The recent issue of Petersens Hunting has Mr.Bodington and Mr.Hornady hunting some exotic creature of the high slopes in some foreign land.(using Hornady bullets of course!)
It states that the guides position hunters on a slope, and then drive the animals up for the hunter so a shot can be taken. I just dont see that as a challenging/rewarding hunt.
If your in that much of a need to bag the thing, may as well just charter a Heli, chase it down to exhaustion and shoot the thing from above.

Interesting comment. In the eastern US driving deer is a very commom way of "hunting". 20-25 hunters gather and surround an area and the drivers walk thru and the area is flanked on both sides with of course flankers and the balance of the hunters head or form a line at the end of the designated area to shoot the deer as the come forward try to escape and any that try to break back thru are to be shot by the drivers. Pheasants are hunted much the qame way in the mid-west along with the aid of dogs. There are many other examples of various methods of assisting the hunter in their quest of game.

I don't care to hunt deer drives but I have no problem with them. Making a small push of a cover is different story and it can be very effective.

I don't want to start a pissing contest, but what is the difference between a drive and a push except the # of people involved. I also don't care to drive but here in the east it is a quick way to get some meat. I have long past the stage where I judge other peoples method of hunting. I hunt the way I like and the way my physicial condition allows. My views were very different 40+ years ago, eh.

DOJ-

Doesn't the Game Commission have a limit on the number of deer hunters that can "hunt" together?

I remember something from way back and it seemed to be less than 20-25. I could be wrong, because for years my only "driving" has been a slow one man (me ) still hunt, trying to gently move deer past my dad.

I haven't been in on a big organized drive in years. We mainly used to do them in the late (after Xmas) muzzleloader season. Moved lots of deer, and made lots of smoke, and killed few deer for the effort (and powder!) expended, but we sure had fun! It was a good way to end the season with friends.

Like you say, not a peeing contest, it's just that when I read your post it triggered a thought from back then.

As to the original question, I agree.

Hunting an exotic, in some far off land, that is presumably a "trophy", is a lot different than meat hunting whitetails.

I won't make a penny off of a single deer that I shoot, but Boddington is doing this to sell articles.

I look at that as a different "category" than filling my freezer with a deer that nobody will ever see or care about.

It's another sponsored hunt that demands a kill for pictures and a sellable story.

And no, it's not jealousy.

We still do the big drives here in PA and I really enjoy them. Generally there are twenty to twenty-five of us. We post a roster at camp as per PA Game Commission rules. The areas are usually about a mile or more long, and something less than that wide (usually a mountain side or a valley). We place the Cardiac Kids (our older members as standers), at escape trails and at the ends of the drive. We do both noisy and quiet drives. Since we use rifles, you must be careful where you shoot. Drivers generally kill most of the deer. The terrain is extremely rough and covered with laurel that is seven or eight feet tall. Shots are generally less than 25 yards at moving deer. Our new antler restrictions make it harder for the drivers, but we are still successful. It is a lot of fun. This is certainly more entertaining than enduring a week of sitting in a tree stand in snow, sleet, rain and cold. Comradery and stories and a few deer. It's fun, and hunting should be fun! I intend to try southern style dogging deer this fall for the same reason. I hesitate to condemn what I haven't tried.

"Drives" are also a very common and traditional method of hunting in Germany and other parts of Europe.

We area a blessed nation with huge hunting oppertunities and legal methods. Each of us can decide on and use the legal method that most appeals to each of us. Lets not degrade those who choose alternate legal methods.

Not to pile on WJ but do you hunt anything over bait, shoot from a vehicel, etc. We all have our personal limits/ethics when it comes to hunting.
It's not at all uncommon to hunt elusive animals in heavy cover by positioning a hunter at a good vantage point & then sending guys into the thick stuff to push the animal to leave cover. Wolves & coyotes hunt this way too.

Black Fly, I understand your enjoyment of time with fellow hunters, but driving isn't required. I pot or still hunted from my first year hunting (age12) until I was in my 20ies when members of my family joined a hunting club and I did the drive thing for a few years and found it not to be my cup of tea, just one mans opinion. I still hunt with a small group of guys and we hunt togeather but not by driving and we have a great time be it in Va early muzzle loading season or Pa rifle season.

It doesn't matter whether you are filling the freezer for your family or the larder of a family in the Mts of Asia or a village in Africa and you are talented enough to write about the adventure and sell same the hunt is still a hunt.

Doesn't bother me one bit. It's one way of hunting. In the east coast it's common to be on a hunting trip and organzie a drive.

It's not like the animals are cagged up and quite frankly if you like hunting on enclosed ranches, that's fine too. I don't care for it but if you do that's fine with me.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
Not to pile on WJ but do you hunt anything over bait, shoot from a vehicel, etc. We all have our personal limits/ethics when it comes to hunting.....

No I dont lay baits,will not hunt from a manmade blind, but I will use any exhisting natural cover.
yes I do shoot shoot from a vehicle when dealing with vermin/hogs on a crop, but I dont call that hunting or some great achievement. I can understand taking animals on a drive if for meat- consumption/survival.
I suppose Bodington could not print an article where he comes home without a "trophy".

As for taking leopard from a blind and over a laid bait ,I dont feel that strong a need to bag a cat, to warrant such techniques. I dont feel any lesser a hunter if i dont get the results someone else gets or expects, I dont see it as a race, competition, or obligation to get a certain result.
To be fair,I suppose I am not under the same pressure or obligation to feed a media machine. Not condeming the man,just not my style.

Would you want to read an article where he hasn't been sucessful? I have heard on videos where he wasn't sucessful or Oh my God he missed!

Doesn't bother me a bit. In fact it is sort of nice to not have the same old....sat for days...saw nothing but my XXXXXfancy custom made, article paid for, rifle.....finally got a shot....article. Something different is good sometimes. At least it isn't another "Kimber is so great" article disguised as a hunt, Hornady instead is fine with me.

Seems to me that I have never read a story buy any ohter writer where he/she failed to get his/her animal but then that kind of story would be easy to forget. I also seem to remember a story Craig wrote a couple of years ago on a hunt to the North Slope of Alaska where he didn't get the griz he was after. He is also one writer that will tell you when he flubs a shot.

As far as a driven hunt goes, it is not my cup of tea and may not be his. I have done it and now avoid it if possible. How do you know if it is your cup of tea if you don't experience it? This is especiallly important for a writer IMO. We will see in the future how he feels about driven hunts.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Would you want to read an article where he hasn't been sucessful? ...

Just read an interesting Bear Hunting story in our June NRA American Hunter starting on page 40 by J. Scott Olmsted. He was trying out the brand new 24" Stainless & Gray Laminated Marlin XLR 444 with the also new Hornady LEVERevolution ammo.

On the 11th day of the Hunt, he and his Guide came upon a Taker Bear at 50yds. Apparently his first shot was with the Bear just watching them(at 50yds) and the second shot was at the Bear leaving from 50yds away.

No blood found and apparently no dead Bear found either.
---

Not sure either Hornady or Marlin will be flattered about the story, but I do not believe it really casts a negative light on either manufacturer. Does say a good bit about Mr. Olmsted's familiarity with the rifle though.
---

As usual, if Game is being Hunted by "Legal Methods", I'm all for it - whatever the Method might be.

Hadn't read that article but will. Thanks.

WJ, it seems we are pretty much of the same hunting mold but I don't slam guys for doing it another way, especially if it's the normal culture for that country/area. I see the TExas guys hunting whitetail from a box stand over a feeder & I personaly won't do it but then I don't live in Texas.

What some people fail to understand is that hunters in other parts of the world use different methods than you.

Did anyone ever stop and think "Why?"

What is acceptable and common in one place may not be common, rational, acceptable, possible, legal, ethical, or otherwise in another part of the world or even within the same country!

Laws, ethics, and methods for hunting are going to differ from one area to the next.

Not all Texans "sit in box blinds and shoot at deer over feeders." It is the local and acceptable method in the brush country and in the hill country. Given a choice, I am sure that the majority of these hunters who sit in blinds and hunt over feeders would rather spot and stalk, or hunt deer the way Elk or Sheep are hunted.

So why do "Texans" hunt this way? Because you cant find the little bastards otherwise! Spot and stalk is not an option in this type of terrain. Neither is walking. Sitting is the only reasonably successful method of hunting in these areas. Baiting increases the chance of success.

We would not consider sitting in a box blind and hunting Mule Deer or Aoudad in the Davis Mountains of Texas. Or even baiting these animals.

Why? Because it is not a reasonable way to hunt these animals. The terrain, brush and hunting methods are different because the situation and terrain are different.

Why do they bait for Leopard in Africa?

Because you can't find a Leopard otherwise. Incidental Leopard sightings are rare. I have only seen Leopard three times. Once was in a game park where they have no fear of humans. One was while hunting Leopard, I shot this one (over bait with a spotlight) and the other time was a female and her cubs running across the road at night.

Would I rather have shot the Leopard in the daylight? You bet! I would have liked it had I tracked it and shot it in daylight, or even over bait in daylight. But that was not a reasonably successful method for hunting in the area I was in.

We are sometimes a bit too quick to judge a group of hunters for their methods before we have analyzed why they hunt the way they do.

It is a very closed minded approach to criticize other hunters, in other parts of the world, who hunt differently than you when they are hunting according to their local laws, traditions, and ethics.

If it goes against your ethics, don't do it, but hold your criticism of their locally acceptable methods of hunting until you step foot in their woods, on their hills or on their mountains. Consider that maybe you don't know the full story of why they hunt the way they do.

BTW, my rant was not aimed at anyone! Just expressing an opinion and maybe opening some eyes.

quote:

Because you can't find a Leopard otherwise.

I thought you could hunt mr. spots with dogs like they do cougars out west?

I read that article in American Hunter as well and really enjoyed it. I wish more mags would print stories in which the game is not bagged; after all, it happens to everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

Because you can't find a Leopard otherwise.

I thought you could hunt mr. spots with dogs like they do cougars out west?

Yes, you can, very successfully. But that is just another "hot spot" for the closed minded. They think dogs are "unethical"

Wonder if they thinik using Bushman trackers is unethical too!

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
It is a very closed minded approach to criticize other hunters, in other parts of the world, who hunt differently than you when they are hunting according to their local laws, traditions, and ethics.

+1.

Humans did poorly as a species until we learned to hunt in packs. For me, the richest part of hunting is learning how the locals hunt and why they do it that way - there's always a good reason.


Okie John

Just for the record, I do a lot of stillhunting, some stump sitting, and a little tree hugging. I agree with the ideas that we need to try different approaches to the sport. I even tried shooting off the vehicle in Africa. Interestingly, I missed a steenbok twice at about twentyfive yards. But then I missed deer from a tree stand, too. None of those would make interesting reading for a national magazine, but they are experiences to remember. Don't think, I'll shoot off a vehicle again, it wasn't much fun! And I understand why some folks don't like to do deer drives. But these topics sure make lively discussions.

Humans by nature are "pack hunters" not solitary hunters. I don't see a problem with several hunters working together to increase the odds of success.

There are groups up in NW MN that take every bodies tag ang put them in a bag, Party hunting is legal, and just tag deer as they are killed. You may never even fire a shot for your deer.. That type of deer driving is not for me.

quote:

The recent issue of Petersens Hunting has Mr.Bodington and Mr.Hornady hunting some exotic creature of the high slopes in some foreign land.(using Hornady bullets of course!)
It states that the guides position hunters on a slope, and then drive the animals up for the hunter so a shot can be taken. I just dont see that as a challenging/rewarding hunt.
If your in that much of a need to bag the thing, may as well just charter a Heli, chase it down to exhaustion and shoot the thing from above.

They must print different material for reading in Canada. It sure doesn't seem Boddington killed his Tur on any drive, and only mentions a drive in a sidebar that may have put the Rams the next day when Steve Hornady shot his Tur.

I'd like to know if you have ever hunted in the Mountains?

Chuck

Wendell has a good point. Local conditions are indeed different from place to place. I can't conceive of a drive for elk, but here in PA where baiting and hounds are illegal there is no other practical method of bear hunting. Likewise after the first day of deer season in parts of PA all the deer are buried in the laurel on steep hillsides and won't come out. This isn't the best method for trophy hunting, but sometimes there is no other way.

As long as it is legal and customary in the area, go for it.

I may or may not choose to hunt that way (or at all), but others are free to do as they wish.

If you take your regional hunting practices, prejuduces and ethics to another location and try to apply them there you probably will make a fool of yourself. When I first went to Africa I had opportunities to shoot 2-3 of the smaller antelope which I didn't take advantage of because a big bad NA hunter wouldn't shoot a dinky thing like a grybok, klipspringer or duiker. What a dumb ass! Now I know why the PH looked at me funny when I passed on these guys. He knew I would kick my own butt later when I discovered how challenging these small animals can be.

As for hunting methods I think experiencing how others hunt makes the trip just that much more interesting.

Mark

quote:

The recent issue of Petersens Hunting has Mr.Bodington and Mr.Hornady hunting some exotic creature of the high slopes in some foreign land.(using Hornady bullets of course!)
It states that the guides position hunters on a slope, and then drive the animals up for the hunter so a shot can be taken. I just dont see that as a challenging/rewarding hunt.
If your in that much of a need to bag the thing, may as well just charter a Heli, chase it down to exhaustion and shoot the thing from above.

Another "I hate Boddington thread"...aren't we past this BS yet?

I didn't read the story but I must say at least he was honest when he wrote the story and didn't side step to be politicly correct. If it was a legal method I say RIGHT ON!!