OK, so I had a few drink at the local SCI Dinner & ended up with a Coues Deer hunt with Rincon Outfitters.
So anyone ever hunt Coues Deer (I've never seen one) or hunted with Rincon Outfitters? I spoke to the owner & he seems like a good guy that knowns what he's doing but just wanted to check & see if anyone had more info for me?

Anything I need know about hunting Coues Deer (aka Grey Ghost)? I'll be hunting SE AZ, witrh a rifle, so what season do I want to hunt (I'm thinking late)? What will the weather be like? Any tips?

Thanks Guys!

Tony Mandille posts here, he can help you out with particulars I'm sure.
Good luck!

Your in good hands!
Be in good shape, and ready to hunt hard.
The late season is the best, but tough to draw.

I think the Rincon guys were 22 for 22 last year on the early hunts.

Pm me for more details

Tony Wrote a Book on Them . Try a Web site called WWW. CouesWhiteTail .com , all about Coues. Tony's on there too.
I hunted Chihuahua and Killed a 94 3/8 ths
Coues. CouesWhileTail has some good sponsors
on there site for hunts I think my next one will be in Durango Mexico.

You rang????

The suggestion to spend some time at WWW.CouesWhiteTail.com is a good one. Lots of dedicated Coues deer hunters there.

I'm not familiar with Rincon Outfitters, so I can't provide any info on them. They do have a web site in case you haven't already found it.

I guess you know you'll need to draw a permit first, right?

Tony,

Good posting!
I guess I am one of the guys who never dreamed I'd need to draw to hunt Coues Deer.
I learned something.

Thank you,

Don

DMB,

To clarify a bit, I was speaking mostly of the gun hunts IN AZ. Yet even though you will need to have a special permit, there are often many leftover 1st come/1st served after the drawing. Granted, some are for the least popular hunts/units, but it is possible to get one without drawing. In fact, my son and I did just that last year.

We are in the process of building BPs for the N. Kaibab. So I only fill in the 1st and 2nd choice for Kaibab hunts. Then after the draw, we appplied for the leftovers for the late Nov. hunt in 36B and managed to retain our BPs.

Also, the 10% rule for NRs does not apply for the leftovers.

The toughest draws are the Dec. hunts, especially for NRs, but the hunts in Oct. and Nov. can also be productive for those who do their homework and put in the time. And many of these earlier hunts are 100% draw if listed as a 1st choice -- at least for residents.

Thanks guys & Tony I'll be ordering the book today. The outfitter said the draw results were very good, all his hunters were able to draw tags last year.
I'm going to atleast try & if I do not draw I'll try again next year.

Sounds like Rincon has all the bases loaded!

If you've never hunted the higher desert, you're in for a treat. Get in shape.

Good luck.

To order, just click on the link under the book, then scroll down the page to go to Paypal where you can use your CC. The book will go in the mail the day after I get notice of payment, which happens in minutes.

Tony,

Thanks for the clarification.
Sixty years ago, Jack O'Connor wrote about hunting in the Kaibab, and you comments brought back some good memories for me.

Take care,

Don

I have a question: What is the correct pronunciation of "Coues"? Is it KUZ (strong U) or COWS or something else? Thanks - RR

The first few paragraphs of Chapter I in the book.

THE DEER

“Most intelligent game animal I have ever run into on this side of the world is the pint-size Coues deer, also known as the Arizona whitetail. He's a little guy, about half as large as the mule deer he often ranges with. He is, on the other hand, about five times as smart as the mule deer. The little rascal makes up his mind quickly and gambles coolly with his life. When he knows he can no longer stay concealed, he comes out like a quail, depending on his sudden and noisy appearance to befuddle the hunter.”

PORTRAIT OF THE ARIZONA COUES DEER
Jack O’Connor


Without question, Jack O’Connor’s articles about Coues deer have had a far-reaching effect on their popularity among hunters. The one-time gun editor for Outdoor Life magazine loved the little deer and used his beloved .270 to tag more than a few of them. Today, O’Connor is regularly quoted or paraphrased in most articles about Coues deer to a point where his descriptive words and opinions have become near clichés. Regardless, everything O’Connor ever wrote about the Coues is still quite valid.

Although some call them “coos” deer, and others more properly call them “cows” deer, the diminutive deer, taxonomically known as Odocoileus virginianus couesi, ranks as one of North America’s most elusive and savy game animals. Just ask any hunter who has been outsmarted by a wily ol’ buck.

The Coues deer inherited the couesi part of its Latin name from Lieutenant Elliot Coues, a Union Army quartermaster and naturalist who spent time in Arizona during the 1860s and supposedly collected and studied the Coues deer. Some accounts of his actual travels in Arizona seem to suggest he never even saw one of the deer that bears his name, however. According to historical records, another naturalist of the time, Edgar A. Mearns, assigned Coues’ name to the little deer’s taxonomical listing.

DMB,

I started hunting the North Kaibab in the early 1960s with my granddad who was already in his 70s. Killed my first mule deer buck there in 1963.

Back then, permits were fairly easy to get but that pretty much ended in the late 1970s/early 1980s. I think the last permit I had was 1984 or so. So I finally got smart and stopped putting a whitetail hunt as the latter choices in order to build BPs. We're now up to 9 points.

This is my best Kaibab buck. The doe is one my son killed on the NK when he was 12. He just turned 47. It was his 2nd BG critter. He had killed a pronghorn a couple months earlier.

We hunt the Coues, Coues/Whitetail and Mulie in Sonora, so no draw required. My gf's father has a ranch in Chihuahua. She says Deer are all over it. I'm going to find out
LDK

Yup, the Coues hunting in Mexico can be quite good on the right ranch, and guided hunts there cost just only a bit more than they do in AZ. But the other costs such as air fare into Mexico if necessary and the gun permits can add several hundred dollars.

I hunted in Sonora several years ago and killed a buck with a 16.5" spread. There's a photo of it on the back cover of the book.

Are those whitetails on that ranch in Chihuahua actually Coues deer???

Hello sdeshazo
Yes I hunt Coues Deer since about 20 years ago. I had learned, the hard way, what you need to hunt those little phantoms:
1.- Desire and passion to get a trophy.
2.- Legs and lungs
3.- An accurate rifle and straight shooting to long distances
4.- The best optics. No, not the best you can buy but the best optics.
By the way Outdoor Writer, there are Coues Deer all over the Western Sierra Madres. In Mexico, there are Coues Deer Outfitters on Sonora, Chihuahua, Durango, Nayarit, Aguascalientes and even in Jalisco.
I had used .270 Weatherby, 6.5x68 and 6x62 Frères to hunt coues deer. In my opinion, you need a cartridge that gives you around 2800 fps and 2,500 f-lbs at 300 yards.
Here are a few of my coues and desert mule deer:

MmmmmSomething wrong with the photos. Here I am again:

And a few more:

quote:

Originally posted by Kechutti:

By the way Outdoor Writer, there are Coues Deer all over the Western Sierra Madres. In Mexico, there are Coues Deer Outfitters on Sonora, Chihuahua, Durango, Nayarit, Aguascalientes and even in Jalisco.

Yeah, I know there are Coues in the western mts. of Chihuahua

BUT...this is what he typed..."My gf's father has a ranch in Chihuahua. She says Deer are all over it. I'm going to find out."

Note there is NO mention of where the ranch is located in Chihuahua or what type of deer are supposedly running around. Since Chihuahua and much of the country to the east of the mts. harbors the Texas subspecies of whitetail it was a legit question.

As for the other Mexican states, there might be some PURE Coues in the mts, but the farther south and west, especially in Sinaloa, the more mixed they are with several other subspecies, such as:

Odocoileus virginianus acapulcensis (southern Mexico)
Odocoileus virginianus mexicanus (central Mexico)
Odocoileus virginianus miquihuanensis (central Mexico)
Odocoileus virginianus oaxacensis (southern Mexico)
Odocoileus virginianus sinaloae (mid-western Mexico)
Odocoileus virginianus toltecus (southern Mexico}

This is likely why B&C and P&Y do not recognize any of the heads from the states farther south than Sonora. From what I understand, though, B&C is currently working on a genetic test where that might allow them to extend the range somewhat.

In contrast, I believe SCI allows almost all of them from those states, which doesn't surprise me.

I just found this map. I hope could be usefull



Regards

Thanks. That one is basically the same as this one, which I've had for quite awhile..



Here's info on what B&C is doing so they might possibly recognize the whitetails from the other Mexican states.

******

The other study will strive to develop a diagnostic nuclear genetic marker to differentiate Coues white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus couesi) from non-Coues white-tailed deer (O. v. spp). Work on these studies commenced in 2007. See below for information on the projects and researchers.

The second problem is the need for a diagnostic test to differentiate Coues white-tailed deer from other white-tailed deer. This test would allow the Records Program to determine whether or not a white-tailed deer from an unknown location is a Coues whitetail. As well, this work will fulfill important needs in deer conservation and management by clarifying genetic relationships that show true relatedness and differentiation among subspecies, thus helping to define useful and science-based conservation units. Laboratory work on this problem must wait until additional samples are collected, primarily in Mexico, to fill gaps in the collection for Coues and white-tailed deer. Supported by a 2007 grant from our partner organization, the Camp Fire Conservation Fund, Inc., Dr. Carlos Alcalá-Galván will work with hunters and authorities in Mexico to fill those gaps. A researcher at INIFAP-Mexico, and adjunct professor at the University of Arizona, Dr. Alcalá-Galván brings to this task a solid understanding of sampling protocols; excellent contacts in Mexico; knowledge of U.S. requirements for the importation of biological materials; and, a record of experience and success in similar endeavors.

Working with biologists, hunters, and outfitters in Mexico, Dr. Alcalá-Galván accumulated 122 samples from the 2006–2007 hunting season, including 14 from mule deer and 108 from whitetail deer. Two samples may represent mule deer –whitetail hybrids. A supplemental grant was received from the Pope & Young Club to assist in these collection efforts.

hey Kechutti
thats a smokin good mulie on the left
looks like 34" x 202-204,doesn't look like a sonora deer judging by the cape coloration
could you give us alittle more info?

To answer the question posted in the main topic of this thread, "Anyone hunt coues?", Yes.. I hunt coues! One of my favorite things to hunt here in the States! Chase them every year, either here in AZ, or in Mexico.

Kechutti
You have some very nice bucks there!!

Tony,

I received the book yesterday, looks to be worth it's weight in gold. Thank you!

I sent my app in got my dates set (11/27-12/2), now I just need to the draw the tag, get to the range & in shape.

Hey ravenr
Just because you ask for it, here are the photos of that Mule Deer. It was taken in Northeast Sonora, very close to the U.S Border. That day I was using a Blaser R93 in 6x62 Frères.
By the way, the 2004-2005 Sonora Hunting season was, to my wife and to me, one to be remembered.
My wife took a very nice one, too.






Regards

My lord, those are some fantastic muleys!!

Kechutti,

Super bucks!

Sorry for these multiple posts. My connection was screwing up.

Shawn,

Glad the book arrived safely. Enjoy.

What unit? That's the season we hunted in 36B last year.

nice work!!! and thanks
looks like lady luck kicked your ass
bet ya don't mind thou

Ketchutti,



Stunning...and the deer is very nice as well.

Perry

Those are some fine, fine bucks everyone. We hunt Sonora and have the Coues, Coues/Whitetail cross plus those pesky Sonoran Mulies. Now if I could just cough up the dough for those Desert Sheep
LDK

Be very very careful, you will hunt Couse once and become addicted as I have. I get more dissappointed for not drawing that tag then I do for Elk.

There are also good coues deer in the Gila wilderness in New Mexico. I stuck a 8 point that scored almost 100 B&C about 25 years ago there while elk hunting in September. This was before anyone was famaliar with the Gila. It was easy to draw a tag. They never had enough people to take all the elk tags. Those were the good old days!
I would see 3-4 nice bucks a day within bow range. I never really knew what they were at the time. I had my sights on a 360+ Bull. I finally stuck one and albeit a petite animal it probably is the highest scoring trophy I posses.
Back then there were a ton of big muleys in there as well. If I had a rifle; OH BOY!

EZ