornady Interlocks. jorge

Doc-The 200 Swift A-frame is way to much bullet for Antelope in my opinion.I shot a nice 3-point Mulie with a 200 grain Nosler while Elk hunting and it was a pass through with little if any expantion.Dead but way down the hill.

If I were using the 300 for antelope,maybe a 150/165 with a very soft nose.I like the 270 idea better. A friend uses a 25-06 with Noslers and loves them on Antelope but hates the balistic tips.As he said-You don't need premium ammo for Antelope.

Good luck on your hunt and try to persuade your buddy to "Lighten Up" on his 300 Ammo.

Jayco

In my opinion, you don't need a 200 gr. bullet for ANYTHING you'd hunt with a 300 magnum. If you select a premium bullet, 180 grs. is optimal, and I've used premium 180s on everything from pronghorn to elk, moose, and bears, plus all sizes of African plainsgame from dik dik thry eland, plus lion and even Cape buffalo in a pinch. Most bullets have gone clear through, with only a 13% recovery rate.

AD

Les does not reload his ammo. He welcomes the idea but he's like many other shooters, a "one gun, one bullet" guy.

I must say, I'm impressed with the tiny groups he achieves with this factory ammo. Les took 3 deer in Kansas with this setup while we hunted together in 2002, but, as I mentioned, his buck ran off quite some distance and sure enough, made it's way into a fairly deep creek. It was retrieved using our safety belts looped over the headgear (Straight drop off, and about 5 foot deep COLD water).

If I had my way, he'd shoot a 165 Hornady interlokt boat tail or similar bullet. Even a partition is softer on the nose than the AFrame.

I'll email him the suggestions. We'll see what happens.

Doc,

He's loaded for bear for sure. But as long as he places the shot well I wouldnt be too concerned.

As far as the Sierras go, my personal opinion is that BT's have made most of them obsolete since they easily equal the accuracy obtainable by Sierra GK's. There is much room for debate however reguarding their performance vs. Personally I feel that a slightly larger BT will perform just as well as a GK and will always best its accuracy.

I still have quite a few boxes of GK's and wont hesitate to use them, but most of them will gradually be replaced with accubonds. Its just a better bullet.

Thats my .02c. and its probably worth what you paid for it.

I did send out an email to Les. I suppose he won't read it till tomorrow.

I'd be happy to load stuff up for him but we're both very busy and he's in Columbus while I'm in Cincinnati.

i called sierra after my 140 sp gk blew up on a mule deer i shot with my 270 at 176 yds ( lasered) . broadside shot just behind the shoulder; exit wound good, but pieces of copper jacket inside the exit wound. sierra recommended the hp version, as it had a tougher/thicker jacket........think i will switch to hornady or nosler.............

quote:

Originally posted by chazgreen:
i called sierra after my 140 sp gk blew up on a mule deer i shot with my 270 at 176 yds ( lasered) . broadside shot just behind the shoulder; exit wound good, but pieces of copper jacket inside the exit wound. sierra recommended the hp version, as it had a tougher/thicker jacket........think i will switch to hornady or nosler.............

You might give the Barnes 130 gr. TSX a try. My son usd this last year to take his Elk at just over 200 yards using his .270 Win. Shot took out a rib entering and exiting taking out both the heart and lungs along the way. With the Barnes TSX you'll get greater penetration using a lighter weight bullet making for a flatter shooting combination. Try a box and see for yourself. Lawdog