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Hi, this is the photo of the roe buck that I shot yesterday with my Tikka 300 WM . As you can see, the impact is well placed (maybe a little high) but I'm not a fist class sniper and the distance was about 195 Yards; it was broadside. The bullet entered the shoulder and exploded against the spine; the opposite shoulder is almost intact with no exit hole. I reload these cartridges with Lapua cases (excellent), CCI mag primers, 71 grs. of Vithavouri N160, and Sierra 165 HPBT (not Machking!); V/0 is 2950 fps. I think it's a failure since HPBT is cosidered thougher than ordinary Sierra spitzer bullets, but it was not be able to pass through a thin critter like this; I will keep on use it, since it's VERY accurate in my rifle, and here we don't have big animals here, otherwise I would not hesitate to choose something better.

There are some here that like the Sierra HPBT bullets, and indeed, they are usually quite accurate. My experience in game is such that I no longer load them for other than varmint and such. Call my history with them unusual if you like, but I've yet to find satisfactory terminal performance with them, either doing as yours did, or failing to open up at all.

Nice animal. It is dead, right?

I never really cared how the bullet looked, or its perceived "performance" as long as the animal died and died quickly.

You did not say how far you had to track it, my guess is not very far...

I often have similar results with the sierra 300 gr .458 pro hunter HPFN....it loses it's core most of the time if it hits a bit of bone.

Flippy, I agree with you, the animal is DEAD, and it fell like struck by a lightning. I also said that I will keep on use HPBTs as they are really accurate, so I'm not unsatisfied, simply I would say that I would not use them on big animals like elk or moose. I could not find any serious residue of the bullet inside the thorax, only very small crumbs of lead and jacket

By the way, I can see your avatar; isn't it a solid bullet? Is it a Barnes?

quote:

Originally posted by wildboar:
By the way, I can see your avatar; isn't it a solid bullet? Is it a Barnes?

Yes, yes it is...

quote:

I could not find any serious residue of the bullet inside the thorax, only very small crumbs of lead and jacket

This is precisely why I don't use them. It's not that the animal was not killed, it has to do with this kind of performance which destroys a LOT of meat, or the alternative which is an animal you don't recover. Inconsistant terminal performance is just another box of chocolate.

The title of your post about covers the subject at hand. The bullet failed. Yes that small deer died, but just consider if the shot had beena little lower and struck the shoulder blade or the animal a little bigger and tougher and you might have had trouble on your hands. If you like those "tinfoil" Sierra bullets that's ok by me but I'll never use them espcially when there are other much better products out there. jorge

Wild Bore
At what point in the animals death did the bullet fail? The deer is grave yard dead.
How far did the deer walk after impact?
It is hard to beleve bullet failed when the deer
is dead at your feet. I have killed over 200 deer with Sierra Game King in 30/06 & .270 Win.
with no failures as discribed. I have missed a few. But if I did my part ( Bullet Placement) the Game King Worked just fine.
My .5 cents worth.
THE SIERRAS GAME IS A VERY GOOD, ACCURATE & DEADLY BULLET.

Elmer, that is the most tired, stale line used in the hunting fraternity. The animal died, the bullet's performance was suspect to say the least. Like jorge said, given slightly, very slightly diff. circumstances, that bullet could have been responsible for a very nasty wound on a larger animal, say 1/4ing to . Why people continuously want to hunt w/ marginal bullets is beyond me. A 200yd shot does not require 1/4moa accuracy but a bullet that holds together & does it's job from any reasonable angle for the game intended, especially from a .330mag. At least wildboar seems to have seen the error of his ways.

Wildboar
I have shot a lot of game with the 165HPBT Sierra in a 308 Winchester, from point blank to 550 yards. It is one of my favorite bullets. However when I use a 300 mag, I step up to the 180 Nosler Partition. It does not matter if it is a whitetail doe, a black bear, or an elk. Close or far, the 180 NP in the 300 Mag will do the job.

Well I'm using the same GK HP bullet (which is indeed harder than the GK SP version). I regularly shoot Roe with the .300 Win (both 165 SP and HP, backed by N160/73.5 + CCI 250 at a chrono vel. of 3179 ft" from my Blaser 25" bbl.) and never had a blowup. As a matter of fact, the only bullets I ever recovered were 2 GK SP (see below) :


L : 160 GK from a 7x64 at Muntjac, frontal shot at 80 m, bullet recovered from opposing ham, 181% expansion, 48% retained weight ;
R : 165 GK from .300 Win at Red Stag, frontal shot at 250 m, bullet recovered from pouch in hide on opposing flank, 204% expansion, 78% retained weight.

WildBoar,

Congratulations, nice Roe Buck!

I'm sorry to hear about your bullet performance issue with the Sierra 165 HPBT GK. I've used this bullet for many years in the .308 Win., .30/06 Sprg., .300 Win.Mag & .300 Weatherby Mag. as my "standard" light-game bullet and have alawys had fantastic accuracy and solid terminal performance on Roe Deer, Fallow Deer, Red Stags, Whitetail Deer and even the occaisional Wild Boar who happened to wander by.

While interesting to note I don't think that one failure makes relevant statistical impact on the countless number of animals successfully (read: uneventfully) harvested with this bullet. I also use premium bullets in the same calibers noted above with great success but don't perceive a requirement to use them in all of my hunting, shooting and target sessions.

Thanks Gerry, the buck is not bad indeed ! I agree with you, Sierra 165g. HPBTs give GREAT accuracy. I could obtain several 3 shot groups of 4 cm. at 200 m. that is excellent for me, since I am an average shooter; as I said before, I will keep on use these bullets, since here we don't have any big animal, and for roe deers, chamois, and boars, I believe they are plenty adequate

To fail to penetrate a broadside roe spine is very very bad indeed. I've square hit spines in the neck and obtained exits on roe with 22cal 50gr hornady SP and 6mm 70gr hornady SP the latter this morning at a MV of 3,500fsp and a range of 30yards (impact velocity 3,450fps or so)

Was there some angle involved, if so the amount of spine that has to be penetrated rises greatly.

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
...Was there some angle involved, if so the amount of spine that has to be penetrated rises greatly.

As I said in my first post, the buck was broadside, and I shot it slightly uphill. I agree with you; failing to penetrate a roe spine is not a good performance for a bullet that should be tougher than "ordinary" Sierra bullets. Moreover V/0 was not high, and at the impact, it was "only" 2480 fps +/-.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
The title of your post about covers the subject at hand. The bullet failed.
Yes that small deer died, but just consider IF the shot had been a little lower and struck the shoulder blade or the animal a little bigger and tougher and you MIGHT have had trouble on your hands. If you like those "tinfoil" Sierra bullets that's ok by me but I'll never use them especially when there are other much better products out there. jorge

IF, the small word with a big meaning.
MIGHT means “maybe.â€

Jorge, I agree about there being "better" products in the marketplace (see Avatar above).

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
Elmer, that is the most tired, stale line used in the hunting fraternity.
The animal died, the bullet's performance was suspect to say the least.
Like jorge said, given slightly, very slightly diff. circumstances, that bullet could have been responsible for a very nasty wound on a larger animal, say 1/4ing to.
Why people continuously want to hunt w/ marginal bullets is beyond me.
A 200yd shot does not require 1/4moa accuracy but a bullet that holds together & does its job from any reasonable angle for the game intended, especially from a .330mag. At least wildboar seems to have seen the error of his ways.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda...
Yada, yada, yada...
And no matter how tired or stale the old line is:
“There are all kinds of wounded, only ONE kind of dead†still applies…
That deer died.

quote:

Originally posted by wildboar:
...it fell like struck by a lightning.

However, with soooo many variables, there is no ONE bullet that does everything.
Otherwise there would be only one bullet company offering one “magic†bullet.

I would rather use a bullet I have confidence that I can put it where I need to, than a bullet that I am not confident in my ability to control its placement.
It doesn’t matter how well I can shoot if I’m limited by crappy accuracy.
Even if the bullet is made out of “tinfoil†as jorge said.

quote:

Originally posted by Andre Mertens:
Well I'm using the same GK HP bullet (which is indeed harder than the GK SP version). I regularly shoot Roe with the .300 Win (both 165 SP and HP, backed by N160/73.5 + CCI 250 at a chrono vel. of 3179 ft" from my Blaser 25" bbl.) and never had a blowup.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:
…I've used this bullet for many years in the .308 Win., .30/06 Sprg., .300 Win.Mag & .300 Weatherby Mag. as my "standard" light-game bullet and have always had fantastic accuracy and solid terminal performance on Roe Deer, Fallow Deer, Red Stags, Whitetail Deer and even the occasional Wild Boar who happened to wander by.

While interesting to note I don't think that one failure makes relevant statistical impact on the countless number of animals successfully (read: uneventfully) harvested with this bullet.
I also use premium bullets in the same calibers noted above with great success but don't perceive a requirement to use them in all of my hunting, shooting and target sessions.

Hmmmm?

You are right Flippy, but i hate it when luck has a large part in whether mu game goes down or runs off wounded inspite of good shooting. Everyone is free to hunt w/ bullets of their choice, I just don't get it. I have yet always been able to get the NP to shoot from any rifle I own, so I see no need to shoot lesser bullets, JMO.

"flippy's" being flippant and I don't think anybody's going to change his mind. So Flippy, IF I use a Siera Game king out of a 300 Weatherby and IF I hit a bull eland on the shoulder at say 100 yards, are you saying that "maybe" the Sierra will work? You are right, "maybe" is too big a word when a 1K trophy fee hangs in the balance. Personally, I rahter go witht he word "will" as in if I were to use a Swift A Frame or a Barnes and hit the eland in the same place the bullet WILL work. You go right ahead and keep using those frangible bullets, never mind the facts. jorge

Hold on Boys,
Lets look at why the bullet in question failed.
Could it be that it was pushed a a velocity too great for its design? I will refer you to the other thread on this forun about termenal ballistics. As I read it a great part of the problems with "cored " bullets is the speed they are pushed. I humbley thnk this Bullet was above its performance envelope. I agree that for this shoter a differant bullet would work better if he wants to sling lead that fast.

When I was coming up there was a lot of surplus 30 cal ball amunition around. It was almost free. At the time we were told not to use it for hunting because it would "go right through" and we would lose the animal. We looked for a good expantion that stayed inside of the animal, i. e. no exit wound. I know, I know, differant times. Some shooters tried cutting the point off the bullet, but that was not safe.
I think that we as reloaders need to look carefully at the bullets we are using and be sure they are in their design package.
Judge Sharpe

quote:

Originally posted by DigitalDan:
There are some here that like the Sierra HPBT bullets, and indeed, they are usually quite accurate. My experience in game is such that I no longer load them for other than varmint and such. Call my history with them unusual if you like, but I've yet to find satisfactory terminal performance with them, either doing as yours did, or failing to open up at all.

You're not alone. <y experience runs about like yours. Gave up on them a number of years ago. Just too many failures. Lawdog

I've used that bullet off and on for a lot of years. Mainly out of 06's and 300 Wby's.

I've found they work just fine, I've used them on deer/lopes/elk. I've yet to of had an issue with them. I've seen quite a few critters hit the old tera firma after taking one of these. (I do wish they had a bit higher BC picky picky I know)

Sounds like my experience is a fair different than most. Also an outfitter friend of mine from the Rocky Mtn front has used this bullet for years on elk (out of 308's and 06's) and it is his bullet of his preference. Interesting eh!?

One thing that I've found over the years is that if one uses a bullet long enough it will sooner or reason give one a reason to doubt it.

I'd suggest you go and shoot about 10 more of those lil critters and then see what you think.

Not trying to change anyone's mind jsut giving my 2 cents..

Good day gang

MD

the 160 HPBT has been doing quite well for me in my 7 Mashburn Super for a long time. Chucks to elk it works just fine.

I think I have said this before on this website, but here goes again...
I hunted with Sierras yaars back, and loaded them for my father as well, in an 1891 7.65 Argentine Mauser. Dad always shot "engine room", but he lost a small hill country buck one December, at a distance of about 60 yards. Knocked the animal down and he managed to get his feet up under him. He went off thru the brush, plowing with his back legs, front end broken down, and we never found him... No exit, and no blood.
The following year he handed me the jacket from another 150-grain Sierra that he found in the front shoulder of a doe he took. That jacket was on the entrance side. Two cup and core separations was enough. I started loading Speers...
I told a friend of mine about the two instances. He went to the SHOT show in Vegas a few years later, and talked to Sierra. He was told that Sierra bullets have thin jackets and are not designed to be pushed at >3000 fps.
The words "thin jacket" mean everything... IF the jacket is not thick enough to withstand the work hardening that takes place once it starts peeling back, it is going to separate, and with the cores not being bonded to the jacket, failure is imminent...
One other thing: do a search for a Handloader article on bullet failures, written about three years back. It shows Sierra as being the bullet that came apart the most often... I have the mag around here somewhere. If I can find the display chart and figure out how to post it, I will.

However, Doubtless, the material they use for jackets is from what I have read, the hardest material in the industry.

Wildboar,

Nice buck! I am in the same boat as Gerry who posted earlier and feel the same way he does about the bullet as it also is my standard bullet that I use in all of my 30 cal rifles including a couple that push it beyond 3,000++ fps and they do what I want them too.

Aloha Jorge,

I know you never would use it But just thought I'D answer your question due to the fact as I had done it, it'll work on eland from a 300 WBY and 30-378 because we done it and I believe it was closer than 100 yds and my cousin had taken one with his 30-416 and in each case the Eland dropped where it stood, when the animals were dressed their vitals were liquified . Just my limited experience as thats only 3 animals.

Aloha and Happy Huntin'!!!

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
"flippy's" being flippant and I don't think anybody's going to change his mind. So Flippy, IF I use a Siera Game king out of a 300 Weatherby and IF I hit a bull eland on the shoulder at say 100 yards, are you saying that "maybe" the Sierra will work? You are right, "maybe" is too big a word when a 1K trophy fee hangs in the balance. Personally, I rahter go witht he word "will" as in if I were to use a Swift A Frame or a Barnes and hit the eland in the same place the bullet WILL work. You go right ahead and keep using those frangible bullets, never mind the facts. jorge

Its all coming together, jorge is a TROPHY HUNTER…
I’m not being flippant, jorge, I’m using common sense.

MIGHT (MAYBE) and IF were YOUR words, not mine, remember?
No? Let me refresh your memory.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
…but just consider if the shot had been a little lower and struck the shoulder blade or the animal a little bigger and tougher and you might have had trouble on your hands…

IF, AND, OR, AND, MIGHT…
What if?...
Shoulda, coulda, woulda…

How about this jorge:
if Wildboar had used a less accurate bullet and missed the deer entirely or just hit it in the leg, and it ran off, we might not be second guessing his choice of bullet and the supposed bullet failure?

Shoulda, coulda, woulda…

Sorry to burst your bubble jorge, I use Barnes TSX bullets and NP for big game.
Too many people use Sierra bullets without having issues to claim they don’t work.

Just read the other posts, and look at the PICTURES…

Trophy hunter? Isn't everybody?? Oh don't tell me, I'm one of those evil guys that just hunts for the fun and challenge of it and don't use the "oh, I feed my family" justification. In my book any excuse to hunt is a good one, So tell me, why then do you use Barnes and Partitions and not Sierras? No bubble busted here, there's room in this world for the foolharfy also. jorge

After fifty years of hunting, this tendency of people to load bullets with at least SOME questions hanging over them, puzzles me badly.

When I pick a hunting bullet, I pick it for the WORST POSSIBLE situation I can envision. Wounded critter, stern presentation, heavy brush, you all know those possibilities.

Yes, the Sierras will kill animals, and I've used them for the chore on caribou and moose. However, that was several decades back, before I witnessed the Nosler Partition at work. Since those long-ago days, the Nosler Partition has been joined by many new "premium" designs, virtually ALL of which are superior to the Sierras and Hornadys in their ability to STAY TOGETHER under the worst of impacts. That cohesiveness is what makes them different, and it is also why I choose them.

They may not be quite as accurate as some Sierras in some rifles, but that doesn't mean a single damned thing to me. Given a choice for caribou, say, between Partitions grouping in 2" at 100 yards, and Sierras grouping in 1/2" at the same distance, the Partition wins every time. That's now a moot point in many cases....my Savage .338 groups three of the Barnes 225 TSX in 1/2" at 100 yards...I won't miss much sleep about "losing accuracy with a premium bullet"!

100 Sierra 165 Gamekings cost $17.00. FIFTY Barnes 168 TSX cost $29.00. Seventeen cents versus fifty-eight cents. Considering that the fifty TSXs will last for many seasons if one practices with Sierras, that amount of money is ludicrously cheap.

Even for local hunting trips, the cost of bullets is the SMALLEST part of our expenses, and it is the MOST IMPORTANT, because the merciful death of the animal is (or should be) the hunter's highest priority.

Yes, the technology of eighty years ago still kills animals. However, since my personal desire is to kill as quickly, cleanly and reliably as possible, premiums are loaded in my hunting ammunition. I won't have it any other way.

Wild Boar is correct.
The bullet failed. Period.
How many of those "Where did the bullet fail since the animal is dead" philosophers realize that a roe deer goes around 50 lbs ? Still think the bullet did not fail?

My conclusion is the same as it ever was, soft fast expanding bullets, especially from Magnum class rifles on shoulder shots are a bad mix.

You matched the bullet to the game, but YOU failed to match it with the chambering and with your shot placement. Why would you shoulder shoot a little deer like that anyway? Dont really like shoulder meat?

Just curious, is the velocity you stated estimated from data or chronographed? It seems low for that load.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Trophy hunter? Isn't everybody?? Oh don't tell me, I'm one of those evil guys that just hunts for the fun and challenge of it and don't use the "oh, I feed my family" justification. In my book any excuse to hunt is a good one, So tell me, why then do you use Barnes and Partitions and not Sierras? No bubble busted here, there's room in this world for the foolharfy also. jorge

No Jorge, everybody is not a trophy hunter. Any excuse to hunt IS a good one.
Like you, and many hunters, I hunt for the fun and challenge also.
My family does eat what big game meat I shoot, but my family eats whether I hunt or not.

One thing that I would NOT worry about is:

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
…when a 1K trophy fee hangs in the balance.

I use Sierra’s for coyotes, varmints and deer sized game, depending on the cartridge I am loading, .223, 30-30, 300SAV, and some 30-’06 loads. For my 270, 30-’06 and .338 I use NP’s and TSX’s.

Yes jorge, there is room for the foolharfy.
Can you say spell-check?

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Trophy hunter? Isn't everybody?? Oh don't tell me, I'm one of those evil guys that just hunts for the fun and challenge of it and don't use the "oh, I feed my family" justification. In my book any excuse to hunt is a good one, So tell me, why then do you use Barnes and Partitions and not Sierras? No bubble busted here, there's room in this world for the foolharfy also. jorge

I am a trophy hunter, AND a meat hunter! Why? Because my trophies are made of meat.

Don't you all just love threads like this? Here's my position on the topic:

I do not use Sierra bullets anymore because I loaded up some for a friend that I went to college with. We hunted together in Missouri every season for years. He bought some Sierra 165 HPBT (non-match grade) bullets for his 30.06 and I tuned a very accurate load for him.

4 other hunters including myself witnessed Brian put a bullet right dead center in the kill zone of a 6 point buck at no more than 125 yards. We saw the hair fly, the buck jump in the air, and run off. It looked like a fantastic hit.

We never found that deer and we tracked it over 300 yards.

I've personally seen matchkings perform better at closer distances from the same rifle (a different mutual friend of ours owned it before Brian).

However, this one episode was all it took for me to never stuff another Sierra in a case mouth and I've never lost a wink of sleep over it. If I ever had a ballistic tip perform the same, I'd treat it the same way too.

It only takes once for me, and that is one time too many. I am a hunter that must have 200% confidence in my equipment. That is why if you were to look at my bullet stash, you'd see:

Barnes TSX
Partitions
Swift
Hornady Interlokt

I suppose I could fork out some cash and try the Northforks, Woodleighs, or some other higher dollar bullet that is MORE accurate than some of the 1/4" groups I sometimes get at 100 yards but I would be trying these other pills "for fun." Because, for the game I hunt, they are certainly not "necessary."

I don't think there's a mammal on my hit list that a TSX or partition cannot handle.

This is just my opinion, obviously.

Wild Boar is correct.
The bullet failed. Period.
How many of those "Where did the bullet fail since the animal is dead" philosophers realize that a roe deer goes around 50 lbs ? Still think the bullet did not fail?

I do not use Sierra bullets anymore because I loaded up some for a friend that I went to college with. We hunted together in Missouri every season for years. He bought some Sierra 165 HPBT (non-match grade) bullets for his 30.06 and I tuned a very accurate load for him.

4 other hunters including myself witnessed Brian put a bullet right dead center in the kill zone of a 6 point buck at no more than 125 yards. We saw the hair fly, the buck jump in the air, and run off. It looked like a fantastic hit.

We never found that deer and we tracked it over 300 yards

Are you listening, Flippy?
Oh, and one final thing: hard and thin are completely separate, and one should not confuse one with the other. If it is too hard, it won't work harden when it starts to peel back... Enough said. Another problem with the core-puking Sierras.


For my 270, 30-’06 and .338 I use NP’s and TSX’s.

Just fess up. You are on a slippery slope, and you hate to admit you are wrong... Even YOU admit to not shooting Sierras...

Did the bullet really fail, or was it being used in an environment that was OUTSIDE of its parameters?

I think the latter, so if the animal was taken, then it can not be called a failure... it just seems a bullet more appropriate to its parameters and the game should be considered....

I am not knocking the choice as it got the job done, but I am suggesting a better alternative might be consider, that would involve less risks of loosing the animal....

cheers
seafire

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
My conclusion is the same as it ever was, soft fast expanding bullets, especially from Magnum class rifles on shoulder shots are a bad mix.

You matched the bullet to the game, but YOU failed to match it with the chambering and with your shot placement. Why would you shoulder shoot a little deer like that anyway? Dont really like shoulder meat?

Just curious, is the velocity you stated estimated from data or chronographed? It seems low for that load.

As I said before, I'm not a first class sniper and the deer was slowly walking toward the bush; I took advantage of an instant of stop; 15/20 more seconds and it was gone

V/0 has been mesured with my Oheler 35; I didn't load higher since 72 g.(not 71 as I said before) of Vith. 160 give superb accuracy. Of course V/195 has been estimated with Loadbase 1.0 software

I usually stay out of these debates as I find them more amusing than informative, but I will interject a few opinions from personal experience. If (there's that word again Flippy) this bullet failed, then I will admit that I have used several different brands of bullets that have failed and still left me eating venison.

1. Early 165 grain NBT in 308 that bored straight through the 180# doe and she lived just long enough to dive in the bottom of the nearest creek. 50 yards, 2600 fps. NBTs fail.

2. Winchester Failsafe 180, again 308 2500 fps. Again, bored straight through. Probably outside the design specs for the bullet, too slow. Finished the doe at 100 yards with a friend's 25-06. Failsafes fail.

3. Remington 165 Corelokt, again 308, 2650 fps. Full frontal shot at 150 yards. Hit the deer so hard it raised up and fell over backwards into the creek. Man, I hate creeks by now. Got up 5 minutes later and ran off. Never found that one. Corelokts fail.

4. Nosler 125 Partition out of my 264 Win Mag, 302 yards 3200 fps. Great 12 point buck hanging in my living room. Found where the bullet entered the deer, but never found out where it exited because it didn't. Butcher looked as well, no exit. Under the definition we are using, bullet failed. (You know the old COULD have been an Eland in Florida on Tuesday comments) Partitions fail.

5. Nosler 120 BT from my 6.5-06AI at 3000fps and 75 yards. Perfect lung shot. Made goo out of the insides. Never exited and was never found. BT failure.

6. Nosler 120 BT same 6.5-06AI at 3000fps 250 yards. Shot this small buck and it hit the groung so fast that dust flew. Watched for 10 minutes while I finished fixing the fence. Got the tractor and when I got to where it was just a minut before, it was gone. BT failure. There may be something to this BT failure thing.

With all of that, there is still not enough personal evidence to eliminate any bullet because of a SINGLE circumstance. I still use them all along with a host fo others including the 165 Sierra HPBT Gameking, Hornady 129 6.5, 180 Bronze Point 30-06, 140 Barnes X 6.5 and others that have never failed. I am of the opinion that given the right set of circumstances and definition of failure, which there are too many to count, they will all fail. Hunt with the ones that make you the most comfortable and go on. Kind of like rifles, Echols or not. (I just had to throw that one in )

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:

...You matched the bullet to the game, but YOU failed to match it with the chambering ....

I don't feel to have failed to match the bullet to the chambering, since I chose a tougher-than-usual Sierra bullet, and the cartridge was intended to shoot a small deer, whose weight was 19 kg (42 pounds) gutted; furthermore V/0 was not high, as you stated.

I have used the Sierra GameKings with great success and wouldn't hesitate to use them again!

Now that the flames are headed my way, let me also point out that I agree with Wstrnhuntr that the bullet was a fine choice. The rifle it came out of may be more to blame than any other factor. The barrel may be rough. There are a host of reasons why this might have happened. It is surprizing to me that this was the result because I've not had anything like this happen. I've shot them (Sierras) through Mulies with a 7mm RM at just over a hundred yards and that was with 140gr bullets loaded to the hilt.

On smaller animals up to deer these bullets work fine. When used at standard velocities and placed properly they will work. There are other bullets I recommend for Elk, Moose,ect. and IMO the Barnes, Nosler Partition, and Woodleigh Weldcore are about as perfect as can be had. They are a little to tough for deer I think, as they expand slower unless placed into the shoulder.

Placement is everything. Nate

I am listening, ARE YOU READING?

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
Just fess up. You are on a slippery slope, and you hate to admit you are wrong... Even YOU admit to not shooting Sierras...

If you read my post I ADMIT to using them in SOME cartridges for SOME game.

Doubless, here is MY ENTIRE QUOTE, not your specially edited version:

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:
I use Sierra’s for coyotes, varmints and deer sized game, depending on the cartridge I am loading, .223, 30-30, 300SAV, and some 30-’06 loads.
For my 270, 30-’06 and .338 I use NP’s and TSX’s.

Doubless, READ THE POSTS.
You should change your name to DOUBTFULL.

I used to use them for everything and I reloaded for many other people also. I did not quit using Sierra’s in everything because of failures, but I finally found a premium bullet that was nearly as accurate, Barnes TSX. The NP’s are fairly accurate, but they are not consistently accurate, lot to lot in my experience.

I never lost an animal due to a failure of a Sierra bullet, but, and it’s a BIG but, I do not push them past their design threshold either.

That brings me to:

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Did the bullet really fail, or was it being used in an environment that was OUTSIDE of its parameters?

I think the latter, so if the animal was taken, then it can not be called a failure... it just seems a bullet more appropriate to its parameters and the game should be considered....

I am not knocking the choice as it got the job done, but I am suggesting a better alternative might be consider, that would involve less risks of loosing the animal....

cheers
seafire

You sir are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
I went to my Sierra reloading book and it lists the 165g BTHP bullet with a maximum BC at 2700 fps MV. I would not push this bullet much past that, and this bullet works VERY well in my Model 99 300SAV.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
I usually stay out of these debates as I find them more amusing than informative, but I will interject a few opinions from personal experience. If (there's that word again Flippy) this bullet failed, then I will admit that I have used several different brands of bullets that have failed and still left me eating venison.

…With all of that, there is still not enough personal evidence to eliminate any bullet because of a SINGLE circumstance. I still use them all along with a host of others including the 165 Sierra HPBT Gameking, Hornady 129 6.5, 180 Bronze Point 30-06, 140 Barnes X 6.5 and others that have never failed. I am of the opinion that given the right set of circumstances and definition of failure, which there are too many to count, they will all fail. Hunt with the ones that make you the most comfortable and go on. Kind of like rifles, Echols or not. (I just had to throw that one in )

Yep.

Wildboar,

I didn't read all of the above posts, so I may just be duplicating info.

I can't speak for other calibers, but I've had nothing but spotty performance w/ this bullet in a 308win on whitetail deer. I've culled deer on an annual basis since around 1994. For a couple of years I used an as issue M40 sniper rifle. I used an identical handload to the standard 168matchking round but w/ the 165gameking bullet. I took quite a few medium to large deer w/ this combo at distances from point blank out to approx. 300yds. All were killed, but much meat was destroyed at close range and many traveled great distances w/ vitals hit before expiring on quite a few of the longer shots.

I had several not open on these long shots and the majority would completely come apart on shots inside 50yds. One of the worst that I recorded was shot slightly 1/4 towards, behind the left shoulder, level w/ the horizon. If the bullet went straight thru, it would have exited the right side ribs in the rear vitals area. Instead, the jacket separated from the lead and made a right hand turn. The jacket ran the left side of the deer opening it up like a zipper w/ the intact and undamaged entrails falling out the opening. This jacket came to rest in the left rear ham (jacket was all intact but jagged). The lead core disintegrated into small chunks and was scattered from the right front shoulder all the way to the right rear ham. The heart and lungs were intact but for small holes, rips and tears. The only bone this bullet hit upon striking the deer was a rib!

This was the last time I used that bullet for hunting.

Gary